PPL in Norwich

[markc80]

Hi,

Just wondered if anyone has any recommendations or advice about flying schools in Norwich as I'm about to start doing my PPL

Many thanks

markc80

[Cusco]

No but just down the road at Old Buckenham you would find PPL training considerably cheaper........

[Charles Sierra]

or Seething :ok:

[vanHorck]

I learned flying at the Norwich School of Flying, run by Brian Illston, last time I ws at Norwich they had a nice set up but I heard Norwich Airport was making life for GA difficult....

I was always happy to learn at a full size airport, it gets you used to multiple frequencies, mixing with large scale traffic etc...

[119.35]

VanHorck makes a good point ...... I think learning to fly out of a bigger airport certainly helps with your overall confidence. People seem to have no problem with the transition from a bigger airfield to flying out of a smaller one, but don't usually find it as easy vice versa.

I think it probably depends more on what you are going to do with your ppl and where you will do you flying?

If it's going to be mainly out of airfields like Old Buck, Seething for example, instead of Norwich airport? They are good airfields and as pointed out, will save you a fair amount of cash.

As with all flight training, you should pop over to each airfield you are interested in to have a chat and get a feel for the place first hand.

Good luck with your training!

[vanHorck]

Was 119.35 not the approach frequency for Norwich? And the tower 118 something?

I remember great controllers there, in Bermuda's....

[Cusco]

.. I think learning to fly out of a bigger airport certainly helps with your overall confidence. People seem to have no problem with the transition from a bigger airfield to flying out of a smaller one, but don't usually find it as easy vice versa.


I'm not sure I agree that the additional confidence allegedly imbued from learning to fly at a large commercial airport necessarily offsets the extra expense of landing/handling fees and the hassle of long taxis to the hold and delay at the hold with the clock ticking while commercial traffic gets preference.

Sure Norwich is a great place and the ATC second to none but the attitude to GA over the last few years has driven many away (including me).

And the proposed Class D around Norwich which is under discussion has not yet been kicked into the long grass.

A little bird tells me that a new management structure will attempt to woo back GA by easing red tape: time alone will tell.

If the OP lives near Norwich my advice would be to go and see all the Flying schools at Norwich but also to drop in to Old Buckenham. I don't know anything about Seething, but it's close enough to warrant a visit too.

The notion that a PPL who trained at a small airfield will not be able to cope with procedures at a large commercial airfield is an urban myth.

[vanHorck]

I think there are benefits in learning at a full swing airport, especially procedure wise.

On the other hand learning from a short field will expand the number of aerodromes you will visit including farm strips if you like.

After Norwich (I learned on a PA38 and PA28) I started renting from Modern Air at Fowlmere EGMA , which is a grass relatively short strip (700m). Later I flew Seneca from there.

So both types of aerodromes have their benefits

[Lister Noble]

I learned to fly there,a very well run professional establishment.
Good experienced instuctors,no hanging around in hold position,grass and tarmac runways,good aircraft PA28-180's and a highly competitive cost structure.
Lister:)

[Phil Space]

Forget Norwich unless you are happy to spend a lot of money to taxi the aircraft. Norwich are not keen on GA or commercial passengers and I suspect Omniport see the future in developing the airfield for housing.

Seething is not a place where you can turn up with money and learn to fly. They are renowned for being a clique that will take a long time to penetrate.

Old Buck or Shipdam are the best options. OB is quicker to reach from Norwich.

[Flyingvisitor]

There has been no ab initio training at Shipdham for years - I don't know if that is going to change now that airfields no longer need to be licensed to offer training (Shipdham is unlicensed)

Although I only know Seething as a visitor I have always found it to be friendly and inviting (and no more cliquey than other places). It is, however, correct that you can't just turn up and learn to fly - the airfield is club-run, and it's part of the deal that one has to spend a certain amount of time helping with the running of the place (serving behind the bar, refuelling aircraft, cleaning the premises, whatever).

Beccles is another option - it's in Suffolk (just) but fairly easy to get to from Norwich.

[Up and down]

Go to Old Buck - you won't regret it. I had a very enjoyable time there (and still do).

[Cusco]

I learned to fly there,a very well run professional establishment.
Good experienced instuctors,no hanging around in hold position,grass and tarmac runways,good aircraft PA28-180's and a highly competitive cost structure.

Agreed.

I'm based 10 mins from Old Buck and it is our 'gas station'.

While I did not learn there (I learnt at Ipswich a busy grass airfield), I have done my IMCR revals there for the last 12 years.

The CFI is a top bloke, their PA28s are clean, 'management' are friendly and the airfield has a buzz to it.

On top of that the main is tarmac, tho' you can use the grass. And it has runway lighting so night qual is something to look forward to.

I can't see what Norwich offers that Old Buck doesn't apart from a much larger PPL training bill.

Well worth a visit, IMHO Also google and visit their website for details.

[flygirl 001]

Try Sky Blue Flight Training...he balances using small airfields and Norwich Airport....

Norwich airport is a great place to fly from but at £15 per landing can become expensive when on a circuit detail...

PM me if you need anymore info..


Sky Blue Flight Training - Home (http://www.skyblueflighttraining.co.uk)

[niknak]

Back to the original question.

The answer is that:

1. Undoubtably, you will pay more to learn to fly at Norwich, it's a commercial establishment which has to be commercially viable, I don't agree with the previous attitude of the airport management to G/A but things are changing and hopefully for the better. There are four flying training organisations on the airfield, all offer a very high standard of training and if you learn to fly at Norwich you will get the regular flying experience which will equip you to fly anywhere in the UK without any worries.
2. You could learn to fly elsewhere and there's nothing wrong with doing so at Old Buck, or Seething. Those who have put down Seething forget that, although the way they do things is slightly different, they do have access to some very experienced instructors a couple of them are current very senior captains with major UK airlines. The CFI at Old Buck' is a very good instructor and comes highly recommended, but ultimately neither he or the other instructors don't have anything to beat that those at Norwich or Seething do.
Beccles now have the parachute people to contend with and, as they probably bring more wonga to the place your flying activity could be restricted by their operations.
3. Its entirely up to you where you opt for, but whilst more expensive, learning to fly from a properly equipped regional airport gives you the experience to cope with almost anything.

[Small B]

Old Buckenham is more expensive than Norwich! They charge £182 per hour. The school I'm flying with at Norwich charge £135 per hour! :ok: Thats an extra 5 or 6 landings at Norwich or the equivalent of about one hour free in ever four :eek:

Give Anglia Flight at Norwich a call, they have just moved to their own area near the control tower and museum which gives short taxi routes. I learnt with them and had a fantastic time, I still hire from them.

Learning at a large airfield does give you confidence.

Oh and the new managment seem very GA friendly, at least to based aircraft.

[Cusco]

Hmm: That certainly brings a new dimension to the discussion..............

[Up and down]

Old Buck was £150/hr last year. I don't know about Norwich, but this was an all-in price. Landings, text books etc were all free. Another important point was that hours paid = log-book hours. I understand that some schools charge by instructor hour.

To the O/P, I suggest you visit all the places that have been recommended. talk through the various topics mentioned, and let us know your conclusions!

[Lister Noble]

I didn't know they were charging that either,but it is probably still cheaper if you factor in club membership,free landings,loan of equipment etc.
I know people who have learned at Beccles and liked it ,but they do have the meat bombers there now,which was a nuisance sometimes at Old Buck.:)

[asthecrowflys]

Seething do certainly do things differently, but allow me to add some of the positives, first is the cost. The training aircraft is a very nicely presented Cessna 172 that will cost you about 100.00 an hour to fly. Unless anyone can tell me different I think this must be one of the cheapest in the UK, if not Europe and is certainly cheaper than flying at an American school.

Whilst training, and of course after, you have access to some very experienced instructors. Some people believe that one instructor throughout you training is best. Having trained with 5-6 at Seething I can only say that you will benefit from the experience that all can impart to your training.

As someone else mentioned in the thread, some are current long haul captains on major airlines. They all give their time free hence the low cost of training. (And you are all appreciated by students past and present).

The facilities are excellent, and being improved on all the time. Seething is a members club run by the members for the members and all monies received are re-invested. Soon will see the adition of new training buildings for ground school.

So whats the downside? Do not consider training at Seething of you are in a hurry to get your license. Expect two years. If, like me, you can not afford to train quickly, but want to spread the cost over a sensible and achievable time frame the I do not think that their is anywhere better. A new training manager Dan G is coordinating all training and he can be contacted through the website if anyone wants further information. See you there.

Seething Airfield - Flying Club (http://www.seething-airfield.com/)

[Small B]

Regarding instructor hours, all four schools at Norwich are hours paid = log-book hours.

With regard to equipment etc I can only say my PPL (qualified this January) at Anglia Flight cost £6576 including all equipment and landings, at the current advertised price on Old Buckenhams website the cost for 45 hours would be £8190, al saving of £1614 or put another way, I can afford another 11 hours. About a 25% saving!

Call all of the schools and see what you think yourself.

[jayeff]

Having looked about, I settled for Old Buck, where I felt at home. The deciding factors were:

A great set of instructors with a wealth of experience.
Landing fees/membership/resources free (including headset when you pass)
Proximity (diesel is NOT cheap these days).

It's possibly the case that training is cheaper elsewhere, but on balance I'm training at an at airfield which I'm happy to be, and I've had no reason to regret the decision - far from it. I think this is an important factor, having heard various stories of screaming instructors etc ruining the experience.

[Lister Noble]

I reckon you made the right decision,the CFI is incredibly helpful,and certainly never shouts.
He hums and makes little sounds to himself,taps whatever intrument you have just mis read or not read,and never makes you feel stupid.
The other instructor I flew with at Old Buck was exactly the same,I think I had a couple of lessons with other instructors but basically it was Gerry or Andrew,both excellent.
Good luck and happy flying.
Lister:)

[johnny3star]

What about going for an NPPLA (M) ?
£120/hour at Northrepps in a modern reliable 912 3-axis C42 ? Less hours needed to qualify, and a simple conversion to SSEA if you want more seats or insist on flying an old avgas guzzling aircraft when you do get your licence. :eek:
John

[markc80]

Firstly a big thank you to all of you who've taken the time to reply :D I'm in the first stage of dealing with my new-found aviation addiction and getting my PPL is a really important step, so it's great to have all this feedback.

I've decided I am going to go with either the Anglian Air Centre or try out Seething. Norwich Airport is literally 5 minutes drive away from me, so that's a big plus point. However, I like the social side that Seething offers. I'll try out both and make a decision that way.

My goal is to fly commercially some day for one of the major carriers - doing the PPL while I work towards the insane amount of money I need to do the training. Anyone wishing to contribute is more than welcome (Web design/Mac & PC Support/Consultancy anyone?)

By the way, it'd be great to meet up with anyone who's going down the same or a similar route.

Thanks again

M

[vanHorck]

Is anyone in contact with Ed Chapman, formerly (great) instructor at the Norwich School of Flying? I tried the lost and found section on this website but no success....

He became airline pilot at Manchester I was told and later incorporated into EZY but i never managed to get an email address...

[freon1978]

When I see Brian next I shall ask him if he's still in contact for you.

[freon1978]

Mark,

I work for the Norwich School of Flying and we operate out of the same hangar as Anglia Air Centre. Both are good schools with great instructors and more importantly, the attitude that the student comes first. So really it comes down to a personal choice. why not make arrangements to see both? Old Buckenham I have no experience of i'm afraid.

If you're wanting to go commercial I would recommend that you speak with an instructor (Simon) who works at several of the schools at Norwich and was asked to write several guides on the subject a short while ago. Give me a bell if thats something you'd like to do and I can probably arrange that.
Also we have several people at varying stage of their commercial careers from just starting out to actually in Airline employment you could speak to.

With regards to some of the comments regarding learning to fly at a larger airfield with full ATC or a smaller one, both have their merits but i would lean toward the larger. Its a bit like learning to drive in London.. after that anythings easier.

Some other things to consider;

Do not under any circumstances pay for ANYTHING bar a trial lesson in advance. Some schools may try and tempt you with a discount for paying up front, avoid for the following reasons.
1) It is impossible to price a PPL up for someone as some have done because the apptitude of students varies so much, anyone who says different is lying
2)Profit margins in flight training are tiny against huge costs, organisations offering discounts often need cash quickly and may (as in the case of my friend) not even be around to complete the training you have paid for. I CANNOT EMPHASIS THIS ENOUGH!

Some schools have a better reputation for teaching than others who concentrate on what I would call more the leisure market, often there is very little in the way of briefings and debriefings in an effort to get more flying hours out of the aircraft. 2 hours for a 1 hour slot is what you should be aiming for. Ask what you should expect.

Look for an established school lets face it if they weren't any good would they still be here?

Look at the facilities. You're going to need to do exams and radio tests does the school have the facility to do both? only one in Norfolk does.

Cost per hour on paper is not a very good comparison, value for money is very different. Meet the instructors you'd be having and see what you think. A good instructor can save you money even if they are a little more expensive per hour. Make sure prices are all inclusive. some add VAT.

I hope this helps somewhat anyway and whatever you decide I wish you luck.

Regards
David

PS Small B I presume that is Small Boy?

[Up and down]

Mark,
If Norwich Airport is only 5 minutes away that is a significant factor. Good luck with your PPL.

David,
You say only one school in Norfolk has facilities for exams and radio tests. Since I know from experience that Old Buck does, is that the one you meant?

Up and down

[freon1978]

A quick check confirms you're right. http://www.ukft.com/PDF/Worldwide%20Approved%20RT%20locations.pdf

Appologies, there are two schools in Norfolk with radio examiners. Norwich School of Flying (2 examiners) and Old Buckenham (1)

[daisy120]

Johnny 3 stars..yep, Northrepps/Cromer International would be a good bet if you want to keep the cost down with a NPPL. Great crowd and very relaxed. Catch a cloud/gordon Shaw is a flying training organisation, not a 'Flight' training school. Its all hands on and all about handling the a/c. Get your basics there and then hit NWI for the group A endorsement. Old Buck also a great strip with GH providing sterling training on good a/c(PA28). Shipdham will teach you how to fly gliders but at the mo, not powered a/c. BOL.!!

[freon1978]

Is anyone in contact with Ed Chapman, formerly (great) instructor at the Norwich School of Flying? I tried the lost and found section on this website but no success....

He became airline pilot at Manchester I was told and later incorporated into EZY but i never managed to get an email address...


Brian says he hasn't been in contact for a very long time and isn't sure whats he's up to now.

Also he remembered your name and said to say that he hopes you are well and still flying.

David

[markc80]

Just to let you all know - I had my 1st lesson with the Anglian Air School at Norwich Airport on Monday and it was amazing! Great people and very friendly atmosphere.

Apparently they think I'm picking things up very quickly - went from zero through to understanding the secondary effects of the flight controls and it all sunk in :) Just gotta work on my taxiing hehe

Thanks again to all of you who took the time to give your opinions

[freon1978]

Just to let you all know - I had my 1st lesson with the Anglian Air School at Norwich Airport on Monday and it was amazing! Great people and very friendly atmosphere.

Apparently they think I'm picking things up very quickly - went from zero through to understanding the secondary effects of the flight controls and it all sunk in http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif Just gotta work on my taxiing hehe

I'm literally in the office next door pop in and say hello next time you're in.

David

[Small B]

PS Small B I presume that is Small Boy?


Freon1978, yes it is. Is that Dave Holligwurth? I thought you would be with an airline by now, last time we talked you were putting in lots of applications. I will drop in and see you this week.

Your website says you are a family run business, I didn't know Brian was your Dad :}

[markc80]

Hi David,

Thanks for the invite, I'll pop over when I can

[vanHorck]

Brian says he hasn't been in contact for a very long time and isn't sure whats he's up to now.

Also he remembered your name and said to say that he hopes you are well and still flying.

David
this is a reply 11 years late… My apologies… Great that Brian remembered me! I went in to get my imc and multi rating and owned a Seneca IV reg GMAIK although i stopped flying years ago… never found Ed Chapman unfortunately…