'Ice PIlots' - Quest Channel [Archive]

Flugplatz

22nd Apr 2010, 20:51

Hi there,

Anyone check out that new series on the satellite TV channel Quest, called 'Ice Pilots'? All about flying classic old vintage working propliners at Buffalo Air (based in Canada's North West Territories). They are flying DC3s, C46 'Commando' (didn't know there were any still flying!) and DC4. A great show and great for morale; reminds us all there is more to flying than just waiting for the hiring-man at JetLiner Inc. to pick your CV out of the pile of 500 similar wannabes.

I think this show is going to be on at 9pm every Thursday. Enjoy!

Flug

punk666

22nd Apr 2010, 21:06

I've just finished watching it, this is show is simply amazing!!

Thats true flying right there, I have considered dropping the airline idea and do something like that instead.

Pilot Positive

22nd Apr 2010, 21:53

Yeah, it was good and it was better than what they had on sky3 :} Especially liked watching the engine shut down drill and also their crisis management with regards to the DC3 going tech just prior to departure.

It takes balls of steel to land on runways of ice.... :ok:

theredbarron

23rd Apr 2010, 14:58

Came across it by chance and very glad I did. Magic stuff.

PS Groundloop : You are obviously not up on your historic aircraft: C46s, C47s and DC4s ARE history AND nostalgia

Pilot Positive

23rd Apr 2010, 19:23

Its on again tonight as well...more lovely aviation histroy :)

Piltdown Man

23rd Apr 2010, 22:56

I saw a few minutes tonight. Either poor management, poor editing or poor piloting or all three.

PM

Pilot Positive

24th Apr 2010, 10:29

I saw the adverts just prior to it starting and then promptly fell asleep. :{ This flying lark is catching up with me.... :uhoh:

stepwilk

25th Apr 2010, 17:55

Anybody know when it's coming to U. S. TV? It's been on in Canada, but all we 'Murricans can see on the web are trailers for the various episodes.

Say again s l o w l y

30th Apr 2010, 22:06

I've been watching it. All I'll say is that it is seriously scary from a professional point of view.

Rory57

1st May 2010, 10:40

Watching this begs the question "is there really no modern aircraft that Buffalo could use instead?" Is it simply financially impossible to use modern aircraft or are they not operationally flexible enough?
There have been several attempts at producing a "DC3 replacement", what came closest, Caribou, Skyvan, AN2; any others? Bristol Freighter?
Could anything modern be made as endlessly repairable as a DC3 or has that opportunity been lost to regulations? (If it can be done, I bet it has a pair of PT6s)

magpienja

3rd May 2010, 10:14

Rory57 must admit I was thinking the same thing, glad they haven't really or they would not be still flying, but considering the cost of AVGAS over jet fuel how can these piston aircraft make sense,

Or is it the cost of overhauling a turbo prop engine that stops it, the HS 748 springs to mind as a DC-3 replacement,

Long may the old prop liners live on.

Nick.

ECAM_Actions

3rd May 2010, 12:11

The only thing I can think of is that parts are cheaper for these birds than modern aircraft.

Would modern aircraft really survive the hell these things go through? These are built like tanks; modern aircraft quite simply aren't.

If there was ever an argument for over-engineering, this must be it.

ECAM Actions.

jcgooch

4th May 2010, 17:59

Well after a long time of lurking time to dip a toe into the water of posting so to speak, Rory, reference the thought of turbo propping a DC3 try googling the Basler Turbo-67 they already did it ! and funnily enough yup you guessed it PT6's!
Did see the program hard to miss it really after the blanket saturation of the adverts on Quest for it, but great TV all the same, OK some of the maintenance and practices made me wince a bit but hey they are doing the job and still flying so they cant be doing it too badly now can they!
I can only think really that the main reasoning behind still operating that vintage of aircraft is as mentioned in other posts cost of spares and aircraft inherent robustness, being involved in the maintenance world of some elderly aircraft myself although not of that vintage i have to say, very often they can keep on going and remain economically viable to a small niche operator like Buffalo long after conventional wisdom would say otherwise, after all if you are getting a lot of your spares from breakers or your own older parted out aircraft they will usually be cheaper than in service types of today, so looking forward to seeing the next episodes.

tspark

5th May 2010, 12:05

If you look on their (Buffalo) website there's an 'aircraft wanted' section. You'll see they're looking/in the market for a South African Airforce spec turboprop DC3 conversion rather than a Basler conversion!

Wanted & For Sale | Buffalo Airways (http://www.buffaloairways.com/wanted-sale)

forget

8th May 2010, 12:19

There's an old romantic lurking in the Buffalo hangars. See that one of the C-46s has the Lufthansa Stork on the nose - just as it had on first delivery. Love it :ok:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/luft.jpg

Pilot Positive

8th May 2010, 15:14

I love the livery..its in fantastic condition. :) Do they ever fly it or just canibalise it for spare parts??

forget

8th May 2010, 15:47

Errr, neither, in those colours. The photograph is of Buffalo's aircraft when it was with Lufthansa. All that's left of the paint scheme is the Lufthansa stork.

History. N9891Z (cn 33242) Previously served with Capitol Airways, Lufthansa and Trans Continental Airlines. Re-registered C-FAVO by Northland Air Manitoba in 1987 before moving to Buffalo Airways in 1994.

Pilot Positive

8th May 2010, 16:13

:hmm: Thought it was in too good a condition. It didnt look very cold on the ramp either... :8

JEM60

9th May 2010, 18:57

MAGPIENJA.
Just watched what must have been the 2nd programme. Great to watch. I noticed that in the background was a Lockheed Electra in Buffalo colours on one shot, so perhaps they do fly more modern equipment, but the TV prog is focused on the props. Nice to see.:)

magpienja

9th May 2010, 20:09

Hi JEM60 yes your right, in fact I have downloaded the whole series from the net only watched the first 3 and yes they do use it but he did comment on its fuel use, strange as I thought jet fuel had very little duty.

Nick.

ehwatezedoing

10th May 2010, 17:58

There is a parking area in Yellowknife that's called "Joerassic Park"

I'll let you guess why :}

Corax

29th Jun 2010, 16:34

twochai

29th Jun 2010, 17:50

The answer to "is there a replacement aircraft for the DC3?", is Joe McBryan doesn't give a sh*t, he doesn't want to replace them. He hates jets and it has taken years and years for his son an friends to even convince him to look at turboprops. Even then, they go out and buy what are considered old equipment like the Electra.

Sounds like the same business model followed by Reeve Aleutian Airways' Bob Reeves, 25 years later. Reeve eventually went out of business in 2000, RIP.

The capital cost of new equipment is the main impediment to any frontier operator, who cannot get the consistent utilisation to amortize the investment required for 'modern' aircraft. Boom and bust resource based economies, ball-busting weather and not enough good people prepared to work and raise a family in such a challenging environment are just some of the distractions.

Finding a replacement for life expired, gravel kitted B732's is almost impossible today. I believe Boeing charges around $750k just to authorize the transfer of the gravel kit hardware and documentation from one old used 732 to another, only slightly less old aircraft! And, of course, the market is too small to justify the manufacturer certifying a new aircraft for gravel operations.

I truly hope Buffalo Joe thrives and survives for many more years, he deserves every success.

magpienja

29th Jun 2010, 18:24

Its very refreshing to see that guys like Joe are still going and not been crushed by modern day nonsense and bulls##te, keep up the good work JOE.

Nick.

Marp

30th Jun 2010, 10:38

Yeah, I'm translating it into French for the TV over here.

If it wasn't for the help from the guys (and gals?)on this forum, I'd still be on page 1!

Good nostalgia though!

Entaxei

2nd Jul 2010, 22:26

Have not seen this programme - yet - but now intend to very shortly - am currently reading a paperback 'The Flying North' by Jean Potter, subtitled 'The classic history of the Alaskan bush pilots.' Appears to be originally copyrighted in 1947 and also produced in the 70's and 80's, this lists the stories of the lone pilots that established flying in Alaska in the 20s and 30's - if you can find a copy its well worth getting, incredible characters. :ok:

hurn

2nd Jul 2010, 22:57

Been watching this programme for the past few weeks. It's great to see the old aircraft still being used; in some ways I'd love to work there but I doubt I could stand the snow and freezing temperatures they endure out there for so long. :uhoh:

Incidentally, if you have 'Freeview' through your tv ariel, the show is on Quest, channel 38 every Thurs at 9pm and repeated on Fri at 10pm. It wont cost you a bean and is well worth a watch imo. :D

VictorGolf

3rd Jul 2010, 10:05

Avitor

3rd Jul 2010, 10:21

Did anybody see last night's edition in which the Turkish pilot did a "wheels-up" landing in the CL 215 water-bomber and ran the keel down the runway at Izmir?
When he realised he went around and put the wheels down for a successful landing. Phew! I wonder how they sorted that one out with the insurance company?

Yes, I saw it. As far as I am concerned, it is a show not to be missed. Perhaps a very pistol might have come in handy during the wheels up touchdown? :}. The engine oil leak looked a little terminal but a manly decision by the Captain!
I noted they found a third water bearing replacement aircraft to send to Turkey.
Did someone mention flying by the seat of one's pants! Tough blokes at Buffalo!

forget

3rd Jul 2010, 11:06

the Turkish pilot did a "wheels-up" landing in the CL 215

Turkish pilot? Wasn't there an (ex) Buffalo instructor in the right hand seat?

VictorGolf

3rd Jul 2010, 11:37

Unfortunately I didn't tape it but I got the impression that the Buffalo guys had handed the aircraft over for the Turks first "solo". Certainly the Buffalo "head honcho" was watching the performance from the ground.

JEM60

3rd Jul 2010, 11:59

Does nobody in the tower look out of the window at landing aircraft these days. Simple solution, surely. Always used to happen!!.

forget

3rd Jul 2010, 12:01

ehwatezedoing

3rd Jul 2010, 17:43

CADOR 2009C0944 (http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/cadors-screaq/rpt.aspx?lang=eng&rptcads=2009C0944&cads=&cadorsno=2009C0944&regcd=0&occdtefrom=&occdteto=2010-07-03&occtypecd=0&fatop=%3E=&fatal=0&aeroidtxt=&aeroidcd=&loc=&provcd=0&accatcd=0&acoptxt=&acopcd=&acmaketxt=&acmakecd=&acmodeltxt=&acmodelcd=&evnts=&evtype=0&narr=)

The Buffalo Airways amphibious CL-215, Canadian registration C-FTXB, was being used for pilot training at Izmir, Turkey. During a landing at the airport, the landing gear was not selected down and the aircraft’s centre keel made contact with the runway before the landing was aborted and a go around was successfully carried out. The aircraft returned to the airport and landed uneventfully with the landing gear down and locked. A post-occurrence inspection revealed slice-through damage to the center keel beam consistent with ground contact. The damage on the center keel starts approximately 3-4 feet forward of the water drop doors and widens in the aft direction (in a tapered shape) to approximately 10 inches from each side of the keel. There was damage to the ribs and structural members inside the hull.

Props

5th Jul 2010, 12:28

Its my Friday Night treat to watch these guys, but I am afraid Iam too old to be a Rampie

Evanelpus

5th Jul 2010, 16:01

Its my Friday Night treat to watch these guys, but I am afraid Iam too old to be a Rampie

Hey Props, you can catch it 24hrs earlier if you want. It's on Thursdays nights on Quest, 10pm me thinks, anyway it's the episode you would watch on Friday. Just thought I'd let you know.

Liffy 1M

6th Jul 2010, 22:09

Buffalo guys had handed the aircraft over for the Turks first "solo".

If that was the case then title and insurance would have passed to the Turks and Buffalo would be fireproof. As it was an awful lot was made of 'we've done a wheels up' rather than 'they've done a wheels up'.

I thought the programme was a bit circumspect about who was flying and what led to the "scrape-and-go". The impression was given that it was a Turkish-only crew but for "diplomatic" reasons Buffalo may not have wanted that to be made too explicit. No doubt there would have been at least one official investigation into the event (involving a Canadian-registered (and owned?) aircraft being flown by Turkish military personnel) so who knows whether there may still be some wrangling going on over who should have done what.

F24

8th Jul 2010, 19:23

Buffalo Airways DC-3 Pre-Oshkosh Video-
http://www.eaa.org/video/eaa.html?videoId=110918534001 (http://www.eaa.org/video/eaa.html?videoId=110918534001)
They’re flying 2 down, 1 for the PAX, 1 for the camping gear!

Boy, that’s doing Oshkosh in style!

Ridge Runner

9th Jul 2010, 06:50

Its my Friday Night treat to watch these guys

Thursday 09:00 BST on Sky154 (Quest). I saw it for the first time last night ...... nice!!!! I'm off to Yellowknife!!!!

RR

Bluey Snuttzov

9th Jul 2010, 08:15

I saw it for the first time last night ...... nice!!!! I'm off to Yellowknife!!!!Nice agreed RR - but you should perhaps watch a few more episodes of the fun life of a Buffalo Rampy first :ok:

Evanelpus

9th Jul 2010, 09:24

Trouble at mill last night. Kelly's husband, the Electra FE, quit.

My money is on Kelly quitting in next weeks episode.

hurn

9th Jul 2010, 15:23

Yes, saw that last night and I couldn't help thinking that Buffalo Joe is a bit of an ar$:mad:ole to work for tbh.

Say again s l o w l y

9th Jul 2010, 15:45

Yep. He's got all of the man management skills of David Brent, but with the temper of Genghis Khan thrown in.

I know the show is cut to show certain things, but even given that, he comes across as a complete muppet. It's a shame really, given the people he has working for him. The dedication shown by most of the staff there is astounding. "Buffalo" Joe doesn't seem to deserve that loyalty.

Liffy 1M

10th Jul 2010, 06:19

Yes, saw that last night and I couldn't help thinking that Buffalo Joe is a bit of an ar$ole to work for tbh.

Yep. He's got all of the man management skills of David Brent, but with the temper of Genghis Khan thrown in.

I know the show is cut to show certain things, but even given that, he comes across as a complete muppet. It's a shame really, given the people he has working for him. The dedication shown by most of the staff there is astounding. "Buffalo" Joe doesn't seem to deserve that loyalty.

This is a TV show made as entertainment and the content is so heavily edited that it's impossible to know, or make a judgement about, the people and factors involved in any particular event. The makers select "heroes" and "villains" all the time to generate interest among the viewers. They also, I suspect, portray as simultaneous events which are not occurring at the same time (the "meanwhile, back in Yellowknife", scenario). It's an enjoyable show for the aviation content but I'm sure there is an awful lot more going on than the viewer ever gets to see.