M.E.L and D.D.G

[NEWYEAR]

I apreciate an explanation about the meaning of M.E.L and D.D.G

What are the diferences between each other?

And, What´s the meaning of the folowing letters (code limitations): A,B,C,D and remarks or exceptions: (M) and (O)

Thanks a lot.

[Intruder]

Minimum Equipment List - What you need to fly
Dispatch Deviation Guide - What to do if something is broken, for both (M)aintenance and (O)perations people (e.g., pilots).
A/B/C/D - Different deadlines (as specified, 3/10/120 days) for getting broken equipment fixed, if you are allowed to fly with it broken.

[Intruder]

CDL - Parts is parts. Which of them can be missing, and what to do when they are!

[ampclamp]

Where I am the DDG (dispatch deviation guide) is the whole book containing the MEL and CDL plus the usual list of terms, terminology ,acronyms , preamble and any other stuff ie the EICAS meassage list if its an EICAS type Boeing for example.

[BOAC]

Just to finish off your question, NY, (M) and(O) refer to actions or considerations for Maintenance and Ops respectively

[NEWYEAR]

Thanks everybody for your help.

So, If you see (M) means that engineer is required to solve the problem, isn´t it?

Can a pilot to solve the problem when you see (M) in your MEL?

I think you can´t do anything at all, or you shouldn´t.....

BR.

[BOAC]

In general, yes. I presume that if it is something like a CB pull there may be a way to authorise you to do it in a difficult situation..

[Intruder]

The DDG is for use PRIOR to flight, so any [M]aintenance done must be done by a qualified mechanic and properly documented. Any circuit-breaker pulling IN flight would be done per the Non-normal checklists.

HOWEVER, the DDG is also useful inflight as a reference because it may give additional insight into the effects of the failure on other systems.

[BOAC]

We are talking about 'prior to flight', not 'IN' flight. I have yet to use a DDG to ACTION an in-flight defect.:)

[NEWYEAR]

Hi, good day.

I need help about these questions related to MEL.:O

1. What´s the meaning of this symbol (asterisk) in a MEL? *

2. If a placard is neccesary but there isn´t the engineer,
Is it a NO GO? What would you do? I mean, Could you go without the
placard?

3. If you have a techinical problem (about an item) and the MEL does NOT
mention it, Is it a NO GO?

Thanks a lot:)

[One Outsider]

The inoperative item needs placarding.
If a placard is required according to the MEL it becomes a no-go item. However, as there is no defined standard on said placard it is perfectly acceptable for the crew to install or make one themselves, unless your company says otherwise.
Not necessarily. "If it's not in the MEL it's a no-go" is one of the most widely misunderstood and misused sayings in aviation. Only items related to the airworthiness of the aircraft can become a no-go item.

[AerocatS2A]

3. If you have a techinical problem (about an item) and the MEL does NOT
mention it, Is it a NO GO?
It depends on the item. Some things aren't in the MEL because they're an obvious no go item. You're unlikely to find an approval to fly a twin with one engine inoperative in the MEL. On the other hand there are a lot of things that are of no real consequence, or that may be defective but within defined tolerances. You may discover a crack in a prop, and you won't find props in the MEL, but after consultation with an engineer you may come to an informed decision that the crack is within the limits specified in the maintenance manual and may be deferred "not safety of flight."

What you SHOULD find is that, in a mature company, what you may and may not do as the pilot in command is clearly defined in the ops manuals. For example I know that I may defer something as being "not safety of flight" because my company ops manual says I can, it also says how I am to do it and under what circumstances I may do it.

Another thing that is sometimes misunderstood about the MEL is that a captain may refuse to accept an aircraft with an item deferred under the MEL if he or she thinks it would be unsafe to fly it in that condition. For example, the TCAS may be an MEL item but on a particular flight the captain may decide that the TCAS is essential and refuse to take the aircraft if it is U/S, that is their right as the PiC.

[NEWYEAR]

Thanks :D

Best regards

[Dan Winterland]

In my company, one fleet uses a DDG and another a MEL. There is essenyially little difference between the documents - they are different names for the same animal and I gather my fleet's document will be renamed for commonality and to waste a few more trees.

As well as M and O procedures, we also have A procedures - Alternative procedures which can be completed by suitably qualified Pilots which can replace M procedures. These are useful for getting out of remote airfield with limited or no engineering support.

[happybiker]

I have not come across "A procedures" before. Sounds to me like a cheap skate company cost saving measure to avoid using a qualified engineer!

Pilots fly aircraft and carry out operational procedures, engineers fix defects and carry out maintenance procedures. Seeemple! Tchk!

If it is not in the MMEL or the regulation that allows a MEL permission to be granted then what is the legal basis for an A procedure?

[Dan Winterland]

It's a 'bus thing and only a few operators are authorised to do them (by the design authority and the regulating authority) and it is official. It's all done within the flight deck on the CFDS through the MCDUs by qualified crew only, strictly following the procedure in the FCOMs. It is largely restricted to checking alternative systems are operative if there is a single failure. A procedures are only used if there is no engineering support, otherwise the corresponding M procedure will have to be used.

I'm OK with it. If you saw some of our destinations, you wouldn't want to be stuck there either!

[AerocatS2A]

Sometimes the M procedure is little more than collaring circuit breakers, there is no reason why a suitably trained pilot shouldn't be able to that. We don't have A procedures but we do have M (FCM) procedures which are M procedures that the flight crew can carry out. They are pretty much limited to pulling circuit breakers and checking that remaining systems work.

[happybiker]

In a previous life I recall an operator pressing the regulator to allow Bus flight crews to carry out (M) tasks that required the verification of alternative systems by use of the CFDS when appropriately trained. By the way, as specified in the MEL, these verification tasks are usually carried out in accordance with the AMM procedures and not the FCOM.

At that time, although the flight crews were proficient in using the MCDU, they failed to demonstrate their competence to complete the verification tasks as specified in the AMM correctly when a number of random tasks were selected for them to do so.

The operator's request was refused.