Situation Regarding The Flight Centre at Halfpenny Green

[Glugaball]

Hello everyone i am writing here to express my concerns about this airport. Basically back in december i had turned 16 and was blessed with a trial flight lesson at this airport which was a gift for me valid for six months. Naturally i was extremely excited until we recently found out Halfpenny had "Ceased Trading". Luckily though i checked their website to find out that operations had restarted. So my question here would be if i phoned the airport tommorow, would it be possible to book a trial flight or would it be a bit more difficult regarding the situation of the airport. I would hate to think that the person who gave me this gift had wased their money. Thanks for reading

[flybymike]

Are you confusing the airport itself with the name of the flight school or agency operating on behalf of the school? What is the issuing name on the voucher?

[Min Sink]

From The Flight Centre at Halfpenny Green : Private Pilot Training PPL : Commercial Pilot (http://www.hgfc.co.uk)PRESS RELEASE APRIL 2010 As many of you are already aware Halfpenny Green Flight Centre ceased trading early 2010 and subsequently entered administration. Recently, Jetstream Executive Travel purchased the equipment and property previously owned by Halfpenny Green Flight Centre. To clarify - Jetstream Executive did not purchase Halfpenny Green Flight Centre therefore all debts and liabilities are to be handled by the appointed administrator. The facilities and some of the faces have remained the same which has enabled operations to recently restart. Please contact operations on 01384 221456 for any further questions.

Reading the press release it looks like you voucher will be invalid as Jetstream Executive Travel didn't purchase Halfpenny Green Flight Centre.

I would give them a call and see what they say.

[pasir]

Hope all turns out well for Glugaball -

While on the subject of Halfpenny green is there anyone there who
recalls the arrival around 1984 of Cessna Rheims 172J G BCVI and what happened to it ?


Beleived may have been involved in aerial photography use.

[Glugaball]

Oh right i should have meant to say Halfpenny Green flight centre, my mistake. I havn't had chance to phone them just yet but on my voucher it says that it expires on the 25.06.10. But following the situation i would really hate it if this voucher would now be invalid. Considering how this voucher was actually bought for me as a gift 4 months ago

[mad_jock]

Contact the person that bought you it and find out if they bought it using a credit card.

If they have get them to contact the credit card compnay and they should be able to get a refund.

If they haven't bought it by credit card you are stuffed

[Glugaball]

well the person who bought it for me used a debit card so hopefully he may get a refund if this voucher turned out to be invalid. So i'm just wondering will i ever get a chance to have a trial fight at halfpenny green?

[rans6andrew]

who issued the voucher?

If it was Flights4all, I understand that they will offer a replacement experience or a refund as long as you approach them BEFORE the expiry date on the voucher.

Good luck!

Rans6....

[mad_jock]

Debt card has no protection

[modelman]

Anybody here fly from Halfpenny Green feeling generous enough to offer this young person a ride even if it isn't a trial lesson,next time they are planning to go flying?
MM

[DX Wombat]

who issued the voucher?The Flight Centre used to issue their own vouchers. They didn't use another company. I suggest you phone the number provided: 01384 221456 - that is the Flight Centre number but no doubt someone there will be able to help you.

[Glugaball]

Yes i will need to phone the flight centre and sort this mess out. I would have never thought that this would happen but hopefully something good comes out from it. Thanks for the info guys

[barker987]

i used to fly with that school and lost £350 with them that i didnt get back

[niknak]

i used to fly with that school and lost £350 with them that i didnt get back

Notwithstanding that the circumstances at 1/2 Penny Green may not apply here, how many more times are we going to hear this - another person who's been fooled into paying cash up front with false and vague promises from the equivilant of Pikies in the GA Business. :ugh::hmm:

My suggestions would be that those who negotiate directly with the CAA in various GA causes, lobby for the mandatory inclusion in every approval given by the CAA to the establishment of any organisation offering flying instruction, the clear and unequivical statement in all their advertising and statuary paperwork to clients that payment upfront, no matter what the discounts offered, should only be done by credit card or loan from a UK Bank approved by the FSA.

Unfortunately, as this sort of scam has been ongoing since flying was invented and those who pupport to represent GA and do have direct contact with the CAA, havent had the backbone to do anything about it to date, I can't see it happening anytime soon.

[madlandrover]

AFAIK the school now starting on the Flight Centre's old site isn't honouring any of the old school's commitments, despite still being run by the old MD. A friend called the other day to ask about a Christmas trial lesson and was told that the name of the new place was being kept as similar as possible to attract customers - I'm not sure this is legal?

[DX Wombat]

Notwithstanding that the circumstances at 1/2 Penny Green may not apply here, how many more times are we going to hear this - another person who's been fooled into paying cash up front with false and vague promises from the equivilant of Pikies in the GA Business.I also learned at Halfpenny Green and they NEVER asked anyone for money up front. If you wanted to pay some in advance then that was your decision but nobody was ever asked to do so as a matter of course.

[Glugaball]

Well when i checked their website it says that some opperations have restarted. Does anyone know what they mean by this, has some training programmes restarted or something different?

[madlandrover]

I'm not sure how they can claim to restart - surely since the old company was liquidated they can't restart??

[DX Wombat]

I'm not sure how they can claim to restart - surely since the old company was liquidated they can't restart??Same location, many of the same staff, similar aircraft, similar name, different owners.

[mad_jock]

They haven't landy they have used a nearly the same name to make punters think they will be going back to the same faces.

Anyone who has paid any money to the previous company will not see a single penny of it unless payed by CC.

Its just your commonal garden bollocks to do with Flight schools reseting the finances. Aircraft which we can't afford to lease buy, trail flight bank full... etc

np problem we will rape the trial flight captial strip all assets then go into admin. The aircraft that are fully payed for will be in someones personal ownership not the schools, and will be leased back at a tax defying rate. But of course all maint and upgrading will be payed for by the school.

wages won't get payed trial flights will not get to fly and the show will go on.

[madlandrover]

Same location, many of the same staff, similar aircraft, similar name, different owners.


Same location, 1 full time staff member the same (the former MD!), different aircraft...

I'm being a little unclear AH - it's a pedantic point of semantics. Surely on a company website where the logo and name on the main website has been kept the same you cannot claim to restart the operation of a company that has been liquidated? It's an example of the admin carelessness that ultimately brought HGFC down in the first place...

& yes, I agree with it being the typical fly by night flying school way of proceeding - although none of the aircraft were paid for in the first place, Diamond have already repossessed their DA42 which was always claimed to be the company's largest asset. Maybe the biggest asset should always be the staff :ouch:?

[LH2]

So my question here would be if i phoned the airport tommorow, would it be possible to book a trial flight

Just why did you not phone them to start with instead of wasting your time posting here?

In any event, since your query was from three days ago, I take it by now you have spoken to them. What was the outcome?

[mad_jock]

Maybe the biggest asset should always be the staff

Yep hit the nail on the head

[flybymike]

Just why did you not phone them to start with instead of wasting your time posting here?


If everyone did that we would have nothing to talk about on here....

[DX Wombat]

So that will make FOUR flying schools at Halfpenny Green! :hmm:

[Glugaball]

Well everyone i have now contacted them and this is what the crack is.
Well my pre paid trial flight is now invalid, the woman asked if the person used a credit card and i said he didn't he used debit so thats money out of the window. I feel so bad. However she did say that i contact this address she told me to write down so i guess i'm going to have to contact them to sort out finances. I also asked her what the situation was about the company "Restarting" operations, and she told me that everything was back to normal, under the new company Jetstream.
(I presume all training offered at Halfpenny is now offered from Jetstream?)
I was also surprised to hear that if i decided to train there they may offer me a small discount off from my PPL. Some interesting things that i've found out just. What are your thoughts?

[LH2]

I can't comment on the new company, whoever they are, but the old HGFC was run and manned by some truly decent, outstanding folk, the likes of which you don't come across very often in aviation.

I trained there hence I speak from personal experience.

[madlandrover]

Maybe the biggest asset should always be the staff :ouch:

The old HGFC was run and manned by some truly decent, outstanding folk, the likes of which you don't come across very often in aviation.

Agreed. As an ex-HGFC student I'm happy to call some of them my friends. It's just a shame they were let down so badly in the end by the management of the "new" HGFC.

[stevelup]

...the woman asked if the person used a credit card and i said he didn't he used debit so thats money out of the window...

Not necessarily. Visa debit cards offer some (limited) protection - it's not statutory protection like a credit card, but they will make some effort for you.

So if it was paid for with a Visa debit card, and not Maestro or Solo, it's definitely worth speaking to the bank.

[moggiee]

As stevelup says, it's worth asking the bank who issued the debit card if there is protection. Some do, some don't and for the sake of a phonecall it's well worth doing.

Other than that, I'm staying out of this discussion for now!

[Mr Man]

Hi! I don't know anything about the politics here,but if it's true then all I can say is that I'm very suprised as I have dealt with The Flight Centre and found them very professional and helpful.
I am not in the area often,but if you are patient and flexible then Im happy to give you a trial flight free of charge.

[madlandrover]

Bear in mind that the Flight Centre ceased trading in February. A new company may be using some of the former assets but it is not a re-emergence of the Flight Centre. Despite the Flyer weekly article the great majority of the former staff - including most of my own former instructors - have moved on to set up a new FTO at the Green with new funding and management.

[Piper.Classique]

Glugaball, check your P.Ms

[moggiee]

Despite the Flyer weekly article the great majority of the former staff - including most of my own former instructors - have moved on. In my case, to Abu Dhabi!

[moggiee]

A website revamp would help to avoid confusion - it still syas "FLIGHT Centre" all over it. They have new logos available (I made some up as a favour for them recently) and a few hours work by the website admins would be time well spent. At the moment it creates a poor impression.

[Pull what]

Therec was a flying school run by Ron Pearce under the tower what happened to that?

[DX Wombat]

Ron retired and his successor did a moonlight flit. Bob Kirk ,who eventually picked up the remnants, started his own school at Halfpenny Green but I'm ashamed to say I can't remember what he has called it. :O

[Cpt_Gurn]

Just to add to what others have been saying then a family member also had a trial flying lesson at HPFC. Unfortunately it was still unused when the Flight Centre ceased trading, a terrible time for all those involved (employee's and customers).

However, as Stevelup mentioned then you can be protected for debit card transactions. In the case of Visa Debit then the scheme is called 'Chargeback' and is for refunds in instances where paid services aren't received. A few time restraints apply but always worth a look in such cases. As such the family member received a full refund (eventually) and now it's down to me to take them flying apparently!

I've attached a link below for consumer advice so hopefully thats ok

Chargeback on credit and Visa debit cards - Your rights when paying by credit card - Your rights - Which? Advice (http://www.which.co.uk/advice/your-rights-when-paying-by-credit-card/chargeback-on-credit-and-visa-debit-cards/index.jsp)

[luckybrazi]

I fly from a field not too far from HG and can give you a flight Glugaball.

[madlandrover]

The waters seem to have muddied a little. A new company website for HGFC's replacement states that the Flying Centre has been in operation since 1992: About Us | Halfpenny Green Flying Centre (http://www.hgfc.co.uk/about/). One wonders then if vouchers could after all be valid, since HGFC is not a new startup??

[flybymike]

I am afraid that companies frequently reincorporate with the same or a similar company name but a different company registration number, in order to retain goodwill from their prevous incarnation but without any of the liabilities. I did it myself when buying out one of my competitors some 20 years ago.

No idea whether that is the case here, but if a limited company , then a check of company registration numbers at companies house might indicate the situation

[madlandrover]

Absolutely - the "new" HGFC is a trading name of another company, while the now dissolved HGFC did indeed have its roots in 1992. I'm not sure that a new company claiming to have been established since 1992 is quite correct though!

[The Old Fat One]

Flybymike,

All you say is true, but that does not allow the new company to present "false representation" through its marketing, either directly or by implication. To do so would invite a visit from Trading Standards.

Under "news" on their website it makes the situation clear, but in doing so points out that the present Halfpenny Green Flight Centre has nothing to do with the previous Halfpenny Green Flight Centre (hence the instruction not to bother turning up with "old" gift vouchers).

At best the website is confusing, at worst it is an attempt to give a new company a longevity it has not yet earned (irespective of whether or not it is the same pilots and aircraft).

I have no idea if this crosses the boundaries of acceptable marketing (not an expert in this area) but does that matter? Surely a prospective customer enlightened enough to check the company history would wonder about the ethical nature of this claim???

PS I am not in any shape or form associated with the aviation training industry in any capacity, merely an interested onlooker.

[moggiee]

Being pedantic, the new company is called Halfpenny Green FLYING Centre as opposed to FLIGHT Centre.