Overhead Baggage anyone [Archive]

jimtherev

27th Mar 2010, 12:18

I don't see how my airline is making a buck from allowing passengers to bring on a large bag into the cabin without a weight restriction free of charge!. It's greed from the passengers. So used to paying $10 for a one way ticket they don't want to pay another $10 to put their bag in the hold.

And then they get pi**ed at us for not having enough room to stow the baggage in the cabin!
The LoCo airline's principal marketing thrust is - get your flights for 99p. Now we all know that this conceals the truth about how much we actually pay, and we're aware that we're going to get stuffed with all the add-ons the company can get away with. So we're going to take advantage of all the t&c's which are offered.
If this means that the cabin crew are going to be inconvenienced by this, then tough. We've bought your product on your terms. That's not greed - it's market forces and the PAX's response to them. Live with it.

Seldomfitforpurpose

27th Mar 2010, 14:16

I don't see how my airline is making a buck from allowing passengers to bring on a large bag into the cabin without a weight restriction free of charge!. It's greed from the passengers. So used to paying $10 for a one way ticket they don't want to pay another $10 to put their bag in the hold.

And then they get pi**ed at us for not having enough room to stow the baggage in the cabin!

Sorry but there really is no rocket science here.

We just flew with Virgin from Gatwick to Montego Bay. Our baggage entitlement is one piece of hold luggage each (max 23 Kgs) and one piece of hand baggage each. We check in one standard suitcase each and get on board with a small back pack/ handbag each, no problems.

When we fly with Ryan Air/Easy Jet etc there is no hold baggage allowance hence we purchase a max size carry on case. If everyone does the same just where are we all going to put these cases as the overhead bins will not take them all.

If the airline allowed us a piece of hold luggage as part of the ticket cost that is the option we would take and your problems would disappear, so blame your airline for trying to make a buck as opposed to us pax trying to save a buck :ok:

Two-Tone-Blue

27th Mar 2010, 18:35

It is also particularly helpful when airlines use the overheads to stow crew equipment, like the safety demo kit and other things .

As the airlines play the 'baggage game' to the hilt, they need also to consider finding somewhere on the ac for the crew stuff - ideally [U]not in areas that the SLF are paying to use.

Seldomfitforpurpose

27th Mar 2010, 18:46

Wonder how Ryan Air etc would cope if a full complement of pax on one of their 737's got on with a carry on suitcase each, would be absolute bedlam :p

girtbar

27th Mar 2010, 21:42

One of the biggest steps back in regards to air saftey is the "bring everything including a Grand Piano" mentality to hand baggage!

Seldomfitforpurpose

28th Mar 2010, 01:11

One of the biggest steps back in regards to air saftey is the "bring everything including a Grand Piano" mentality to hand baggage!

Nail head hit :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Dairyground

28th Mar 2010, 19:25

Sure we can make room in the overhead lockers. All that "crew stuff" is sooo unnecessary. Lets see which of these items would you like us to throw off the aircraft?

First aid supplies
Spare life jackets
Resus equipment
Emergency oxygen
Fire Extinguishers
Life rafts
Infant seat belts
Sick bags
Cleaning supplies
Bin liners
Paper towels and toilet paper

Where did all these essential items go in the days before they put doors on the shelf that was there to hold lightweight things such as gentlemen's hats?

marlowe

28th Mar 2010, 19:36

Well a lot of it was not onboard.

TightSlot

28th Mar 2010, 19:39

It is also particularly helpful when airlines use the overheads to stow crew equipment, like the safety demo kit and other things [unidentified].

The equipment that you write about is mandated by the licensing authority: It is not an airline choice. The location of the equipment is authorised by the same authority based on safety criteria e.g. Fire Extinguishers near to galleys/toilets, equipment to be removed from aircraft to be near exits etc.

Much of the safety equipment mentioned by AirborneSoon was not available, or mandated at the time of open hatracks - hence they were not stowed anywhere.

As the airlines play the 'baggage game' to the hilt, they need also to consider finding somewhere on the ac for the crew stuff - ideally not in areas that the SLF are paying to use.

The SLF are paying to use the seats also - I assume therefore that given that the seatbelts and buckles and the safety cards impinging on that space, you also require these items to be removed.

The issue of overhead compartment space is not one that will be materially affected by the removal of supplies and equipment from these areas: This isn't a solution, it's just sniping.

Dairyground

28th Mar 2010, 20:22

The issue of overhead compartment space is not one that will be materially affected by the removal of supplies and equipment from these areas: This isn't a solution, it's just sniping.

I apologise if my remarks about hatracks were interpreted as sniping at cabin staff, airlines or licencing authorities. Rather, I was intending to hint that in the days whe a gentleman wore a hat, we all managed without cumbersome carry-on luggage.

However, one thing that has surprised me recently is observing, when boarding one aircraft type, a fire extinguisher and a portable emergency oxygen container adjacent to each other and very similar in size in the doorway. It is unlikely that anyone would pick up the fire extinguisher instead of the oxygen, but I'm not so sure that the reverse could not happen in the presence of smoke. Do the authorities really approve this adjacency?

TightSlot

28th Mar 2010, 21:35

Do the authorities really approve this adjacency?

Yes

Only kidding... The airlines make it all up to suit themselves - No Really!

sitigeltfel

29th Mar 2010, 08:43

Wonder how Ryan Air etc would cope if a full complement of pax on one of their 737's got on with a carry on suitcase each, would be absolute bedlam

I have seen this happen. Excess cabin baggage is taken down the steps and put in the baggage hold. It is waiting for the pax when they disembark, along with the baby buggies etc.

This does not stop the pax who have their baggage removed from complaining though. The common theme is "I was on before him so I want my bag with me" or " there is stuff in there I need during the flight".

lowcostdolly

29th Mar 2010, 12:07

Yes it happens. On my LGW-BFS several mounths ago I was securing my area and found a large box by the pax feet. It fitted in the bin (just) but he told me it was "too fragile to go up there". I asked what was in the box..... it was a bathroom cabinet :eek:

As a Pu on LowCo I think Girtbar has it in one and I shouldn't say this as my company would not agree on principle. The amount of stuff that pax cram into a non weight restricted cabin bag is unsafe. They want to avoid the hold charges and why wouldn't they. Most if not all of what they have in there is not essential for that flight however.

And the bag crates seem to be so much bigger downroute for the same dimentions.....any other crew find this :confused:

I cannot speak for what happens on FR if all pax turn up with a correctly sized cabin bag (unlikely) but I can say what happens at my lot.

On a flight from a certain italian airport on a 319 (156 pax capacity) 102 pax turned up with the contents of their houses crammed into their hand luggage which seemed to have cleared all ground channels. Because i have time pressures to board we don't argue on the steps but allow the SLF to sort it in the cabin.

When they can't the CC tag the bags and offload them to the hold after asking the pax to remove "essentials" that is medication, travel docs, nappies....

The poor dispatcher then has to drag all this down the steps to the hold so EZY avoid handling charges for that bag.......

Loco do exploit the luggage issue in the name of revenue......I don't deny this and I'm not saying this is right.

And to the "sniping" SLF who think we should place the emergency equiptment elsewhere to accomodate your luggage where would you suggest?

It's not much use to us/pax in the hold and stowing it in the galleys means reduced catering.....

And yes the CAA have an input here.....airlines do not just do their own thing. We have to be approved.

Mr Optimistic

29th Mar 2010, 16:08

Is the stuff about hat racks a joke and I am just a bit slow ? Were there ever really hat racks on passenger jets ? Oh, and as for carry on baggage it should be banned: you can't progress to your seat because of some dope blocking the aisle trying to wrestle luggage upwards (and then the other one checking to see if the precious clothing they put in was in danger of being crushed). Make the stowage bins smaller.

Rwy in Sight

29th Mar 2010, 16:47

And as I am about to abandon PPRuNe for 90 minutes, may I respectfully point out that SLF tend to carry everything on board as they tend not to trust the baggage handling system. It always amaze me how soon I am outside the terminal building if I don't have to wait for my baggage to arrive. And I am one of those luck ones that I have my baggage received late (the next day) just twice in my memory.

And also crews have also very little confident on the system that they carry their baggage with them in the cabin.

So I understand the SLF carrying everything with them.

Rwy in Sight

Ozzy

29th Mar 2010, 18:47

Flew on United last week, four legs. Each sold out (oversold). Paid to check my roll aboard into the hold, $23 one way, so a total of $46 (discounted from $50). Just had a laptop bag to carry on. Still had difficulty stowing it in the overhead cos the selfish gits that didn't check their bags tried to bring on the equivalent of a small basement full of crap.

Now, what really pissed me off was that those gits who could not find a space got their suitcases loaded into the hold FOR FREE!!! WTF???? So basically, don't check luggage (containing more than the carry on size of liquids) and pay for it, wait till you get to the plane and ask for it to be placed in the hold for free!!!

Ozzy

ian16th

29th Mar 2010, 19:08

May I be the 1st to mention the problem of theft from checked baggage being an encouragement to carry on all that one can?

I’m retired now, but I was a frequent business traveler. I took the time, trouble and expense to equip myself for frequent travel.

This meant a 5” deep Samsonite briefcase and a Samsonite ‘Saddlebag’, that slipped over the briefcase. With these two items I could be on a trip of 3 nights away from home, with only ‘carry on’ hand baggage that was never out of my sight. I also did not take up excessive space in the overhead lockers.

During longer trips where I had to take more kit and needed to check a case. I had an attempted theft from a checked case, this was a leg Milan Linate to Thief Row, I also had a bag checked from LHR to JNB taken off at Nairobi for some unknown reason. Much to my surprise, I received this case the next day all in one piece. Both of these cases were again top of the range Samsonite hard shell cases.

I realise that this is sounding like a Samsonite commercial and I must point out that I was in the computer industry and I have no interest in the Samsonite company, but with all of my traveling I saw too many cheap bags damaged by the time they reached the carousel in the arrivals halls of this world.

With the present rules about checked baggage into the USA not being locked, I simply would travel only with hand baggage. If the trip was so long that I needed more clothes I’d buy them in the USA.

Mr Optimistic

29th Mar 2010, 19:24

Perhaps in addition to checking the size of the carry on luggage, passengers should be asked to lift the bags over their heads before they are accepted. All those crushed under the unsupportable weight of their nugatory stuff would be deemed to have failed and their erstwhile hand-luggage either put in the hold or forwarded to the hospital.

Katamarino

29th Mar 2010, 19:28

If the airlines have a problem with the amount of baggage that passengers bring on board, they should do something about it. Set limits that the aircraft can handle, and enforce them; not to mention sorting out the checked baggage security and safety. I know the airline doesn't handle the baggage, but the passenger's contract is with the airline; it's the airline's responsibility to handle their subcontractors.

I hate the amount of baggage that some people take on board; but the problem I have is with the airline's failure to actually police it more than the people who take it onboard. If they bothered enforcing the rules, the message would soon get out, and people would stop bringing it all.

Dairyground

29th Mar 2010, 19:54

Is the stuff about hat racks a joke and I am just a bit slow ? Were there ever really hat racks on passenger jets ?

No, its not really a joke, although the comment was not intended to be taken too seriously.

Until around 1970 the shelf above the windows did not have the doors that converted into lockers. Either placards or CC announcements stated that it was intended only for light items such as hats that would not cause injury if they fell down. Open shelves were normal on turboprops such as Viscount and Vanguard, and, I think, were there in early days on BAC 1-11 and Boeing 707.

ExSp33db1rd

30th Mar 2010, 09:52

and Boeing 707

Was once sent back by the Captain to check the "Hat Racks " as the navigation instruments had gone haywire.

There was an area of the open hat rack on each side marked as " don't put anything here " or words to that effect, 'cos the fluxgate compass sensors were fitted just on the other side of the roof of the hatrack, but invisible in the cabin of course.

In this case, a pax had placed in the forbidden area one of those reel to reel tape recorders that were about the size of an office Remington typewriter, and the permanent magnets within the gadget were playing havoc with the compass sensor on that side of the aircraft.

The old-time equivalent of the modern interference from mobile telephones, I guess.

Interestingly, overloading the 'hat racks' didn't seem to be such a problem in those days, I guess 'cos even the dimmest ( except my tape recorder owner ) could see that nothing was tied down and could easily float around and hit someone, the problem seemed to start when retaining doors were added, now they CAN stuff them !

Joles

1st Apr 2010, 21:02

:ugh: This is what BA has to say
• Your main piece of hand baggage is up to the dimensions 56cm x 45cm x 25cm (22in x 18in x 10in), including the handle, pockets and wheels.
• Your bag must fit into the bag gauge, available at the check-in area.
• Musical instruments may be carried in addition to your stated hand baggage allowance, providing the dimensions do not exceed those of a guitar and providing it can be security screened

United says

For worldwide travel on any United flight, you may carry on one bag and one personal item such as a purse, briefcase or laptop computer. Your carry-on bag...
• must fit under your seat or in the overhead bin;
• must not be more than 9 x 14 x 22 inches (23 x 35 x 56 cm) or 45 linear inches* (114 linear cm); and
• may be required to travel as checked baggage if the bag cannot be safely stowed on your flight
Ryan’s site says

It should weigh no more than 10kg and not exceed the maximum dimensions of 55cm x 40cm x 20cm. Due to security restrictions - certain items cannot be carried in cabin baggage

so different airlines have different sizes and therefore one size DOES NOT fit all here ! That seems to be the root of the problem. The other issue is the a/c you’re flying. The bigger they get the more space you have. Is that right ?

so there is just no standard bag gauze that the hapless pax can use as a guide while choosing a carry on bag…

rolling

2nd Apr 2010, 09:48

There is no doubt that the present system has got out of hand .Unfortunately the airlines and regulators will do nothing to alter things,as they are the worst offenders and self interest prevails.Come on CAA if you are really interested in flight safety.do something about the situation,which is now boardering on being dangerous.

Sairaanhoitaja

2nd Apr 2010, 19:09

I don't usually find suitcases to be the problem with taking up too much space in the overhead bins, the biggest problem is all the bloody small bags/jackets/laptop bags/random crap pax seem to enjoy stuffing overhead!

Personally when I travel as a passenger, I prefer placing my handbag and jacket under the seat infront of me, no chance someone will steal it or pick it up accidentally, plus I generally find the floor space a damn sight cleaner than the bins!

girtbar

3rd Apr 2010, 18:44

Remember how quick boarding was just after 9-11 when you couldn't carry more than a jacket and a carrier bag on board? Sheer Bliss!

The only way around the baggage policy will be if airport security limit what can be carried through pax search.

For them it must be a nightmare trying to scan mountains of baggage, this must be having a security implications and adding to their work load?

I would pay money for a CAA inspector to come to work with me and actually weigh whats coming into the cabin and tell me that in a sudden deceleration all will be comfortably remain stowed. Especially with those ever increasingly flimsy locker doors!?

Question; When do the CAA/FAA step in?

Answer; Only after a plane's gone down and countless people needlessly die or get injured.

AirborneSoon

4th Apr 2010, 11:01

As for being concerned about theft from baggage handlers? Well I don't know about you but my bag is generally full of dirty laundry, toiletries and several pairs of worn shoes. Don't tend to pack valuables when I travel, I leave the gold bullion at home...:}.

If the baggage guys want to steal my flip flops or sweaty t-shirt, go right ahead....:ok: Just leave my PJs behind pls because I love them with the bum print already stretched in...:E

Honestly people do overrate the interest level of their own luggage.:rolleyes:

deep_south

4th Apr 2010, 19:11

I think one of the big problems with this is, for many airlines, if you do an on line check in with hand liggage only, then no one "screens" your hand luggage at all, until you board the plane, and at that point the gate agent typically is only doing a boarding card check, so ridiculous volumes and weights of hand luggage are talken on board. This then becomes the CC's problem to resolve....

lowcostdolly

5th Apr 2010, 14:43

Deepsouth absolutely :ok: Why would the loco's want to pay baggage handlers when the can get the CC to do it for free?? CC solve everything don't we?

Unfortunatly the SLF are cottoning onto the fact they can avoid the baggage charge as well by dragging their oversized luggage onto the plane for the CC/dispatcher to then hold load free of charge.

My lot have no weight limit either. As long as the pax can get it into the lockers unaided according to EZY thats fine. However there are a few SLF who take this literally and don't think closing the lockers applies :ugh: Que the drama queens when their luggage is then offloaded :uhoh:

Girtbar The safety action group of the CAA will investigate any alledged safety issue brought to their attention without waiting for hull losses and fatalities. It's up to CC however to bring these to their attention formally.
And a word to the wise.....don't tell your company use the CAA whistleblowing procedure. You will get a CAA inspector on board PDQ and free of charge :ok:

Seldomfitforpurpose

6th Apr 2010, 20:23

Unfortunatly the SLF are cottoning onto the fact they can avoid the baggage charge as well by dragging their oversized luggage onto the plane for the CC/dispatcher to then hold load free of charge.

My lot have no weight limit either. As long as the pax can get it into the lockers unaided according to EZY thats fine. However there are a few SLF who take this literally and don't think closing the lockers applies :ugh: Que the drama queens when their luggage is then offloaded :uhoh:

What is my hand luggage allowance? (http://easyjet.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5)

Your lot, as with just about all others are very specific with regards to hand luggage so it's rather trite to blame the SLF if your company fail to enforce their own rules and regulations.

As someone who sticks strictly to the letter of the law on this subject I would be rather pleased to see gate agents refusing SLF access to the aircraft if they have exceeded the allowance.

Surely in the interest of flight safety it is also the duty of responsible CC to refuse to allow SLF onto the aircraft if they have more than one bag or one that is too big.

SLF are not always the sharpest tools in the box however in this instance they are definitely putting one over on most airlines and most airlines seem more than happy to simply roll over and take it :ok:

lowcostdolly

7th Apr 2010, 13:36

Quote seldomfitforpurpose

"Your lot, as with just about all others are very specific with regards to hand luggage so it's rather trite to blame the SLF if your company fail to enforce their own rules and regulations".

:hmm: I don't recall "blaming" anyone in my post but simply stating the situation as it stands.

If we wish to do blame for this ridiculous situation re baggage then it lies fairly and squarely with the ancillary revenue "initiatives" of said airlines, not the SLF. The Loco's are the worst offenders.......I know I work for one and act as the baggage police/handler every day :ugh:

I too would be really pleased to see the gate staff actually do their job and check the bags at the gate as it would save me a lot of grief onboard.....they don't in most cases particularly on the continent. This is something I flag up frequently to my base office but nothing is ever done it would seem. After all the CC do solve everything so why on earth would a manager want to actually make a decision and take the matter higher :oh:

"Surely in the interest of flight safety it is also the duty of responsible CC to refuse to allow SLF onto the aircraft if they have more than one bag or one that is too big".

In the ideal world yes.... where we would have one CC to dilligently check boarding cards whilst the other tags and removes luggage from the always complient SLF who of course would willingly surrender their wordly goods without a fight :rolleyes: And of course we would have all the time in the world to achieve this

In loco what happens in reality is we are on the clock (literally) from landing at destination to take off. So are the ground staff which might explain why they don't check bags as any failure of on time performance would then be chalked up to them.

Hence what I get is some of the more savvy SLF (don't underestimate them SFFP there are many) dragging everything bar the kitchen sink up the stairs. Yes I could stop them there but that would interfere with my OTP as well and I would get a delay code attributed to me.....that's :eek::eek: for CC!!

So what do I do? Well there are also the folk such as yourself who complies with regs. There are also some who even check their baggage and pay the charge :). I just hope I have enough of these on board so I can stow the luggage of the rest. If I don't then their bags are hold loaded despite the hysterics in the interests of safety.

I realise that my OTP is not your concern as SLF so you might think I should still stop these people on the steps. You might not if you were standing in the rain in Milan or the blistering heat of Rome whilst we are doing this...... for a considerable period of time.

I use Italy as an example...... my CC colleagues would know why!!

Hope this clarifies my previous post and please PLEASE keep following the regs ;)

djlawless

7th Apr 2010, 18:35

Apparently Spirit Airlines is now charging for carry-on baggage ($45 each way, can that be right?), and on domestic flights checking a bag will now cost about $5 less than carrying it on. Ticket base prices were lowered $40 as part of this change. Measuring devices will apparently be placed at the gate, and there are the usual allowed items that won't count towards the paid requirement.

It will be interesting to see if this curtails the carry-on baggage mess. And if this shortens boarding/disembarking.

And Mr. Optimistic: That was an excellent idea to require passengers to demonstrate that they can lift their carry-on to overhead bin height.

rusty_monkey

8th Apr 2010, 13:34

If you look back through the on board pictures availiable online you will indeed see that the overhead lockers are mesh type affairs designed for a max of a coat and hat. The Royal Airforce still has Tri Star (L1011) that are fitted with the original coat racks so no hand luggage in the cabin :D

Winch-control

8th Apr 2010, 13:46

Unless you get onto an RAF C-130, then you can put what you like under the baggage stack on the ramp...or at least movers wil do it for you!:D

Eddy

8th Apr 2010, 14:02

In the video, at 1:16 where it's showing a Youtube clip, isn't the lady putting the coat up wearing a flight attendant's uniform (Continental, I think)? :eek::eek::eek::eek:

Demo Queen

12th Apr 2010, 12:54

Virgin Blue also charge for checked in baggage. I think it is either $8 or $10. If a passenger brings on carry on baggage that is too big for the lockers or overweight (7kg is the limit) it is off-loaded and put in the hold. CC's return the boarding pass to the passenger with a card that tells them that they can pick up their bag from the airlines baggage office, they will also need to pay $20 to get it.

The passengers that amuse me the most are the ones that ask me to put their bag in the locker for them (because it's too heavy for them to get it up there)! Do they really think I am going to put my back out to save themselves $10? I immediately offload their bag. I have even had large men ask me to do this. Of course there are exceptions to this, elderly or passengers with an injury whose bag is under the weight limit but are unable to manage it themselves I will gladly assist.

onboard

12th Apr 2010, 16:05

Ah, a time warp!

I've got twenty years of working as a Flight Attendant under my belt this year.
Some things have changed, some haven't. This is one that hasn't.
Passengers have always brought "to much" carry-on, and I've always had the same discussions as to where to put it. I've lugged tons of too heavy baggage to the doors to be unloaded, been cursed, slapped by unnerved pax and so on.
I've even written to Airbus when they ran an ad that had a roman (greek?) column lying in one of the overhead bins to show off the size of them (they wrote back, telling me that they wouldn't run that particular ad anymore, and sent me a nice book to show they were sorry, still have it, thanks!).
Ask the "oldies" in the business, nothing new here. It's not going to change either.
Back then, pax didn't even have the reason of having to pay for checked baggage, they didn't want to have to wait at the baggage belt, they feared the risk of having their baggage stolen...
Notice something? Yep, heard it all before. Many times. And again.
Is there a solution? Sure, same as years ago. Internationally agree on an accepted carry-on baggage size, enforce the rules, unload everything that makes it past the barriers. Makes you laugh, the simplicity, doesn't it?
Is it gonna happen? Not then, not now, not in the future. Just the way things are.
So to all the Passengers coming aboard with a "reasonable" size carry-on, I say thank you from the bottom of my heart, and I will do everything to stow away your baggage safely and carefully, to make up for all those who don't care and block your space. And I will still try to politely explain to those, why to please pack a little more carefully and considerately next time.
And hey, yeah I still love my job and I wouldn't for the world want to do anything else!

talent

5th May 2010, 08:27

Surprised that few people are focussing on the safety aspect of all this.

1. US stats show that 4000 cabin crew injured annually either attempting to help pax shove bags into lockers or by same bags falling out on top of them. Injuries range from bumps and bruises to incapacity from broken bones and vertebrae.

2. IN turbulence, hard landings or emergencies passengers often injured by bins popping open as fuselage flexes and luggage raining down on them.

3. IN a crash tall people siiting in aisle seats are slightly more likely to get killed. Theory is they are subjected to rain of laptops, whiskey bottles and so forth striking their heads from behind.

4. Ten kilos is a tray of small beers, a bowling ball, etc. It's too much and the limit should be reduced to lightweight, soft items like coats and hats.

Where is the CAA, FAA in all this? Whenever I ask I'm told it's an airline decision and there is no safety limit.

justawanab

6th May 2010, 07:32

Interesting discussion. As SLF I have a couple of comments (hoping they won't incite a riot).
I agree with negative comments citing storage of emergency etc equipment in O/H lockers but the fault with this doesn't lie with the crew but with aircraft designers, who know the regulations about what needs to be carried and where and should design suitable spaces to accomodate this, obviating the need to take over the O/H bins, and with the airlines who make baggage allowance rules and then seem surprised when passengers take advantage of them.
When I book a seat on an aircraft I check baggage/carry on rules for that airline and pack accordingly. If I'm allowed a certain sized bag of a certain weight as carry on I'll use a bag that fits that size and fill it as necessary close to the weight (if I need to) without going over on the assumption that the airline has taken their own baggage requirements into account and has made allowance for me to stow it in a bin above my seat. Conseqently I get a little miffed when I find that the locker above my seat is already full of other gear (I know now not to select a seat in the back two or three rows!).
It's a bit similar to the habit of airlines overbooking flights and then being surprised when more people turn up than will fit on the plane. Check-in isn't meant to be a lottery. If you book the seat, get there in time for check-in, you should quite reasonably be allowed to sit in it for the duration of the flight ... but I digress, sorry.

onboard

6th May 2010, 08:04

Interesting discussion. As SLF I have a couple of comments (hoping they won't incite a riot).
I agree with negative comments citing storage of emergency etc equipment in O/H lockers but the fault with this doesn't lie with the crew but with aircraft designers, who know the regulations about what needs to be carried and where and should design suitable spaces to accomodate this, obviating the need to take over the O/H bins, and with the airlines who make baggage allowance rules and then seem surprised when passengers take advantage of them.

Alas, the manufacturer puts into a new airplane whatever the airline wants. Within certain constraints of course, but nonetheless.
Part of this dilemma comes from new equipment that has to be incorporated into old aircraft. For example, when I started flying there was no defibrilator, there were no baby loop belts (with my airline at least) and so on.
So, when they finally became part of Standard Equipment, they had to be put somewhere.
For reasons of commonality they then get put into the same space on new aircraft, that could have them in a better space. Flying three different types of aircraft I appreciate this, as there is already enough of a difference between different airplane models and families.
Also, if everybody stuck to allowed baggage rules, there would be ample space for everybody and their luggage (also at my airline at least).
I daresay it's that simple.

onboard

6th May 2010, 08:14

Oh, and a personal thought:

why is everyone so obsessed with "their" bin?
Often I have to persuade passengers to go one bin up, or down the aisle, that bin still being almost empty.
I can understand people wanting their stuff somewhere close, but come on, what's wrong with the bin on the other side of the aisle, when you see someone sitting in the seats already and there's still space to be had?
"But I want it in my bin!". It's not your bin, it's the bin closest to your seat.

Okay, rant over. :)

etrang

6th May 2010, 09:17

justawanab

6th May 2010, 10:29

online wrote:
why is everyone so obsessed with "their" bin?

Well, it's not so much "my bin" (I'm not quite that anal!) but if you get there "late" (I usually wait for the rush to subside before getting on or off an aircraft because I'm reasonably confident that I don't need to be first for either), by then it's very difficult to find space in any bin or at least one that isn't half way down the aircraft. Not a big issue if you don't need anything from it in flight but darned annoying if you do.

It's human nature to make the best use of whatever you are "given" so it shouldn't come as any surprise if passengers try to make full use of their baggage allowances!

onboard

6th May 2010, 11:00

Ahem, English isn't my native language. I didn't realize that "bin" had that kind of other definition. :) I, of course was referring to luggage-bins.
And I know what you mean, as I said, I can understand why you would want your luggage "fairly close".
Still, you'd be surprised how many people are unwilling to consider that to be anything but the space directly above their seat.
I have no problems with passengers bringing onboard what they are entitled to, but the problem is, that passengers obviously feel free to decide for themselves, what is allowed. Come on, you've seen what gets lugged into the cabin.
I'll also admit that it is partly the fault of the airlines, that they don't get stopped on the ground.
Nowadays though, if you buy your ticket online, check-in online and then self-board, it's easy to get past any personel on the ground. Then, we CC have to take the baggage off you (not you personally:)) have you remove any valuables, medication, passports, blabla, tag it, and get a baggage handler to load it downstairs.
If you have only the two front doors on an long-haul aircraft open, you have to go against the stream of boarding pax to do all this in a timely fashion, otherwise delays might ensue and so on.
As I said, bring what the airline allows, and there will be enough space.
I had a five week vacation in Australia, and managed to bring one (admittedly large) suitcase inside weight limitations, and went on board with one Jansport backpack containing reading materials, ipod, laptop, toothbrush, bottled water (back in the day), chocolate... you get the picture, that went under my front seat. Even on the way home with some souvenirs bought.
Ok, I'm a guy, but my it was the same for my girlfriend.
Contrary to popular belief, it can be done.:ok:

starbag

6th May 2010, 11:42

Emergency equipment location is entirely down to the operating airline. My airline ordered a fleet of A319/A329/A321 aircraft. Emergency equipment is located in floor mounted boxes behind the last row of seats, under and around crew seats and in compartment under the wardrobes. Not a sausage in the overhead lockers. We took over another airline which also operated A320 / A321 aircraft and who have placed equipment all over the place, much of it in overhead lockers. Same aircraft, different operators.

jackieofalltrades

6th May 2010, 13:05

I hate the amount of baggage that some people take on board; but the problem I have is with the airline's failure to actually police it more than the people who take it onboard. If they bothered enforcing the rules, the message would soon get out, and people would stop bringing it all.

Couldn't agree more. It's infuriating how much some folk try to bring on. The agents at the gate need to be more vigilant in checking how much people are attempting to bring on as hand luggage, and strictly enforce the one bag (+ laptop/purse) rule.

Baldur

6th May 2010, 15:51

I am surprised that certain loco's have not yet spotted the revenue generating potential here...

Manufacture your own brand "approved" cabin luggage, a snazzy orange colour perhaps, or decorated with fine looking harp. Only this particular brand of luggage will be allowed into the cabin. All other types will have to be checked in and carried in the hold (at a charge of course).

Obviously the "own brand" luggage should be made so flimsy that it would break should more than the allowed weight be attempted to be stuffed into it. This would also mean that the life time of this brand would be fairly short and therefore generate more sales.

You saw it here first......

justawanab

7th May 2010, 02:19

I didn't realize that "bin" had that kind of other definition. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif I, of course was referring to luggage-bins.
Onboard, I'm pretty sure we were on the same track re the "bin" concept :)

Couldn't agree more. It's infuriating how much some folk try to bring on. The agents at the gate need to be more vigilant in checking how much people are attempting to bring on as hand luggage, and strictly enforce the one bag (+ laptop/purse) rule.

Absolutely! I've seen people with a fullsized, bloated mini wheely suitcases, plus their "handbag" which looks like it is big enough to contain all their worldly possessions, plus pillow, cardigan, etc etc ... and this is for a two hour flight! (I'd hate to see what they'd try to cart on a long haul!)
Very rarely do the crew at the gate even seem to notice. Admittedly they're pretty busy with checking passes at the time so shouldn't have to.
Maybe a new procedure could be instigated whereby all bags, including cabin baggage, are sized and weighed at check-in and approved cabin baggage is tagged with a bright dayglo tag. No tag at the gate ... bag goes in the hold or stays home.
People would quickly get the message, but until the rules are enforced nothing will change.

chrystall

7th May 2010, 07:10

major problem is on line check in so frequently the first time a pax will be seen is at the gate. if you have a busy flight and tight timescales to board, it is very easy to miss.

lowcostdolly

9th May 2010, 22:41

Baldur :D:D:D:D

Some manager will be "working" on that on Monday and it will be policy very soon! :ok:

Joles

12th May 2010, 18:46

Baldur and Justawanab

I seriously wish they'd wake up and MAKE this policy. I mean CC is pretty much trained in everything else EXCEPT weight - lifting....Else carry bouncers instead of CC ( will take care of that drunk creating nuisance as well !) :ok:

carousel

16th May 2010, 10:08

"The only way around the baggage policy will be if airport security limit what can be carried through pax search."
As from the 13th May 2010 BAA will no longer check sizes and weights of hand luggage at security, the only criteria now is that it will fit through the X-Ray and that you can carry it.

Dual ground

16th May 2010, 10:17

@ Justawanab

The location of emergency equipment is decided upon by the operator not the manufacturer. The reason for the equipment "migrating" to the overheads is I suspect to save space in the galley stowage. The smaller the galleys are the more room there is for seats, the more seats you have the more pax you can cram on-board. I am currently working for a legacy carrier and guess what? No emergency equipment in the overheads, it's all in the galleys next to the crew positions.

I suspect the lo-cos and charter operators are the worst offenders....

Baldur

20th May 2010, 08:45

As predicted in my earlier post...

Air Transport News (http://www.airtransportnews.aero/article.pl?mcateg=&id=23682).

Ryanair today (19th May) announced a new partnership with Samsonite, the world’s biggest luggage provider, to sell a Samsonite designed softsided carry-on bag which (when properly packed*) complies with Ryanair’s carry-on bag weight and size restrictions.
This year 73m passengers will snap up Ryanair’s guaranteed lowest fares. Over 50m of these passengers will save even more money by travelling without checked-in bags while availing of Ryanair’s generous 10KG FREE hand baggage allowance. To encourage more passengers to switch to carry-on bags Ryanair and Samsonite have designed a quality, durable, lightweight carry-on bag which (when properly packed*) complies with Ryanair’s approved carry-on bag dimensions....

...Ryanair’s Stephen McNamara said,

“This year 73m passengers will travel on Ryanair’s guaranteed lowest fares with over 50m of them travelling without checked in bags. Ryanair encourages all passengers to travel with just one piece of carry-on baggage and to ensure they can get the maximum benefit of our generous, FREE 10KG carry-on baggage allowance we have developed a lightweight, durable, top quality carry-on bag with Samsonite. At just €79/£69 including free delivery, this is a quality product at a great price.”

President of Samsonite Europe Fabio Rugarli, said,

"Samsonite's global expertise in producing innovative luggage to suit all travel occasions, made this project with Ryanair an appealing partnership. Our design and technology specialists responded to the brief, creating well-priced, practical and compact luggage to fit the absolute precise measurements of Ryanair's hand luggage specifications. We know that there is nothing more reassuring than travelling to the airport with the knowledge that your hand luggage will fit into the aircraft cabin."

*As this Samsonite bag is softsided, if over-packed it may not fit into Ryanair’s baggage sizers and in such cases Ryanair will require it to be carried as checked-in baggage.:hmm:

Now just wait for the changes in policy regarding non-approved hand luggage...

lowcostdolly

20th May 2010, 08:55

I told you some manager would be working on that the Monday after you posted!! :ok:

Somebody is re writing the policy as we speak :D:D

fergineer

20th May 2010, 22:40

To those who rant about aircraft manufacturers not taking weight in the overhead baggage stowage.....have a look inside, they are all stressed to certain weights, last time I flew in a 320 in Aus I seem to remember it was 38 kg per area. All these figures are worked out for G factors when aircraft are landed heavily or crashed. If you think the bags are too heavy and that they would go above the weight limit expressed by the manufacturer and you sit underneath it and something falls out you will have no legal claim against the manufacturer as you knowingly allowed the weight limit to be exceeded. What to do about it.....complain to the cabin crew point out the weight limit and wait to see what excuse they come up with. Get it in writing and report it to the authorities. If enough people do this airlines will have no excuse not to investigate. If you complain hard enough and get support from surrounding passengers it will cause a delay something that airlines dont like but soon they will get the message. I never exceed the limits on overhead baggage why should I accept that others should and put me in danger.

Joles

23rd May 2010, 11:12

why should different airlines have different sizes / weight specificications for their o/h ?
I can understand it could be because of different a/c but even then ?
Ok even if you were to give me that piece i'd take it as long as on my ticket you specified ( since you know what's the equipment you're flying and I don't) the dimensions and weight ( esp for international) .
Also remember on intl flights, duty free could add up to another 5kgs per pax, which could be another 1 tonne per 200 pax which is nowhere on the trim sheet....

Skywards

12th Jun 2010, 15:12

What to do about it.....complain to the cabin crew point out the weight limit and wait to see what excuse they come up with.

Just what we need, passengers complaining to us that they don't want their luggage put into the hold and other passengers complaining that they are concerned about weight limits. I love the attitude of "complain to the cabin crew".... perhaps you should say something to the pax who find it impossible to follow guidelines? We aren't super humans, we can't lift your trolley into the overhead lockers if you can't, we can't magically find room for the extra/oversized bags you brought with you and unless you want to drink your beverages out of your hands then yes we do need to stow equipment for the service in the overhead bins. Give crew a break....just follow the rules!

crippen

12th Jun 2010, 18:10

Wonder how long a certain airline will stop carry on baggage and get extra passengers on,laid down in the baggage racks! Think of the extra revenue.:eek:

al446

12th Jun 2010, 18:51

Skywards - Which part of your job are you complaining about? I assume you are CC. If so you are the face of the airline, check in staff are probably agents and f/d is off limits so you are IT, get used to it.
The post you refer to said nothing offensive, it was actually supportive of CC and against pax unreasonable expectations. Please do keep up.

Skywards

12th Jun 2010, 21:51

I didn't say the post was offensive...didn't have a problem with the post, just the 'complain to cabin crew' part. We are just there doing our job, complaining to us about this issue won't help, it's an issue that is beyond cabin crew control, so what is achieved by complaining to us? The problem should be tackled well and truly before it reaches the plane. It might be a surprise to you but us cabin crew can 'keep up', no need to be nasty.

fergineer

19th Jun 2010, 20:43

Skywards.....maybe not complain then but tell them that the luggage in the overhead compartment exceeds the manufacturers load limit. What will you do then its the same but just using different wording. I say to you again what would you do if I approached you with that remark.

BEagle

2nd Jul 2010, 07:30

Manufacture your own brand "approved" cabin luggage, a snazzy orange colour perhaps, or decorated with fine looking harp. Only this particular brand of luggage will be allowed into the cabin. All other types will have to be checked in and carried in the hold (at a charge of course

Lufthansa have had cabin-approved own logo'd luggage for years. The Titan flight bag and trolley case costs €129 or there's the Rimowa laptop bag and trolley case for €439...

My particular hate is 'aeroplane hikers' - people with large rucksacks which they insist on wearing whilst boarding.

The experienced business traveller will know not to select seats in row 1 (or row 2 D-F on some types) as there is nowhere to put your briefcase under the seat in front. Likewise, the front lockers are often full of newspapers, perhaps some CC luggage and some demo equipment.

gtf

12th Jul 2010, 08:22

why is everyone so obsessed with "their" bin?Quite the opposite on US dom flights. Kitchen sinks are heavy and hard to maneuver down the aisle, so mr row 25 will dump his loot over row 10, much to the displeasure of row 10 pax who have no room for their own sinks.

The only way around the baggage policy will be if airport security limit what can be carried through pax search.UA tried that at some airport (can't remember which), fitting plastic limiters in front of x-ray machines to allow just the right size carry-ons through. They were promptly threatened with all manners of legal consequences by CO, who was leasing space from UA in the same terminal, because UA's limits were lower than CO's and CO actually made a point (at the time) of advertising its bigger overhead bins. Plastic limiters were promptly disposed of.

why should different airlines have different sizes / weight specificications for their o/h ?Because they can!