C.A.F.U. Doves

[dave hardy]

Hi all
l was just hoping that someone here has photos or any imformation of the inside of the dove's operated by the M.T.C.A. , C.A.F.U. , C.A.A.
As a member of the East Midlands Aeropark l'm involved in the restoration of G-ANUW but the inside is empty there is a large bunch of cables at the rear with plugs on so there must have been a rack but there is no sign of it .
We would like to finish it in a dayglo scheme it wore when it flew in Scotland helping to map the area we know it was white upper, silver lower and a dark blue cheat line but we dont know the extent of the dayglo Orange that was used.
thank in advance
Dave

[Loki]

There`s one at Duxford, another at East Fortune, and I believe one at Wroughton.....wouldn`t someone in one of those places be able to help?

[Minesthechevy]

This might help, apologies if you're already aware of it.

DH.104 Dove 6 G-ANUW, ex-CAAFU (image preview: FOT415146) | fotoLibra (http://www.fotolibra.com/en-us/gallery/415146/dh104-dove-6-g-anuw-ex-caafu/)

[Sir George Cayley]

Bit of a long shot, but didn't Flight Precision at Teesside inherit CAAFU? And hence might have some archive material?

Sir George Cayley

[dave hardy]

Hi Loki
l have spoken to East Fortune and they say they cannot help as they are not allowed to go in it because of radiation and they don't believe they have any photo's on record as for the one at Duxford its up in the roof not the best of access l have tried to contact the Duxford Aviation Society as yet they have not got back to me. There was one at Caernarfon Air World
but that was scrapped a few years ago. As for the one at Wroughton l'll stand corrected but l believe its a Devon

dave

[Loki]

Radiation?

Blimey, I`ve flown in that one!!

[dave hardy]

Hi loki

l wouldn't worry to much its something thats been around for years but with health and saftey as it is today and the culture of were there's a blame there's a claim museum's are having to have checks done.
We had our's checked and the only problem we had was some circuit breakers by the second pilots leg so these have been removed and taken away for destruction and nothing that may be radio active can be fitted without a check being made

dave

[cleo]

Dave - you've never met Loki then?
Bit of the Zaphod Beeblebrox about him :E

[Sir George Cayley]

Would this thread be better in History & Nostalgia?

Radiation my arse! There's more in Radon gas and old luminous watch dials. I really do despair about the world today. Wimps all wimps.

SGC

[Atcham Tower]

Before the thread drifted, the idea was to find out if anyone in the early stages of their ATC career had maybe flown in and photographed a CAFU Dove. Trips in the back were common when doing radar approaches into Hurn under the direction of students. I did one when I was at the college but didn't take a camera.

[dave hardy]

Hi Atcham Towers
Thank's for your reminder to every one we are trying to restore an aircraft to as close as possable to its original finish. We have the colours she ended her service life in as she still wares them but so does East Fortunes and Duxfords what we are trying to do is keep it real but different thats why we are after the early scheme. It was put on this thread at what l believed to be a good idea by another, on other forums it is in historic, but its not getting many responces. Which is a shame if this was a military aircraft i'm sure there would be more interest, most museums have a large number of military aircraft but fail to preserve our civil heritage, we have nearly lost our aircraft industry we used to be high on this list lets help the kids know what we used to make.

Dave

[pulse1]

I flew several trips as observer in the Doves at Hurn just for the experience. Some had dual controls and I was allowed to do all the flying. Other times the righthand column was removed so I just had to sit there, keeping a look out.

Some of the exercises were more fun than others. The one I particularly liked was when we orbited above the radar head asking the student for headings for the ILS. One pilot I flew with was a retired BOAC captain and his balanced tight turns were really impressive.

On one trip the pilot designed his own unofficial exercise when he descended from the usual 5000' to about 200' over the sea. The student did not notice the height change and refused requests to climb until he was told that we would hit the flats on the West Cliff.

As far as I remember, most of the observers were cadets from the local ATC squadrons.

[chevvron]

During the APP/RAD course at Hurn, it was normal for the course to be split into groups of three(I think) two of whom would go to Hurn Tower to carry out 'live' training with the Dove, the third flying as 'safety pilot' in the right hand seat, the rest of the course would be on the simulators. We had all completed the PPL course, so were able to carry out some of the flying ourselves.
The Dove pilots would follow instructions from the trainee ATCO by the letter, hence if the aircraft was heading (say) 180 and you said 'turn left heading 185' instead of 'turn right heading 185', the pilot turned left, which wasn't much help to the trainee in the College of Air Training (ie Hamble) Baron which had been told to 'follow the Dove'!

[Loki]

Chevvron

I spent a few hours doing that in 1974....pretty sure this was one of them (at East Fortune now)

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k288/loki_021/GANOV.jpg

[qwerty2]

This thread brings back memories from my approach course in the early 70s.
Sitting next to the pilot orbiting the overhead , then diving down to sea level , and flying rubbish headings....all to test the trainee controller.
I don't remember much equipment down the back of our Dove ; my memory may be wrong but I seem to remember a few seats.
It's going back a long time but I vaguely remember that our aircraft was G-ALFT

[Air.Farce.1]

My late father in law used to fly G-ANUW. I will ask my wifes mother to send the old photos and copy them to you

G-ANUW

http://www.oldprops.ukhome.net/Dove%20G-ANUW%20d2.jpg

[chevvron]

I flew at least 3 trips in the right hand seat; (40 odd years ago so I may be wrong) and each time the 'fit' in the cabin was different, sometimes 6 seats, another one was two seats and one with no seats but some equipment racks.

[Loki]

I`m sure I remember a life raft lashed to the floor as well.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<One pilot I flew with was a retired BOAC captain and his balanced tight turns were really impressive.>>

That brings back memories. I flew as safety pilot several times during my APC/RAD course in late 1971. Usually it was with CAFU pilots but I also flew with a retired BOAC Stratocruiser pilot and he was amazing; handling the Dove so incredibly smoothly. He synchronised the engines to perfection whereas the "Minair" bloke didn't bother, resulting in horrific noise and vibration.

One Friday morning we took off and after about an hour some stratus rolled in and Hurn went Harry Clampers. Panic ensued with the Minair guy wondering where to divert to. I was a bit alarmed when he decided on Manchester as I wanted to go home that afternoon. I asked if Boscombe Down was OK... he called them and they accepted us. We did a PAR down to very low level and eventually saw the lights. A very hairy day for me as I was NOT a pilot. (Only beaten by my brief meeting with Wyn Hudson!).

[Hyperborean]

You obviously followed me by a few months HD. I did my APC/RAD in the spring of 71. At that time the for initial practical training on the Sim for some reason there was no simulated D/F. As a result the blip drivers would end every call with a QDM until such time as the student advised them that they were identified. Come the day for our first "live" runs we trooped over to the tower and I was detailed to take the first slot in the Dove. Off we went round the back of the Isle of Wight where we we were transferred to the student frequency. The conversation went somewhat as follows :-
"Radar this is GALFU."
"GALFU Radar what is your QDM?"
"Radar GFU, Say again!"
"GFU Radar what is your QDM?"
All this not helped by the fact my colleague was an overseas student with a fairly pronounced accent. At this point the pilot turned to me and somewhat pointedly said, "I thought he was supposed to tell me that!" I can only imagine the frantic pointing at the D/F display that was taking place down below.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Hahahahaha..... great story!!

We were sitting in the approach room one day, each waiting our turns to be mucked around by the Dove, when the Tower rang - "Anyone fancy doing an SRA with XXX (callsign eludes me). Instructors asked for a volunteer and I noticed the other students had either disappeared, or developed 24hr laryngitis.... so I said "Yes, I'll do it". Once XXX called me, they let me in on the secret - it was a Scimitar that goes down the approach at 240kts. I've never spoken so fast in my life. At least the bloke walked away from it!!

In case anyone remembers me:

Brendan McCartney

[2 sheds]

Bren..

"Airwork 23" (or similar personal number).

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2051/2187375975_4cde1f7af5.jpg

Fleet Requirement Unit, Hurn - 1969

2 s

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

2 sheds.... Probably!!! I've spent the last ten minutes sticking pins in that picture!

Saw something almost as amusing at Heathrow l-o-n-g ago. Geoff Coates had a trainee and asked a Green Machine to do a practice SRA. It went ever so badly wrong and they asked the captain to ring in to apologise to him. He rang in and said when they heard it was for practice, each time they got a heading change they added 10 kts to the speed! Oh happy days...

I was slightly involved with CAFU Doves back in the 60s, when I was a lowly clerk in MoA Tels. The office where I worked was involved in formulating the spec for Cat III ILS and a major problem they had was evolving some method of flight checking the installations. Eventually a device known as a telecroscope was installed on a CAFU Dove. It's way too long ago for me to remember much but it involved rotating mirrors. I'm having lunch with a retired Heathrow Tels man today so will grill him about it....

[Talkdownman]

I, too, flew several sorties on the Dove, handling too (except in the one without the yoke when 'You have control' took on a whole new meaning....). It provided the opportunity for the captain to refill his pipe, or to empty its 'dottle' out of the DV window. One trick was to ask for a QDM whilst standing on the wingtip in the D/F overhead. The other was to go and hide down behind Hengistbury Head and ask for radar pickup. Response to level instructions were often simulated whilst maintaining an 'actual' level allocated by Hurn Approach. 'Actual' and 'Simulated' became ripe for confusion of which there was plenty, and I recall at least one close shave with a Baron in the hold. It became particularly confusing when changing from flat SRAs to actual PAR approaches when there was a parallel PAR course on. As has been said, the pilots did exactly as they were told by the students until the ATC instructors stepped in to save the situation. The exercises were communicated from instructor to pilot i.a.w. a list not known to the student eg. "Uniform Whiskey, Instructor, Exercise 5b now please, maintain the Five Zero and simulate all level changes." " But we have been at six zero....." Skippers I flew with were Whittaker, Hawkes, Henn, Burman and Woodman on 'NUU, 'NUW, 'NAP and 'LFU. Some of the ATC Instructors on my APCR course in Jan '69 were 'Nunky' Kearl, Billy Boyes and 'Precious Pup'. Great fun all round.... and tremendous experience!

[dave hardy]

Hi AIR FARCE 1
The photo's sound just like what l'm looking for it does not end with the restoration of the aircraft. But to record also its history, its Pilots, its sudents, it roles over the years, all would be nice to record for histories sake. When people visit the museum they ask all sorts of questions and it would be nice to have the answers.

from what l can tell UNIFORM WISKEY had two seats in the cabin both forward of the wing spar there is a rail for a curtain around the toilet but was a toilet fitted.By the way the paint finishes at the rear of the cabin thebulkhead must have been fitted but there is no bulkhead.
There is no door to the cockpit but you can see a keep in the frame,was the door normally fitted.
Did it carry its own steps if so were were they stowed

[windowjob]

Well remember the "green one" doing that on another occasion, only problem was he started adding speed on the initial vectors so it was well out of hand before I could transfer him to the u/t director!
Also remember flying in the Dove. One trick was to go behind the Isle of Wight then down to the deck and call up. Poor sod on radar couldn't work out why he couldn't identify you as you hid.
Similar to Bren was a request for volunteer to do an SRA whilst at HH/College and after most of it was done and "your height should be.." the reply was "oops a bit low going back" - Bloody Harrier.
Happy days