My unauthorised departure

[SarahJS]

Hello,

I would be grateful for some comment and advice from ATC on a recent incident.

The situation is that I am a not very experienced (800 hours) copilot on a regional commuter. We were departing from a familiar airfield. We arrived at the holding point, we completed the pre take-off checklist "down to the line", I checked that the approach was clear, and called "ready for departure".

The ground controller then gave his authorisation instruction, but then at the end of the authorisation, added "and give my greetings to xxxx" (xxxx being the first name of the captain).

I realise in retrospect that this unexpected personal greeting triggered a series of rapid thoughts in my brain along the lines of - "oh, the controller must be a friend of the captain, how on earth do they know each other, what a surprising situation, and how do I reply to this?" I also looked over at the captain to see his reaction (he did not show any reaction). My attention was focused on how to reply to the personal greeting, rather than concentrating on the authorisation instruction. I then collated the authorisation parrot fashion, and not wishing to appear rude or aloof, I added "and xxx returns his greetings" or something similar. My collation of the authorisation must have been correct, as the ground controller did not correct me.

We then lined up, and the captain requested me to read the checklist "after the line", which includes the check that we have departure clearance. I replied that we did. In fact, we must only have had line up clearance, as just after take off the controller called us to inform us of our error.

I think a contributory factor to my mistake was that the airfield was extremely quiet due to closure of the FIR just to the north of us, and so sub-consciously I was expecting an immediate departure.

ATC subsequently rang my company ops to report the incident, and so I am worried!

I would be grateful for any comments or advice.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<The ground controller then gave his authorisation instruction,>>

That's baffling to a controller because there are Ground and Air controllers at busy airports. At smaller places it maybe one person so it might be best to refer to him as "ATC" or "the Tower".

"Authorisation instruction" I don't fully understand. Do you mean he cleared you to line-up?

If you have to write a report I suggest something like: "ATC cleared us to line up and passed his regards to the captain".

If a report was filed the investigators will want to determine why it happened and not necessarily to blame someone. I don't know how pilots note the various instructions they are given. In ATC everything is written down, or some definite action is taken as an aide memoire so that should a controller become incapacitated, everyone will know precisely what actions he has taken. Do you not have a nav sheet where you could make a distinct mark to show that a) you had been cleared to line up and b) cleared for take-off.... or is it all in your head?

Fortunately there was no incident, but something similar happened in Tenerife so do be absolutely certain that you have understood ATC instructions.

[Helen49]

Good advice from HD.

Goes to show how easily an unusual event can provide a distraction.

Can't beat sticking to standard RTF Procedures........that's why they are there, although there are many temptations to stray from the 'straight and narrow' particularly in quiet traffic situations.

A useful safety lesson for all operational personnel!

Helen

[throw a dyce]

ATC should not use non standard R/T as part of any clearance,ATC,local restriction,line up or take off.This is a hot potato at the moment,and the controller should know better.If the controller is so desperate to suck up to the captain,then on the phone or in the pub.I would throw a thick book at the controller,with no tea and biscuits.:hmm:

[10 DME ARC]

Throw a dyce is correct file a CA1261(or what ever its called these days) or at very least CHIRP!

[Dr.Triax]

Throw a dyce, you said it: should not use non standard R/T as part of any clearance :ok:

[Trim Stab]

Well I too would be surprised and distracted if a controller said something like that at the end of the line up clearance. Having read your post, I've made a mental note that if it ever happened to me, I would ignore the greeting and make no attempt to reply.

I suspect that the controller may not have been aware how concentrated and stressed pilots are at departure - studies have shown that heart-rate etc reaches its highest point just prior to take-off.

Do you not have a nav sheet where you could make a distinct mark to show that a) you had been cleared to line up and b) cleared for take-off.... or is it all in your head?


I'm interested to read that even an experienced (judging by his posts) controller like HD has posed that question. We write down the departure clearance (SID, sqwauk, QNH etc) before or during taxying but that's it. There is too much going on at taxi, line-up and departure to be taking notes.

[ozineurope]

Interesting input. It is certainly not the done thing to make flippant RT calls with a clearance. Exactly because this type of thing can occur.

I do know that in the old F28 the flip type check list had as the last pre departure check 'take off clearance received' which had tobe flipped over by the PNF. Not sure about a glass cockpit though.

[LEGAL TENDER]

HD, you correct everybody else's minor mistakes, like the guy calling "Ground" what was probably "Air" or the combined TWR position, but then you have no idea how basic cockpit management works :(

[Vercingetorix]

Legal Tender
HD's post was succinct and to the point which is more than can be said of your scribble.
HD is an ATCO not a pilot. You think that he should be au fait with the working procedures of every flight crew in every airline in every type of aircraft?

Uhm!:eek:

[rolaaand]

SarahJS,
File your own report on this incident. Be open and honest during the investigation. I'm sure there are lessons to be learned on the ATC side of things as well as the obvious lessons you have learned. It's possible that the tower controller has spotted you during your take off run and decided that the runway is clear and that it is a better option to allow you to depart than tell you to stop,especially if you were already travelling quite fast when s/he noticed.
I'm sure the potential consequences are not lost on you,your colleague on the flight deck or the controller involved. If you are based at the airfield where the incident happened then try to organise a debrief of the incident with the controller if you feel this would be mutually beneficial.
Personally I would consider it bad form to pass messages during a clearance or during an obviously busy time for the flight deck. On the odd occasion where I do want to(usually a message for a passenger) I'll ask if the crew have time to pass a message.
Cheers,rolaaand.

[Imperator1300]

I agree that passing such greetings during line up/take off is unwise :uhoh:. However, it seems that there was no harm done and a lesson has been learnt by you (and hopefully the ATCO concerned!).

[privateer01]

Not chucking your captain under the trolley......

Where I work...it takes agreement from both pilots vis a vis clearances.

Particularly Takeoff clearances.

CRM...there were two of you....what was the Captains response?

[DFC]

Do you not have a nav sheet where you could make a distinct mark to show that a) you had been cleared to line up and b) cleared for take-off.... or is it all in your head?



Good Point.

It is common practice for the following to be SOP;

Cleared to Line-up on, enter or cross a runway = Strobes On.

Cleared for Take-off (or Cleared to Land) = Landing lights on

There are variations but the above represents the common version.

Thus as you point out, there is normally a physical note of the clearance received - by moving the switch.


Where I work...it takes agreement from both pilots vis a vis clearances.



Indeed, both pilots must monitor ATC in such a situation.

Perhaps the fact that the PIC did not react to the comment;

I also looked over at the captain to see his reaction (he did not show any reaction).

leaves the posibility that the PIC did not hear the transmission from ATC correctly / did not take in what was said. Therefore I am surprised to find that they beleived they had a take-off clearance.

[BugOutWest]

I would be grateful for any comments or advice.

Bad luck, SarahJS. As has already been written, ATC should not have mixed the call. And our job as pilots is not to let them confuse us.

I took off from Gibraltar without clearance, many years ago. I was so tense about the navigation from Gib eastwards along the Med (trying to skim between FIRs) that I released brakes with only a Line up clearance.

I haven't done it in the 28 years since; now I start the stopwatch as I am given T/O clearance.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Line Up clearance = Anti Colls & TCAS TA/RA

Take Off Clearance = Landing Lights on.

Saved my bacon on a couple of occurences also involves the other crew member

[spekesoftly]

Line Up clearance = Anti Colls & TCAS TA/RAAren't Anti-Colls switched on just before push back?

[fernytickles]

SarahJS,

When I was at about the same stage you are, a much wiser, much older (and sadly no longer around), much more experienced pilot once said to me, that "there will always be mistakes made in the cockpit", and his way of dealing with was to try and reduce the number of mistakes with every flight until he had them at a controllable level.

So, you, the captain, and the ATC all made a mistake. You are not the first, nor will you be the last. Learn from it. Beating yourself up over it is completey unconstructive (someone else told me that, too...). Turn it in to a constructive learning experience. "What could I have done better, what could I have done to prevent it happening, etc, etc".

Honesty is the best course of action. Just think, if hundreds of pilots before you had not been honest about their mistakes, no one would have been able to learn from them. The fault does not lie specifically at your door - every flight is a team effort, with the final responsibility falling on the head of the person in the left seat with all the grey hairs.

If it helps, write everything down - what happened, what was discussed by you, the crew, on how to prevent it happening again, and what you have come up with as a way of preventing it happening again.

HD and the other controllers on here would know for sure, but I'm guessing its a standard procedure for a call to the company to be made in the event of something like this happening. Its not about pointing fingers, but to help prevent repeat occurences. Someone is probably scratching their head over the checklist, wondering how it could be modified to add some extra kind of memory aid.

[tom775257]

These things happen. Tonight I was at a Turkish airport, we were behind a 737 that was cleared take off 19L, they rolled and carried out a high speed rejected takeoff on 19R. We were busy trying to work out what we were doing wrong, we confirmed we were operating correctly and they had made the mistake just as in a cloud of smoke the local airline announced 'stopping'.

A friend of mine was FO in an A319 that departed without clearance. That was covered up due to it being a flag carrier at a local airport.

[Spitoon]

Sarah, not that it helps the way you feel, but this is a classic HF error. Our brains do everything they can to trip us up sometimes!

As has been pointed out, there will always be mistakes made on the flight deck, just as there will always be mistakes in ATC - the secret is to know this and be ready to correct errors. The people who frighten me are the ones - and there are some around - who are convinced they don't make mistakes and so don't bother looking out for them!

Without knowing exactly what was going through everyones' minds, it sounds like all three parties missed opportunities to pick up the error. All you can do now is to understand as much as possible how it happened so that you can be alert for similar circumstances in the future.

Not wanting to point fingers, it does seem strange for the controller to have made a 'non-operational' comment at such a critical stage of the flight. Unlike some of the other posts which seek no non-standard RTF at all, I tend to feel that being a little relaxed with the phraseology now and again is OK - but only when the time is right (although it's not always obvious when the time is right for both ATC and crew). Whatever, the runway holding point is never going to be one of those times!

As to unauthorised departures - despite all our efforts, they do happen. Many years ago I had an aircraft roll when all I had done was issue a line-up clearance. When I realised what was happening I knew that operationally it was not a problem and I took the decision not to stop the aircraft or do anything else at that point. When the aircraft was established in the climb I made an RTF call to say that it wasn't a problem but they had not been cleared for take-off. In retrospect, I have often though that I should not have made that RTF call - it really wasn't a good time to present the crew with a potentially disturbing call when they had far more important things to do.

I don't know how reports might be handled in your company and country - I guess it depends how just your just culture is but, ideally, put a report in. Be honest, perhaps even show what you would do differently now having learned from this event. And in years to come, when you have far more experience and you are teaching and mentoring those that are just starting their careers, you can use this event to help others not to get caught out in the same way.

[Pera]

In our neck of the woods you have to advise a pilot of any violation. I have never thought that it was a good idea while they were still flying.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Pity Sarah has not responded on here or to emails..

[mad_jock]

Give it some time HD if you get sent off down route it can be very hard if not impossible to get email never mind sit down and write a answer.

One of the many joys of tramping around living out of a suitcase.