UK dispatcher license

[Dublinsky]

hi guys ....... i have the flight dispatcher license from Dubai GCAA jeppesen academy in Dubai ....

i would like to move up to UK ...... i wona know ... how can i convert my dispatcher license to the UK dispatcher license ...where to go ...... what type s of the exams .... which academy & is British airways has any institute for training ..............

and what are the chances to work as operations officer in UK .... London - Manchester - new castle - Bristol - Leeds - Cardiff ....... etc

flybe .. easy jet .... etc

kindly help me guys getting UK dispatcher license ....... even if i have to join new course from the beginning ..... it ok just tell me about any training center in UK give the dispatcher license

thanks

[no sig]

You do not require a dispatchers license in the UK, unless you are dispatching for an FAR121 operator. Your GCAA license should however, hold you in good stead as proof of training in flight ops subjects- which is required. The standard for this is ICAO 7192 D3.

[PNY]

The UK does not issue Dispatcher Licenses. They simply file a waiver of the requirement to have it's people have Flight Operations Officer (Dispatcher) ratings with ICAO.

This is because is is a sure fire way to keep people from unionizing in a volitile industry such as as aviation.

What you can do, if you are a Jeppesen graduate or industry experienced enough, is go to the U.S. and take a short course to get your ICAO FAA certification that is well recognized and considered the world standard all over... after all it was the U.S. that created the rating almost 80 years ago in the first place.

Either way, some experience will go a long way well beyond the EK College Jeppesen FAA course that is technically not an FAA course outside the U.S. and you should never be entitled to credit for such unaudited training to be able to take a short course in the U.S. but somehow the Denver FAA FSDO looks the other way for Jeppesen... so good luck and go for it, if you can get the visa to the states and afford it too.

Good luck!

[no sig]

PNY

I think your use of the term ICAO FAA License is somewhat mis-placed, there is no ICAO element to the FAA license, in that, it is not equivalent to the ICAO Doc. 7192 D3 Flight Operations Officer/Flight Dispatcher license training syllabus. The FAA license, as we know, is specific to US CFR/FAR requirements.

[boredcounter]

'This is because is is a sure fire way to keep people from unionizing in a volitile industry such as as aviation.'

Many uninions I could join fella, I choose not to..............

[PNY]

Both of you are right I guess. What I was trying to do was asssit the individual that started the topic to have something credible, be it dispatcher experience or a rating, that will get them employed, if that is what the really want to do.

I can tell you that Jeppesen goes around with their FAA syllabus passing it off like the FAA Certificate / Rating that it is not... even most of the instructors outside the U.S. do not have the FAA ratings of any kind, Jeppesen just manages to get the government of the UAE, Malaysia, etc. to agree to thier material, with about 2 hours of aviation law slides amended a bit, but the quality of the instruction and what the indvidual gets, in my opinion, is highly questionable considering the price that they must pay.

The Jeppesen web site still advertises that their Dispatcher course in Singapore, for example, is CAAS approved when the CAAS does not require any approval and any such previous approval expired a while ago. Where is the honesty there anyway, with a Boeing Company no less???

Employers know all this... but not the clients who are mostly from the third world who spent their life savings on such programs. Sad is the state of our industry... very sad indeed just to make a buck. Thanks!

[no sig]

PNY

What you are telling us is interesting- one assumes that if Jepp's is marketing an FAA dispacthers course then that should be acceptable to and lead to the issue of the FAA's Airman- Aircraft Dispacthers Certifcate.

[PNY]

Well, Jeppesen gives them some truths and mostly half truths.

It is true that it an FAA approved course, however, only in the United States where it is audited, instructors approved, and surveillance by FAA Inspectors from the local Flight Standards District Office (FSDO), etc.

Jeppesen tells them that they will be unable to obtain the FAA rating as they can no longer take the FAA certification Oral & Practical exam outside the U.S. due to post 9-11 policy. That is completely true, but even if the FAA Inspectors or Designated Examiners were allowed to resume Oral & Practical (O & P) certification exams outside the U.S., the Jeppesen students would still not be eligible as their course outside the U.S. is not under the audit procedures of the FAA and therefore, technically, not an FAA approved course regardless of the materials used.

Instead in Dubai and Kuala Lumpher student's get a National license, also embossed richly with the words that it meets standards of ICAO, and Jeppesen even makes extra money in Dubai by requiring biannual refresher courses as the licenses expire every 2 years...

Now most of the third world students get the certification in Dubai, borrowing heavily or using their life savings, as a means to support their families and the UAE government requires it so they do not have a choice and Jeppesen is the sole approved provider (Why???). In Kuala Lumpher it is not so bad, the airlines themselves issued licenses until just a couple of years ago so the training is primarily for MH to get experienced airline dispatcher's, glorified office boys sadly, re-licensed under the National authority. Almost no one from the third world rushes to Malaysia to do this as unemployment is high and the Malaysian government is unwilling to issue visas.

Some go to Singapore when they read on the web site that it is CAAS approved... is it really??? The CAAS left it all up to the airlines from the very beginning and then 2 years ago stopped approving such non-employer courses, including Jeppesen, as they did want to license individuals and audit such courses. Oh no, the web site leads you to believe that it is a CAAS approved ticket to a good paying job in a 1st world nation easily reached from the 3rd world.

Their newest gimmick is to have the course in India, never mind that the Indian government does not issued Dispatcher licenses without you working for an airline and experience and training well beyond what the Jeppesen courses cover. But oh no, it is American, so naturally the 3rd world improvised people fall for it...

Any other questions my friends...

[no sig]

PNY

Interesting, now that you have explained it in detail I can see where you were coming from in your earlier post. So the UAE and Dubai issue their own Dispatchers license against this course- even thought its to an FAA syllabus? or is a hybrid of ICAO and FAA- I wonder. Why would the UAe/Dubai issue a national license for a course that is geared up to FAR121 and the US system of weather etc.?

[PNY]

Excellent question, WHY does the UAE and Malaysia government issue a Flight Dispatcher's (Flight Operations Officer's license in Malaysia) based on a course that is geared for Part 121.

Each Jeppesen student gets an FAR / AIM book as well as the Gliem FAA ATP test reprint with answers that the FAA uses for the ADX (Aircraft Dispatcher's computer testing center knowledge test).

The only difference is that UAE & Malaysia classes get 2 hours of Aviation Law differences slides tailored for their country. The O & P exam is based on Part 121 rules, such as diversion alternates (FAA's 1-2-3 rule), takeoff minimums etc. All the slides appear old to me, tailored for an American audience, and yet it is delivered in and accepted by the UAE and Malaysia...

It is a hefty price to take the course, they jack it up to approximately US$7,000 (+ housing + meals + lost pay for 7 weeks) or so outside the U.S. to give an FAA legally unrecognized course that they hail as "FAA Approved" to mostly 3rd world working stiffs that have no choice as they try to avail themselves to a better life.

It is not over with just that price as Director of Jeppesen Academy and Manager of Eastern Hemisphere fly in as sole designated examiner's for both countries and charge them another US$300 (cash only accepted in US$ or local equivalent) for the O & P exam and then the UAE government hits them again for another US$300 for a 2 years licensing fee.

Oh but Jeppesen, a Boeing Company, says to them we are an "FAA Approved" course, somehow I just do not feel that way.. and then to the 3rd world folks no less.

It is my opinion that Jeppesen gives aviation a bad name... a real bad name!

[gjp737]

PNY,
So, what you'er telling is that JEP course in DXB and KUL is just a money making gimik ? ? ?

Secondly, I hold a GCAA dispatch license (JEP DXB product :ok:) and I want to get the FAA rating, anybody any ideas on that. . . still JEP DEN is good to go ? ? ?

cheers :cool:

[PNY]

Sure you can still get your FAA certification with Jeppesen in Denver and it will not cost you too much more than what you have already spent.

Technically none of the time doing the Jeppesen course at EK college should count towards the real FAA course in Denver, as explained above, but Jeppesen has a sweet heart deal with the Denver FSDO and they look the other way for some reason... sure would not want them to explain it the investigative agency for Congress, the U.S. Government Accounting Office (hmm, I wonder if they will read this too) someday... or The New York Times no less...anyway...

Now as a Jeppesen graduate you already know the powers to be at Jeppesen EK to write to for a request. If you get a visa with letter they email you for the embassy folks (tourist visa is easier) and have about US$1K + air ticket + hotel money they will surely take you in... you will join a class in progress and have to redo your 5th week and take the Jeppesen final exam again (out of the Gliem) and then do your flight planning practice in the 6th week of FOM2 and be scheduled for your computer knowledge testing and FAA O & P.

Also, you will NOT be out US$300 for the "REAL O & P" as the FAA Inspectors at the FAA Flight Standards District Office do not as government employees charge you a fee and, if you pass, you will walk out with a temporary certification. In about 2-3 months latter, you will receive in the mail a nice impressive credit card size document that you will also not pay a single cent for unlike the UAE GCAA which charges for just 2 years validity about US$300 (a krappy white organ donor design for UAE GCAA card), and that FAA certification you earned will be VALID FOR LIFE unless sooner surrendered, suspended or revoked. A duplicate if you loose the FAA card is only $2, not some ridiculous fee like the GCAA 2 year valid card.

At least with the FAA rating you will have something a bit more respected and versatile on an international front... it might even get you a real nice job in a place like Singapore... some countries prefer the FAA... it is better assurance that you proved yourself as having received quality training...

Any other questions folks... ask away... not everyone at Jeppesen is bad by the way... some genuinely care for you... and some of you already know who I am... :)

[gjp737]

Thankx PNY for the infor :ok:

I'll PM you soon . . . (Ohh..forgot I have you'er e-mail) :cool:

[Fe Ishenz]

Dear PNY,

Would you kindly do me a favor by directing me to which website i can browse to get more info/insight into the subject in question (FAA - Air Dispatcher's License)...

I have been in the industry as a ground (cargo) handling agent for over ten (10) years and is considering switching to something of the sort.

Looking forward to your response/feedback

[PNY]

It's not rocket science here, just go to Google search and type in FAA Aircraft Dispatcher Certification Schools.

Finding a school that wants your money is easy. However, getting a Visa to enter the U.S. for training can be hard depending on the passport you have and money will not assist you with that at all.

Since you have so much experience, try applying for "Operations Controller" with your airline and sooner or latter, if you are good, you will become a dispatcher without having to have taken the course.

Good luck!

[bala_murali]

Hi there guys . I am from india . i have done my bachelors degree in the field of electrical and electronics engineering . i have worked in dell computers for 2 years. I am planning do my flight dispatcher training in Emirates aviation college, i checked the course duration there and in some of the other institutions ,ITS WAS 7 WEEKS .. :ugh:
i have no previous experince in aviation field . keeping the topic of job oppurtunities aside , i would like to know whether ,just 7 weeks of training is enough for person with no aviation experience . Emirates | Aviation College, Aerospace & Academic Studies (http://www.emiratesaviationcollege.com/aas/courses/Short_Courses/full_time/Flight_Operations_Management_Level.asp) is this course tailored for new comers .. Do i have to do any other introductory course in flight dispatch before doing this course ? Thanks for your time guys .. :sad:

[merlinxx]

Just accept it "There is no UK/CAA/EASA" Flight Dispacthers Licence. Nor is there one required within the CAA/JAR/EASA mandate:ugh: A level of knowledge, yes, a requirement for "an Airmans Ticket" as per the US FARs, no.

What do you folks want ? I'm retired now, and have had the job for 50 years ! ask me question, and I'll try to assist, PM me.

Good luck.

[kkay]

hello guys..I want to join sheffield school for dispatcher course , but i want to know after getting my faa license what should be my next step as job market there in US is still slow and even more tough for non-us citizens. I am a bit confused or say a lot confused as i completed my ame (aircraft maintenance course-full 3 years regular) here in India..and no job apportunities here:ugh:..
plz do answer my query as I am waiting for valuable suggestions..
thkx

[Rick1982]

An FAA Dispatchers Licence will not get you the right to work in the US, unless you already have the right to work there. The official purpose of the licence is only good for those who have the right to work in the US and want to work there. The Licence will give you a good understanding and starting step into the world of dispatching and a nice shiny card (if you pass the course). I say that as a UK born citizen (without the right to work in the US) who has the Licence.

If you do decide to go ahead with the course I can tell you that I would recommend Sheffield School of Aeronautics in Ft. Lauderdale. I attended there and was very impressed. I know that others will tell you different (probably those who didnt pass the course - and there were a few!), but in my opinion they were excellent. DO NOT expect to pass the course and then get a job in the US. If you don't have the right to work in the US, IT WON'T HAPPEN!

[kkay]

ok if I get a FAA license, what are the job options in other parts of world apart from US (coz i don't hve work permit right now)...what are the best options after completing the course..is there in any openings for freshers?(I mean any sort of job in regional carriers in beginning) or only experienced guys are only taken...

[Rick1982]

kkay - I'd suggest looking for current job vacancies first before deciding what to do. See what they require of you. I would imagine that most will say; "5 years experience in operational airline". If this is the case then forget the Licence or qualifications for now. Go and get any airline job you can get. Sit it out until you have at least 2 years experience to put on your cv, then maybe consider getting a qualification (Msc or FAA Licence). Look at it as a long term plan. The Ops Dept in India my not require qualifications or experience. All the training my be given. Some airlines may pay for you to get the licence if required.

Just my opinion....

[desertopsguy]

As mentioned, getting yourself an FAA licence will not grant you the right to live and work in the USA.

I don't really agree with some of the other advice on here though...
The US FAA licence is not just for those who want to live and work there. I have had mine validated in other countries and was granted their licences on the strength of my FAA.

In many countries the FAA licence is 'the' standard in the abscense of their own standards.

Spending 2 years doing any old job in an airline is a waste of time and you should go get the licence first before you start looking for work.

Most airlines will not expect 5yrs experience to get into their flight dispatch office with the exception of the larger ones who do tend to look for more experience than the others.

As an Indian, you may need to contact your DGCA there and discuss whether it is possible to validate the FAA licence. Once that is sorted out you can look for work there.

If working overseas is what you want to do then you will first have to narrow down where you can work.

The Gulf region and Africa to a lesser extent would be the main source of opportunities for you. There are lots of jobs in the Gulf, particularly in DXB / AUH / RUH etc

Go online, find out what companies are in the region you wish to work, check their company websites for jobs and see what their experience requirements are, you might even find entry level position.

The toughest thing for a newbie dispatcher is getting that first job so if you do get a licence and are looking for a foot in the door then perhaps taking any airline job makes sense but I would definately take the licence first, not the other way around.

Best of luck.

D.O.G

[Rick1982]

desertopsguy...

This post is not ment to be arguementative, its just somethimes things are written differently as to how they are ment to be said (i.e. different tone,etc...)

Please can you point me in the direction of any ops/dispatcher job, with any size company, in any location (safe location and somewhere as a British Citizen that I will be legal to work) at any pay scale, that doesnt require you to have at least 1 year experience with an airline.

I have done exactly what you have advised kkay to do. In the last six months I have shelled out nearly £20k on achieving my FAA dispatchers licence, additional workshops on ETOPS, International Flight Planning and Advanced Weather Information. I am also about to complete my City and Guilds Qualification in Airline Operations and Dispatch. I have also completed my PPL. All in a six month period.

I agree with what you say that finding the first dispatchers position as a newbie is difficult. However I was one of the top 3 in my class and have no issues understanding what I have learnt. In the class there were 4 non US citizens. I was the only one not working for an airline. The other 3 were all working for airlines and all failed to pass the course. All US citizens that passed the course have subsequently been hire by small and large airlines. I have yet to get an interview anywhere.

Ultimately I believe that its getting the foot in the door thats the important bit. He /She may find an airline that given sometime may sponsor them to complete the FAA licence and save him a lot of money.

Like I said previously this post although it may sound it is not meant to be arguementative and is certainly not meant to be agressive.

Your advise please. Thanks

[desertopsguy]

Rick1982,

I'm not sure what aggression or argumentative tone you inferred from my post but I can assure that it was written with neither in mind, it was merely my opinion based on my experiences.

You've obviously gone to great personal expense to get through these courses and they complement each other in various ways.

The best advice I could give you is to be flexible but don't do anything too silly. Taking a job in a different airline dept, say check-in, may not be the best option as you could end up stuck there for a very long time.
Obviouslyy if you were under pressure to generate an income then that would take precedence.

You should keep a constant watch on the job sites and airline home pages to make sure you find out about new openings as soon as they crop up.

If you need more info then pm me.

Best,

D.O.G

[Rick1982]

Thanks for the offer. I will pm you later.

I didn't infer any agressive or arguementative tone from your post. I was making sure that there was no offensive tone taken from my posts.

Thanks again

[G-CFMX]

Hey guys,

The best way to get into dispatching is to go through a ground handling company for a low cost airline. i've currently been working for a ground handling company as a ramp agent for a while now and a few months ago i completed my Dispatching course. the course was paid for by the handling company and now im dispatching up to ten flights a day in each shift!

Then once you have had enough experience in dealing with the quick turnarounds and stress from; Pilots, ATC, Managment and The airport operator on each flight im sure you would have enough expereince to deal with the longer haul flights for a larger company, and this would definatly give yourself a huge advantage on apply for certain courses, and make you stand out from the rest!.

Good luck

[Rick1982]

G-CFMX,

What Dispatcher course did you do? When was it and who was it run by?

[Xpert]

sounds like ground handling dispatch (AAA / Hold baggage manifest / Turn-around co-ord etc etc) as appose to airline ops. A good source of experience, but there is loads more training to go and it costs a lot!!. :ok:

[wangus]

I'm reluctant to add my experience, but I will anyway as it may offer some insight. I "dispatched" for 7 years in the UK with one of the biggest handling agents in the world. We were held in very, VERY low regard by aircrew and airlines, and in even lower regard by the company paying our wages. As the previous gents/ladies CORRECTLY pointed out, there is no licence in the UK. The role (in my case) has become that of a load controller. No involvement in flight planning, flight briefing, performance, etc. They DON'T want you to be clever. Rather a "YES" man/woman who performs like a robot. Load control is now centralized, meaning all we did was tear the loadsheet off a printer and deliver it to the flight crew. I would give the role (IN THE UK) a miss. The three FAA licenced dispatchers in my company were held in the same low regard as the rest of us. Same relatively low wages, atrocious T & Cs, lungs coated with diesel fumes from prehistoric tugs and JetA1. (I have a frozen ATPL - yippee say the employed flight crew.)

[Xpert]

all very true .... but you cannot beat the smell of JetFuel at 0400 on a winter morning!.

[Rick1982]

I think we're drifting into that 'job description' area again. Those with an FAA Dispatchers Licence probably have very little desire to do what we know in the UK as Dispatching.

UK Dispatching = US Ramp Agent
US Dispatching = UK Operations Controller

I think this has been well documented somewhere here before!

[Rick1982]

Stick to looking in the US. IMHO India and Asia will usually hire from respective citizens. Middle East is where everyone is looking to get into.

People trying in Europe but supply way above demand. I got an interview last week but failed to get the job here in the Uk. I was informed afterwards that they had over 125 applications for one job!

Stick to looking in the US.
Good luck

[Booglebox]

I work for a small aviation-related company and we have Ops guys who have come into the company "ab-initio" with no prior experience of aviation whatsoever. And they are excellent at the job.

Rick1982, your bit about the stuff you've done (PPL, other training) in 6 months is quite impressive. If you are still unemployed feel free to PM me.

[Senthil_Kumar]

Hi Guys i'am new to this forum...:rolleyes:
I'am currently working for a ground handling company in pax ops department as a checkin agent or boarding gate agent , in india, for over a year now...
Am intrested to a dispatcher course , but wondering wheather Sheffield school is good or Jeppsen, Emirates college (UAE) ...:confused:
Basically A GCAA or FAA license..
Can anyone guide me here ....:)

Thanks

[desertopsguy]

No comparison between Sheffield and Jeppesen. Sheffield sets the standard, Jeppesen does not.

The FAA licence is widely accepted around the world, the UAE much less so.

Not much in the difference in course cost although cost of living while you're doing the course would factor heavily as you would be there for 6-7 weeks plus travelling home a day or 2 either side.

Visa for US might be more difficult than UAE for obvious reasons.

I heard, not sure if it is true, that Jepp in DXB is asking for new students to be working at an airline already before they will issue the licence, you need to check that out.

D.O.G

[Sir George Cayley]

EASA have no plans. Yet.

That's what they said before Cabin Crew attestations appeared over the horizon.

They appear to want a certificate or licence for absolutely everything. Talking about airport ops being called 'Runway Inspectors' :ugh:

So look out for an NPA coming to a website near you soon.

Sir George Cayley

[desertopsguy]

Everyone licenced and unionised what a wonderful world that would be :ugh:

D.O.G