Air Transat - Captain Pich'e Movie

[MAN2YKF]

The premier of the movie about TS 236 and Captain Pich'e is premiered next week in Montreal and released July 7th 2010.
Looks good, but unfortunatly it's in French for now.

Pichè The Movie (TS236) (http://airwayphotos.net/forum/showthread.php?539-Pich-The-Movie-(TS236)&p=3550)

[clunckdriver]

Drug smugler, totally incompetant pilot and they make a hero and a movie about him! I gues he is just following in the wake of the other heroic scew up, Pearson and the Gimli fiasco, next thing you know Koglan will be iceing as the cause! When will the media learn to get the facts before useing the word "hero?"

[MK34]

Are we gone a learn WHY the crossfeed valves were open?:eek:

[DHC6to8]

edited at the request of another

[MAN2YKF]

OK, i have met Captain Pich'e a back in 98 and he's a great guy.
Secondly if you don't know the all facts don't critisize!
Did you read all of the final report of the inquiry?
A factor of errors created by Airbus, AirTranst lead to Pilot area.
Regardless, what he did after the fact was astonishing.

Read his book, you might learn a little more about the man.
I am sure nearly everyone one of us has a dark secret from our past when we were much younger!

I find it amazing to read on these forums how much hatred there is to one another (Pilots), very sad and to be honest, pathetic.
I wonder if your attitudes you have on here reflect in the way you conduct yourself in the flight deck?

[clunckdriver]

Man2YKF, My wife and I spent a fair bit of our lives dealing with kids who had fallen victims to the **** that he was smugling in, not our kids but others less fortunate, {live on a farm way out of town, a good place to keep the pushers away} Most of these kids were from totally F---k up background,{often parents on the stuff} so dont give me any crap about Mr bloody Piche, he deserves to be locked up for life, or better still shot! When you find a kid hanging by a bloody rope thanks to assholes like him forgivning is not an option, hope I dont offend your middle class feel good world you live in but if you havent been there dont judge, I only hope that if you have kids they dont have their lives destroyed by assholes like him, if you do you will see it my way Im sure!

[J.O.]

I'm not prone to biblical quotations, but one seems appropriate here - "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone."

[Married a Canadian]

Clunck driver

Pearson and the Gimli fiasco

Just out of interest would you have preferred that Pearson and Pich'e had REALLY screwed up and not landed the planes so everyone died and then we can really talk about mistakes being compounded.

They made mistakes, they fixed the mistake by making sure everyone landed safely.

The accident reports make the criticisms required. What purpose does belittling the airmanship shown AFTER said mistakes happen?

[clunckdriver]

What Airmanship? Airmanship is using sound judgment, has NOTHING to do with hands and feet skills, "A superior pilot uses superior judgment, technical knowledge and decision making, to ensure superior skills are not required" Again, nothing to do with hands and feet, please try to understand this, you might live longer! The worst crash the company I worked for took place on a clear day, no wind, brand new aircraft, long uncontaminated runway,flown by one of the best "hands and feet" pilots I ever worked with, his judgment sucked, result, over a hundred dead, we are not flying the fighters of our youth in this job, we are charged with transporting trusting pax between two points without drama and with as little risk as can be managed, they pay for an uneventfull, even dull flight ,the media havnt worked this out yet, nor it seems have some who post on this site.

[DHC6to8]

edited at the request of another

[Flexable]

What was Picher was carrying when he was arrested: marijuanna (not heroin or cocaine).
I know it is illegal, but legal in some country. (like alcohol was not that long ago). Marijuana is sometimes use to alleviate some bad effect of cancer treatement.
Substance abuse is bad, alcohol, pills or whatever. What we neede is better education on the danger of addiction.
Education is helping to reduce the number of cigarettes smokers (or is it cancer), not that long ago smoking was cool, even some claim it to be good for your health.
I am not trying to justify Picher's action, he made mistakes and serve his sentence. Then cleared his name trough a legal process. It is call rehabilitation.
I suggest that you reread the official accident report before making accusations.

[J.O.]

DHC6to8:

I recommend that you review the licensing requirements that are set down in Canada. One of the requirements is that the Minister of Transport (and his Transport Canada underlings by assignment) SHALL issue a license to any and all applicants who meet the required criteria. It does not say that they "may issue it if they feel like it", but that they shall issue the license. Nowhere in the regulations does it indicate that an applicant must have never had a criminal conviction for drug trafficking.

He did the crime and did whatever time the Crown felt he deserved. If you want this to change, you need to lobby the legislators first, as it is they who would change the licensing requirements, not Transport Canada.

I still think my biblical quote above applies, but some refuse to believe that all human beings are not perfect. Living in glass houses is fraught with risk when one is casting stones.

[breguet]

I remember 3 to 4 days after the occurrence, Picher, the First Officer and 2 Air transat VPs they did a press conference in YMX. When the 4 of them walked in they all had a long face, not reflecting a job well done.

I tought, something not nice happenned in this occurrence. I heard through the grapevines, that if they did not ditch, it is because the FO told Picher to go to Lajes because Picher despite what was happening wanted to proceed to mainland Portugal...

Still, to do a movie on him is a total waste of time and money for an occurrence that should have finished with a single engine landing in Lajes if things have done correctly...

[Commander Taco]

It was obvious, both in the accident report and the movie, that the F/O knew exactly what was wrong whereas the Captain clearly did not.

'Taco

[Yobbo]

The accident CLUNK is referring to is AIR CANADA 621. Goggle it.
A little more research will reveal the very poor DC-8 record of our national carrier .

[DHC6to8]

edited at the request of another

[Flexable]

Breguet: "When the 4 of them walked in they all had a long face, not reflecting a job well done."

I am not a trainned psychologist but traumatic experience like this leave sequel (lack of sleep ect.). The what if...question is always present.

Read the book or check interview on the Hudson ditching where i beleive they did a fantastic job but still report lack of sleep, reliving the experience in their mind over and over. I am sure it took them more than a few days to be able to smile while thinking or doing a press interview about the accident.

As for not ditching (Air Transat) the were lucky as the nat track they got was a lot closer than the one the file for so Lady Luck did not abandon them completely.

But i have to give credit to Air Transat in their ability to spin control the info/news.

[sec 3]

Like it or not dungdriver and 6to8, Bob Piche is a celebrity and making lots of money on it, two things you will never have. Don't watch the movie then, see who cares!! Real pilots who fly real airplanes will watch it and enjoy!:}

[clunckdriver]

Flex, your are so right about the spin controll, in the case of the Gimli Glider of course little spin was needed, the Conservative party went on the anti Metric rant and the press like sheep picked up on it, all AC had to do was sit back and stay mum! Worked like a charm, one can still meet pilots who havnt worked it out yet.Sec3, again I must thank you for you informed response,but just for the record Im in the top four percent of incomes in Canada and have over eight turbine aircraft on my ATPL,{and own two aircraft} eat your heart out! Hope the mods dont pull your nonsense this time as if they do I will have to post again, Regards ,Clunck.

[Willie Everlearn]

DHC6to8

Just some friendly advice....
Based on your comment "I base my opinion on this clown by the facts".
If you don't know him personally, under the Criminal Code of Canada you just set yourself up for a potential defamation lawsuit by virtue of your reference to him as "this clown", for all the world to see. Ouch! That's going to be a tough one for you to backtrack or to get out of.
Despite the man's history, past, present or future, he got the aircraft onto a runway and EVERYONE walked away from it. It's quite often a 'c' hair between your being a hero or bum and if you've flown an aeroplane for any length of time, YOU KNOW THAT. Right?

DHC6to8 "TC/MOT can confiscate a pilot licence or for that matter a driver's licence if said licence is used to perpetuate a crime, which the last time I checked drug smuggling was a felony...."

Perpetuate? As in continually or continuous??
Perpetrate maybe? As in commit?
Actually, in Canada committing a crime under the Narcotic Control Act is not a felony it's an indictable offence. Felony is more common in American law and on American television. Since you bring it up, was Capt. Piche ever convicted? Was his crime committed in Canada or the United States? Was there ever a pardon in his case for time served? Did the DA and his defense lawyer plea bargon to reduce the sentence?
This thread is full of information swiss cheese and could stand some fact. Personally, I don't condone any professioal pilot participating in drug smuggling at any level for any reason. I like to think the system convicts based on fact and a little more fact would go a long way to refute much of the vitriole spewing in this thread which is biased at best and hostile at the least.

DHC6to8 "I have lived a moral life and can claim the high road, if you can't... that is your business... if you feel more comfortable around others who are closer to you in character and life record then go be with them... infact, go fly with them... you can feel better about yourself by surrounding yourself with others who have done far worse or other things... This arse deserved to have his licence revoked the day he was convicted, never to be able to fly again..."

I'm not naieve enough to accept this self assessment of your virtuous life. Honestly, you and I aren't perfect and we'll go from there. I've never used drugs without a prescription. I share the moral ground with you. However, I know for a fact there are pilots out there, far and wide, who do take or use illegal substances. I know their are ATC types who do likewise. None that I've ever known have ever been caught. I suppose I could have blown the whistle, sounded an alarm, but never did. Mybad.:eek:
Are you scared? Worried? Feel like you've been betrayed by your profession? I do. You owe it to yourself to ask around.
The criminal jurisdictions in both Canada and the U.S. have punishment/sentencing befitting the crimes. If Mr. Piche was found guilty, convicted, and sentenced, we can all rest assured he was either incarcerated and/or fined. I have no idea what his sentence was but due to the time involved my suspicion is that he's paid the price for his stupidity. It's a good thing society doesn't have too many out here who feel he deserves to have his life thrown away because of opinions like yours and to a certain degree, mine. He deserves a chance to get it right and make something of himself, which I would say, he has.
Personally, I'm in favour of the death penalty in Canada. I don't think the likes of Bernardo or Olsen ever deserved to breath for a second beyond sentencing, but I don't administer the justice system in Canada. Who said it makes sense or is what WE canadians want for punishment?

DHC6to8 Our society is focused on the wrong characters... smuggle drugs, have a few other good stories to tell and you get to write a book and then make a movie.... what we should be reading about or watching is something more positive and heroic, maybe the youngsters will learn something rather than that crime and deceit pays...

Nice guys finish last. Nice guys rarely become legends. Except Sully. Imagine if his past contained some dirt? What if his A320 cartwheeled on touchdown and a number of deaths ensued? Nice guys aren't written about. Movies aren't made about boring, normal, nice guys like us.

DHC6to8 Anybody who supports this drug smuggling arse is either just as guilty to such behavior or is an idiot... plain and simple. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif

Yikes! Lawsuit. Lawsuit.....

Willie :ok:

[Yobbo]

Gee, 8 turbines on your ATPL and the top 4%!!! What a pompous ass you are .

[clunckdriver]

Yobo, read the post, just a simple rebutal of Sec3s statements re my and one other posters financial worth and "those who fly real airplanes", nothing more, nothing less , Regards, Clunck.

[MAN2YKF]

Breguet: "When the 4 of them walked in they all had a long face, not reflecting a job well done."

I am not a trainned psychologist but traumatic experience like this leave sequel (lack of sleep ect.). The what if...question is always present.

As for not ditching (Air Transat) the were lucky as the nat track they got was a lot closer than the one the file for so Lady Luck did not abandon them completely.

But i have to give credit to Air Transat in their ability to spin control the info/news.

Long faces, after going through what they had just been through and then moved from Country to country to avoid the press for 5 days would make anyone look tired and drawn.
My wife was on that flight and i can assure you she wasn't laughing and smiling for sometime!

Lady luck was on there side that night, there flight path was changed several times and the last change had them closer to the Azore's and yes, the FO played a major part in getting the aircraft there. From what i have been told there was no discussion once it was suggested.
As for a ditching, all the crew were told to prepare for the ditiching, no one knew for sure if they would make it.
So Dungdriver back off! he might be the scum in your eyes, but he's a hero in mine and of those in the US where he and the FO were honoured!

[clunckdriver]

So Man2YKF, if Piche is a hero for scewing up the crossfeed and dumping the fuel into the Oggin, what does that make the AC crew who did the correct QRH checklist after working out the problem ?{remember, this took place BEFORE Mr Piches incident} in fact the AD on the fuel feed pipe was as a result of this problem with the AC aircraft, again Im amazed that those who do it right dont seem to get the praise that those who scew it up seem to get, must be the "media" age we live in .

[Yobbo]

Even though the AIR CANADA crew followed your company "SOP " they managed to screw up the calculations and ran out of fuel. Yes they did a good job and managed to salvage the situation, and so did Piche . Your rants on this thread and other threads leads me to believe you are anti French Canadian. I still maintain you are a pompous ass

[sec 3]

My sentiments exactly Yob. Great post as always Willie:ok: I must admit clunk, my opinion is a bit biased because I know Capt Piche, but there's no need to trash him like you did. Every pilot makes mistakes at one time or another, but you have to admit he did a pretty good job in the end. If you can't admit that, then there's no hope for you.

[CanadaRocks]

What he did to get the aircraft on the ground was truely amazing.

Now! I flown with him many times as "HIS" fo. He is not so keen on CRM. Taking advice, He doesn't!

Why did so many fo call in sick when they had to fly with him. It was great for me though being in Toronto...$$$$

SEC...you're a safe pilot. Attitudes like his in our industry we don't need.

Only my 2 cents worth.

[clunckdriver]

Yobo, SOPs used in the Gimli fiasco? You must be refering to another flight, even re reading the inquiry from cover to cover Im damned if I can find any SOPs used in the Gimli Glider foul up, please explain what SOPs were used, I must be missing something, thank you.

[clunckdriver]

Mods, could you be kind enough to allow me to answer Yobos libelous charge in Canadas "other language" Thanking you in advance!

Anti - Franco? Esc-ce-que c'est pourquois que j'ai payer deux impots aux conseils scholaires pour que mes enfants frequentent une ecole Francaise? Est-ce-que je suis Anti - Franco cars j'ai defier CALPA lors de la greve concernant la langue Francaise sur nos ondes a Quebec - et quand j'ai fait cela, ils (les vrai 'anti-francos) m'ont appeler un Separatiste!!??!!
Monsieur, vous n'avez aucune credibility...

[sgs233a]

Clunck,
I'm curious about the AC A330 incident you referred to. I've read a great number of reports, and don't recall anything about that one... Would love to hear a little more about it - know of any reports kicking around online about it?


Thanks,
Colin

[breguet]

YOBO, the AC330 did not ran out of fuel; both engines, if I recall correctly , went to idle for an unknown reason so far and they landed safely in CYUL. So may be, you should check your facts before embarrassing yourself....By following SOP contrary to someone else, they did the correct thing landing a plane which was not structurally damaged....

[Yobbo]

Mate, you appear to be all genned up on the AIR CANADA A330 incident. Would you care to share it with us?

[Willie Everlearn]

breguet

SOPs in a non-standard situation or predicament is probably not such a good idea. Standard means standard, yawwwwwn, another routine flight.

When the sh*t hits the fan, you need to be focused on what needs to be done and who needs to do what. Strictly adhering to SOPs could spell disaster.

Not sure many who have gone through unexpected events followed SOPs? I think most who have a tale to tell will admit that the situation called for non-standard solutions.

FWIW
Willie :ok:

[billy34-kit]

Willie, a well known case where the crew stick to ''dead'' to the sop,...remember swiss air!!...a little deviation to the ''procedure'' and maybe a different ending!

[taildragger2004]

Having known, trained and flown with capt. Piche several years before the incident, I can only say that he was an above average pilot. After being layed off, with family responsibilities, he did what most people would judge as irresponsible. Let us not sit here and judge what he did prior to the engine failure but praise the results and how the crew performed.
Those who have not tasted adrenalin during an emergency should refrain from any comment. We certainly can't predict our reactions, or performance. Have a good look at the tapes after you complete your LOFT training and CRM. Possibly your opinions will change.
As someone once quoted: IF ALL THE TIME YOU USE THINKING YOUR RIGHT....IS THERE ANY TIME LEFT TO THINK YOU MAY BE WRONG........

[DHC6tropics]

"Let us not sit here and judge what he did prior to the engine failure"

I throw up a little in my mouth when I hear this described as an engine failure.

Much more accurate is, "The engines stopped as they are designed to do when there is no longer any fuel entering the combustion chamber." This was not the fault of the engine...it was the fault of the mechanics and the pilots (yes, our Hero :yuk: Piche) for allowing the fuel exhaustion to take place.