Turn Left/Right x degrees - readback query

[camel toe]

Hi

Quick question. Recently speaking to one of the London controllers and we were asked to "turn left 10 degrees".

In my read back are you expecting just the "turn left 10 degrees" or are you expecting to hear "turn left 10 degrees new heading will be xyz".

Thanks

Camel Toe

"Over Macho Grande?"

[Cartman's Twin]

It's an often asked question!

Generally speaking, if we need to know the heading, we'll ask for it so if you are asked to "turn left 10 degrees" (one - zero obviously!) then that's all that's needed to be read back. Furthermore, on a busy frequency that's all that we'd like, often every second counts so I would ask you not to read back the heading as we often get the: "BAW123 turn left 10 degrees, new heading urm, um, eee arghhh 1 - 7 - 3 degrees, oh no, 1 - 7 - 4!"

If we need to know the heading it'll more than likely be:
"BAW123 turn left 10 degrees, report the heading"

Just as an aside, within the London TMA as we are fortunate enough to have Mode S display options, we'll usually be able to see the heading so even if we need to know what it is, we need not ask you to supply it.

Hope this helps!

Eric

[JayeRipley]

Hi

Personally speaking, if I want to know the heading I will say 'turn left 10 degrees and report new heading' if I just need you to turn and don't need to know the heading then I will just say 'turn left 10 degrees'.

If I am separating you from someone else and you are both on similar tracks then if you turn and report the heading, I can just put the other pilot on the same/similar heading without asking him/her.

All depends really on the objective of the heading.

Hope all is clear!!!

Cheers

[camel toe]

Thanks folks, makes perfect sense.

[gc4atco]

Agree with everything above.

We have phraseology when we want the new heading (as detailed above).

As an approach controller, I often use "turn right 5 degrees, closing the localiser from the left, report established" because I don't need to know the new heading, just that a little jink to the right with safely get you on the loc.

Hope that helps :ok:

[kick the tires]

with mode S, can you see our heading and speed when we are in 'managed'? All we have displayed on the FCU, Flight Control Unit, is three dashes ---

[matsATC]

can you see our heading and speed when we are in 'managed'? All we have displayed on the FCU, Flight Control Unit, is three dashes ---

I don't know if the heading can be seen in this case (because we don't have Enhanced Mode S in our centre yet), but since you are normally locked on a heading when we need you to, you're no longer in managed mode, and the heading will be shown at that moment...

[Talla Radar]

Yes, provided your Mode S transponder is fully serviceable, we can always see your magnetic heading and indicated airspeed regardless of what is set on the FCU.

[10W]

And you have Enhanced Mode S capability on the aircraft of course ;)