What is a pilot union?

[BritishMidlandMan]

I would be interested to hear some views and thoughts on what the community feels a pilot union should be there to achieve and do for us professional pilots like the majority of PPRuNe members.

I am a captain with a large UK airline on the bus and at a dinner with a neighbour last night the issue of BALPA came up. We are both long term members but not active. He is with BA and I am with BM.

He said he felt the union was in fact not a union but simply an association people for which he was a member for pay negotiations and in case one dark night he went off the end..... He went on to say that as a 757 pilot he was frequently being exposed to oil fumes and yet the union failed to enforce the COSHH and other regulations that exist to protect him. He claimed that BA had never even done a risk assessment on these matters and the union simply turned a blind eye with a Health and Safety structure that was non existent. He said the IPA had been more effective than BALPA in helping him and he wasn't even an IPA member. His clear disappointment made me think.

I have always seen BALPA as an insurance policy and although I am aware of the fumes issue, its not a common event on the bus although I have experienced its effects a few times. BALPA for me has got me pay rises, campaigned ineffectively on flight time limitations and that's it really.

By the end of the evening he had convinced me, BALPA isn't a union really as I imagine a union should be although I pay the money. I wish it had more guts.

Hence the request to know what people expect a union to be around the world.

[beamer]

Whisper it quietly, but the majority of members in my experience ( and yes, I've been a member of more than ten years ) actually belong to BALPA simply because of a perceived insurance policy if that dark night ever arises. Don't get me wrong, some CC's have worked wonders over the years but in an economic climate such as that we enjoy today, too much emphasis may- repeat MAY - be placed on protecting benefits enjoyed by the top end of the seniority list rather than enhancing the prospects of the majority.

Whatever BALPA may be it is not a professional association in the same manner as the GMC or the Law Society - whether it qualifies as a Union per se is open to discussion.

[Expect to walk]

Your thoughts on BALPA, could be said to be true of many/most unions. I've no experience of the world of aviation but I was a Unison official for many years. We found a lot of individuals would join to protect themselves if something went wrong for them in the workplace. They tended to see the union as being a reactive organisation that would dispense advice and give access to free legal help if necessary. By and large the proactive stuff the union tried to do wasn't highly regarded. I recruited many individuals when their personal position in the workplace was threatened yet none because there were day to day improvements in health and safety to be addressed.

[dontdoit]

BMM, get a grip of yourself! BALPA isn't some great big machine that can be wheeled out as and when required, you are BALPA. What have you ever done to further your own (collective) cause? Apathy and/or expecting that others will do "it" will get you nowhere. Rather than complaining, time to step up to the plate methinks.

[DB6]

Dontdoit, when you pay that amount of money you don't expect to have to do the job yourself.

[call100]

Dontdoit, when you pay that amount of money you don't expect to have to do the job yourself.
Oh dear! it's not wonder that conditions of employment are on the slide>>>:ugh:

[Dan Winterland]

Now, who here is old enough to remember the 1973 song by the Strawbs? The lyrics go:

Now I'm a union man
Amazed at what I am
I say what I think
That the company stinks
Yes I'm a union man.

When we meet in the local hall
I'll be voting with them all
With a hell of a shout
It's out brothers out
And the rise of the factory's fall.

Oh you don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
Till the day I die, till the day I die.

As a union man I'm wise
To the lies of the company spies
And I don't get fooled
By the factory rules
'Cause I always read between the lines.

And I always get my way
If I strike for higher pay
When I show my card
To the Scotland Yard
This what I say.

Oh you don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
Till the day I die, till the day I die.

Before the union did appear
My life was half as clear
Now I've got the power
To the working hour
And every other day of the year.

So though I'm a working man
I can ruin the government's plan
Though I'm not too hard
The sight of my card
Makes me some kind of superman.

Oh you don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
Till the day I die, till the day I die.

Says it all. Who is the union? You are the union!

[beamer]

Not The Scaffold but the magnificent Strawbs fronted by Dave Cousins and sometimes the mercurial Rick Wakeman on keyboards !

nb - got to number two in Jan 73

[Piltdown Man]

...protecting benefits enjoyed by the top end of the seniority list rather than enhancing the prospects of the majority.

And that was what was wrong with the CC in the days of Air UK. And from what I hear, the same happened in a few other companies. In our case a nasty little dwarf who ran the CC feathered his and his cronies' nests very nicely. Come more modern times, we had some of the most amazing of Chairmen who (with the rest of the CC and our BALPA rep.) negotiated some very worthwhile settlements for ALL members.

...when you pay that amount of money you don't expect to have to do the job yourself.

Well actually, you do. As Dontdoit says "you are BALPA." If you want improved terms and conditions you'll have to get them for yourself. BALPA will help you and your colleagues and they will have to stand behind you when you negotiate on their behalf. Unless of course, you are happy with your lot, when you can give yourself a 1% pay rise by cancelling your membership. And when enough of your colleagues do the same, you'll be ripe for the picking. But you will have saved your subs. Best of Luck.

PM

[AEST]

I would be interested to hear some views and thoughts on what the community feels a pilot union should be there to achieve and do for us professional pilots like the majority

Ensure high salaries for union members and unemployment for the rest :ugh: