UK to Ibiza

[davelongdon]

Well to finish off my hour building guys....Im planning a flight from Tatenhill to Ibiza and back....VFR with the lads from Friday til Monday

Just wondering whether people on here have done a similar trip and wonder if they can give me any advice.

Depart 1300 Local.....Departing UK around Southampton arriving in France around Le Havre.....Looking to dip down for fuel probably Blois le Breuil (LFOQ) then looking to stay overnight in Toulouse Lasbordes (LFCL)

On Saturday morning.....looking to depart Toulouse heading to avoid the Pyrenees by routing overhead Perpignan Rivesaltes (LFMP)

to coast out further north up the coast from Barcelona to route via Majorca into Ibiza.

Any advice from anyone.....im a bit concerned over flying over high ground near Toulouse....because of weather and cloud base as Im flying VFR or is it generally high in this part of the world. Is the most sensible crossing from the north via majorca.

Do all airfields speak English over radio??? Do they all except cash or credit card for fuel.

Any advice for me in PA-28 warrior would be greatly received.

[ab33t]

All I can say if you have a French speaking person take him/her along . Most of the smaller airports only speak French , well some do speak English . Check operation hours I arrived at an aiport during lunch from 12-14:00 and had to wait for fuel. All the aiports I flew into took cc .

[Squealing Pig]

Limoges (LFBL) is a good stopping place and expect to get searched by French customs on the return trip where ever you stop.

[maxred]

I frequently fly to Majorca/Ibiza from Glasgow in my Bonanza. Clear customs at Perranporth, route Ortak - Jersey - Ang - Poitiers (stop for lunch and refuel) route Poitiers Gaelac (VOR) Perpignon Bagur(VOR) DCT POL (Majorca). Ibiza is about 30 mins flight from Son Bonet Majorca.
Issues are the Med crossing under 3500, Barcelona very difficult to talk to, Majorca slightly better, but approach from the North under 1000 and Palma can not hear you until round the coast at Polensa. Its the way I do it.
All good flying, but weather planning vital with plenty of planned Alts to go to. Great trip though. The VFR corriders into Ibiza are well positioned and marked, controllers excellent.

[AEST]

Advice fuel stop at Channel Islands
Stay away from BCN Class A
Study carefully airspace around the Balearics
WXWXWXWXWXWX

[davelongdon]

Thanks guys for the advice, especially the routing...jut bit nervous as I can only fly VFR....but what if there arent any french speaking people on board???

[maxred]

I don't speak a word and have never had any issues. If you route via the larger fields there should be no issue. My experience is that language issues crop up at the small private strips, and probably rightly so. The careful filing of flight plans is a must, but again plenty of help and assistance on the ground if required. On your original post you mentioned Toulouse - I would go further east, hence my route GAI over Carcassonne to Perpignan. The ground is high to the south, and you have the Narbonne Valley to route down, on to the coast, and you can follow the coastline to the Spanish border. Then Bagur. Perpignan will pass you to Girona, who in general are ok, but Barcelona is a nightmare. Even commercial have issues on occasion. Study the Med charts well in advance, and the VFR routing into and out of Majorca. Plenty of good prep should see you with no problems (as always). Watch out returning if July - the mistral begins to blow hard and I have been laid up in Perpignan for a few days due to weather.

[davelongdon]

I am flying thi coming Friday and coming back on the Monday, seems pointless really but want to get my hour building out the way and seems to be a different way to do it......but the charts have just landed on the doorstep....and the idea of all that high ground down south averaging upto 2000ft from poitiers to perpignan.....do the clouds average alot higher than that this time of year....dont want to get stuck anywhere you see....so everything seems to be a bit daunting!

Sorry if I sound a wuss!

Also best place for weather....sign up for Meteo France?

[maxred]

The weather and cloudbase will always be the challenge when flying VFR. Rule of thumb, if it looks iffy, stay on ground. Flying in France is a joy, however, ambling about VFR in a country you have never flown in before, with language issues etc etc, can be challenging. That is why I suggested routing VOR/main airfields which gives you a proper flightplan, process, it allows you to plan ahead, get correct weather planning. If you study the charts, Poitiers DCT GAI DCT Carcassonne, the valley is not that high. My charts are in my aeroplane and cant quite remember the high levels. Meteo and flight planning at French fields is very comprehensive, much easier than here in the UK. IMO.
Allowing a weekend for an Ibiza trip is quite a challenge. You may consider a trip down to say La Rouchelle/Royan, west coast France which would ease you into the ''French Way''. With that under your belt, the Ibiza trip could be the next challenge????? Best of luck whatever you do - enjoy

[AEST]

Don't get worried, it's doable if you're flexible responding to WX situation.
Language should not be an issue, if your English is OK

[Sam Rutherford]

Hi,

Just flown an R44 from Denham to Tangiers (but via Sabadell (Barcelona). It's an easy trip, enjoy.

Leave yourself enough time that if the weather's not great, then just wait and look about where you are.

Our stops (good ones) were:

Le Touquet-Bourges-Albi-Sabadell (which is where you can head out from to Ibiza).

Safe flights, Sam.

[davelongdon]

Ok Ive registered for Meteo France....what website shall I use for Spain/Balaerics.

Here is another question for everyone....cloud is scattered...so you climb on top....with still being sight of surface...say at the suggested fl65-85....but then the cloud starts to close up below.....is it a simple 180 and descend...keep going on top...or descend through the closing gaps....reason im asking is due to higher ground having to fly higher in France.

DB

[jxc]

I believe you your licence is UK therefore you have to descend whether that's doing a 180 or descending through the gaps as VFR is in sight of ground in UK rules. I think if you were licenced in france they allow you vfr on top.

[davelongdon]

Guys just a quick thank you for all your help. Flightplan sent....so off to Ibiza via Poitiers and Sabadell tomorrow VFR....Will let you know how I get on on my return on Monday!

DB

[Fuji Abound]

Here is another question for everyone....cloud is scattered...so you climb on top....with still being sight of surface...say at the suggested fl65-85....but then the cloud starts to close up below.....is it a simple 180 and descend...keep going on top...or descend through the closing gaps....reason im asking is due to higher ground having to fly higher in France.



UK PPL then you need an IMCr to be VFR on top.

Good luck

[IO540]

Didn't I post on this thread, yesterday... now deleted?

[davelongdon]

Where on earth has it disappeared...did you inbox me...nope checked.....a couple of other peoples have disappeared too....do they moderate?

[Saab Dastard]

Nothing has been removed from this thread.

Are you sure you are not confusing this with another thread - e.g. http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/415632-first-flight-uk.html

SD

[liam548]

Guys just a quick thank you for all your help. Flightplan sent....so off to Ibiza via Poitiers and Sabadell tomorrow VFR....Will let you know how I get on on my return on Monday!

DB


Have a good flight Dave. Looking forward to the write up on your return :)

[IO540]

I posted a reply to the "Here is another question for everyone....cloud is scattered..." question.

[Midland Transport]

Your R/T skills are important on this trip. Make sure you plan your R/T well ahead of entering the Control Area's of the large airports it will really pay dividends.Er's and Umm's will be greted with difficult to understand routings or instructions. Decide what you want to ask them and be clear and concise. Majorca are normally very helpful as are Ibiza as they get lots of VFR inter island.

[liam548]

how did it go Dave?

[davelongdon]

Thanks for asking Liam...

Well guys it was unbelievable.....CAVOK and 6 kt winds all way there on Friday Saturday and all the way back Sunday Monday.

Heres my story....

Friday 21st May

Arrived at tatenhill before lunch....just my luck...Special Branch had turned up to check me and the plane out. Would you if you had a GAR for 3 lads going to Ibiza haha. We departed Tatenhill with just short of full tanks on the Warrior. East Midlands activated the flightplan for us when we were up in the air.

We routed direct Compton & Goodwood before coasting out (watching out for the gliders over Lasham....nutters). Cleared through Danger areas by London Info direct to Caen before flying direct Poitiers. We did the whole trip at 3500 feet.....once in france....not really any danger areas or airspace to avoid. Bit turbulent in mid afternoon due to hot air. 387nm....3 hours 45 minutes.....With 1/4 tanks left. Landing fee...not paid yet as there was only a security guy there so he asked us to fill out a form. We decided to refuel as soon as we landed, fuel guy came out straight away and accepted Bank Card. We then left the plane on the apron....called a taxi....booking.com app on iphone reservation for the Ibis in town for a meal and an early night.

Saturday 22nd May

Early morning call....we were up in the air for 740 local. It was so calm up there....we got cleared direct to GAI VOR near toulouse for FL65...they could understand my Wolverhampton accent without a problem. We proceeded over the high ground direct over Perpignan. We then had two options....Follow coast all the way round....or between and over the mountains direct to Girona. We took the latter....wish I hadnt....Girona...nightmare, Ive been warned by a few people about Girona/Barcelona Control. They cleared me direct overhead at FL65....but then told me to descend 2500 feet to their whiskey point in which the ground nearby has an elevation of over 3000 as I was in the way of a Ryanair 737....so why clear me in the first place! I reminded them of the clearance and terrain info, and was overjoyed when transferred over to Barcelona from approach into Sabadell.....No problems here, lovely approach over the F1 circuit for 1500ft circuit round with approach over Sabadell and Motorway, fairly short runway as it is a private jet site. Again we refuelled straight away to 3/4 tanks, grabbed something to eat, paid the 9 euro fee ready to be underway. 360nm 3 hours 45 mins with still 1/4 tanks remaining.

We departed Sabadell to follow the VFR transit route behind Barcelona Airport inland and coasted out at Tarragona at 3500ft. Lovely 150nm crossing direct to San Antonio, well apart from Barcelona giving the wrong frequency for Palma control....what a surprised....so we tuned into Ibiza approach...we couldnt hear the controller....so we asked the thomson 757 above us to relay a message for the frequency. VFR approach into Ibiza is from the north...over San Antonio at a max height of 1000ft....never mind the 1300ft hills either side of you...As soon as you clear the hills, you swap over to tower and join downwind for 06....Gorgeous approach over the sea on base leg with the blue sea. The follow me vehicle was waiting for us off the taxiway....and a general aviation attendant to pick us up was already awaiting, to take me to operations, and my passengers to the terminal. Very very professional. 1 landing fee and over night stay...9 Euro!!!! Brilliant. Again we used booking.com and jumped in a taxi to our 30 euro apartment on the San Antonio front. We arrived at 1500 local. 174nm.....2 Hours....1/4 tanks left. We had an afternoon on the beach, dinner in the evening followed by town.

Sunday 23rd May

Well change of plan....we left San Antonio at lunch and we were going to go the same way back as we came....why...thats boring!!! Again the attendant took my passengers to the plane and me to the tower to file the flightplan.....we departed following the same VFR transit corridor at 1000ft out to San Antonio.....we then followed the coast and crossed over to follow the coast of Majorca to the POS VOR at the tip of Majorca. We wanted to go as close to home as possible to avoid long flight time on Monday....so we avoided our best mates at Barcelona and carried on direct to Perpignan via BGR Bagur VOR....40nm crossing between islands and then 120nm crossing to BGR from Majorca at 3500ft below the Class A Airspace. Once over BGR...we followed the beautiful Costa Brava all the way to the French Border where we swapped to Perpignan for a straight in approach from 20nm away number 1 for landing perfect. 2 1/2 hour flight......260nm.....6 euro landing and overnight.

Monday 24th May

Another early call for departure at 0800 local. Perpignan is a beautiful town! We climbed in the overhead to avoid the mountains with a beautiful view of the snowcapped Pyrenees towards Andorra...back up to FL65 direct GAI then direct to our last French stop Le Mans. Now I contacted customs the day before about our final port of call Le Mans....the airport knew nothing about it.....so no customs... but at end of the day I have filled out my obligation, I have contacted them with all details. I also contacted Le Mans saying I required fuel and didnt have an Air Total card, they said not a problem. We landed, no one to refuel or collect landing fees till Tuesday and if you wanted to refuel, you need an air total card....great. So we had to bribe a Frenchman who bumped up the price to use his card and pay him cash... completely ripped off but at least we got out of there...no wonder they were waving when we departed. Took 3 1/2 hours to get to Le Mans 342 nm.....Direct GAI VOR and then direct airfield.

We departed Le Mans up to FL45 for our 3 hour flight back to Tatenhill. 300nm....DCT Goodwood and Compton avoiding Lasham.

Overall a brilliant 4 days....a challenge and experience I will never forget. Thank you for all your contributions, it would have been possible without you. So well over 70 hours p1.....time for Multi Engine and IR....

DB

[VFR Transit]

Great little write up, any pictures??

VFR

[davelongdon]

Well I am setting up my own website daveburns.co.uk (http://www.daveburns.co.uk) so I will link it to a flickr account so you can see all my exploits plus I want to set up a website to help others do it the way I have! and share my trials and tribulations

[IO540]

That sounds like a great trip.

You were lucky with the weather. A lot of the year, this kind of thing is not so easy under VFR.

It reminds me of my first "big" VFR trip, in 2003, from UK to near Malaga. It was in that amazing summer of 2003. I remember the QNH was virtually the same all the way from the UK to Spain! I then had more great luck with long VFR trips to Greece in 2004/2005.

But as soon as I got the IR in 2006 it was obvious that the subsequent trips would have been a lot harder under VFR :) But given decent weather, and given CAS transits, there is very little need for an IR.

[davelongdon]

After lots of pleasing feedback regarding my single pilot trip to Ibiza, I have decided to share my experiences from Zero right uptodate. Pilot Magazine are interested in me doing a few articles for them so watch this space....

In the mean time for all you budding wannabe pilots out there that wants to see and be updated on how to do it one way can keep track on my website.

daveburns.co.uk (http://www.daveburns.co.uk)

Although only basic, I am using it as a CV for myself to give links to airlines. There is also links to contact me on facebook, twitter and watch my good and bad landings and gerneral stuff on youtube.

Hope this will be of some use for some people and give me something to work towards.

The industry is on th eup so dont be afraid!

[VFR Transit]

Dave,

What about your online photos of your trip, have you got a link?

VFR

[davelongdon]

Just for you....ill set up a Flickr Account and give you a headsup!

[VFR Transit]

Thanks very much

[davelongdon]

Pics now up

[liam548]

Great pics Dave, thanks for sharing. Plenty of them :)


Must do a similar trip myself sometime! How difficult did you find it, more complex?, easier than expected?

Out of interest how close to max weight were you in the PA28 G-TALG- 3 up, full tanks, life raft, bags etc?

Did you do Tatenhill to Poitiers in one leg?

Liam

[davelongdon]

It was a bit stressful on way down...just wanted to make sure everything went well. Once I had got there, on way back....it was a doddle....probably because I gave Barcelona a wide berth and headed direct to Perpignan.

We were quite close.....but it wasnt full tanks. It was between taps and full which meant we were under.

Yes we did Poitiers in one leg. We flew EGBM - DTY - CPT Sea CAN - Poitiers. Not bad going at all actually.

[liam548]

Cool, well done anyway. Also been looking at your Belfast trip.

Are your mates pilots as well or were you doing it alone to Ibiza?

[davelongdon]

No they arent pilots...just annoying passengers lol.

Yeh I did Belfast week after I received my licence...I was a bit nervous by a 70nm stretch over sea via Isle of Man but it was fine and it alot smoother than over land.

So didnt phase me for my 170nm sea crossing back from Ibiza!

The video im uploading at moment on youtube is a good one on landing into ibiza