IFR Flight Plan

[mccourtm]

When flying an across water route that is outside of CAS, is there any advantage in filing and IFR flight plan?
Also, if the destination airfield does not an have instrument approach, can you fly IFR all the way, or must you change to VFR at some point before arrival?

Cheers.

[bookworm]

When flying an across water route that is outside of CAS, is there any advantage in filing and IFR flight plan?

FPLs serve, in essence, three purposes:

1) They pre-notify ATC of your flight details, allowing ATC to coordinate and plan accordingly.

For a flight substantially in controlled airspace, this is essential. For a flight outside controlled airspace, or one that enters it only for a brief arrival, departure or transit, the utility is much less.

2) They set up a S&R facility if you don't turn up at your destination when expected (subject in the UK to the quirks about arriving at an airport with no ATSU).

That seems like a very good reason to file an FPL for an overwater flight.

3) They serve a regulatory purpose, allowing a limited amount of tracking and planning by non-ATC interested parties. Thus for an international flight, a FPL is mandatory, though it does not relieve you of other notification responsibilities to e.g. customs.

Also, if the destination airfield does not an have instrument approach, can you fly IFR all the way, or must you change to VFR at some point before arrival?

In most states, you can arrive under IFR and make a visual approach. There are some exceptions, for example Germany, where IFR is not permitted in class G.

[mccourtm]

Thanks Bookworm. I understand the need for a fligh plan. But is there any advantage in filing an IFR FP as opposed to a VFR FP?

[IO540]

But is there any advantage in filing an IFR FP as opposed to a VFR FP?

Not wishing to sound funny but such a question makes one wonder if the person has got completely the wrong end of the stick.

The OP is in ireland, and anywhere outside the UK requires a full IR for any IFR flight. And by the time you have done the full IR you will know about this stuff anyway...

In the UK it would be a highly valid question ;) To which the answer would be: not a lot of point in filing IFR unless one is filing a high altitude / Eurocontrol route.

But outside the UK, VFR and IFR flight plans are associated with a completely different way of flying. The latter is on routings which need to be approved by the computer in Brussels.

[mccourtm]

Thanks IO540, I have an IMCR and it's N.I that I fly in. I was just curious though to see if there was any real advantage with going IFR.

Regards,

[bookworm]

But is there any advantage in filing an IFR FP as opposed to a VFR FP?

Ah OK. I didn't realise that was the comparison you were making.

Probably not. An IFR FPL will go to CFMU. In general that has the advantage that you're in the system and it gets coordinated with the relevant sectors of London Control etc. But if you're sure you're not going to be in controlled airspace, that's no advantage.

What I would say is that if you're qualified and equipped to fly IFR in controlled airspace, it's much easier to file it that way and then decide to avoid controlled airspace (e.g. by flying at lower level) than the other way round.

[aluminium persuader]

PS if you file IFR the friendly computer in Brussels may hit you with route charges!

[englishal]

Can you not address your FP (Via AFPEx) to any Class D en-route though, and that way they would know of you before your arrival? Would that perhaps aid a D transit when IFR?

[IO540]

In theory yes but I am told they will just ignore it. It won't do what you obviously really wanted which is to expedite (or allow) a transit of the airspace.

[HershamBoys]

CAP 694 is clear on the rquirements concerning the filing of flight plans

"When to File an FPL
2.1 An FPL may be filed for any flight.
An FPL must be filed in the following circumstances:
Type of Airspace / Flight Type of FPL
all flights within Class A Airspace - only IFR plans allowed
all flights within any Controlled Airspace in IMC or at night (including those operating under SVFR) - IFR plans
all flights within any Controlled Airspace, if the flight is to be conducted in accordance with IFR - IFR plans
all flights within Class B - D Controlled Airspace irrespective of weather conditions - IFR or VFR plans
any flight from an aerodrome in the United Kingdom, being a flight whose destination is more than 40 km from the aerodrome of departure and the aircraft Maximum Total Weight Authorised exceeds 5700 kg - IFR or VFR plans
all flights to or from the United Kingdom which will cross the United Kingdom FIR Boundary - IFR or VFR plans
any flight in Class F Airspace wishing to participate in the Air Traffic Advisory Service

[IO540]

Indeed, but that doesn't tell you how (or indeed if) the recipient is going to act on it in any way whatsoever.

Let's say I fly from Lydd to Newquay.

I plan to get a transit of the Solent Class D airspace.

I file the FP from EGMD to EGHQ as normal, VFR or IFR. Via SAM.

I also address it to EGHHZTZX and EGHIZTZX (and the xxxxZPZX versions for good measure :) ) in the hope that this will enable, or expedite, a transit when I get there...

IMHO, AFAIK, this will not do anything at all and the Solent controller will probably take one look, notice the flight is nothing to do with them, and bin it.

That is the way the UK works. You have the "VFR ghetto" (Class G) and you have the "professional pilots' airspace" (Class D and A) and the two rarely meet. They meet when somebody from the former wants a transit of the latter, in which case you get a special dispensation just for that bit of airspace. They meet if you are on a full IFR / Eurocontrol flight plan (which practically needs an IR) but then the whole flight will be in CAS and you won't be talking to Solent anyway (it will be London Control on that whole example flight) and if you drop out of CAS for any length of time, LC will summarily drop you in the "VFR/OCAS" dustbin :)

In much of Europe, particularly France, they have an integrated "known traffic" system, with your flight plan being accessible (apparently) to every ATCO, so they can see you coming, and the resultant radio work comprises of "hello Nxxxx, radar contact" followed by silence as you fly straight through their Class D on the filed route :)