Volcanic ash cloud and Private / VFR flying (merged)

[fisbangwollop]

With most of the UK airspace closed to IFR flight today due the volcanic ash cloud it could be a good day to explore with of course ATC clearance airspace that on normal days you would not have gained clearance into....what a chance to get a clearance to overfly your local major airfield.....would be interesting to hear if many take the opportunity or even if the opportunity will exist!! :cool::cool:

[Captain Smithy]

Not for those of us who are stuck at work :(

Could be an interesting day though...

Smithy

[mad_jock]

Aye but its closed for a reason

Volcanic Ash will make a right mess of your highly expensive plastic window that you need to see out of.

[fisbangwollop]

MJ.......Yea I know that but the ash levels seem to be remaining high, I think the Scottish sigmet yesterday eve said between FL050 and FL350...I guess at 90kts the windscreen would not suffer??...Anyway I wonder if Loganair manage to operate all their flights VFR today.....:cool::cool:

[IO540]

Just wondering...

Projected spread (http://metoffice.com/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271309704.png)

[mad_jock]

Nah mate the windscreens are made out of plastic. The ash is basically very fine particles of glass. The big aircraft screens are made out of glass and they get eaten by it. 90knts glass particles against plastic will just pit and I would imagine its not outside the range of possibilty to actually eat right the way through. Even if you flying in clear air there will still be particles dropping out below causing damage.

All your paint work will be shot blasted as well.

And the particles would also get sucked up into the engine. The filter might be able to take some of them out but as soon as you use the carb heat you will get them into the cylinders, the liners are very soft, you will basically turn your oil system into a liquid emery scourer (Emery paper which we call sandpaper is made out of volcanic ash)

[mad_jock]

I was also thinking about starting thread on the subject as well

Basically is particals of emery.

If it did get into your engine I would imagine it would just scoure it to death pretty sharpish.

I would also imagine as well that alot of cars are going to be screwed by this as well.

[Mariner9]

The current ASHTAM states as follows:

A VOLCANIC ASH CLOUD, ORIGINATING IN ICELAND, IS HAVING A
MAJOR IMPACT AFFECTING UK AIRSPACE. UK AREA AFFECTED:
610000N 0100000W 610000N 0000000W 600000N 0000000W
570000N 0050000E 550000N 0050000E 530409N 0031619W
521700N 0004400W 512200N 0041300W 521000N 0062900W
535605N 0053533W 563400N 0040700W 591000N 0052400W
603243N 0100000W 610000N 0100000W SFC/UNL
OPR SHOULD REFER TO VA ADVISORY 20100415/0600 FOR FURTHER INFO.
IN ACCORDANCE WITH ICAO VOLCANIC ASH CONTINGENCY PLAN, NO IFR
CLEARANCE WILL BE ISSUED FOR PENETRATION OF THE FORECAST
CONTAMINATED AREA THAT LIES WITHIN UK AIRSPACE.

No idea how to access the referenced "VA ADVISORY" though, any clues anyone? Edit: The VA advisory is in fact the Met office notification linked by IO540 above :O

[Kolibear]

I would also imagine as well that alot of cars are going to be screwed by this as well.

Only if they can reach FL200.

[Pianorak]

Click on Projected spread above

[mad_jock]

Nah the stuff has to land sometime once it does thats when the damage occurs. Where it will land who knows

[Pace]

Where it will land who knows

Hopefully on the UK parliament tomorrow as a two fingers to GBs Carbon Emission taxes.

I am sure when the scientists note a dramatic increase in carbon levels GB will use that as another vindication and that global warming is all man made.

That little explosion has put more carbon into the atmosphere than ten years of the man made stuff.

Pace

[mad_jock]

Aye that volcano will have chucked more gases into the air than anything Brown will have done to help the enviroment.

Going to be interesting how long this thing is going to last.

The amount of ash thats up there already is quite small but the thing doesn't seem to be running out of steam. The ash is also up there before summer so next winter could be a right freezing job. If that high pushes the ash up into the artic high and dumps it on the ice cap that could speed up its melting. So the flights getting grounded for a week might be the least of our worries.

[Captain Smithy]

I wouldn't imagine it would be too clever for the engine's health...:uhoh:

Smithy

[Captain Smithy]

Are you pretty quiet today then FBW?

[fisbangwollop]

Not on duty till 1300 but I guess so :(:(:(

[fisbangwollop]

Mad Jock.....OH bugger does that mean I have to take the push bike to work??? :( Anyway whats all the panic about, I thought you were used to flying through dust?? :cool::cool:

[Ringway Flyer]

I thought piston engines had filters? So apart from when using carb heat, the ash should be trapped by the filters.... But I think I'll hang fire until we know how long and just HOW bad the situation turns out to be...

And what about all the military aircraft? Jets don't have filters! Are we at risk?

[mad_jock]

I am but its dust which has had a couple of million of years to get all the sharp edges smoothed off it. Also as well we had a new prop put on 4 months ago and it s been stripped of paint and looks like its been on for 5 years flying in Scotland.

And personally if the ash does start to fall I would stick your own car in the garage and rent one.

[jxc]

Touch and go's at Heathrow from 12pm no charge

[Captain Smithy]

Eyjafjallajökull. What I want to know is how in the name of Christ do you pronounce that? Ejaff... ejaffa... ejaffajoke... oh bugger it.

A confused, tongue-tied Smithy

[fisbangwollop]

Volcano still emmiting ash...upper wind still from the NW...ah well I guess I may hang my headset up for a few more days!!! :cool::cool:

[BackPacker]

On a more serious note...

I was trawling through my usual (official and unofficial) sources of pre-flight information, including the EAD (Eurocontrol) site, homebriefing.nl, met'map, wetterzentrale.de and the official Dutch Met pages (KNMI - Koninklijk Nederlands Meteorologisch Instituut (http://www.knmi.nl)) and I found no trace whatsoever of the SIGMET reports in which this little event is described. Even a Google search for SIGMET BIRK or SIGMET EHAA gave surprisingly little information (though enough to understand what's going on).

So I'm a bit worried that my normal pre-flight routine would not have picked up this event. Until the NOTAMs start appearing that airports are closed, or until the METARS/TAFs start reporting VA.

So what's the "official" source for sigmet information that you use? Would your routine have picked this up, and if so, how/where?

[Heliplane]

So what's the "official" source for sigmet information that you use?

PPrune!

It's showing on the AIS website under Notam searches (presumably one has to always tick the "ASHTAM" box).

[Pilot DAR]

I recall reading recently of some unsettled accounts between countries of the EU/UK, and Iceland.

Hey there, I think Iceland has your airspace closed, I suggest you settle the accounts to their satisfaction as quick as you can!

[IO540]

What is most notable about this is that nobody seems to actually know anything about the impact (if any) on low level GA, e.g. below FL100 or FL200.

The NOTAM put out by NATS is pure ar*se covering material.

If this stuff (which is quite invisible right now, at low levels) is capable of stripping paint off, what is it going to do to one's lungs?

To me, it seems there is NO danger whatsoever at VFR-GA levels.

[stuartforrest]

so can you fly vfr at low level still?

I am meant to be moving my plane tomorrow for some engineering work but I m not sure if I should go to the airport tomorrow?

[fisbangwollop]

Buisness for me as usual at Scottish Info this afternoon, every man and his dog out....about the only one in the ops room talking to aircraft!! :cool::cool:

[Too low]

I'm in the same case as you guys. Don't know anything. Nothing about GA on metoffice, nothing on NATS... I was planning a local tonight, I prefer to postpone it... Dont know what those ashes exactly do to our cylinders, don't know if the air filter stop that crap efficiently enough and I don't want to discover it in flight.:8
Barton info says VFR OPR SHOULD EXERCISE EXTREME CAUTIONO AND MUST ASSURE THEMSELVES THAT THEIR INTENDED FLIGHT CAN BE CONDUCTED IN A SAFE MANNER.
Suspect they dont know much more we do!

"In a safe manner" LOL.

[fisbangwollop]

If you check out NATS | AIS - Home (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php.html)

You will get the Notams no problem...latest here....

) EGXX/QAFXX/IV/NBO/E/000/999/5441N00219W999
B) FROM: 10/04/15 12:00C) TO: 10/04/15 17:59
E) A VOLCANIC ASH CLOUD, ORIGINATING IN ICELAND, IS HAVING A
MAJOR IMPACT AFFECTING UK AIRSPACE. UK AREA AFFECTED:
610000N 0100000W 610000N 0000000W 600000N 0000000W
570000N 0050000E 550000N 0050000E 503039N 0013824E
493000N 0041900W 493957N 0080000W 510000N 0080000W
522000N 0053000W 535324N 0053000W 553600N 0020800W
574700N 0015500W 604402N 0100000W 610000N 0100000W
SFC/UNL
OPR SHOULD REFER TO VA ADVISORY 20100415/0600 FOR FURTHER INFO.
IN ACCORDANCE WITH ICAO VOLCANIC ASH CONTINGENCY PLAN,
NO IFR CLEARANCE WILL BE ISSUED FOR PENETRATION OF THE FORECAST
CONTAMINATED AREA THAT LIES WITHIN UK AIRSPACE. B0693/10

[junction34]

fisbangwallop: Are there any VFR restrictions in place in the Scottish FIR?

IOM airspace is NOTAM'd as restricted for all traffic now. Frustratingly, it's clear blue skies and sunshine all round.

-j34-

[S-Works]

The ash in the upper atmosphere, the chances of it even appearing at puddle jumper altitudes is negligible. Reading some of the posts on here you would think doomsday was coming.

I am off to take the Auster for a bimble.

[MIKECR]

Plenty VFR stuff flying here in Scotland today. Weather is glorious, blue skies and light winds. Sitting in my back garden just now enjoying the sunshine after my roster today was cancelled.

And there go's a pa28 overhead as i type.

[Katamarino]

Hoping for a fly-by of Schipol in the Cessna on saturday if this keeps up! :ok:

[thesandfly]

The last time the little devil went into action it lasted 200 years! Maybe we can defer the annuals. Bit like Mad Cow disease, the latest flu epidemic etc etc. Major panic, this time over something that is and has been occuring throughout the world since time began. Reason its over UK its running along in a fast jet stream at very high levels, unlikely to stop off to cause those at low levels any problems.However we live in a dont do this or that world and many have never seen the days when we could and did operate with a minimum of big brother dictates. Go fly and enjoy!

[chevvron]

Directorate of Airspace Policy at the CAA have told Heathrow not to issue SVFR clearances so don't go blaming Heathrow ATC for being 'inflexible'.

[UV]

Maybe I'm being thick but I cannot see the reason for closing all (relevant) UK airspace to Special VFR when VFR is unaffected.

Anyone KNOW why?

UV

[AdamFrisch]

Because saying no is much easier than saying yes. Unfortunately becoming a British trait.

[Pudnucker]

Been for a lovely flight today. No problems whatsoever:

The dust particles are upper level (greater than FL100) and has affected jet traffic only. Jet engines suck in raw air into their engines and spit it out the back again, the "raw" air reaches moving parts of the engine - piston engines have air filters (unless carb heat on) so not affected (by smaller particles - ok at high level (which they cant operate in anyway) they could be).

No my windscreen has not been damaged, all the paint is on the propellor and leading edges still have paint on them. Checked the air fliter on landing - clean as a whistle.

Usual storn in a tea cup with Sky News making things sound like the apocalypse is upon us...

Even was cleared straight across controlled airspace even though its all supposed to be closed..

It does seem that the election is as predicted so boring that the reporters have got over excited AGAIN and poo'd their pants....

[Pudnucker]

totally agree. when are the controlling authorities actually going to employ and/or consult pilots rather than stuffed shirts on fat public sector final pensions...

[Captain Smithy]

At least it provides us with a well-needed respite from all the election bollocks on the telly...:cool:

Placing a blanket ban on SVFR is a touch extreme, however... not sure what the thinking behind that is.

No rest for the wicked eh FBW :}

Smithy

[IO540]

This means one cannot fly to many/most Class D airports under VFR.

Bl00dy stupid.

[bingoboy]

It's perhaps to offset carbon from the eruption.

[cessnapete]

Complete and utter overreaction for low level traffic. Tried to go to Jersey this afternoon could go IFR but not even S//VFR available as Zone shut to all traffic. Severe blue sky over most of UK FIR.
Health and safety gone mad.

[Cabin doors 2 manual]

I spoke to a radar controller and a member of NATS in the South of England today and although they cannot stop VFR flights they recommended NOT to fly any GA flights. Listening in on the RT with the same controller after midday they made a point of saying "....the pilot must ensure safeflight etc" with a big emphasis on the word safe.

The Metoffice is also showing ash from the surface upwards covering the entire UK now.

Also speaking to an engineer today, he said any volcanic ash that gets into the cylinders is like sand/grit and will wear the engine.

All because the skies are blue does not make it safe to fly. There is no way a GA pilot can ensure the flight is safe when ash is reported from the surface upwards so they should not be flying.

If in doubt still speak with the Metoffice for their opinion before flying.

[AdamFrisch]

This means one cannot fly to many/most Class D airports under VFR.

Why not? You don't need SVFR for D, just two way comms and transponder.

[Crash one]

I would have thought that any ash capable of damaging an engine would be noticeable by taste, smell or recognised by some other form of human senses.
The sky out there is clear blue, vis, a long way.
More arse covering hype thickened with large quantities of bullsh!t.

[IO540]

Sometimes you do. When I used to go to the IOM VFR the clearance given was SVFR.

No idea why... I never asked for it.

[IO540]

I would have thought that any ash capable of damaging an engine would be noticeable by taste, smell or recognised by some other form of human senses.
The sky out there is clear blue, vis, a long way.
More arse covering hype thickened with large quantities of bullsh!t.

I agree that the stuff must manifest itself as much reduced visibility - unless some new physics has been created in Iceland :)

[biscuit74]

With regard to cars, let's recall that -
(a) cars generally have air filters and
(b) they are pulling in air much more slowly than a jet hoovering through the upper atmosphere at 500knots or thereby.

So, unless the fall of ash is sufficiently severe that you observe significant visibility drop, I'd not worry unduly about your car.

[eharding]

I agree that the stuff must manifest itself as much reduced visibility - unless some new physics has been created in Iceland :)

Ah, its damn tricky stuff this invisible volcanic dust - we got some on the Pitts at Elvington a couple of years ago..absolutely lethal - smashed the ends off the prop, knackered the camshaft and the cylinders and beat the daylights out of the gear. Obviously, we couldn't see the dust, and some might claim it was actually the tarmac hiding underneath the dust that did the damage....but I know invisible killer volcanic dust when I don't see it.

[M609]

It's not visible in the air, but ash has fallen and reached ground close to the north cape.

[xrayalpha]

Just back from a nice flypast at Glasgow International in a weightshift microlight.

Some things you can do today that you just wouldn't any other day - or every ash cloud has a silver lining!

[fisbangwollop]

Guess that was you that Glasgow phoned me about as they lost contact with you to the west of the zone!!.....said you were going to 129...something, why not call Scottish for a cheery service on 119.875?? :cool::cool:

[reportyourlevel]

Sometimes you do. When I used to go to the IOM VFR the clearance given was SVFR.

No idea why... I never asked for it.


I can't imagine a controller giving you special VFR if (normal) VFR was available, much harder work! Was this recently?

[Cabin doors 2 manual]

It's not visible in the air...

Exactly right. :ok:

Not all dangers to aviation are visible to the human senses. Can human senses detect carb icing conditions from the ground in clear blue skies?

Listen to the experts such as NATS and the MetOffice rather than fall for the 'if you cannot see the danger then it must be Ok' type reasoning.

[thesandfly]

Cabin Doors

Are not the guys at NATS just wonderful! Thank the Lord they did not recommend the guy to have (with emphasis) a dangerous flight. Get a life, it is your types attitude that has taken the Great out of Great Britain. Just think where we would be had Columbus, Alcock etc listened to the PC and Health and Safety sect. There is I know a GA to ATPL flight school in Al Ain. It is an area that suffers from more or less continual sand ingress as a result of desert winds. Cessnas, A320, A340 B777 all use the facility on a daily basis no problems have been recorded. And before you do, sand can rise to serious flight levels during dust storms and often does. Maybe they fly safe because Nats and the others mentioned are not located out there!

[Duchess_Driver]

Three ship formation through Luton class D VFR this afternoon....:ok:

Simples.

DD

[IO540]

The other thing is that that famous 1982 B747 flew into a solid cloud of the stuff, more or less right above the volcano. At night, they would not have seen a thing. All you have is radar, and if the stuff has no water content / conductivity, it won't show up.

[IO540]

Was this recently?

No, a few years ago.

I am off to the norffff of engoland tomorrow.... was going to go IFR at FL140 but it doesn't look like that piece of Mac hardware in Brussels, packed to the brim with NATS notams, is going to swallow it...

[Roffa]

ICAO requires no IFR clearances into an area affected by volcanic ash.

My guess for no SVFR clearances, if that's happening, is because SVFR is a dispensation to operate in conditions that should otherwise require compliance with IFR.

Mind you just done a narrow route brief and there's no NOTAM that I saw closing the London Zone.

[roofy]

Swine flu, Polio, Diptheria, measles, dont think too many of them show up so what we going to do. Stay in until all are eradicated. Black ice is a bit tricky to spot but... Sandy fly has more than a sound point. There is a choice for all. Go fly and see things that we have had taken from us over the years, Heathrow, Gatwick, Manchester (well on the way) or sit at home and keep the dust off the wings. In a few days time the scare mongering amongst us will be revealed much as the flu epidemic clowns have (you recall Liam Donaldson and his millions of doses of flu vaccine?) Liam has gone, the vaccine is stored unwanted and the Icelandic ash will follow the same road. Good thing is there is a new Crime watch coming up soon, I imagine someone somewhere will see some of this evil dust. I did hear it was from the Arsenal Football trophy cabinet which Arsen had been seen dusting but ...

[ChampChump]

If in doubt still speak with the Metoffice for their opinion before flying.



In that case I think I'd have flown in some dangerous and illegal conditions over the years.

It was a jolly pleasant evening flight over Kent; I think I'll contine to make my own decisions, right or wrong, having taken note of the information available.

[Will88]

Listening in on the RT with the same controller after midday they made a point of saying "....the pilot must ensure safeflight etc" with a big emphasis on the word safe.

This kind of crap really rips my knitting.

Completely unnecessary verbiage that will have absolutely nil effect on anything or anyone.

:ugh:

[IO540]

I couldn't agree more.

They could not come up with more obvious ar*e covering bollox.

Mind you, the more people one meets from the aviation regulatory agencies, the fewer of them turn out to have ever flown a plane (of any sort).

I cannot see why I should fly safely, anyway. When I go up, I always do all I can to fly as dangerously as possible.

[UV]

because SVFR is a dispensation to operate in conditions that should otherwise require compliance with IFR.


You may be getting close there but today the Stansted ATIS, for example, was specifically saying the "UK FIR is closed to IFR and SVFR traffic". However the weather conditions at Stansted today did not require SVFR.

London (Heathrow) were turning away lots of SVFR requests, including police helos, (unless Cat A) and a cheeky pilot in a Cessan 172 asking for a cross country clearance via the Heathrow overhead at 1500 feet!

So can anyone explain why VFR is allowed but not SVFR?
UV

[Maoraigh1]

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs027-00/fs027-00.pdf

[Red Four]

Does anyone have a link to this ICAO policy that IFR flights are not allowed? I cannot see any difference between the risk to IFR and VFR when outside CAS, especially as in the UK it is now the ATC service that is being provided OCAS that is (IMO) more important than the flight rules.

And whilst we are at it, where does it say that the national ANSP is not to provide radar services outside CAS during such conditions? This is all I could find on radar services:
"Alert flights already within the danger zone and offer them vectors to expedite evacuation out of the area. Also, aircraft that are close to the danger zone should be vectored clear of the area. Tactically re-clear flights which would penetrate the zone onto routes that will keep them clear."

[roofy]

And the relevance to us is?

Guess there will be ash in similar quantities around the Icelandic Volcano and there was at the time around Mt St Helens. Not yet spotted the link.

Maoraigh you got any interesting links to the American football league?

[derekf]

Heathrow in London CTR (class A) so no VFR - SVFR or IFR only

[Romeo Tango]

Not all dangers to aviation are visible to the human senses. Can human senses detect carb icing conditions from the ground in clear blue skies?

I think one would be able to see if there was ash about on a clear blue day. It's a good enough risk for me anyway.

I agree, if the vis is bad, it may be difficult to tell the difference between your average industrial gunk and God's clean Iclandic stuff.

[Pudnucker]

It appears that the nay sayers on here are the types who only fly on perfect zero wind cavok days after doing a risk assessment... The very ones who cant fly tight circuits, roll out the whole length of the runway when theres three other a/c behind them on finals, fly eyes glued to their maps and gps and generally cause chaos on warm bank holiday afternoons... if i believed everything I read on here, I would stay wrapped up in cotton wool and fly about 2 hours a year....

Low lever VFR was absolutely fine today. What I dont understand is why they didnt get much of the airline traffic out low level?

[Pudnucker]

These types could also apply to work for sky news and try to over hype everything in the attempt to enrichen the lives of those wrapped in cotton wool who believe the bullsh*t and never go out

[BackPacker]

I agree, if the vis is bad, it may be difficult to tell the difference between your average industrial gunk and God's clean Iclandic stuff.

Well, I've viewed the sky from ground level a lot of times and seen only stark blue. Then went up in the aircraft to be confronted with a massive viz problem due to an inversion at, say, FL50. So I'm not a believer in "what I can't see isn't there". And if the Met Office says it's unsafe to fly I tend to stay on the ground. (Easy decision since I didn't intend to fly today or tomorrow anyway.)

But on the other hand, I find the methods that are employed by the met observers rather crude. Heck, even in the very official SIGMET straight from the VAAC specialists at the Met Office they define vast areas of airspace where a bit of the cloud may have ended up, and then write this:

RMK: ASH CONCENTRATIONS WITHIN THE INDICATED AREAS ARE UNKNOWN

Come on folks, for cloud, visibility and the like we have all sorts of norms and standards. But shutting virtually all of the Northern Europe airspace down because of an unknown concentration of ash? That sounds a bit last century to me. Are they really not able to specify/measure something along the lines of a certain number of grams of ash per m3, and are engine manufacturers really not able to tell what concentration is harmful to engines/windshields/paintwork and what concentration is not?

If this eruption, just like last time, is going to last for two years we are going to have to come up with something a little more clever than this.

[xrayalpha]

Hi FISbang,

I think it was Glenn in SJEN, I was in the weightshift and exited at East Kilbride, so no point in giving you a call when Strathaven was three miles away and in sight. So went straight to safety.com.

I know Glenn lost two-way with Glasgow at one point since I heard their calls, but then that is not uncommon when at 2,000ft and below around their zone, as you know.

He may have gone to the microlight frequency 129.875 to see if Alan Marsh was about at Kip, I will ask today.

[Pudnucker]

Quote: Cessna 172 asking for a cross country clearance via the Heathrow overhead at 1500 feet!


Love it... good boy :ok:

[Cabin doors 2 manual]

It appears that the nay sayers on here are the types who only fly on perfect zero wind cavok days after doing a risk assessment...

If you are referring to me then perhaps you should know I'm currently an instructor flying about 900 hours a year. I've ferried planes across the atlanic, across europe to the middle east and down through Africa in my past. I've flown in conditions some of you couldn't even imagine.

That said, if there is a rare event of a volcanic ash plume overhead with unknown density and the authorities have decided to close UK airspace I would use common sense and not fly myself. It has nothing to do with skill or experience, it would be reckless to endanger those people on the ground considering the advice from the Metoffice. By the time you would know of problems flying through ash it would be too late.

The ash plume you see on TV is a few hundreds metres across at the volcano. By the time it reaches the UK that has spread to a few hundred miles across. The contents of the plume are the same but why do some people on this forum still think you would see the ash when its spread that far apart?

[eharding]

If you are referring to me then perhaps you should know I'm currently an instructor flying about 900 hours a year. I've ferried planes across the atlanic, across europe to the middle east and down through Africa in my past. I've flown in conditions some of you couldn't even imagine.


Can I just stop you there, because you're on the verge of going overboard, and your next stop if unrestrained will be "All those moments will be lost in time; like tears in rain", and we'll have to assume you're sporting a monumentally dodgy mullet.


The ash plume you see on TV is a few hundreds metres across at the volcano. By the time it reaches the UK that has spread to a few hundred miles across. The contents of the plume are the same but why do some people on this forum still think you would see the ash when its spread that far apart?

This is, however, the basis of homeopathy - take something potent, dilute it by so many orders of magnitude that the only means of detecting it is purely an act of faith, and convince the gullible that the act of dilution actually enhances the potency of the original ingredient.

[D SQDRN 97th IOTC]

I need to fly from Heathrow to New York on Wednesday next week......

am I stuffed?
should I be getting onto a liner now?

[A and C]

It is hard to see the talk of errosion of paint (& props), the damage to the inside of engines being very well informed when directed to light aircraft flying at low levels when the "ash" is above FL100 or more likely FL200.

The small amounts of "ash" that might fall to earth are likely to be so small that it is likely to be pushed aside by stagnated air ahead of a slow speed aircraft.

As to the dust damaging the engine, just observing the differance between the dirt washed out of an air fliter in the summer vs the dirt from an airfliter in the winter will show just how much dust is floating around during the summer as well as how well the airfilters remove fine dust from the induction air. I have yet to see people on these forums recomending that we dont fly in the summer due to the dust!

So given the fact that there is very little volcanic ash at low levels, the aircraft has a good air filter and that the engine works in a diferent way to a turbine there is very little chance of engine dammage and no flight safety risk. In fact the flight safety risk is probably lower due to the lack of other air traffic.

[BackPacker]

In fact the flight safety risk is probably lower due to the lack of other air traffic.

Plus there's more airspace available to us, plus there's more controllers available to watch over us. Traffic Service for everyone!:ok:

[stickandrudderman]

He should probably have just done it. Everyone's bound to have their feet on the desk and either zzzzing or reading or picking their nose......:}
In fact, now's the time for a low level pass under Tower Bridge!!

[fisbangwollop]

Xray....hi thanks for that that would make sense.

take care

FBW :cool::cool::cool:

[fisbangwollop]

Mad Jock ...Proberly because i am a stroppytwat

Is that why they posted you to the desert?? :ok: Your comment could not be further from the truth, your a kind understanding pilot that us airtraffikers love to have to deal with....take care and keep the sand out of your sandals!!:cool::cool::cool:

[Fright Level]

Cessna 172 asking for a cross country clearance via the Heathrow overhead at 1500 feet!

Was going to go up and ask for one of those myself today until I saw this thread. I'd planned a low approach and go around along the runway. Why not, perfect opportunity and keep those LHR tower people busy but clearly some jobsworth says no.

[javelin]

Isn't it nice to see that one strange result of this event is that lots of light aeroplanes are out flying, doing unusual things and above all, communicating with airfields and requesting clearances without the threat or worry of infringement or mixing with busy traffic :ok:

I should be in Florida at Sun n Fun but am still at home, waiting for the non existent communication from our beloved company :ugh:

Get out there and fly - while you still can :E

[S-Works]

Well I risked life and limb flying a rag and tube aircraft in this terrible aviation disaster. I was constantly checking to see if my windscreen was being sandblasted but I could not see through the scratches to be sure so I figured as this stuff was so abrasive it was probably going to vaporise the fabric on contact so chose to keep an eye on the wings through the open window. I am pleased to say the the aircraft is still as dirty as ever, non of the flies stuck to it were even disturbed and I am here to fight another day.

All I could see was blue Sky and at the end a pleasant sunset.

I will report back again in an hour so on this mornings flight.

[LowNSlow]

I'll be following Bose's example on Saturday and go and do some Austering. I'm particularly looking forward to asking for an East-West (runway direction) transit across my local international airport!

PS I wiped the bugs off Annie the Auster's wings and it increased the cruise speed by approximately 0.0000001 mph, a useful gain as I'm sure you'll agree. :ok:

[Mariner9]

That's about a 10% increase then LNS ;)

No flying for me this weekend, but only due to the fact that I'll be on an Adventure Training weekend in Snowdonia with the air cadets.

[LowNSlow]

It was like lighting the afterburners :eek:

[VMC-on-top]

Speaking of an over reaction, take a look at this....

www.flightradar24.com

It seems that not only the UK is closed but also France, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Denmark and (more obviously) all of Scandinavia!!

Is this really necessary?

[S-Works]

It's just emissions trading!! The Volcano has popped 100 years of aviation pollution into the atmosphere and it has to be traded off somehow.

I look forward to the golden days of steam, airships and sail.

[It flies]

Is this really necessary?The flightradar link doesn't work. Maybe the radar got swamped by ash deposits. Apparently the Dutch Aviation Authority wanted to be really safe, so they closed down the whole airspace. So not even any VFR traffic at all until at least 6:00 on saturday morning.

Looking outside, it's a lovely day...

[VMC-on-top]

Might just be that that site is busy - the link works fine for me. I would post up a screen print of the page but can't seem to do that?

[Katamarino]

eharding, I love the Blade Runner quote; thats exactly what I was thinking when I read the steely-eyed super-pilot referring to these incredible things that we couldn't even imagine :ok:

I intend to fly tomorrow, and assuming Schipol is still closed to the airlines, we'll be trying for a fly-by or even a touch-and-go!

[SNS3Guppy]

Is this really necessary?

Yes, it is.

[fisbangwollop]

Once again a cracking flying day here in Scotland......a very busy shift so far for me at Scottish Information....every man and his cat and dog now seem to be flying VFR of course!! .....just had a peek at the uk radar picture and the whole screen is covered in 7000 codes down south!!! :cool::cool:

[IO540]

It's bollox - at least at FL055 where I flew ~ 400nm today, or below. Vis is mostly unlimited, and there is no way for "dust" to be around with that kind of vis.

Higher up, possibly. I was just above the tops (below cloud it was rough as hell, as usual on a warm day) and there were some quite dark layers at maybe FL100 plus.

Apparently Farnborough were ordered to offer a BS only. Probably to stop exec jets operating VFR, contravening their company manual to always have a radar service when OCAS ;)

[Crash one]

Just back from risking life & limb flying over east Fife in beautiful sunshine.
A bit hazy higher up but the windscreen is still transparent, all the paint & flies still stuck to the a/c. We must have been incredibly lucky to have survived such horrendous meteorological conditions.:ugh:

[liam548]

Quote: Cessna 172 asking for a cross country clearance via the Heathrow overhead at 1500 feet!


Love it... good boy :ok:


That would be a great experience, I like this video that I found a couple of years ago on youtube-



YouTube - 5 Airports 1 Flight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5eY2oEg0Rw)

[Andy H]

Have to say that flying round Wiltshire / Hampshire at 2000ft this morning was a great experience. Lots of GA and microlights, but no big boys. And NO mode S either!
Andy

[150commuter]

I'm rather surprised that there's apparently been no coverage of the aircraft that are flying. I used to work on BBC regional news and if I were there now I'd have had a crew and reporter at Popham like a shot to do the "but some aircraft are still flying in Britain" angle and we'd have got it onto national news. They all seem mesmerised by the "Britain's airspace is closed" line.

If you've been flying today (I haven't) it might be worth giving
the local radio station a bell - good promotion for private flying just tell them how safe it is with no ash at low altitude etc.

[liam548]

I'm rather surprised that there's apparently been no coverage of the aircraft that are flying. I used to work on BBC regional news and if I were there now I'd have had a crew and reporter at Popham like a shot to do the "but some aircraft are still flying in Britain" angle and we'd have got it onto national news. They all seem mesmerised by the "Britain's airspace is closed" line.

If you've been flying today (I haven't) it might be worth giving
the local radio station a bell - good promotion for private flying just tell them how safe it is with no ash at low altitude etc.


BBC news has just commented on Newquay having normal operations to the Scillys "because they fly at around 1500ft".

[HeathrowAirport]

Heathrow must be loosing Million's or even billion's.

Come to think of it so is every other company involved, BAA should have organized last night a VFR fly in £20-30 landing fee, £10-15 a touch and go for Heathrow. The amount of traffic they would have got would probably utilise both runway's.

Saying that would traffic have a limit of coming in due to ANO rule 5?

Such as if on 27's having a short final and starting base .5 of a mile out to avoid Hounslow.

They would have made something at least.

[roofy]

See the French have closed all their airspace and their airfields as a result of , you guessed it, Volcanic Ash!!!
No GA in France, no open airfields! France joins our Nats or is Nuts

[x933]

Fright Level: Glad i'm not the only one that thought of that, just forgot to pick up my headset before I left for work. Ho hum, there's always tomorrow :E

[Maoraigh1]

http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2010/04/16/iceland-eruption-could-trigger-more (http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2010/04/16/iceland-eruption-could-trigger-more)
Looks like this problem may keep repeating.

Does anyone have experience of the effectiveness of aircraft air filters against this stuff? The O-200 filter seems to have a much smaller surface area than a car engine of similar size. Also, of course, a different type of filter.
This is of academic interest to me at present, as our O-200 is having a top overhaul.

From USGS advice re volcanic ash. (For cars etc)
“The most effective method to prevent ash-induced damage to machinery is to shut down, close off or seal equipment until ash is removed from the immediate environment”

“Change oil and oil filters frequently (every 50-100 miles in heavy dust; every 500-1000 miles in light dust).
Do not drive without an air filter. If you can not change it, clean it by blowing air from the inside out. Do not change it until you notice a loss of power to the engine as a dirty filter is more effective than a clean one.”

[Katamarino]

The Dutch have just closed airspace down to all VFR and IFR Civil flights until at least 8am on the 17th. Looks like the CAA here have joined the ranks of the other morons.

[liam548]

Lets hope the UK dont stop VFR flights, some cracking WX recently and coming up...

[Lighttown]

On the return leg at around 4:30 asked Farnborough if we could do an ILS. Answer: "sorry we cannot Radar vector you cause CAA forbids us to us the Radar as it might give defective data" . So we said OK we will self position for the localiser, Answer, "I will need Authoriastion to accept you as this is normally a busy period " !!! a few minutes wait Answer "Sorry I can't get authorisation as the he who authorises is not here"

Likely gone home as there was nothing happening !!!

Today heard of a TB10 who asked Heathrow Approach (yes there was someone there) for an ILS, Answer "sorry you need an IR to do that", TB10 can we have a SVFR and self position ? NO and if we did allow it would be £400 landing fee !! Bascically go away little boy..

A one off (we hope) chance for some interesting experiences and RULES and JOBs WORTH get in the way .
:*

[x933]

EGLF had 3, possibly 4 movements today. So your diagnosis (he/she'd gone home) is probably correct...

[Roffa]

Lighttown,

A one off (we hope) chance for some interesting experiences and RULES and JOBs WORTH get in the way .

Utter rubbish.

Whilst I of course do not doubt the veracity of the above reported overheard TB10 conversation, leaving aside the issue of currently being unable to offer IFR (or apparently SVFR) clearances, take note of the following NOTAM regarding EGLL...

Q) EGTT/QFALC/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5129N00028W005
B) FROM: 10/04/16 20:26C) TO: 10/04/17 12:00
E) IN LINE WITH CURRENT UK AIRSPACE RESTRICTIONS AD IS CLOSED

... and which is likely to be reissued as long as the effective airspace closures are in effect.

EGLL ATC procedures do not allow them to position traffic to a closed runway, which the runway surely is when the airfield is closed.

So, airspace clearance issues and the airfield itself is NOTAMed closed, maybe it's time to stop the pie in the sky let's go do touch and gos at Heathrow posts here and elsewhere.

[HeathrowAirport]

^^ Lool - Did they really say that on frequency. (Heathrow Director)

[Oldpilot55]

I love it! All these demented SEP pilots (myself included) desperate to visit their favourite excluded airfield and a very senior jobsworth scouring the rule book to ensure that his underworked lakies are kept underworked.

[150commuter]

I noticed that several regional airports including Southampton and Norwich were NOTAMd closed and their ATZs were also closed. Doesn't that mean we can fly VFR over them as much as we like or have I missed something?

[Deeday]

Informal report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8626625.stm) from the engineer on board the Do 228 research aircraft, just after landing at Cranfield (from the BBC):

"Heavy gritty stuff that seems to be sitting up around 8000 ft."
"Sulphurous chemicals sat somewhere around about 6500 ft [...] and at lower level, a lot of very fine stuff".

[liam548]

"Satellite imagery is showing a plume currently between 20 and 35 thousand feet over the near continent and extending westwards into southern UK and the English Channel. Evidence of thin plumes of volcanic ash were detected last night and during today across the UK, mainly at around six thousand feet. Also, there have been unconfirmed reports of slight ash deposits in places. With continuing eruptions from the volcano, we will continue to monitor the situation overnight. Issued at 1828 on Fri 16 Apr 2010. "

from the met office.

6000 feet, getting closer to ground level then!...

[Katamarino]

Dutch airspace now closed to all traffic until at least 1400. Apparently, Dutch GA is somehow special and would fall from the sky whereas UK GA can continue to fly unaffected...

[It flies]

Dutch GA is somehow special and would fall from the sky whereas UK GA can continue to fly unaffected... Yes, this will prevent many a glider from having an engine failure today...

Follow the deadly ash cloud here:
Eruption of Eyjafjallajökull Volcano, Iceland : Natural Hazards (http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/view.php?id=43684)

Even better, watch it live here:
Eyjafjallajökull frá Hvolsvelli (http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/)

Just add two days and you'll know if your flight wil be cancelled. :ok:

[mad_jock]

The Cranfield research aircraft found 3 layers of ash below 10k.

Anyone who has been up flying during this period of GA heaven had a look at the air filter to see what it has picked up. Also if anyone is rich enough maybe a soap sample might not go amiss either.

[IO540]

I flew s coast to yorkshire yesterday and back and my air filter looks exactly the same now as before - absolutely spotless. Unlimited vis at 5000-6000ft, most of the time.

Maybe today is different, and maybe there is more high up.

But I cannot see the physics supporting dangerous (abrasive) concentrations of anything and 30nm+ horizontal vis.

What is a soap sample?

[aviate1138]

Surely the Met Office [well known for its super accurate forecasting - not] has been doing all the talking and walking on this one? Covering one's arse would be putting it mildly IMHO.

So thin is the Icelandic dust down South [Hog's Back] we haven't even had any volcanic sunsets. :(

I see Genghis the Engineer has been up for a looksee. Heard him talking on BBC radio last eve.

[mad_jock]

A soap sample is a bottle of oil pulled from the engine after you have given it a run. Its then sent off to the lab where they do things to it. And send you a report on your engine. The report is scary accruate. They can tell you if you rings are leaking what components are shedding metal, if a bit of your engine is overheating locally etc etc.

And neither did the finish airforce and they have just had to change 4 engines. It will be interesting to see what they find when they boroscope the test aircrafts engines. I suspect for pistons you won't see anything in most cases until the next time you pull the cylinder head or something wears out way before its meant to.

[F.A.TAlbert]

IO540 (http://www.pprune.org/members/71715-io540)

I flew s coast to yorkshire yesterday and back and my air filter looks exactly the same now as before - absolutely spotless. Unlimited vis at 5000-6000ft, most of the time.
Maybe today is different, and maybe there is more high up.
But I cannot see the physics supporting dangerous (abrasive) concentrations of anything and 30nm+ horizontal vis.

Towards the end of the day and overnight, suspended particulate matter can descend especially if there is little or no wind. I am not far from Bagby and my car is again covered the same as my neighbors. So I think that is anyone believes that a good sunny day with clear skies means its ok then they are clearly wrong. It's the stuff you cannot see that will cost you money in the long run.

[IO540]

I do oil analysis but I am not due for another 30hrs or so.

The result will be interesting - one way or another.

[G-BHZO]

Looking like being a decent afternoon tomorrow weather-wise (in Scotland, at least). I had a long-standing plan to head over to Islay for a spot of lunch, but HIAL have suspended out of hours operations for GA until Monday. :ugh:

Cumbernauld and Oban report normal operations, and it seems GA is still flying at Prestwick. Glasgow ATC also saying that VFR entry to the Glasgow zone is ok, in fact more likely to get a direct routing through the zone due to the lack of commercial traffic arriving and departing.

It sounds as if Oban is possible tomorrow, at least in terms of airspace and airports, although the plan may change depending on how the low level ash situation develops over the next 24 hours.

Fisbangwallop... what is the GA picture looking like so far today?

[timtucker]

I flew here on Thursday in a BAe 146 and... I'm still here now. The trains are booked solid for days ahead, the ferries are... booked for days ahead. My mate offered to come and get me in his Cherokee 6 but they've closed the airspace here to low-level VFR traffic as well as the high-level IFR stuff and I'm sitting in my hotel room wondering why???

[Pace]

It is worrying that they have closed the airspace to low level VFR traffic.
Maybe this has something to do with security issues?

There is no safety issues with low level VFR traffic.

Pace

[BackPacker]

The KNVvL has already protested against closing the airspace for low-level VFR traffic. There is no good explanation for this, other than maybe some ass-covering.

Tim, the tulip fields in the "Bollenstreek" are in full bloom now. While you're stuck in Amsterdam, make the best of it. Either book a tour that departs from Amsterdam, or take the train to Leiden and rent a bicycle there. It's a beautiful day today and tomorrow with light winds so make the best of it!

[robert mailer]

few over london city and gatwick friday 4pm, great fun and a good view 747s on the ground:):D

['India-Mike]

Despite being a bit of a cynic about this stuff, I somewhat reluctantly have to agree with mad_jock. Listen to Genghis on the radio or tv (BBC website too) or have a look at the Finnish Air Force F18 engines on Flight's website. Coupled with that I woke up this morning to both my cars covered in very fine (but gritty) dust. I leave it to the aeroplane owners at my club(s) to make the decision, but I'm now 70-30 not to fly. At Pik the cars don't seem to have the dust that we have 30mi NNE in Glasgow but that might just mean it hasn't quite made it to ground level. With Gipsy overhauls at about £25k I'd rather discretion be the better part of valour:)

[IO540]

All fair points, but I think some perspective is in order. There is dust everywhere all the time, especially in the summer on nice days.

Anybody who does oil analysis will see a certain amount of silicon in the data. This is ingested soil. It is generally accepted that this plays a part in the rate of piston engine wear, but this needs to be seen against an assumed engine life of 2000hrs (which for most private owners is more than 20 years) during which time the engine has ingested a huge amount of soil.

That's why one has an air filter, and the filter should fit correctly.

There is also a tendency among some high altitude GA pilots to fly with the alternate air open all the time (when at altitude). I never do this - not least because it allows ice to form on the front of the air filter and then when you close the alternate air, the engine stops :)

[timtucker]

Thanks, but I wish I could rent a boat instead..

By implication are we to think that any engine is at risk from dust all the way down to ground level. Are people still driving their cars, using their motor mowers to do the lawn while they wait for the next flight?

I agree that its a bit of @rse-covering by the various air traffic services.

[Katamarino]

Pure arse-covering. Backpacker, I'd be interested to hear if there is any reaction from the authorities to the protest; how do they explain closing the airspace to gliders, for example!?

Is there a way to find out who has issued a certain NOTAM? They do not seem to include contact details when looked at through the Aviation Weather >> Europe > metar taf sigmet notam winds aloft significant weather information (http://euro.wx.propilots.net/) site.

Edit: I had a look at the KNVvL site, and the Dutch minister claims that the ban on all flying is due to "possible blockage of the pitot tube". I'm forced to wonder what planet these people live on.

[robin]

It is an interesting topic.

At the moment the restriction on flying in the UK is achieved by NATS. The CAA hasn't banned VFR flying unlike Holland, France etc.

But once EASA takes full competence (??) would it be EASA that would make these decisions for the EU as a whole?

[DebbieG]

This could be a once in a lifetime offer.

As Bristol Airport is twiddling it’s thumbs this weekend, any type of aircraft can land for £25 plus VAT from 0800 to 1800 today and tomorrow. There’s also a free drink at the Bristol and Wessex.

So far we’ve had several visiting microlights and a hot air balloon did a touch and go!

[Katamarino]

KNVvL just announced that VFR flight has been re-allowed!!

Edit: aaaaand the NOTAM is out and applies only to non-motorised. Bloody hell...

[timtucker]

AAAAaaargh my eyes, my eyes. I can't see!!!

Actually its all blue skies and tulips out here in Holland but I can't fly(banned) sail(booked up) or drive(no hire cars.) There are 4000 pasenegers on camp beds at the airport. My Cherokee 6 friend can't even get to France now. My only way out is to get a ferry from Dunkirk to Dover tomorrow. How fitting.

Might give those flowers a visit - thanks for the good idea. Hopefully there'll be a pub.

[BackPacker]

Tim, you have a PM.

[jxc]

I heard Andrewsfield has stopped operations as well

[fisbangwollop]

GBHZO....[QUOTE]Fisbangwallop... what is the GA picture looking like so far today?[/QUOTE

Just done a morning shift, not too busy after yesterdays full on day, that said the weather not as good here in Scotland as yessterday....looking at the UK radar picture the south of England once again stuffed full of 7000 sqk's....:cool::cool::cool: Also nice to see 2 BA 747's in Prestwick this morning, New york-London via Prestwick and 7 hour coach journey :eek::eek:

[Shunter]

Been up this afternoon. Lots of GA traffic out and about in Yorks/Lincs.

[Katamarino]

Depressing to see so many other countries flying GA as normal when we're stuck on the ground thanks to incompetent bureaucrats :(

[G-BHZO]

Thanks FIS.... hope to speak to you on the way to Oban tomorrow.

[fisbangwollop]

ZO.....Will be there awaiting your call in the morning then entertaining some Leading Edge folk in the afternoon......they picked a good day to visit...not!!!!!:cool::cool::cool:

[Sam Rutherford]

Just flown a beautiful Meribel-La Cote (between Lausanne and Geneva).

Hoping to head for Belgium tomorrow - we'll see!

Sam.

[GearDownFlaps]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs470.ash1/25808_382050313963_537018963_3861270_2614872_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3856975&id=537018963)
Well Im loving the view , ash is quite nice:ok:

[Tupperware Pilot]

Been a great day. The controllers at both Stansted and Luton very helpful and let us fly over the airfields and do a few orbits to take some photos!
Free Airspace.. - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tupperware_pilot/sets/72157623751643739/)

Stansted was very busy.......! Lots of GA wanting to fly over the airfield! I'm sure we heard one guy ask for a low flyby at Luton and was given the OK!

Photos: Airbus A320-... Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/EasyJet-Airline/Airbus-A320-.../1686847/L/&sid=a58cbdd710ae81696eae1489ad4f8c62)

Now updated to include photos of Birmingham.
Photos: Boeing 757-... Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Thomsonfly/Boeing-757-.../1688263/L/)

[wrecker]

I was wondering why during the current grounding of IFR flights, Gatwick are happy to offer SVFR clearances through their Class A airspace and Heathrow are'nt. Perpaps we should have a "temporary Reclassification of the London Tma to Class G! Afert all Nats is very happy to upgrade Class G to Class A for " purple" events!

[Roadrunner Once]

Gatwick has a class D zone, not class A, hence VFR is allowed.

As for CAS-T (not 'Purple' these days) for royal flights, I think (but stand to be corrected) that that is a matter for the MoD and the CAA, not NATS.

[mad_jock]

Apparently there have been reports of free fall meat bombs saying that they have been having stinging lips/exposed skin while freefalling in these 30k plus conditions.

[drambuster]

Roofy: See the French have closed all their airspace and their airfields as a result of , you guessed it, Volcanic Ash!!!
No GA in France, no open airfields!

Does anyone know if this is definitely the case? Roofy, can you let me know where you picked up this information?

Thanks
Drambuster

[x933]

I've been at a busy aero club in north london that has a bush in it's name, the last aircraft out today got a fly through at Luton not above 500ft (not me, but not heard in a bar either). Some fun to be had if so inclined :ok:

[The Dead Side]

Thanks chaps at GW, great service provided today :-D

[roofy]

Drambuster

Was closed as per the Notams for ALL flying including VFR. All French fields north of 48 north were ordered to close at around 1200 hrs Friday. Good news is now all open for VFR, normal over reaction. French are (to justify earlier decision) giving warning to exercise care and remind you the risk to your motor is yours!
Noted lot of activity on the various airfield web cams today no sign of ash but did see one guy smoking outside the terminal at LFAT :-)

[Katamarino]

Holland is STILL shut down to everything without an engine; are we now the only country with a blanket ban on GA?

[AEST]

Holland is STILL shut down to everything without an engine; are we now the only country with a blanket ban on GA?

I hear you can take a glider up if you install a mode S transpoder :O

[corsair]

I flew in an out of the ash layer several times today. It's only visible when you are level with it. But when you're in it you can smell it. So unless you can smell it's likely you're not in it. Also it had zero impact on the aircraft despite several climbs and descent through the layer which was quite thin where I was.

So for light aircraft no need to panic. Unless you plan to fly for an extended period in the ash layer. The stink alone will drive you out of it anyway. On the other hand I would tend to avoid any ash layer you could see from above or below. That might be nasty.

[It flies]

Dutch airspace still closed until at least 14:00 on sunday.

[IO540]

I think this whole situation is being handled in an incredibly inept manner.

Some airlines are going to go bust pretty soon. Cargo is rotting in warehouses... Stranded passengers are going to make huge claims on their insurances.

Nobody seems to be collecting data on where the stuff is and what (if anything) it does to engines. The Met Office quite obviously hasn't got a clue. The CAAs are totally lawyer-bound. And there isn't anybody else.

Somebody is going to have to get a lot more realistic pretty soon... but that's not the "European way" of doing things.

Eventually, airlines will collect some data and threaten legal action against the regulators. Then things will change fast.

['India-Mike]

I'm pretty sure that unless one flies through the plume of the volcano, flying through the dispersed cloud won't be a safety-of-flight issue. It's a maintenance issue, and so IO540's right - once the cost of lost business is greater than the increased cost of extra maintenance, the airlines will want to get flying again. Guess that's what KLM and Lufthansa have been up to this weekend.

[Fright Level]

I may have to rescue a couple of mates stranded in Europe tomorrow. Is VFR flight still permitted across to say Lille or Kortrijk?

[Sam Rutherford]

Pffff they closed the Brussels FIR at 0630Z this morning, until 1800Z.

Pffffffffffffff!

Sam.

[Fuji Abound]

Simon Calder, travel editor of the UK newspaper the Independent, says the airline Ukraine International (http://www.flyuia.com/) is planning to resume flights at 1000 BST as they believe "the skies are safe". They have reportedly carried out a test flight and are happy with the results.

KLM Royal Dutch Airlines says it has already carried out a test flight from Amsterdam to Dusseldorf and plans eight more throughout the day.

"I got a call from somebody, a very senior figure in the British travel industry - saying the only time aircraft have actually suffered is when they've basically flown right through a volcanic plume as the volcano was erupting."

Is there a growing suspicion that the risk may have been misunderstood?

[javelin]

Most definitely - yes :ugh:

[flap flap flap]

Well there is an upside to all this. Yesterday (and probably today) Gatwick were letting anyone fly along the runway at 400 feet!

[S-Works]

It's all a storm in a teacup. It has now gotten so far out of hand that they won't admit they were wrong.

Still it has been amazing flying for us over the last few days!!

[BroomstickPilot]

I should say, definitely not.

The essential thing about an eruption is that it is UNPEDICTABLE.

The amount of gunk it is spewing out at this moment may indeed be minor, (although I don't think I should like this stuff flowing through MY engines and sand-blasting their insides,) however at a moment's notice it could decide to erupt big-time again, when aircraft are actually in the air not too far away.

I suppose they could reduce the size of the no-fly zone to some extent. But I feel it is safest to let it die down completely, because only then will we have any reasonable certainty that it will remain safe.

Broomstick.

[nickyjsmith]

SOAP stands for Spectromatic Oil Analysis Programme. Its a system where by oil samples are taken from engines and checked on a regular basis to predict wear and/or imminent component failure. I used it in the FAA on Lynx engines.

[G-KEST]

The present generation of GA light aircraft pilots were probably in their cradles when stubble burning was in vogue a couple of decades ago. For weeks at a time any high pressure system trapped the products of combustion below the inversion level which could go up to FL100 on rare occasions. Visibility in the murk was miserable and there was much solid material in the form of ash that coated the surface of any aircraft whether on the ground or in the air. We endured and survived our excursions into the murk. Why not now.....?????
I fear the current risk averse society and ridiculous H&S legislation brings the need to warn of the danger we are exposed to by being alive never mind getting into the sky in a light aircraft.
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. If the CAA does not get you then EASA must.

Cheers,

Reaper 69
:mad::mad::=:mad::mad:

PS - I renewed my DA on Thursday in a Magister at Old Warden and flew a low level aerobatic display practice last evening at Leicester in our Skybolt. Sheer unadulterated pleasure.

[vanHorck]

Seems VFR is now allowed again in France

NUAGE DE CENDRES : Les aéronefs légers à nouveau autorisés en vol, actualité Société : Le Point (http://www.lepoint.fr/actualites-societe/2010-04-17/decision-les-aeronefs-legers-a-nouveau-autorises-en-vol/920/0/445386)

but that their website is overloaded and info about the French Aviation authority can only be had through foreign websites such as the FAA

Enjoy!

[S-Works]

But I feel it is safest to let it die down completely, because only then will we have any reasonable certainty that it will remain safe.

This is a volcano, not a garden bonfire. The last time it erupted it lasted 2 years........

This is a massive over reaction.

[cessnapete]

I agree, especially for low level flights. Went to Pwk from Reading area and return yesterday, VFR of course. Managed to get up to FL 100 for short time (SE turbo-Prop).
Not a cloud or sniff of ash to be seen.
As for the refusals of S/VFR in the London Zone, it defies logic! No ash, no airlines, no cloud and unlimited vis. Health and Safety gone mad.

[BackPacker]

G-Kest, bad comparison. The ash you're talking about is essentially soot - material that has already been burned and won't burn again easily. And if it burns it burns rather clean.

What comes out of the vulcano now is SiO2, which is very akin to glass. It will not burn, but rather melt under high pressure and temperature, and when it cools down it will form a glass-like layer on the inside of your engine.

It's a totally different kind of animal.

[mm_flynn]

I should say, definitely not.

The essential thing about an eruption is that it is UNPEDICTABLE.

And as such, it would be very wise not to be within say 150 miles downwind and 50 miles other directions as it might beltch up a think cloud ... but this cloud needs to disperse, and over a moderately long distance it is going to be the wind (predictable) and diffusion (slow). You are not going to be surprised by a sudden cloud of ash over Surrey!

[IO540]

It is a stupid lawyer-ish over-reaction. I am sure there is zero risk to any aviation anywhere in Europe - so long as the plume coming out of the volcano is avoided (which is easy; everybody knows where that is).

The amazing thing is that the airspace owners have been able to shut everything down without having evidence of the risk to aircraft and without even making an apparent effort to find out. I reckon they are going to get sued big-time by the airlines. I hope they do get sued.

[IO540]

Indeed, but how can you get significant harmful particulates when the horizontal vis is tens of nm?

oil samples are taken from engines and checked on a regular basis to predict wear and/or imminent component failure. I used it in the FAA on Lynx engines.

Oil analysis is done by most higher-end GA owners. I do it too. It's a good tool but I wouldn't say it forecasts imminent component failure - for that you look in the oil filter and if you find 10% of your camshaft in there.... :)

[Mungo5]

Precisely the point made by an NECN reporter this morning, as they were flying within a couple of hundred feet of the Volcano, in a helicopter.

It's more of an insurance issue.. Revenue protection by the insurance companies no doubt.:ugh:

[Katamarino]

IO540 - the problem is, if they get sued, then who pays for it? The taxpayers do. The airspace owners have a blank chequebook of our money, and zero accountability (or, it seems, intelligence).

[BackPacker]

Dutch airspace now open for VFR. Pirep mandatory.

RAC B)18 APR 2010 13:24 UTC C)18 APR 2010 23:59 EST (A0463/10)
E) DUE TO VOLCANIC ACTIVITY IN ICELAND AND THE RESULTING ASHCLOUDS IN THE AMSTERDAM FIR, ALL CIVIL IFR OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED. VFR FLIGHTS ARE ALLOWED AT OWN DISCRETION. AFTER COMPLETING EACH VFR FLIGHT A PILOT REPORT SHOULD BE FILED IMMEDIATLY TO VULKAAN(AT)KNMI.NL CONTAINING FOLLOWING INFORMATION: ROUTE, ALTITUDE, DATE AND TIME OF FLIGHT IN LOCAL TIME, OBSERVATIONS REGARDING (ASH)CLOUDS. EVEN WHEN NO OBSERVATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE A PILOT REPORT IS MANDATORY. WHEN EMAIL IS NOT AVBL A PILOT REPORT CAN BE MADE TO LOCAL ATC BY RADIO OR AIRPORT AUTHORITY. ALSO, CAA-NL STATES THE PITOT TUBE SHOULD BE CHECKED CAREFULLY BEFORE AND AFTER EACH FLIGHT AND ALSO INCREASED MONITORING OF FLIGHT SPEED AND HEIGHT INDICATION AND WINDSCREEN TRANSPARENCY DURING FLIGHT IN THE RISK AREA. POLICE, SAR AND HEMS FLIGHTS ARE EXEMPTED. SFC/FL245.)

[Lurcherman]

If you are able to fly in UK you are lucky. I have just spoken to the duty officer at the Danish CAA and they said the only thing flying in Denmark are the birds.
I flew round the cloud VFR on Thursday fron BIRK and was in severe clear all the way to Danish boundary but was forced to divert.
Been sitting under clear blue skies ever since. Can see my destination! Totally unjustifiable overreaction. Problem is they can't backtrack now without being seen to be alarmist. Bird Flu, Salmonella, Mad Cow disease, WMD all come to mind.
Director of safety at Danish CAA not working today as it is Sunday.
Who are these guys?

[IO540]

Katamarino - what would they get sued for?

In aviation, the #1 cornerstone is that the PIC (the "Captain" if you like ;) ) is the final arbiter on the go/no-go decision.

He has sat 14 exams teaching him every piece of crap including the name of some wind blowing in Hong Kong. And then some more when doing the Type Rating. And he has flown through all kinds of sulphuric acid muck; any large 3rd world city is just fine for that.

He is perfectly capable of making a decision.

Volcanoes have been going off all over the place since long before aviation, so there is a big body of knowledge on this.

In this case, the airspace owners seem to have hung their coat on an ICAO recommendation that IFR in CAS should be pulled if there is volcanic ash there. But this isn't binding.

What the airspace owners (the NAAs) definitely can get sued for is if they ban aviation without a good reason supported by data. "Caution" is not a good reason. The economic loss is running at about 1M/hour. And you can sue for an economic loss, for sure.

IMHO, the NAA lawyers need their heads examined.

One way to proceed - until data is collected and analysed - would be a ban on night flight in the relevant airspace. What you can't see can't do any harm. And with the high pressure around now, there isn't going to be much IMC; well not if your rate of climb is +5000fpm ...

[Katamarino]

Good timing, Dutch CAA; permit VFR again right at the end of a perfect flying weekend, when everyone will be going back to work.

[Katamarino]

IO540 - you're the one who mentioned suing. If they get sued for banning aviation, as you're saying, the money still comes from our pockets.

[Crash one]

Perhaps we in piston GA should keep quiet about how stupid "they" are, let them get on with it. All the time this goes on there will be less restrictions on airspace for us puddle jumpers.
If airlines go bust there may be less traffic about, they may even see a little sense in reducing CAS. Correction, I doubt that.

[Fuji Abound]

In aviation, the #1 cornerstone is that the PIC (the "Captain" if you like http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif ) is the final arbiter on the go/no-go decision.

IO540

Yeah, fair point IO, but I guess that would be the view from the GA perspective.

While the PIC in commercial operations will pay with his job and perhaps his license if he makes the wrong call utlimately it is his employer who are responsible for the SOPs and for carrying the can when it all goes horribly wrong - corporate liability and all that sort of thing.

and the trouble is it would be a brave operator who sactions the flight when the Met Office has rung the alarm bells, if if they could get aircraft into the system (which presumably they cant).

In one sense the Met Office / NATS has made it easy for the airlines by closing our airspace. If they had left the decision to the operators it would have been interesting to see what would have happened.

What gives Eurocontrol the authority to refuse to give clearances is another interesting debate, or perhaps it is some other authority that ultimately holds the keys? One suspects it must be each individual sovereign state that makes the decision but who, I am not certain. Presumably if we wished to open our airspace we could and although we couldnt launch aircraft into Europe perhaps we could launch to the Americas, although even then Eurocontol would have to "open up" the UK block.

PS I was just reading the our very own Gordie has now weighed in - you can imagine that when the full financial impact dawns on our not so bright leaders ways will be found to get the airline flying again. The volcano may continue ejecting ash for some time, but I have a feeling our airpsace will not be closed for the same length of time - then again I could be horribly wrong. :}

[HeathrowAirport]

Biggin had this today.
EGKB 181050Z 29002KT 9999 VA NSC 14/02 Q1015

[cessnapete]

How about this for overreaction. Farnborough radar will only give Basic service. No Traffic service. NATS advise that if the controller gives you a turn to avoid another aicraft you could be turned into ash and could then sue NATS! OK to have an air to air then.
Why is it deemed SAFE to fly in the Gatwick Zone but UNSAFE to fly in the Heathrow Zone. Less ash in the Gatwick Zone? Madness

[Tupperware Pilot]

Might be the wrong thread to post this but there we go?
A special thanks must go to all the controllers that have been very nice and let us GA types fly over/around (sometimes low) there airfields. I'm sure there are a lot of photos out there. Post here?
We did Birmingham today, a nice friendly controller on duty today. And I hope the girl with the dirty conservatory will have it cleaned soon!

[aviate1138]

The Met Office [renowned for its ability to incorrectly forecast our weather] is covering its grubby arse. They are terrified they might be sued if they dared to transgress the present concept of 100% safety [which is simply not possible]. Let the Captain of each commercial aircraft make the go -no go decision. They are the ones who are at the sharp end not the grey faces of the EU/UK Health and Safety madness.

[bartonflyer]

aviate1138 - that's absolutely ridiculous - commercial pilots operate to their company's standard operating procedures - the idea that you let every one of them make a different decision just beggars belief!

The authorities are between a rock & a hard place on this one - if they allowed flights to continue and a large jet, full of passengers fell out of the sky then the lawyers would have a field day (and rightly so!), I can't see how anyone can object to them taking a precautionary approach to this.

[172driver]

Not sure if this is correct, but according to the CEO of Germany's second biggest airline (Air Berlin), ALL predictions of ash dispersal and therefore airspace closures rely on one (yes - one) computer model run by none other than, you guessed it - the Met Office !

How anyone can trust ANY prediction from these muppets is beyond me. How you can base decisions such as closing most of Europe down on them beggars belief.

Again, not 100% sure of the veracity of the statement.

[Lurcherman]

Let's have some examples of piston engined aircraft being damaged flying VMC in the vicinity of a volcanic eruption/ash vs those not damaged flying in the vicinity of.

[coolbeans]

Biggin had this today.
EGKB 181050Z 29002KT 9999 VA NSC 14/02 Q1015

Damn pleased I was to, always fun to report different weather.

We had a call from thames advising that a thick layer of Volcanic Ash was reported north of Gatwick, approx 5000ft, verified by the met office (I dont know how either)

The metman suggested we stick that on the metar

[aviate1138]

barton flyer

I think you missed the point. I would rather rely on a Captains decision than wait for the faceless wonders decision in Europe to press the green light.

It is all to do with the threat of litigation and little to do with safety.

[G-BHZO]

Made it to Oban from Prestwick today, Scottish Info sounded fairly busy with GA. Was slightly surprised that the only other aircraft there then we arrived were 2 others from our club (and the Hebridean Islander). Thought it may have been a bit busier, although there were a few other movements while we were parked. A D-reg Seneca arrived as we were preparing to leave, apparently touring. Don't know when they left Germany, wonder if they are stuck here or if they managed to get out of mainland Europe around the restrictions.

Weather around Glasgow was pretty murky, so we sadly didn't manage to take advantage of the lack of commercial traffic :*.

Fisbangwallop.. thanks for the usual great service, although I think we were on frequency for a whole 20nm in the end (we were G-BOAH). Unusually, 119.875 started to break up before Lochgilphead even at 2,500ft, so didn't get the chance to say thanks! I am sure we can blame it on the 'ash'!

[HeathrowAirport]

Coolbeans, Glad I was not flying out of Biggin Today - I did smell a weird smell this morning, was really hazy aswell.

[It flies]

Dutch airspace now open for VFR. Pirep mandatory.So, have any Dutch pilots managed a low pass over Schiphol tower? Any photos, interesting PIREP's?

[Katamarino]

Ask, and ye shall receive! :ok:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs466.ash1/25596_672449513990_36912261_42455205_6949513_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs446.snc3/25596_672449533950_36912261_42455208_6154431_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs446.snc3/25596_672449518980_36912261_42455206_8113882_n.jpg

[It flies]

Excellent, congratulations Katamarino! I wanted to do touch and go's there during my lesson in the Super Cub yesterday. I'm glad at least someone made it. :ok:

Anything out of the ordinary up there? (Except from the lack of Boeing's in the air.)

[Katamarino]

Nothing out of the ordinary; we couldn't touch and go, but they let us do a 50ft zoom down Runway 22!

Schiphol ATC were excellent; top marks to them!

[fisbangwollop]

ZO...I think we were on frequency for a whole 20nm in the end (we were G-BOAH).

Yes that was me this morning, usually lose contact around Lochgilphead around 2000ft......I am still fuming though as I had organised a fly-in to Prestwick and then a visit to the unit from Leading Edge at Cumbernauld......I checked with my management team yesterday that it would still be OK and they said yes.......this morning I was told that last night the decision was made to say no.......the only problem is no bugger bothered their arse to tell me....meaning I had to do some last minute grovelling with the club to cancel..........does not show NATS in a good light in my opinion if they cannot even communicate with their staff!!! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[G-BHZO]

Fis...

"...I had organised a fly-in to Prestwick and then a visit to the unit from Leading Edge at Cumbernauld"

Not as good! How many of them made it down to Prestwick before you cancelled? I was originally planning to stop at Cumbernauld to pick up friends on the way to Oban, but the weather was pretty miserable there when I last called them at 1000z. The in-land Glasgow area still looked really murky as we past on the way up the coast.

In the end, we went direct to Oban and the Cumbernauld contingent stayed at home!

[SilentHandover]

cessnapete,

Heathrow control zone is Class A airspace so no VFR flight is permitted, only IFR and SVFR, neither of which are permitted. Gatwick control zone is Class D therefore you can fly VFR. Try getting a Gatwick zone crossing at night and you'll get the same answer as you would asking to cross Heathrow.

[Barnaby the Bear]

Cessnapete wrote:
No Traffic service. NATS advise that if the controller gives you a turn to avoid another aicraft you could be turned into ash and could then sue NATS!

Where did you get that reason from?
Besides, to be pedantic under a Traffic service they won't issue a turn to avoid traffic (they issue a turn for identification). That would be under a Deconfliction Service and as with all ATSOCAS the pilot is responsible for his/her own seperation. The pilot is also responsible for ensuring they fly within the conditions of their own flight rules.
:}

[172driver]

Katamarino

Nice pics, congrats on the fly-by!

Only thing is - you can do that at LAX any given day of the week, ash or no ash (bit higher, though). Goes to show how far behind we are in Europe :{

[Katamarino]

Yes, I've done it a couple of times at LAX myself! :ok:

[Fly Stimulator]

Here are some pictures from Gatwick this afternoon, taken during a pass along 08

http://www.arthurandarthur.co.uk/flying/gallery/gatwick/IMG_4630.JPG

http://www.arthurandarthur.co.uk/flying/gallery/gatwick/IMG_4633.JPG

http://www.arthurandarthur.co.uk/flying/gallery/gatwick/IMG_4636.JPG

http://www.arthurandarthur.co.uk/flying/gallery/gatwick/IMG_4637.JPG

http://www.arthurandarthur.co.uk/flying/gallery/gatwick/IMG_4641.JPG

[tunalic2]

£25 to land at Bristol!!!
I fail to see the attraction
sounds like a lot of money to me.
You can land all year at Old Warden for thatand visit the museum.

[werewolf]

Private VFR authorised in France under pilot's own responsability.
All commercial IFR/VFR flights prohibited UFN.

[IBMN]

AFP
A ban on commercial jets flying in Europe's ash cloud turned Switzerland's airport hub of Zurich into a a free playground for small plane fanatics.

."The airport gave us a present yesterday -- they allowed us to use the airport without any landing charges," Thomas Morf, who heads Zurich's Motor Flight Group, told AFP.

"We could also land anywhere on the runway. You could take off from here, land there, and then take off again. It was like a playground."

Some 120 Cessnas, Mooneys and Pipers took advantage of the crisis and the beautiful spring weather on Saturday to fly in and out of Zurich airport. "They came from Basel, Bern, all over Switzerland," said Morf.

Airspace limits turn Zurich airport into small plane paradise - Yahoo! News UK (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100418/tod-airspace-limits-turn-zurich-airport-7f81b96.html)

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Trust the Swiss to get it together.

I am afraid the Brits would have to consult Brussels first.

Landed LHR in a PA24 many moons ago, and a C172, to pick up fuel.

glf

[Nashers]

and i thought just flying over it for some pics was too much to ask...

well done to the swiss

[IO540]

Private VFR authorised in France under pilot's own responsability.

That's amazing. Normally, when I fly in France, it is the French President who is personally responsible for my safety, especially for my obstacle clearance ;) Typically French, to wash their hands of responsibility in this way ;)

[cessnapete]

From ATC Farnborough

[soay]

£25 to land at Bristol!!!
I fail to see the attraction, sounds like a lot of money to me.
Bristol have gone out of their way to discourage GA with their charges, so I have no intention of helping them out now.

[effortless]

Cars; just taken the air filter out of the old SAAB. Not a pretty sight after a few hundred miles. Hate to see the inside of a carb without a filter or a bore for that matter. The dust scratches paint and plastic.

[bern444]

Instructors at Fairoaks have decided not to instruct till the end of hostilities. Can't decide whether this is sensible prudent behavior or a job opportunity for someone.

[CharlieBrem]

I'm a Paris-based PPL (and owner) who happens to be a journalist. We're trying to get a picture of GA VFR traffic around France from across the Channel over the past couple of days. I'd be grateful if anyone has any anecdotes or info on pilots coming to pick up stranded friends (clients?) and so on. Things were as busy as usual when I flew into le Touquet yesterday. Controllers at Lille info were over-worked, the Paris area was quite calm.

[mixsfour]

I believe the Fairoaks fleet has been grounded by Synergy management both for instruction and self fly hire until VA has been ruled out as a factor in the crash at Andover on Saturday (which did not involve a Fairoaks a/c).

[effortless]

Airpolice
How much of it is new?
Effortless, when was the filter previously inspected?

First registered in December so not exactly old. The dust was obviously the same as on the windscreen. I have time on my hands so I thought I'd take a look.

[fuzzy6988]

With most of the UK airspace closed to IFR flight today due the volcanic ash cloud


I guess we're talking about controlled airspace here.

But something I struggle to understand. I would have thought volcanic ash reduces visibility, therefore one might opt to fly airways-IFR to get some some kind of separation from any other aircraft, assuming the pilot knows full well of his responsibilities as PIC, and the limitations and capabilities of his aircraft for the given weather environment that he is going to fly within.

If this airspace is closed to IFR, it means we must fly VFR or fly IFR OCAS, but I'm told Farnborough are not offering anything more than a Basic Service at present.

Therefore is it a:
1) Just fly at your own risk if you can't see what's up ahead and/or
2) ATC does not want to take the risk of vectoring you into ash (even though the weather radars might provide some info on where that ash might be)?

Or is there something else I'm missing here?

[OpenCirrus619]

Quiz: Spot the aircraft - how many can you see in the air?
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa191/FOTO4_bucket/STEARMAN/GATBALBO532UK.jpg
Photo courtesy of Richard Foorde.

I count:

3 Stampes
3 Tiger Moths
3 Turbs
1 Casa Jungmann
1 Pulsar


More photos & a few line write up (http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=21902)

OC619

P.S. I missed it as my group partner had the Cub (form which the photos were taken). :{

[BackPacker]

ATC does not want to take the risk of vectoring you into ash (even though the weather radars might provide some info on where that ash might be)?

That's what's the case here. Under ICAO rules ("recommendations"), ATC may not and will not vector you, or offer you an IFR clearance, into areas that may be affected by VA.

Weather radar detects moisture, not VA. So weather radar (either ground-based or on-board aircraft) is useless in detecting the ash plume. The only way anybody can know where the ash is, is the rather coarse prediction of the VAAC London. That, plus actual observations/measurements by aircraft in-flight.

Since the amount of proper environmental monitoring aircraft is rather low for such a vast area, the various CAAs and Met offices have now started to solicit input in the form of Pireps from pilots who have flown. With the current flight restrictions, that comes down to us GA.

If this airspace is closed to IFR, it means we must fly VFR or fly IFR OCAS

IFR OCAS is pretty much a UK anomaly. I doubt whether anyone knows the exact ruleset that applies in this rather unique case.

[fuzzy6988]

Got it! Thanks

[Alsacienne]

WOW! Tremendous!!:ok: :D :O

[fuzzy6988]

The joys of formation flying! Great pic! :D:ok:

[englishal]

Why don't they open LHR up to GA while everything is shut down? Charge £20 for a stop and go, proceeds to go to charity, and I bet everyone on here would zip in just to get EGLL in the logbook...I would :) Do the same with Gatwick and you could do a EGLL to EGGatwick (dunno the code :) ) cross country! When will this EVER be likely again?

[robin]

Dead right - they could make a lot of money doing that

[AdamFrisch]

CAA/Government gives PPL holders and GA aircraft owners a time limited exemption and allows them to charge for carrying passengers. Job done.:ok::)

[what next]

Your landing fee alone will be more than those passengers have paid for their low-cost tickets. Let them enjoy their extended holidays!

[Piper.Classique]

I got a free landing and lunch at Le Bourget on the weekend of International women's day. Lots of Cessnas, Pa 2x, one Stampe and my Cub. VFR transit of Paris thrown in. :cool:
Didn't even need to stop the commercial stuff for us.

[MFC_Fly]

Fisbangwollop, Not sure if it was your good self or your colleagues, but we had the good fortune of chatting to Scottish on several occasions over the past few days as we circumnavigated the UK.

An excellent service last Wednesday as we headed down the east coast from Dundee to Lincolnshire followed by an equally good service on Friday as we went back up the west coat of England and across to Belfast. Then, after 2 days on the ground due to the cold front passing through, another excellent service today as we tried to get from Belfast to Stornoway, but ended up in Oban (what a great place with very friendly people - highly recomend a visit!) for a while due to that damned weather blocking our route again.

Thanks to all at Scottish, a superb, helpful and very friendly service on all occasions.

From the 3 adventures aboard G-DC :ok:

[Tupperware Pilot]

Loads of great photos out there............
are there any good videos of all these "touch and goes"??

Photos: Boeing 757-... Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Thomsonfly/Boeing-757-.../1688263/L/)

[Lurcherman]

Help me out here. I can't find the mention of VA in any TAF or metar

[fisbangwollop]

MFC FLY..Fisbangwollop, Not sure if it was your good self or your colleagues, but we had the good fortune of chatting to Scottish on several occasions over the past few days as we circumnavigated the UK.



Yes could have been me as just done 6 duty days from Wednesday....interesting few days as I was about the only sector in the ops room chatting to lots of VFR traffic so fun for me to......now off on leave to build my son's house in Newcastle...:cool::cool::cool:

[Deeday]

Just to add a bit of silver lining to the ash cloud, aren't these pictures stunning? [originals, and a lot more, here (http://www.swisseduc.ch/stromboli/perm/iceland/eyafallajokull_20100416-en.html)]

http://www.swisseduc.ch/stromboli/perm/iceland/icons-eya-20100416/ejafjalla18apr2010-mfulle4289j.jpg

http://www.swisseduc.ch/stromboli/perm/iceland/icons-eya-20100416/ejafjalla16apr2010-mfulle4136j.jpg

http://www.swisseduc.ch/stromboli/perm/iceland/icons-eya-20100416/ejafjalla16apr2010-mfulle4145j.jpg

[A and C]

It is just the idiots who run the media like a good total shutdown story.............. one can't let the truth get in the way of a good story!

[bordeaux]

What is the big deal about landing at Bristol???????? Or even landing at Heathrow........Come on guys.....Have on your logbook? O well....You'll feel you are a great pilot after that!

[Lister Noble]

A C-130 just flew over here,probably from Mildenhall.
:)

[drambuster]

. . . flew to Barcelona (Sabadell) on Sunday from EGLM to pick up a stranded friend, via Bergerac and Perpignan, between 3000' and 3500'. Returned yesterday on same route. No evidence of any ash, no marks to prop, leading edges or screen and air filters completely clear after 10 hours airborne !

I would say it seems completely safe at low level. When I called NATS to make sure my flight plan had been accepted the fellow lectured me on 'poor judgement' etc etc. It turns out their concerns are based on computer model projections, not actual data from test flights. Not very professional in my view ! (I think he just wanted to make sure the taped conversation made it clear I was an irresponsible idiot . . . just in case !)

[IO540]

He has probably never flown in a plane - except when going on holiday, or on some expenses paid jolly.

Sounds like a good flight. Any reason for going via Perpignan rather than San Sebastian? It would seem shorter.

In fact I wonder how CAS transits might work right now. There is little or no CAT in CAS, so ATC have no reason to refuse transit of any airspace below Class A.

[drambuster]

Any reason for going via Perpignan rather than San Sebastian?

My colleague was stuck down near Marbella and in fact I did initially suggest San Sebastion as a pick up location to him ! However, there is a fast new train service up the east coast to Barcelona (6 hrs) so that looked much easier than him trying to get to the north west.

As far as flying to Barcelona is concerned via the west of the Pyrenees rather than east, I don't think there is much in it. Also I had to pack in all the flight planning within an hour on Saturday night as the whole rescue idea came up at short notice . . . . so I'm not suggesting this was definitely the best route. However, I already had Bergerac flight planned and in the Garmin as I've done that journey a couple of times (direct from Deauville to Le Mans and then straight over Poitiers where they are always very helpful even though the airspace looks congested on the map). Whether in or outside CAS the French air traffic were great all the way - no complaints (although none was class A). Flying VFR in France is a wonderful experience (unlike Belgium where I won't be heading back anytime soon . . . . but that's another story!)

Drambuster.

[OpenCirrus619]

CAA have just published FODCOM 11/10: VOLCANIC ASH – ADVICE FOR GENERAL AVIATION PILOTS (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FOD201011.pdf)

OC619

[fuzzy6988]

In fact I wonder how CAS transits might work right now. There is little or no CAT in CAS, so ATC have no reason to refuse transit of any airspace below Class A.

Maybe it's very easy if all traffic is VFR - it effectively becomes a ATSOCAS Traffic Service.

[G4FKK]

Just been listening to the 1st jet arriving at LGW for a few days.
Controller "I've been talking to cessna 172s all day - it's nice to see a real aeroplane"
Lady Pilot "ooo I'm a PPL and I've just had a bacon sandwich and want to transit your zone"

Welcome back you lot :{

[halo]

Hi Folks,

Here's the lowdown on why private flying hasn't been permitted at Heathrow...

Firstly, the Heathrow zone is class A airspace and as such only IFR/SVFR flights are permitted. Hence the Thames/SVFR controllers can't issue a VFR clearance. The CAA have mandated that IFR/SVFR clearances are not to be issued unless the aircraft is CAT A (Police heli, Medevac, etc). Essentially, a SVFR clearance is a slightly more relaxed IFR clearance which permits a pilot to operate with visual reference to the surface but requires the controller to provide IFR separation between aircraft.

Secondly, Heathrow's prime assets are it's runways. They are the key piece of infrastructure required once the volcanic ash has dispersed and as such HAL were not willing to expose them to any level of risk. There have been schools of thoughts floating around that because of the extra width of the runways (to allow for the A380) that the normal approach and landing perspective is distorted and as such could lead to a possible heavy landing. With the amounts of money being lost by the airlines while flights are suspended it was seen as too risky commercially to allow private flying in and have the potential for a blocked or damaged runway. HAL actually stopped people from going out onto the runways after a couple of days when they realised that people could drop things or lose things that wouldn't be noticed, which ultimately could present a risk once the airfield re-opened.

And finally, as the airlines essentially pay for the ATSOCA services (LARS, etc) to NATS through their en-route and landing charges (in addition to the small subsidy from the government) so that the service is provided for free to GA users, they were keen not present themselves with a situation (as described above) that could lead to further financial difficulties and place a risk on those services. The airlines actually like ATSOCA, LARS, etc because they help keep VFR traffic under control around the ever increasingly commercial control zones.

So, sorry we didn't get to see some of you at Heathrow.. I think most of us would've liked to see some interesting things visiting, but it was not to be. I hope that you all took the time to enjoy the fantastic weather and had some nice exploits while you could.

[fuzzy6988]

halo,

An informative post! Thanks.


too risky commercially to allow private flying in and have the potential for a blocked or damaged runway


Oh well...

I wonder how major American airports manage to accommodate light aircraft, even on a 'business-as-usual' day.

Specifically, how they assess risk on the PPLs who have just passed their checkride.

More parking space and a greater number of runways?

[Dan Dare]

I dispair with airports considering that my tonne of spamcan landing at 70 kts is a signifficant business risk to their runways designed for 400 tonnes landing at 150 kt in a crosswind.

I dispair with the CAA and NATS being unable to see that agricultural clockwork mice are not the same as jets filled with fare paying passengers How dare anyone from nats give pilots "a lecture about poor judgement" (WTF do they know).

I dispair that in the interests of safety there no ATSOCAS above Basic Service was made available. Where is the logic here?

I dispair that large pieces of airspace near airports normally available for VFR flight were removced from availability "for noise abatemebt reasons". What authority does anyone have to do this?

I dispair that some technical danger to some engines has any bearing on the ability of an ATCO to provide in IFR clearance - let alone a SVFR clearance. Why is it safe to flyt VFR, but not SVFR?

Our hands were tied. Honestly! I have been ashamed to be an ATCO so many times over the last week and having no choice, but to turn down quite reasonable and legal requests.

I know some GA pilots were able to achieve unusual, unforgettable flights - well done those who were able to accomodate them. I just can't believe how many we were instructed to turn away with no good reason and apologise to those that I had to say no to.

I will be making a report to the CAA in thew vain hope that next time we will not be forced to withold our services to you all.

[robin]

Halo

Thanks for that but it does sound like a heap of excuses to my group.

A "not below 500' " fly-by would have been possible, as happened at Gatwick - we'd even have accepted slot times for that.

As it was I went to Bristol who couldn't have been more helpful.

Their airfield too is their major asset, but they only have the one runway.

But - and I guess this is the real reason - I would bet a heap of money it was fear of a terrorist attack on a strategic asset