Which Licence do I want?

[davydine]

Hi All,

I would really appreciate the wisdom of the group!

I would really like to learn to fly but I am not sure which licence would be best for me. I know that I can not get a PPL as my uncorrected eyesight will not get me through the CAA class II medical so at the moment that leaves me with with only the NPPL route open to me. My Corected eyesight is 20/20 with only very slight astigmatism in one eye so no problems there!

When i was at university 12 years ago I was in the university gliding club and reached silver c standard, so I have a little flying experience.

I have a wife and young family so money and time will both be in fairly short supply and are a consideration.

The choices are:

NPPL Microlight - fewer hours required and lower cost flying but limited to two seats so not so "family friendly!

NPPL SSEP - More hours required and more costly but posibility to rent or have a share in a four seater and get the whole family involved once i have qualified

NPPL SLMG - Well i loved gliding so perhaps this would be a way or me to go!

Upcoming EASA licence - I know nothing about this and only heard about if a couple of weeks ago. It would be nice to be able to fly in the rest of Europe. Does anyone know what the medical (eyesight) requirements are likely to be. I understand the EASA initial eyesight requirements are not so demanding in terms of uncorrected vision compared to the CAA. It would also be nice to be able to get an instrument rating, i feel it would open up the number of days and the distance I could fly rather than being restricted by VMC conditions.

Obvioulsy these are just initial thoughts and I may be completely missing the point. I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences.

Thanks for your help.
David

[fuzzy6988]

I know that I can not get a PPL as my uncorrected eyesight will not get me through the CAA class II medical so at the moment that leaves me with with only the NPPL route open to me. My Corected eyesight is 20/20 with only very slight astigmatism in one eye so no problems there!


I would recommend having a look through this: Initial JAR Class 2 (Private Pilot) Medical Examination | Medical | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=90&pageid=528)

If you have 20/20 after correction, you may be able to do a PPL.

[Rod1]

Given your previous gliding experience it may be cheaper and quicker to go SLMG. When you have got that you can see what has happened in Europe and upgrade as required, even to a PpL if you can get the medical.

Rod1

[davydine]

Thanks Fuzzy, i had already seen the JAR class 2 requirements. The bit that lets me down is the correction. My glasses are stronger than the -8 diopter maximum that is set out in the visual accuity requirements. I don't really understand why they specify the maximum strength of the prescription but they do, so I can't get the class 2 medical.

The irony is that I believe that the FAA do not have this specification, they just look at the corrected vision, so in the USA I could get a commercial pilots licence! If I had know that 15 years ago i might be an ATPL now!

David

[Gertrude the Wombat]

My glasses are stronger than the -8 diopter maximum that is set out in the visual accuity requirements. I don't really understand why they specify the maximum strength of the prescription but they do, so I can't get the class 2 medical.
Under earlier rules your prescription didn't matter provided that you could see with your glasses on - mine is -9.something.

When the new rules came in my AME said they weren't intended to stop me flying so he gave me a medical anyway (with a "non-JAA compliant" rubber stamp on it, which nobody abroad has ever cared about). He said that the fact that with my glasses I could see better than many of his other punters entered into his thinking.

[tinpilot]

You might also want to factor in what's available and convenient to you locally, for training & post-solo hire.

Have a look at the licence allowances document (http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/PDFs/NPPL%20XC%20REV%2008.pdf) from the NPPL website, you can always add ratings to an existing licence.

Bureaucratically speaking, your gliding experience will only count if you can produce a Glider Pilot's Licence, for which you need Bronze, XC endorsement and 5 hours PIC in the previous year. As you can see from the allowances document, there are significant benefits.

EASA's proposed medical standards available here (http://www.easa.eu.int/ws_prod/r/doc/NPA/NPA%202008-17c.pdf)

[fuzzy6988]

My glasses are stronger than the -8 diopter maximum that is set out in the visual accuity requirements


I see. I have three friends who had a high prescription. They went for laser surgery. I don't know if that helps?

[Humaround]

I believe the rules state that if you have LASIK, you are still bound by the ORIGINAL prescription - so it wouldn't help.

I had slightly over: -8.5R/+-9L, and still got my Class 2. This was a few years ago so it might be different now. I then had LASIK and now have +0.5R/+1.25L with some cyl. Still got my Class 2!

[patowalker]

If your eyesight does not meet the Initial JAR Class 2 Medical, this does not mean you will never get a JAR PPL. The renewal standards are lower and if you produce an ICAO compliant PPL and then seek a JAR PPL, you will be tested to renewal standards.

I went for an FAA licence, which should turn up in the post one of these days. When it does, I will get in touch with the CAA again.

I found my NPPL SSEA restrictive, because it does not allow me to fly aboad. The LAA is trying to get it accepted in France, but progress is slow.

[cats_five]

Are you absolutely sure your family want to go flying with you? It seems a waste of money to get a licence to fly 4 seats if they always have something better to do.

[davydine]

Thanks, everyone, for the info so far. The EASA licence medical requirements look as though I will have no problems. I will investigate further. As I mentioned and as one poster has said i am worried that being restricted to VMC by the NPPL SSEP might limit flying opportunities, certainly i guess it would be very unwise to set off for a longer xc / weekend away unless the forecast is very good. An IMC rating would open things up a bit.

The NPPL SLMG is also very tempting. I know that my previous experience will not count towards my licence in any way but hopefully I would be at an advantage over a complete ab initio. Gliding is out of the question as it is just too time consuming. Family commitments would never allow it. The slmg may just combine the "on demand" nature of powered flight with the pure pleasure of soaring flight.

As for the question of "do my family want to be involved" well, that is a good question. As I understand it microlight and SLMG hours do not count towards currency in SSEP so if the family want to come flying in a four seater then i would have to have a current SSEP rating. I know i can get my NPPL M first and then convert it later by doing the appropriate hours and GFT but I doubt I would have the time / money to keep both ratings current.

One further question. what is the difference between "Group A" and SSEP? I have seen a streak shadow for sale which is advertised as "group A" I assume that I would need the SSEP rating to fly this but that the costs would be closer to that of microlight flying. This could be a solution to keeping the SSEP rating up and being able to rent a four seater when the family want to come flying. i want to be able to fly as much as posible and to my mind 10 hours at £50 per hour is better than 5 and £100

This learning to fly business is a mine field! The last thing i want to do is spend a fortune gaining one licence only to have to spend another fortune at a later date to convert it to the type i would actually use.

Thank you all for being patient with me!
David

[Whopity]

One further question. what is the difference between "Group A" and SSEP?Group A was the UK PPL classification for single engine aeroplanes below 5700Kg. It was replaced by SEP in Jan 2000 so there has been no Gp A for the past 10 years! SSEA is a variation of SEP but restricted to a max weight of 2000Kgs.

It would also be nice to be able to get an instrument rating,Then you will need a full PPL which requires a Class 2 Medical!
With your previous gliding experience SLMG might be a good start. When EASA comes in in 2 years that will offer a change over to a LAPL (TMG) from which you could then upgrade to a PPL if required.