Like driving a car

[AirJing]

I'm about 2/3 of the way towards getting my PPL.

Even if I extrapolate my experience so far out to PPL level, I still don't think I'm going to be anywhere near confident taking an airplane out and managing getting it through a high workload situation like joining a circuit and landing at a busy airport which I haven't been to before.... yet the PPL qualifies me to do exactly this. :rolleyes:

Or even if I had an engine failure and had to do a forced landing, I'm still not confident if I had one and one only small field which I just had to get the aircraft into, that I could do that properly. :sad:

Do you think this is normal? Do private pilots really feel like they can do both of the above properly when they get their PPL?

And finally, for those of you who have been flying for a while, how long did it take you before getting in a plane and flying it came as easily to you as getting in your car and driving?

[Mark1234]

My advice would be don't view the license as the 'end'; just because you've got it doesn't mean you stop learning, or that you cannot fly dual! Bit of a cliche, but regard it as a license to learn.

Forced landings you should be fairly competant at, but going somewhere busy / out of the ordinary? If not confident, don't do it - simple as that. Choose not to fly over that area where the outlanding options are so limited, don't plan to fly into bankstown, etc. Push the boundaries back gradually, and don't be shy to take someone more experienced, or an instructor for those occasions. Actually poling the aircraft around the sky should be pretty much second nature.

The answer to the second question is quite variable - it depends as much on currency as total hours. Also, in some a/c I'm totally comfortable, in others I'm very much more on edge. Some situations - such as controlled airfields might be less comfortable than others.

Flying is largely about managing workload, prioritising the important things, and being competant / comfortable about them. Aim for excellence, but recognise that some things can be fluffed safely, and others may kill you - be sure to get the important things right.

[chipmeisterc]

Have you done your QXC yet? I think that will alleviate alot of your fears.

The key to managing your workload once you have your PPL is proper planning. If visiting an airfield you are unfamiliar with,go on their website, read the pooleys, give the tower a phone call and familiarise yourself with their local procedures and joining instructions. Before you set off have in mind which runway they currently have in use and anticipate what join you are likely to be given. Write down all your enroute frequencies. Print out a diagram of their taxiways etc.

I am still a pretty new PPL only got my licence last April but I would still struggle to relate flying to driving a car. Flying requires good planning route/weather/notams, thorough preflight checks and a discipline not to press on / set off unless the weather permits. Driving does not bite you if you neglect any of these in quite the same way.

With regard to PFL's im guessing you have only done a couple of hours. The key really is to practice them frequently to stay current once you have gained your PPL. If you really feel unconfident in this or any other area of flying have a word with your instructor and go out and focus on them. Once you are done with the NAV section of your course, you will return to these to brush up on plus other general handling skills in time for your skills test.

Just like driving, your ppl is a ticket to learn, dont expect to be a flying god as soon as you get your poo coloured wallet. I have learnt a good few lessons since April!! If you feel unconfident have a word with your instructor but once you have done these things once you will realise that none of it is really that hard! :)

Enjoy the rest of your course!

[Halfbaked_Boy]

The PPL is just a poo coloured wallet which means diddly squat in real terms!

It's a licence to learn - you'll make plenty of mistakes for many hours after you've got your licence, all the PPL certifies is that you're not likely to kill yourself (or anybody else) whilst making them!

By no means does this generalise against pilots at the lower end of the hours ladder (I stand guilty as charged), everyone is of a different ability, but it's important to know that you're about to venture into a period of your flying where you're statistically more likely to have an accident, so be on top alert.

But hey, flying's about having fun! What you've described is perfectly normal, and you'll soon learn that a/g operators/FISOs/controllers are your friend and are usually helpful and accommodating, so don't worry too much about this aspect. Most of these issues can be overcome by planning in plenty of time, and this isn't necessarily on the ground... Say you've 20 NM to run, and you've been instructed to join overhead. Perfect opportunity to have a good think about how you're going to orientate yourself, listen out on the radio and you'll be able to adjust as necessary to ensure a smooth transition into the circuit.

And as far as an engine failure goes... If you're 2,000' or above, you've got a pretty good view of the countryside around you, so finding a field shouldn't be a problem. During training it will seem harder because you're trying to arrange everything into the 'right' order, get a mayday in etc... In real life, remember, aviate, navigate, communicate. If you don't have time for a mayday, focus solely on flying the aeroplane and landing it safely. A fatal accident due engine failure in VFR is VERY rare.

Anyway, forget all that because you're still training and by that theory still have an instructor.

Talk to them about it, they know you best.

[Justiciar]

Practice and more practice, i.e. currency on type. Once you feel comfortable, start to push your comfort envelope, perhaps by getting further instruction to explore new facets of your flying, e.g. short field, busier airfields, controlled airspace. But, keep practicing those PFLs.

[Blinkz]

The fact that your having these feelings I think shows that you are approaching flying with completely the right attitude. A PPL should NOT make you super-confident and think you know it all! Remember, the day you go flying and don't learn something new is the day you've become complacent.

Just take things at your own pace. If in doubt ask! Either ATC if flying, or an instructor or fellow pilots on the ground. There is no such thing as a silly question.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

how long did it take you before getting in a plane and flying it came as easily to you as getting in your car and driving?
You should never treat flying like driving a car for the simple reason that if something goes wrong in an aeroplane you can't just stop by the side of the road whilst you work out what to do next.

Example: I had an oil filter fail and dump all the oil onto the road (due to an oil over pressure relief valve jamming, or something). In response to the screaming noise I turned off the engine and coasted to the side of the road, no problem. But this only happened because I wasn't treating driving like flying: if I'd been in "flying mode" I'd have noticed that the tacho read zero when I started the engine and never have taken the handbrake off. I hope I am never going to treat an aircraft like that!

[S-Works]

You should never treat flying like driving a car for the simple reason that if something goes wrong in an aeroplane you can't just stop by the side of the road whilst you work out what to do next.

I think his point was about the skill involved rather than the attitude.

Personally I find flying just like driving a car, similar motor skills and level of comfort. I use my aircraft to fly back and forward to work where I then get into another aircraft and fly for work. If you do something often enough it becomes second nature. This in no way undermines the requirement to ensure you are doing everything safely, just that it makes it much easier to do so.

Same with emergencies, I have had my share of emergencies and I am trained and current to deal with them and although the 'lay-by' is a bit more taxing to get into I have no issue with pulling over.

A lack of comfort is what keeps people convincing themselves that flying is hard.

[1800ed]

Flying's difficult, that's why I enjoy it! I think you strive for that perfect flight where you don't make a slight mistake here or there, but in reality it will never happen. You just get better and more comfortable every time you go up...

[Whirlybird]

The only period during which I felt as confident getting into an aircraft as I do when driving a car was when I was flying as regularly as I drive, ie for the year or so during which I was a full time instructor. Otherwise I never have, or have had, quite the same level of confidence. And I have well over 1000 flying hours. And in my experience that's true of many pilots, if not most.

As various people have said, a lot of this is because flying is simply not like driving, in that you can't just pull over to the side of the sky and phone the AA. You have to be capable of dealing with everything, in some way or another. If the engine plays up in your car, you stop. If it fails in an aircraft, you have to deal with it. If you're trying to drive in a very busy city environment and feel it's all a bit much, you pull over, put on the hazard lights, and take a couple of deep breaths. It's hard to do the equivalent when going into a crowded airport.

When you get your licence, you may well not feel confident doing a lot of things. So make haste slowly. Never be afraid to take an instructor with you, or a more experienced pilot friend. Gain experience, but slowly. If you want to extend yourself, do ONE new thing per flight, ie either go to a big airfield, or fly in challenging (for you) weather, or take a non-flying passenger, but not all three at once.

I'm sure when you first got your driving licence you weren't that confident either, so as you did then, give yourself time.

[It flies]

Do you think this is normal?Yes. I'm nearly halfway through my PPL course. I'm wondering about much the same things. You can practice engine failures but doing it for real will be a totally different experience. I'm not at all sure I'd make a good emergency landing, but I will just have to try my best. Same thing about landing at an unfamiliar airport.

Also confidence goes up and down again. Today I practised crosswind landings in a tailwheel aircraft. Last week I made some decent landings and thought I understood how to land a taildragger in a crosswind. Today I did exactly the same but somehow found it much harder. I just need to practice untill I don't worry about it anymore and then I'm ready to add another thing to the workload.

How often do you fly? I found it makes a lot of difference if I fly two times a day.

[champair79]

Ok I must be the opposite as I find flying easier than driving a car! :\ The again though, I think I have more flying hours than driving - the flying keeps draining my wallet hence I've never owned a car! I'm sure that will change though when I finally own one.

[RTN11]

I also find flying easier than driving, but I think it is all about attitude. I learnt to fly before i learnt to drive, and I've passed every flying test first time whereas it took 4-5 attempts for driving.

Perhaps if the attitude to learning to drive and driving in general were similar to flying there would be less road traffic accidents. Now I have my driving licence, that's it, no more tests or anyone checking up on me, I can drive as much or as little as I want. Whereas to keep my flying current, I need to do at least one hour with an instructor every 2 years.

Don't feel bad about your lack of confidence so far. Once you've visited a few airfields on your own, without the help of an instructor next to you, and you realise how easy it can be with good planning, your confidence will soon build. Sit at home and run through a PFL in your armchair. It feels silly, but it will help in the air if you've got all your checks running smoothly. If you can picture your cockpit when you close your eyes, it's half the battle.

Good luck with the remaining 1/3 of your licence. :ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Some good lectures above; I'm going to be much briefer.

My personal benchmark for being on top of my flying is much more about recency than total time. I look for an average of at-least 50 hours per year, with maybe half a dozen each of landings, stalls and PFLs in the last 3 months at any time.

That, and 1-2 hours preparation per flight.


G .

[IO540]

I agree that ~ 50hrs/year is perhaps the minimum for good currency, although the preparation can be a lot less than 1-2hrs with computer flight planning tools. One can prepare the stuff for a simple VFR flight in well under 30 mins, including notams, weather, printing everything out, etc.

However, 50 hrs is way more than the average UK PPL annual hours... so what does this mean? I don't think one needs to be doing 50hrs/year to be current enough for a very simple plane and flying down the beach on a sunny Sunday, and a lot of people do just that.

Anyway, one can't compare flying with driving.

At the technical level, a plane is a bit like a car from before WW1 - lots of knobs and levers and gauges, and you have to know which knob does what.

At the "driving" level, a plane is a lot harder to drive around than a car. It has long bits sticking out each side, and if you bump into another plane's bits, they will absolutely love you because, at long last, they can get a brand new wing on your insurance (£20,000). Driving a plane around on the ground is IMHO the riskiest (in "instant hassle" terms; people rarely inside the plane rarely get injured) part of flying, and accidents are very common. As are prop strikes, by going into a pothole, etc... another £20,000... Also planes have crap brakes and crap steering compared to a car. Getting airborne is quite a relief!

At the "flying" level, a plane is easier than a car because with a car you have to pay attention constantly to the road, roadsigns, TomTom etc, and of course other traffic. A few seconds of inattention is instant death, most of the time, on a busy road. With a plane you don't need to concentrate anywhere like that because 99.99% of the time there is nobody else within miles. I can fly for 7 hrs and feel fine at the end (though the engine noise does cause tiredness, as would altitude flight without oxygen) but if I drove on busy roads for 7 hours I would be totally sh*gged. In a plane, the attention instead goes on monitoring the engine and systems, ATC comms, but apart from talking on the radio there is almost never anything that needs urgent attention. It's very relaxing; you can sit there enjoying the scenery, taking photos, making movies, eating lunch, etc.

The big mistake some make is thinking they can use a plane like a car, for commuting. Flying is strongly weather dependent. But that's another story....

BTW, I don't think joining circuits at busy GA airfields (e.g. Stapleford or Wellesbourne on a sunny Sunday preceeded by weeks of bad weather) is ever going to be fun. I have over 1k hours and still hate that stuff. If everybody flew by the book it would be OK but many don't; you get cut up on the inside from both sides, and often one has to go-around because the cowboy has misjudged it and ends up too close in front of you. Due to personal circumstances I do most flying on weekdays and actually I am not unhappy about it.

[snchater]

Please never be so confident that your flying becomes as automated as driving a car.

I once witnessed 4 businessman get into a Piper, taxi and take off in the space of 2 minutes - no time to warm the engine,conduct power checks or do a passenger brief - their attitude to flying was like driving a car.

A while later a report into a fatal business-jet crash on takeoff into IMC concluded that the owner/pilot had rushed his departure so the gyros had insufficient time to spool up leading to inaccurate AI indications.

I have over 1000hrs and regularly fly long distances single pilot IFR - however I have built my confidence up over 20 years - my first solo cross country post PPL was a 30mile trip Barton/Bury/Barton!

Fly safely

[Hamish 123]

IO540, you are having a laugh, surely! 50 hours minimum pa for good currency! Boll*x! If that were the case, then I guess that 95% off PPLs are, by your definition, flying in a dangerously uncurrent (is that a word?) state. There are 12 members of my flying group. No one gets remotely near 50 hours a year. To achieve that amount of flying, in the UK, you would need:-

a) either consistently good weather or an IMC rating
b) lots of money
c) lots of time
d) an understanding wife and family

I wish . . . .

[BackPacker]

Hamish, there's a difference between good currency and reasonable currency.

Good currency is when you are confident enough to take the plane out in almost all weather conditions, fly to the limits of the planes performance (either in terms of endurance or aerobatics limits), and take-off and land in all sorts of environments (short strips, wet grass, you name it).

Reasonable currency is when you are confident enough to take the plane out in benign weather conditions and stay well within the performance envelope.

50 hours is probably the minimum to maintain good currency, 12 hours is probably the minimum to maintain reasonable currency. Of course, the number of hours on type is also a factor.

I have seen some of the trip reports that IO540 makes and trust me, you don't want to undertake some of those with just 12 hours experience in the last year. I did about 40 hours last summer, mostly aerobatics, then did virtually nothing over the winter and I can already notice that I'm nowhere near as current today as I was at the end of last summer. I'm still current enough to be safe, but I know I need working towards getting the same level of currency if I want to achieve the same things as last year. (Which, in my case, is competition aerobatics.)

[Genghis the Engineer]

t'was I, not IO540 who first put up the 50 hour figure.

However, IO540 does a lot of long trips to difficult places, through difficult weather. I fly a lot of types, including a fair amount of test flying. So, when either of us says "good", we mean "good", not "adequate".

I disagree with him about 30 minutes preparation - firstly planning skills are important as well and a relatively inexperienced pilot needs to be practicing those not just plugging numbers into a computer and trusting the output, and also regular personal reviews of airfield procedures, checklists, charts, aircraft characteristics - all this takes time and is important.

If I was only flying 25 hours per year, I'd still be safe to fly a PA28 on a reasonable day from one end of England to the other, and to deal with the odd reasonably straightforward emergency, but I'd not be safe doing for example, the testing of a rebuilt Auster that I'm in the middle of right now.

However, I'll be frank and say that in my opinion the JAR-FCL minimum of 12 hours in the second half of every 2 years, is dangerously minimal and nowhere near enough to keep a typical PPL with only a couple of hundred hours safe. They're kept safe by flying clubs that keep a careful eye on these low-recency pilots - but only just.

Going back to the original question, I'd venture that our new PPL trying to continuously improve their flying should probably look to a minimum of 2-3 hours per month - and make sure that includes some stuff that makes them work: new routes, new airfields, practicing stalls, steep turns and PFLs regularly...

G

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Hamish, are you serious?

I understand the money issue, but 50 hours is nothing in relation to the amount of VFR days we get in the UK per year. Let's take a relatively low figure and say we get 6 hours per day of sunlight over the course of a year, that equates to just over 2,000 hours.

Really think only 2.5% of daylight hours are VFR?!

Another way of thinking about it... An hour a week.

I tend to agree with the 50 hr figure - by no means is it saying you're unsafe if you fly any degree below that, hell I'm sure the CAA did their own tests to determine the magic 12 hrs. But flying once a week makes a noticeable difference to flying once a month. :ok:

[Mark1234]

As we've gone off onto currency.. currency is not just hours either, you can fly a lot of hours that gain you nothing, or less hours that work you hard.

The problem with aviation is that it's difficult to set absolute rules (if you want them to be useful). You need to be honest with yourself about your ability at any given time, and self regulate - take responsibility. Which is not a popular concept in today's society, there has to be a rule, and someone to blame for everything (and in saying that, suprisingly I'm not an old git!)

For example, of late I've flown something around .5 just about every weekend for the last 2 months in various tailwheel aerobats. My handling skills are pretty well practised. My nav is more questionable, but it's not a lot of hours. 8 months ago I flew 40hrs in 4 weeks round the outback of australia in a C172.. with mostly 4hr legs my handling wasn't that hot. My nav was (fortunately) doing pretty well!

[Hamish 123]

Halfbaked, your arithmetic presupposes that I can fly during any daylight during the year. In reality, I have a Monday to Friday job, and can only occassionally fly during the week. Therefore, available days to fly decreases by 71% immediately. And as we all know, weekend weather is rubbish. Or at least seems that way.

I say again; I bet most PPLs are in a similar situation to me. VFR only, weekend usually, would like to do more, but financial/family/other constraints make it difficult. 50 hours for good currency? Rubbish. Or there are a lot of very unsafe flyers out there.

[Lister Noble]

Interesting one this.
I am almost retired,have a share in an aircraft that is near home and available almost whenever I want it.
Do not have any other committements apart from all the things I like doing besides flying.
Wife totally understanding,money side is OK.
BUT
I only fly 20-30 hours a year,would probably like to do a bit more ,say 50 hrs,but weather and other things sometimes get in the way.
I'm happy with this.
I had my bi-ennial yesterday in borderline VFR conditions,the GPS fell off it's bracket,landed on the rear shelf so no danger,but it certainly sharpened up my nav,or lack of it.
The instructor sat in the front,so could not see compass or balance ball,but could see speed and rpm.
Did steep turns and stalls OK,45 degree turns,probabaly the limit with 65 hp.
Did the worst landing in 4 yrs,but I've not had a passenger in 4 years,it showed up in poor performance,me and Cub;)
I reckon for lowish hours pilots the odd trip with an instructor would not be a bad thing.
Lister:)

[Genghis the Engineer]

Or there are a lot of very unsafe flyers out there.

Quite possibly, yes. Worse, a lot of those don't realise this.



I reckon for lowish hours pilots the odd trip with an instructor would not be a bad thing.

Yes, say an hour every two years? :}

G

[BackPacker]

I say again; I bet most PPLs are in a similar situation to me. VFR only, weekend usually, would like to do more, but financial/family/other constraints make it difficult.

You're probably right. And as long as you stick to benign conditions and well within the envelope of what the plane is capable of, you're going to be just fine. Just don't be afraid to scrap a flight if conditions looks marginal.

[Lister Noble]

No,say more often,I spoke to my instructor after the trip,he said I didn't need it but would do it if I wanted.
He is CFI where I learned to fly.
I do,but the Cub is difficult with the passenger in front and not much point doing it in a PA28,or maybe there is?
That is what I learned in.
Lister:)

[gpn01]

Getting back on topic....

Having the confidence/skill/capability/comptency to fly is, from a learning perspective, like many other activities - and the driving a car one is actullay quite a reasonable one. If you study the psychology of learning you'll discover four phases - starting with unconscious incompetence (that's where you didn't even know what you needed to do, let alone be able to do it - so the first time you sit in an aeroplane you may not even know what a trimmer, elevator, aileron, etc. is). Next is conscious incompetence (you now realise that you need to maintain attitude to keep a constant speed), then is conscious competence (you can keep to a speed, heading and height but have to work hard at it). Finally their is unconcious competence (you're now able to do things without thinking about it, e.g. roll onto a heading whilst keeping the airplane in balanced flight).

Going back to the example of the car - try to remember your first driving lesson....for many it was probably "Mirror, signal, clutch down, into first, mirror a bit more, ease on the gas pedal, look in the mirror again, let the handbrake off, press the gas pedal a bit more, look in the mirror....". Now you can probably drive around a roundabout, change gear, indicate, glance in the rear view mirror and change the station on the radio...all at the same time. That's because a lot of the stuff is now almost automatic and you don't need to consciously think about it. You'll reach this stage in flying too when some things are automatic and this frees up capacity for the brain to deal with stuff that you're not yet at the level of doing automatically. Now, the more often you practice stuff, the more you're able to do unconsciously (FYI: this doesn't mean not thinking about it, it simply means that the brain is bypassing the conscious level). That enables your brain to take on an increased level of complexity/workload, etc. more easily. In turn, when you do the more complex stuff part of that becomes automatic and so that frees up capacity to do more.....etc, etc.

[AirJing]

Mmmm, as Bose X points out, I'm not treating flying as casually as driving. However with sufficient experience, even if there is significantly more to learn with flying vs driving and more checks, more skill, more attention to detail, more planning etc, those tasks should be come automated and routine with enough practice. So that everything inc the prep work in going flying is as comfortable as getting in a car and driving.

So does that level of comfort ever happen with private pilots?

[BackPacker]

So does that level of comfort ever happen with private pilots?

Well, to me it depends on the plane, the flight, the weather and a few other factors. Similar to driving a car.

There are flights (in my case local aerobatics sorties) which I undertake almost as casually as hopping in my car for the drive to work. Prepping for the flight (weather, notams, squawks, W&B, navplan, flightplan) takes less than 15 minutes, preflight another 5, I hop in, strap in, do the checks and go. It's all routine. Just like driving to work - you've done it so often that it doesn't require a lot of conscious thought. Just concentration.

But there are also flights that do take a lot of conscious preparation - in some cases multiple days worth of preparation weighing the different routes against one another, checking and rechecking fuel requirements, fuel stops, PPR, PNR, customs requirements, survival equipment, weather limitations etc. Likewise, there are car journeys that take more forethought. Long journeys in rental cars in foreign countries, at night and in bad weather conditions come to mind.

[kenparry]

hell I'm sure the CAA did their own tests to determine the magic 12 hrs.

Most unlikely. Like lots of other figures, it came out of a study group at JAA years ago, which means it was the result of lots of fruitless discussion and grubby compromise. Been there, done that, in another pilot licensing context, and it was an interesting but unsatisfying experience.

[IO540]

Reportedly, the bizzare "12 hours in the 2nd of the two years" bit came from the German delegate to JAA.

I've never heard of an explanation, but it is a stupid rule because basically what happens is that Joe Bloggs gets his new PPL, and realises he doesn't have to fly at all for 23+ months, so he doesn't bother with keeping current, and obviously after 23 months he will have forgotten what a plane looks like, so he packs it in.

6 hours per year would have made far more sense.

Of course 6hrs/year is not enough, because even taking it most charitably in currency terms (flying 30 mins every month i.e. 10 mins taxi, 15 mins airborne, 5 mins taxi) is no good.

I suspect there are many pilots who do have very poor currency. I am sure most of them know it and they stick to very simple flights. Or maybe some fly as passengers, which they can't log but it is still very good for them. Cost sharing is a big thing on the PPL scene.

[Piltdown Man]

Don't worry too much. It will almost certainly never be like driving your car, even when you are very current. Many years ago when I flew piston singles I could drag one out of the hangar, fire it up and fly off in almost as many minutes as it has taken me to write this piece. But my planning started as I got out of bed and continued on my drive to the club. Was it windy? What was the cloudbase? Fuel requirements - Visibility - Thermals - wave (unlikely) - winch cable position - local ATC etc. were all considered. I had, I suppose 300 hours in singles by this time and a 1,000 hours gliding. But as no time did I ever think of it like a car. And whenever I went somewhere new, I used to plan and prepare for the transit and arrival, just like you probably do now for every flight. That's the learning process.

For now, you have to trust your instructor's judgement and take a certain amount of comfort in that 1. You won't be put up for test until you are ready and 2. The test will be just that, a test. To pass, you will prove to the examiner that you can fly to the required standard. And even once you pass, you'll still find that there are many things which you are uncertain about. So you'll still be getting advice from instructors and others, all the time you are flying.

PM

[Sir Niall Dementia]

IO540 is right. There are a lot of pilots out there with poor currency, but they are not all PPLs. I've watched senior management pilots with thousands of hours balls up the simplest task because they spend too much time flying a desk and not enough time flying an aircraft. In fact some of them I wouldn't trust to fly my family despite all their time and qualifications. When I hopped the fence to desk and flying I was lucky enough to have my own aeroplane and the time to sharpen up some basic flying skills which had become horribly blunted by years of 2 crew and high tech.

During that phase I flew a lot with a PPL instructor friend, he gave me a piece of advice which I pass on to other pilots I work with and PPLs I fly with. As I drive away from the hangar I review the flight and what I have learned from it, if I feel I haven't learned anything then I've missed something, possibly quite serious, but most likely very minor, in which case I haven't been paying enough attention.

I've got 12 400 hours and a decade and a bit left working, I'm still learning, when a PPL gets his new license the real learning begins. Sadly often the learning stops quite quickly because he gives up. In the airlines line pilots hoover up information from all sources added to the fact that they fly a lot and so their theoretical knowledge expands exponentially. I'm a firm believer in PPLs sharing trips and using that time in a similar way, ie to learn from each other, and then debrief at the end of a trip and seriously examine how each other runs a flight, their cockpit management and individual knowledge. The £100 cup of coffee can then have a serious motive.

The only pilot allowed to fly my aeroplane apart from me is a 500 hr ppl, who is one of the best pilots I've ever watched, he and I often fly together and I enjoy his critiques of my flying and he takes my critiques of his with humour and good grace.

[AdamFrisch]

I actually wonder how many BA/Virgin/Whatever captains are members of a flying club or have access to small aircraft? It'd be interesting to know.

How many fly VFR at all during a year? Just like IFR currency, I bet you many of them wouldn't know what to do with a VFR map and a C172...

[gpn01]

I know several bus drivers (F/O's and Capts), covering the entire Boeing range and quite a few Airbus varieties too, who fly gliders and tugs. I'd certainly feel more confident knowing that one of them is at the pointy end of anything I'm a passenger in as they at least know how to fly and deal with unusual situations.

[douglas.lindsay]

I've only just passed my skills test and haven't even sent off my licence application yet, so treat my suggestion with suitable caution... but I remember a similar feeling about 30 hours in coupled with being suddenly unable to land well. Started worrying about PFL and EFATO in particular. So I figured that, although I couldn't predict the exact altitude or environment for an emergency, I could do a lot to make sure the basic routine was firmly embedded in my mind. Although handling is quite different, I used a sim on my PC to rehearse the drill from various heights in various wimd conditions, and kept doing it until I had no problem remembering the basic procedures. Then asked my instructor to take me out for some emergency practice and I was amazed at how much more confident I was. Because I wasn't preoccupied trying to remember what to do I could concentrate on 1) handling the plane (which flew much better than the sim!) and 2) adapting to the actual situation. Might be worth trying something similar?

[PompeyPaul]

15 hours - I wondered if I'd ever get the hang of this
20 hours - felt comfortable I could fly straight & level, take off, land
45 hours - got my PPL felt comfortable going out for an hour and laning at my airfield
55 hours - felt comfortable landing on grass
65 hours - felt comfortable going to an airfield I hadn't visited before
75 hours - felt comfortable going to a known foreign airfield like LFAT
85 hours - felt comfortable doing international trips
100 hours - felt comfortable doing longer trips, like 3hours flying

I was chatting to an instructor who said that 100 hours was a nice time because you started to feel comfortable actually flying places and doing things.

I've now taken a break whilst I get married and I have to pay for a wedding.

I will start again in August. I'll then start pushing further into foreigh countries and get more foreign flying under my belt.

[mm_flynn]

Flying vs. Driving???

I fly 75 - 100 hours per year - more than some less than others, I local flight over well trod ground in my own aircraft, pretty comfortable about that - quick pref-light, notams, weather, temps stabilised, pax briefed and off we go. But that is still a lot more than I would do for my drive to work (get in, turn key, drive).

I drive an hour each way to work plus other driving on the weekend, so call it 600 hours/ year (about 18,000 hours), so I guess I need a lot more flight time to get close to flying = driving. Even then, there is just more to think about and plan for when flying (either the aircraft is not that capable so clouds, turbulence, ice, etc. are a worry - or the aircraft is very capable and therefore big, expensive and complicated to operate)

[gpn01]

Flying vs driving ?

FFS....In terms of learning/development/skill building they're very similar (see earlier posting about the four phases of competence). In terms of complexity and risk, they're Worlds apart. So, one is easier to learn and to retain the necessary skills. The other has extra dimensions to complicate matters when things go wrong. Both can be a greal deal of fun when done well. Both can kill you (and others) if done badly.