Becoming an ATCO

[hammerthrower]

Hi there, I'm 16 and still at school in the UK. I have had my heart set on becoming an ATCO for a good few years now and am now weighing up my options. The obvious option is NATS which I will be my first option. I also have been looking into options abroad in Austria or South Africa/Canada/Australia and also Eurocontrol. I was speaking to a careers advisor from NATS recently at a careers fare in Glasgow who said lots of talented 18/19 year olds come in with little life experiance and begin to doubt their ability after critisism from peers/mentors. So I am wondering what you all think and if a Bsc in Aerospace Systems at University would be benificial. I would be 22 - 23 once applying to NATS - so do you think this is the best option or any other idea's? It would be much appreciated!

Cheers!

[niknak]

I don't work for NATS, but they provide excellent training and the career structure gives you plenty of options once qualified and the chance to earn some very decent cash.
I don't know much about Eurocontrol but don't forget with NATS you can do Aerodrome/Approach or Area Control, whereas with Eurocontrol you can only do Area Control.

You've clearly done some homework, but I would strongly recommend doing your degree then apply to whichever you think is best for you.
University experience, a degree in anything Aerospace and being that little bit older and more mature will give you a much better chance of coping with the pressures of the courses.
After working your nuts off through Uni the prospect of spending another 18 months or so training may not be everyone's cup of tea and be under no illusion that it is bloody hard work, but well worth it.

With an aerospace degree you can always do something else if you don't like being an ATCO, without it you'll be in a far weaker position.

Best of luck to you.

[rotatejunkie]

IMHO, i have gone through the training program, and it has nothing to do with education. It is all a matter of whether u were born to do the job. From where i come from, the minimum education required is GCE 'A' levels. And my cohort had 3 graduates from various backgrounds. The graduates breezed through the initial, then secondary stages. But they all fell out of favour when it was time for OJT, On the Job Training. The 'A' level bloke then breezed through the OJT, like he was meant for it....

The graduates dropped out of the course, and left the Authority.
Your degree in Av systems shows that you have the mental capacity to take on complex thinking and processing. Its really all about multi-tasking, and whether you have your eye on the ball the entire time. The trainer will try to divert your attention, thats the fun bit. I feel it has alot to do with how your neurons are connected.

Hey give it a shot, you never know what might happen...
Remember---Its a dynamic environment--- it cant be emphasised enough.
Cheers and best of luck! :ok:

[Scooby Don't]

Despite the number of ATCOs of the old school who think of the job as blue-collar and regard graduates as having no common sense, the simple fact is that it's becoming more and more a graduate profession. A degree may not be particularly helpful in the early stages of an ATC career, but if you hope one day to climb the greasy pole (the old salts won't like that either; ignore them!) it's likely to be more helpful than not.

A degree in aeronautical systems/engineering or the like may be useful in recruitment terms (it is evidence of a genuine interest in aviation), but only marginally. A PPL would also display that interest, as would a history of visiting towers and centres. My advice would be to undertake whatever degree subject most interests you, and if it happens to open up a fall-back position then so much the better. If aeronautical systems is that subject, go for it.

As for where to apply, NATS and Eurocontrol are the obvious ones. To apply to Nav Canada, ATNS or Airservices Australia for ab-initio training, you'll need to already have the right to live and work in Canada/SA/Aus before starting training. The number of South African controllers living and working elsewhere, the Middle East in particular, would suggest that SA is not the place to be anyway! From what I've gathered, ATCO salaries in SA might get you a decent standard of living but are still low in international terms. Crime is a huge issue in SA, and if you have kids in the future you may need to find the money for private education. Industrial relations are not good, from what I've heard. Nav Canada salaries are pretty decent, and will generally give a better standard of living than the UK thanks to lower living costs, though Canadians get less leave than Brits and some centres and towers rely heavily on overtime. Australia has significant industrial relations issues (try a search on this forum), and both Aus and SA tax the **** out of the standard ATCO toy, the nice imported car... The Commonwealth countries no longer give any preference to immigration from the UK, so frankly it's likely to be a non-starter anyway to consider those countries unless you have parents/siblings already there.

In summation, a degree is likely to be helpful, and there's nothing to stop you applying to NATS/Eurocontrol while still at university. Be realistic in your options (as in, if you want to be overseas it may have to become a long-term goal) and keep a Plan B open in view of the high failure rate in ATCO training.

Good luck! :ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<IMHO, I have gone through the training program, and it has nothing to do with education. It is all a matter of whether u were born to do the job.>>

Allelujah.... If only those responsible for recruiting would understand that!!

<<but if you hope one day to climb the greasy pole (the old salts won't like that either; ignore them!) it's >>

But, Scooby, it all depends if one wants to climb the pole. I certainly did not, nor did many of my colleagues. We went into ATC because we loved the operational task. If you want to do that for a while, then spend all your life as an office clerk then so be it, but don't crticise those who keep the machine running!

[Scooby Don't]

HD - it's not a criticism! I'm pointing that one should not be criticised if one wants to be a manager at some point. Plenty of us, myself included, are journeymen controllers who love the job and take pride in it. There are also plenty who wonder if they really want to still be at coalface at 50 or older....

[WithTheFlash]

I was 19 when I started out at the college with NATS. Although the majority of people starting out are in there 20's, starting out earlier will not hold you back. Remember though that unfortunately not all of our trainees make it through the training system and it may be worth considering if a degree may be useful for your future employment if you were one of the unlucky ones that don't make it. Your education, like already said no mater what the degree is in, will however not make any difference to your ability to succeed in the job. Best of luck whatever you choose to do.

WTF

[Vercingetorix]

Scooby Don't:
Despite the number of ATCOs of the old school who think of the job as blue-collar and regard graduates as having no common sense, the simple fact is that it's becoming more and more a graduate profession

What a sad pretentious judgemental comment, however the rest of your post makes good sense.

Cheers:ok::ok:

[Scooby Don't]

Verci, that line is largely a statement of fact (the majority of new entrants to NATS are now graduates), and the remainder is based on personal experience. My first watch manager, for example, had no time for graduates.

Rather than insulting me, would you mind going back to your, highly entertaining, insults directed at a certain Danish chap?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I was taken aback at Scooby's comment too. Far from being "blue collar" workers, when I joined the vast majority of us were smartly dressed, many wearing suits and ties to work. Contrast that with some I worked with in my last years at West Drayton - scruffy individuals coming to work with their knees hanging out of their jeans!!! Were they really professional "white collar workers"?

Air Traffic Control is a great "leveller". I possess just 2 GCE O levels but have worked alongside ex-RAF officers, failed pilots and graduates. Made no difference - we were all equal in the job. I have no problem with graduates - one of our sons has a degree - but please understand that having a degree will probably have no bearing on whether you finally obtain a licence and validation(s).

[Hyperborean]

HD gets it pretty right for how it was. I have a few more GCEs than him but still only O Levels and I don't think that made much difference to my ability. As for management, I tried it it for a few years and considered myself lucky to get back to full time controlling without losing out. As for how it is now, a degree will help in getting you into the recruitment process ( maybe some of us oldies disagree but that is how things are structured ), it will also provide a plan B if you don't make it through training and it is important to remember that the recruiters still haven't cracked the aptitude testing so the drop out rate is fairly high. IMHO the main predictors for success are aptitude, about which you can do nothing, and motivation. In other words if you can't do the job, and some people simply can't, then all the qualifications on earth won't help but if you have the basic aptitude then sheer determination will see you through. Regarding where to train, I baled out of NATS half way through my career but I do think they provide the best training even now when they have cut things to the bone. As far as industrial relations go, these things tend to be cyclical in my time I saw good and bad periods both with NATs and with other employers.
In short my advice is go for it, it remains a good career if you have the aptitude, I did 42 years and don't regret any of the ATCOing.

[Scooby Don't]

HD and Verci - by "blue collar", I referred to an attitude, not a mode of dress! ATCOs in the UK are (mostly) union members, and the recruitment pool used to be school leavers rather than graduates.

For those joining today, ATC may well be an alternative to law, accountancy or engineering, which was not the case in, say, the 1960s and 1970s. Perhaps "blue collar" was the wrong term, and if so I apologise. However, my point about the attitudes of some of the old salts is valid.

[mr.777]

Contrast that with some I worked with in my last years at West Drayton - scruffy individuals coming to work with their knees hanging out of their jeans!!!

Nothing has changed HD. TC dress code dictates that when the temperature gets into double figures, we are required to wear shorts and flip flops. :}

[Vercingetorix]

Scooby Don't
Will do, glad you like the other posts.
As a side note most of the ATCOs in my early life were ex RAF pilots (both bomber and fighter), navigators plus the odd ex navy pilot or two. Those who joined ab initio were either direct entry with 2 A levels and hence on to a cadet course. (At that time the university acceptance being 2 A levels for the majority of courses) or as ATCAs (5 O levels as per RAF Officer selection requirement) on the promise of being put on a cadet course after two years in the job.
Not quite blue collar but I understand what you mean by your reference. There are some dull bu**ers around.

Cheers

P.S. In the '60s the annual student volume was approx 300,000 peeps whereas now it is over the million so the recruitment pool is larger.:ok:

[ATCOmladitch]

Hammer,

Go with the degree option, NATS will wait and you might change your mind in the coming years. 16 is just too young to be making huge decisions.
I beleive the Degree wont do you any harm and you will then approach a career decision from a more mature posititon. i follwoed a similar path and have no regrets.
Otherwise, if you are looking for unsociable hours and low pay, go for it:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<if you are looking for unsociable hours and low pay>>

He is surely joking? Pay in NATS is very good and the amount of time off is excellent. Now wait for some whinger to tear me apart!!

[chevvron]

I too thought NATS pay was good until I saw the thread about Spanish ATCO salaries!! But then we get more (I believe) than ATCOs in the USA.

[On the beach]

Hammerthrower

It's good to see someone of your age looking towards a career in ATC. If you haven't already done so I would strongly urge you to visit ATC at Glasgow Airport and also go down to Ayr and visit the Scottish Air Traffic Control Centre. I would also encourage you to stay with your idea of going to university. The job of ATC is becoming more and more technical and specialised as traffic levels increase and if you have a degree in Aerospace Systems and are a fully trained ATCO then the world will be your oyster.

I first wanted to become an ATCO at about your age after a visit to the Southern Air Traffic Control Centre at Heathrow many years ago, but didn't get the opportunity to become an ATCO until I was 23 and that was in Australia.

Follow your dream and all the best with achieving it. Let us know how you get on.

[radar information]

Don't think that a degree is beneficial. I know plenty of controllers who haven't got a degree and they're doing just fine. IF you go to uni you are going to end up with debt. Apply before leaving school and if you make it through, you'll be an ATCO with the world at your feet so to speak. If you don't make it then you can try uni.

[Vercingetorix]

hammerthrower
a degree is useful provided it is in one of the 'Hard Sciences', i.e not origami or sociology, as the training incurred in such study will help you assimilate the mundane, but necessary, tasks of study of the ANO, Met, Nav, etc.
It will not help when it comes to the practicality of doing ATC which can best be defined as more of an art than a science. Some have it and some don't.
If you're good at video games you are in with a chance.

You can train a monkey to do ATC (believe me, I have) and it will perform well under normal situations but when things go 'tits up' that's when you want someone who can think on the move.

Best of luck.

Cheers:ok:

P.S. I note that you are in Scotland where you can enter University at a younger age than in England so why not go for the Uni and apply for NATS at the same time. A Win Win situation.:cool:

[hammerthrower]

Cheers! Thanks for all that! I'm just about to sit my Highers (A levels) and intend on going back to school for another year. I think I will go for Uni and once I turn 18 apply to NATS. If I make it though i'll more than likley drop uni, or whatever is the best option. As for Eurocontrol, I am looking to become an Area Controller, Idealy at Prestwick but I am up a move to the Netherlands. I have visited Edinburgh tower and am in the process of organising a visit to Prestwick Center. Anymore advice will be much appreciated but thanks for all the help!!!

HammerThrower

(As for the name I am a Hammer thrower as in the Athletic event)

[WhatMeanPullUp]

I wish you all the best young man in your pursuit to become an Air Traffic Controller but my tuppence worth is a degree will not make you an ATCO. I went through NATS 20 years ago and most of the students with degrees failed the course/OJTI. They assumed that the 'college' was just like Uni, pissing it up against the wall every night and cramming before an exam, it does not work. Of course you need an ability to do the job but if you have that and serious determination you will make it. Good luck! :ok:

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

pissing it up against the wall every night and cramming before an exam, it does not work.

It worked on my course :ok:

[Vortex Issues]

It worked on my course

I concur :}

[WhatMeanPullUp]

You guys are obviously special ;) most of the Uni graduates on my course failed miserably, perhaps you are just a different breed from them, you are not aliens are you??? :ok:

[niknak]

but my tuppence worth is a degree will not make you an ATCO.

Concur, but a degree will help you get a decent job if you ever have to something other than controlling.
Depending what class of planet you come from, being an alien is an added advantage.:p

[hammerthrower]

Just wondering if anyone is or know how to become an ATCO at a non NATS airport such as Prestwick or Newcastle? I'm just wondering who provides the ATC service and how you go about working for them? NATS ofcourse seem's the obvious choice though, but just looking at other options.


Cheers

[patto118]

This is my first time posting i have recently applied for nats and am looking for some advice about the first selection of tests that i have to take. Are they difficult, what type of questions are going to be on the test etc. any advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

[loubylou]

Nothing wrong with knowing what you want to do at an early age - I chose ATC as my career when I was 14 and joined at 19 ( the age limit then) with no degree.
The advantage is that you have no debt and a long career ahead if you're successful , the disadvantage is listening to all your pals at uni going on about about how much fun and booze they're inbibing while you're swotting first at the college, then at your final unit training!
Go for it - if it doesn't work out, then still go to uni , and reapply

ScoobyDon't, I think that you used to need a degree in the 60's and 70's unless you had previous experience. It was only in the 80's it was dropped to having passed 2 A levels then in the late 80's was downgraded to only needing to have studied 2 A levels.

Patto118 - use all available clues and your initiative dear - check out the "sticky" threads:ugh:

louby

[CJShields]

I think some of you are missing the point. It's not about the degree, it's about the life experience University brings. I think you should definitely attend University first, I feel you may regret it later if you don't.

[chevvron]

In my personal experience including 30 years providing OJT, I found students with degrees the worst types to attempt to train; they had an 'attitude' problem of not accepting anything the mentor said, claiming that 'at the college we were told xxxxxxx etc'. I got fed up of saying 'this ain't the college, welcome to the REAL world' and gave up OJT.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

You echo my feelings, T.

[Talkdownman]

In my experience street-wise spotters straight from school with a bit of maths and physics were the easiest. Those with an 'A'-level scrape or two in a maths and/or a science usually meant that they were self distracting seventy percenters which often meant they had a great spare capacity and greater ability to scan and rapidly resolve. Plus they just got stuck in and seemed to enjoy the learning.

I found u/ts (and I've had a few....) with any sort of further ed very hard work. One doesn't need to be very clever to do air traffic. The decision-making is very binary!

[chevvron]

Us three sound like 'Grumpy Old ATCOs' maybe we should do a TV series.