Another IMC renewal question

[The Hat]

Morning all....

A question for u....

Can I renew my IMC rating in a foreign reg plane in Switzerland or as it is a national license do I have to come back and do it in the UK? As far as I can see there is are no restrictions stopping me.

If I can renew it abroad does anyone know any examiners over here in Switzerland who can help me?

[Dave Gittins]

I am a simple soul and may be wrong but as an IMC rating is a UK only rating, then I assume that as it can only be used in a UK registered plane it can only be examined in one. I also assume only a UK rated CAA licensed instructor can examine for the rating.

As you can't use it in Switzerland, I don't see how the test could be carried out there either.

[IO540]

I have it in writing from the UK CAA that as far as they are concerned the IMC Rating is valid in any aircraft registration. The ANO does not restrict it thus, so it is unrestricted.

However, what privileges a given license/rating gives you (if any) in a given aircraft reg is determined by the State of Registry of that aircraft.

So I wrote to the FAA asking them if the IMCR was OK in an N-reg and their reply was affirmative.

However, if somebody is just asking whether they can renew the IMCR in a Swiss-reg plane, in Swiss airspace, I can't see why not. They need a UK CAA IMCR examiner.

Who is going to be PIC is a fun question... in a G-reg, the instructor/examiner is AIUI always required to be PIC. In an N-reg, the instructor/examiner is rarely PIC. In a Swiss-reg, I have no idea. Historically, to sidestep these questions, all kinds of checkrides were done in a neighbouring country's airspace :)

It is also not inconceivable that UK CAA IMCR examiners have been issued a guidance note which contains something like the checkride must be done in a G-reg. I have never heard of that though. In the CAA-approved schools in the USA, JAA PPLs and IMC Ratings are trained and checked in N-reg planes.

[The Hat]

The license is on the person not the plane. I have renewed my IMC rating in an N reg before but that was in the UK. I just dont know if it is one of those funny things where by the retest can only be done in the UK.
You are correct in one instance that you cannot use the IMC abroad for flying in IMC conditions but it does removes the restriction that I always have to be in sight of the ground hence I can fly VMC on top (i.e in France)....which is just what is needed sometimes.

[Whopity]

Can I renew my IMC rating in a foreign reg plane in SwitzerlandYes, but as the IMC rating is not valid in Switzerland the Examiner would have to have a valid IR in order to conduct the test. A lot of IMC examiners operate on either an IMC rating or built in privileges in a UK professional licence and do not necessarily have a valid SP IR.

[IO540]

Would that still be true if the IMCR checkride is done in VMC, as a VFR flight? That's how most IMCR checkrides are done, AFAIK. Under the hood. The actual flight is VFR, usually OCAS as well.

[The Hat]

Thanks IO540...that is exactly what I was going to question as well...

[Fuji Abound]

Something doesnt seem quite right here. I can understand the above posts but the examiner will need to send the renewal paperwork to the CAA and therefore presumably he will need to have a CAA examiner's reference. While there may be CAA examiners in Switzerland presumably any old examiner will not do in the same way that if an FAA IRated examiner were to sign off the IMC renewal in the Sates the CAA would not accept his sign off.

I appreciate that was not exactly the answer to the question you asked. I would agree that if you can find an examiner in Switzerland that is authorised by the CAA to renew IMC ratings then I dont see as far as the CAA are concerned they care what letter is on the side of the aircraft or where the renewal takes place. I agree that if the examiner does not hold an IRating that is valid in Switzerland then the renewal would need to be conducted in VMC but that should not be an issue.

[belowradar]

Examinations conducted in UK by UK Examiner may not be recognised by another state so I assume that the opposite is true

However the flip side is also true - Examinations conducted for foreign state pilots by UK JAR Examiners may well be recognised by that foreign state (JUST NEED TO CHECK FIRST)

As JAR licenses were issued to the same common standards then I can't see why the test in Switzerland for UK IMC rating reval would not be OK. In fact if the Examiner has IR priveliges then that should be more than sufficient.

May be hard for some to get their heads around though

[IO540]

Hang on.... if you have an IMCR renewal, does anything get sent to the CAA??

I went to a CAA presentation on the IMCR a couple of years ago, and they said they thought about 20,000 IMC Ratings have been issued since 1969 or so, but they could not be sure because after the initial IMCR checkride they don't get any paperwork when people renew it.

The renewal is just a logbook signoff by a suitably authorised instructor. I reckon you could do it in Mongolia.

[S-Works]

The IMCr is a national rating and can only be revalidated by a UK CAA examiner. I have a specific authority in my examiner authorisation for the IMCr.

[BillieBob]

The UK CAA places no restriction on where in the world an IMCr renewal test may be conducted, nor on the country of registration of the aircraft used for the test. However, the test may be conducted only by an examiner authorised by the UK CAA specifically to conduct such a test, who must be qualified to act as pilot in command of the aircraft and in the airspace of the country in which the test takes place.

[Fuji Abound]

Hang on.... if you have an IMCR renewal, does anything get sent to the CAA??

You may well be correct. Is there any paperwork these days?

That said even if there isnt, the sign off would not be valid unless the person signing off was authorsied so to do. Mind you how the recipient is meant to know, I have no idea.

[IO540]

IMHO BillieBob (who I guess is very close to the CAA ;) ) has got it right.

In practice this means finding an instructor/examiner who is not anally retarded about it and just gets on with it.

One is hardly going to seek written permission from the Swiss CAA.... assuming the candidate is legally PIC on a VFR flight in that plane and in that airspace.

[The Hat]

Does anyone know of a UK examiner in Switzerland or is a trip back to blighty back on the cards??

[BillieBob]

BillieBob (who I guess is very close to the CAA)I take that as a personal insult - you realise this means war!

[IO540]

I take it all back...

Who do you work for???

[MrAverage]

Here's an associated question. Can the examiner accept a test fee on, say, an IMC renewal in an N reg in the UK?