PPL in Spain -Jerez ?

[sb3100kk]

Guys

Is there any view on the Fly-in-Spain school in Jerez.
I am considering doing my PPL there, any suggestions ?

Thanks

[olicana]

I finished my PPL there having been defeated by the uk weather a few years ago. (I did about 10 hours with them).

I found the experience very enjoyable, if taxing.

My instructor James was very good and had high standards. The examiner, Brian was a lovely chap and after getting over my initial nerves I actually enjoyed my skills test.

[codemonkey]

i was there in feb, it's a great setup, relaxed yet professional, highly recommened. only potential downside is the beautiful countryside and all the places to visit in that area, it could distract you from the flying!

[sb3100kk]

Awesome, love it guys.

I do plan to the intensive course there and want to finish it as quickly as possible, appreciate the feedback.


Thanks

[Pull what]

Hello-have they got a website? Be interested to know how much they charge?

[sb3100kk]

The costs for the PPL, based on the 45h of required flight training will be about 8500.-€
including the written and the skill test.

PRICES - Details:

Cessna 172 = 129.-€/h
Instructor = 40.-€/h
Landing fees = 5-11.-€/ ldg
Written test fee = 50.-€/per test
Skill test fee = 200.-€
Radio Telephony
Practical Exam = 200.-€

Club Membership (12 months)
including Airside Security Pass = 65.-€

ADD ONS & UPGRADES
Upgrade to Piper PA28 for an extra 20.-€/h
Any additional ground school required = 30.-€/h

[minimad]

Has any one done any commercial stuff there I'm thinking of doing my cpl/ ir there after my ppl

[AndyS10]

I’ve just returned from a wasted trip care of these guys which should be of interest to those thinking of using FIS. I had booked an intensive program of hours building directly with Hans the owner of FIS two weeks before, but on arrival it became clear that the aircraft had been overbooked and that it would not be possible to make my planned target. I raised this with the office manager and Hans, who both shrugged it off and assured me it would be no problem. After 4 days I had achieved only 10 hours (waiting for instructors, aircraft in for 100 hr check, other customers booked onto the aircraft) and decided to go home as it was no longer possible to get close to the hours I had intended to do. As I work for myself, I don’t have the option of changing my leave dates and every day costs me income. Up until this point I was just irritated at having my time wasted, but when I came to leave Hans had increased the hourly rate I was charged at, above the rate we had agreed and he proposed to hold onto the balance of my account (in my own interests of course) so that I could return and fly the balance of the hours. A heated discussion followed where Hans refused to take any responsibility for overbooking the aircraft, refused to compromise in any way and blamed the lack of hours solely on me. In essence he had expected two pilots to achieve 10 hours per day every day for five days which speaks for itself (note that there is no VFR night flying in Spain). It took 3 weeks to get the balance of my money back and I will never give this organisation any money again. :mad:

I had no problem with any of the instructors there, or Claudio the office manager who were all friendly and competent, although I clearly got the impression from them that I was not the first unhappy customer in recent memory..... I have no reason to doubt that Brian the CAA examiner, is anything but a gentleman as previous posters have described him. However, if you search the threads here at pprune you will see a pattern where those customers who have some kind of a problem with FIS all point towards the owner.

FIS Jerez has a lot going for it for PPLs – there is plenty of open airspace, good weather and interesting places to visit. I would recommend that anyone planning a trip there budgets for the 3% credit card surcharge to pay as you go in order to minimise the cash up front and if there is a problem, do not expect the management to be reasonable or remotely care if you leave satisfied.

[LH2]

I’ve just returned from a wasted trip care of these guys

Well, I don't know your specifics, but I do know it usually takes two to tango, and I also know that one is much more likely to hear from those with negative things to say, whatever the cause, than those who have had good experiences.

Personally, I completed my PPL at FIS in 18 days, theory and all, and everyone was courteous (including Hans, which is a lot to say for a German :p) and professional. According to my logbook I flew 8:45 hours in the first four days, and 12:45 in the first week; I don't think it would have been very advisable to cram a lot of hours in the beginning anyway.

Point is, I still made it in under three weeks and importantly, without sacrificing standards, so not quite sure why you were flapping about your perceived lack of flying--then again, as I've said I don't know your personal circumstances. While I took the time I took because I though that was all that was needed and there was no point in fuc​king about for half a year if it could be done in less, I would have been perfectly happy anyway if it had turned out my assessment was wrong, or circumstances hadn't allowed that kind of pace.

I'm not saying that was your case, but if you happened to come across as an overdemanding "I'm the customer" type then I imagine they might be less inclined to help. They did not guarantee that you could do a so-called intensive PPL back then and I have no reason to believe they do now, although of course I'm sure they'll be happy for you to try if you wish.

I cannot vouch for them from recent experience, but I recognise they do offer a rather unique and attractive proposal: UK-quality training in Southern Spain-quality weather. You also have the bonus of flying from proper airports and in proper airspace. Certainly the 3000m of tarmac in Seville helped a lot with my first landings :) I'm kind of surprised there aren't more outfits like that in Europe.

[IO540]

Are these people any good for doing an FAA IR to JAA IR conversion?

Presumably, no need for aircraft conversion (screens). Can they do it in an N-reg?

[172driver]

AFAIK, they don't (although I think Brian is also a FAA CFI).

However in the same general area, Aerodynamics (http://www.aerodynamics.es/) in Malaga do these conversions on a regular basis.

[AndyS10]

They did not guarantee that you could do a so-called intensive PPL back then

LH2 – I did not go there to train for my PPL, I went to hours build. I had agreed with Hans that the aircraft would be available for me to do 25 hours in 5 days and it wasn’t available for anywhere near the necessary time, hence my comment that my time had been wasted.

[vanHorck]

Booked their PA28 for training for my wife, got it confirmed but it was not available so had to change for 172 instead.... not quite the same....

Their fleet of 172 was old and looked very tired.

Instructors were good and so was the examiner but the owner was a waste of time, trying to be opinionated about flight instruction without holding the necessary papers, more concerned about maximizing the rental income than caring about training.

I also read the good comments.
For strong minded people, well prepared on their theory who don't mind old planes and don't mind the risk of aircraft downtime it's a great place to finish their PPL, for others' don t bother.

[paulryan1990]

any recent experiences with flying in Spain?? its on my shortlist of schools

[custardpsc]

I've flown there, albeit a while back. Everything that has been said here so far all has the ring of truth. The comments about the planes, availability and owner all seem about right. On the other hand there are good points. The examiner, Brian, is great, very experienced and pragmatic. There is a nice air of informality but its a reasonable size airport. The airspace, procedure and destinations are all good learning curves. I needed an intensive few days of flying to get back up to speed after a long layoff and they got an instructor back from his cropspraying day job for me to give me the time and post-ppl experience I needed and I learnt a lot and enjoyed myself. Not so sure how it would work out as a place to do a ppl from scratch or to do hour building. If you are local rather than under trip based pressureit would work but probably not a place to do californian style hours building every day. Oh and they charge per landing even at home base.

[IO540]

What is the area like there, custardpsc?

FIS is one of my two options, currently, for doing the JAA IR outside the UK.

The other one is Egnatia in Greece (LGKV) which is a very pleasant area (Keramoti) to spend 2 weeks in. A lot of Spain is an absolute dump, as indeed is a lot of Greece, but at least the food is good :)

[custardpsc]

the area is mostly ok is the short answer ! if you like spain then Jerez is ok and its a short train ride to El Puerto de Santa Maria and or Cadiz. Jerez is a relatively small town and most of the entertainment is sherry-centric in one form or another so don't expect much. I like El Puerto, one of my favourite places in spain. If you have a car then thats where I'd stay, the increased choice of restaurants/seaside is worth the drive. If you are having to rely on taxis or public transport then Jerez is really the necessary option. During the middle of the afternoon don't expect a taxi from the terminal. The cars are there but the drivers aren't. HTH.

[LH2]

Can I ask some questions to get answers of if you dont mind.

Not to be an arse, but all your questions being of a factual and objective nature, they can be quickly and accurately answered in a three minute phone call to Hans, the owner, on +34 956 448 460. Or just visit their website (http://www.fly-in-spain.com/en/).

Re. accommodation, Hans used to have an apartment which might be available, else plenty of accommodation in Jerez (not during the horse fair though), or just rent a car (which at €35.- or so per day is hardly going to break the bank) and find a cheap, cheerful, and authentic place in one of the small villages along any of the roads going out of Jerez.

[custardpsc]

Hey IO540 - how did you get on with the IR - did you choose between FIS and Egnatia? I recently got let down by FIS (owner) quite badly and won't fly with them again, but also looking at JAA IR now for myself. Be interested to know how you got on and where you went/are thinking of going to.

[peterh337]

If you have a lot of patience, here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/jaa-ir/index.html) is the writeup I did :)

I did it all in the UK, not least because I could not find an FTO elsewhere which would take on my N-reg plane.

What did FIS do? Feel free to email if you prefer.

It's obvious that if you are going to go abroad for a week or two (IR conversion) or some weeks (ab initio 50/55hr IR) then you need to go to an outfit which is guaranteed to deliver the package. In the USA you can get this - if you avoid a few schools perhaps.

[Pitch+Power]

I recently did FAA to JAA IR conversion at FIS.
Allowed myself 3 weeks (hoping for a sneaky few days at the beach)
Was done including test in less than 2 weeks, and that was at a leisurely pace.

No problems. I enjoyed the flying there.

[chrisbl]

I did my FAA IR to JAA IR in September 2010 in regulation time at FIS, no problems.
In December 2011 I went back and did my Multi IR upgrade also in regulation time.

The only issue you may come across is Seville approach being difficult about the number of IR training sorties it allows at the same time. It just needs organisation and cooperation. Throwing ones toys out of the pram is not the way and you need to take a mature approach.

No matter, I still managed to get done what I wanted to to do with no extra costs. I could not fault the service or the team there.

There is some fantastic scenery to admire too.