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StudentATP
5th Apr 2010, 02:49
Good day,:)

Could anyone of you professional pilots explain to me, in simple english, the difference between a class endorsement and a type endorsement?

if someone has a B747-400 endorsement, would that be a type or class? or command endorsement?

I thank you very much in advance.

privateer01
5th Apr 2010, 03:15
I'll give it a shot:

Catagory

Class

Type Rating.


In decending order.

Catagory:

(1) As used with respect to the certification, ratings, privileges, and limitations of airmen, means a broad classification of aircraft. Examples include: airplane; rotorcraft; glider; and lighter-than-air;

Class:

(1) As used with respect to the certification, ratings, privileges, and limitations of airmen, means a classification of aircraft within a category having similar operating characteristics. Examples include: single engine; multiengine; land; water; gyroplane; helicopter; airship; and free balloon;

Type:

(1) As used with respect to the certification, ratings, privileges, and limitations of airmen, means a specific make and basic model of aircraft, including modifications thereto that do not change its handling or flight characteristics. Examples include: DC7, 1049, and F27; and




So lets break down the B747

Catagory: Airplane

Class: Multi engine Land

Type: Boeing 741 thru 748 EI 747-200, 400 etc

In the USA being that the aircraft is over 12,500 lbs (5700 kg in other parts of the world) you need a type rating.

Now your type rating can denote limitations....Example: Second in Command, Circling in VMC etc.

Remember Catagory then Class then Type.

scavenger
5th Apr 2010, 03:35
A class endorsement means something different, as least in Oz.

A class endorsement is an endorsement that includes several types of aeroplane. For example, a C402/421 class endorsement includes the fllowing types:

Cessna 401 (All models)
Cessna 402 (All models)
Cessna 404 (TITAN) (All models)
Cessna 411 (All models)
Cessna 414 (All models)
Cessna 421 (GOLDEN EAGLE) (All models)

Conversely, a BE-76 type endorsement, includes only the Beechcraft Duchess 76; there is only one model.

To answer your question about 747s, in Oz there is a class endorsement,

B747 wich covers:

Boeing 747-100 Series
Boeing 747-200 Series
Boeing 747-300 Series
Boeing 747SP

There is also a 400 series type endorsementB747-400, which only covers one type being the Boeing 747-400 Series.

I guess the authority considers the 100-300 and SP to be sufficiently similar that one endorsement is enough to qualify pilots on all types. The 400 series must be sufficiently dissimilar to the rest so a different regime of training is required.

The class endorsement that covers the most aeroplanes is probably:

"SINGLE ENGINE AEROPLANES NOT EXCEEDING 5700KG MAXIMUM TAKE OFF WEIGHT", which includes

"All single engie aeroplanes not exceeding 5700kg maximum takeoff weight, except for those listed elsewhere in this order as requiring a specific type or class endorsement."

Examples of aeroplanes that are not covered by the above: PC-12 or C208 Caravan.

You should get the single engine class endorsement when you get your GFPT:ok:

StudentATP
5th Apr 2010, 05:03
Very understandable. I just realised different countries have different ways of definition, that really broaden my horizon. :)

another question to scavenger, if I understand correctly, if someone is going to get a B747-300 type rating (if there is such thing), at the completion, they will automatically have a B747 class endorsement and is allowed to fly the other B747-200, B747SP, etc. correct?

or there is only B747 class endorement course to be undertaken, no such thing as B747-300 type rating.

and what about B747-400 type rating? with that, does it allow people to fly other B747-400ER, -400D, -400F etc?

Cheers mate! :ok:

scavenger
5th Apr 2010, 05:25
if someone is going to get a B747-300 type rating (if there is such thing), at the completion, they will automatically have a B747 class endorsement and is allowed to fly the other B747-200, B747SP, etc. correct?

When someone qualifies for the 300 type rating as described by the company Training and Checking procedures, they have the appropriate type or class endorsement entered into their logbook. In this case, it would be the B747 class endorsement as described above. The training usually refers to a specific type.

The class endorsement is the legal requirement to fly all types included in the class but you would still need to satisfy company training and checking requirements before actually operating on various types within the class.

The aeroplanes included in a particular class probably vary from country to country.

and what about B747-400 type rating? with that, does it allow people to fly other B747-400ER, -400D, -400F etc

In Oz, the B747-400 type endorsement covers B747 Series 400 aeroplanes, all models and variants.

privateer01
5th Apr 2010, 05:41
Its two countries separated by a common language.

Reference the Cessna 400 series.....

Its still Catagory, Class, type.......Aeroplane (it Oz so its not airplane), Multiengine land, Cessna 400 series type.

Kind of semantics....but its basically the same thing using different wording.

On my Ozzie ATP I have a DA20/200 endorsement.....

i've never even seen a Falcon 200....but CASA gave me an endorsement.

747-400.....no engineer. SP well different than the 400

StudentATP
5th Apr 2010, 07:09
privateer01, are you a falcon 2000 pilot? its a pleasure to meet you.:) cos I like falcon aircraft very much. and I guess you have the privilege to fly 7X, 900, etc. correct? or they are of different types.

and scavenger, you are saying that on top of australian regulation, company will have check and training procedure for their pilots. that is, a pilot working for a company with a fleet of B747, he/she will have a b747 class endorsement according to the law, but will also have a specific type endorsement according to the compnay so as to satisfy the company.:bored: yes? no?

StudentATP
5th Apr 2010, 07:15
looking at the australian aviation law, Citation 750 is considered to be a class endorsement but not type endorsement. but isnt there only one type in the class (citation 750)?

scavenger
5th Apr 2010, 13:42
you are saying that on top of australian regulation, company will have check and training procedure for their pilots. that is, a pilot working for a company with a fleet of B747, he/she will have a b747 class endorsement according to the law

Yes

but will also have a specific type endorsement according to the compnay so as to satisfy the company

Not an extra type endorsement, the endorsement is the class endorsement. However, the pilot must satisfy the training and checking requirements for each type they propose to fly. Even a pilot employed by an airline who already has the applicable endorsement must complete the training and checking before operating.

but isnt there only one type in the class (citation 750)?

Yes, for now. You seem to have found CAO 40.1.0 and you will notice that several classes cover only one type in them to date.

A37575
5th Apr 2010, 14:02
If a person wishes to undertake a B737 Command type rating at own expense (as distinct from a Copilot Rating), is it legal for the training be carried out in the left (captain) seat? - or does the trainee have the choice of training in either seat? The question applies to pilots undergoing training in Australia.

Similarly, can a trainee undergoing a copilot endorsement legally undertake all his simulator training in the captains (left ) seat if he chooses to do so.

privateer01
5th Apr 2010, 15:51
privateer01, are you a falcon 2000 pilot? its a pleasure to meet you. cos I like falcon aircraft very much. and I guess you have the privilege to fly 7X, 900, etc. correct? or they are of different types

No...wish I was. Its a separate type or "Class endorsment"

I've just flown all the 20 varients both Cf-700 and TFE-731.

The 200 was post 20 and pre 2000.....not alot of them around. In fact I've never seen one except in pictures lol