Tu 204 down near DME

[andrasz]

Just heared on morning news, apparently inbound from Egypt, 8 crew o/b, made 'emergency landing' in the forest a kilometre or so from Domodedovo. First reports suggest all/most crew made it with injuries. No details on airline yet.

Apparently the same aircraft had an incident yesterday, it was a pax flight to Hurghada, aircraft returned to DME after crew reported smoke on board (yet circled for two hours to burn off fuel !?). The accident flight was an empty return flight with just crew on board. Two serious injuries, two light, others made it without. Accident happened 0:45 GMT (3:45 am Moscow time). It appears the aircraft remained largely intact.

Update:

'Emergency landing' now changed to 'went off radar' about one kilometre from threshold, in 'poor' weather conditions. Sounds like a fatigued crew returning from a long overnight flight making an approach at the worst time of the day, and ending up in the woods a kilometre short of the runway...

Some surces say it was an 'Ulyanovsk based' carrier. Could only be Aviastar, which while not based there, is affiliated with the Ulyanovsk aircraft plant (which manufactures the Tu-204).

[rusibla]

the airline seems to be Aviastar. the aircraft had hydraulic problems on the leg from Moscow to Egypt. Check Tu-204 Passenger Jet Lands in Forest: One Wing Lost, Fuselage Cracked - Pravda.Ru (http://bit.ly/9UlQS1) and Incident: Aviastar-TU T204 near Moscow on Mar 21st 2010, hydraulics problems (http://avherald.com/h?article=428f912f&opt=0)

[marchino61]

Report from ITAR-TASS:
ITAR-TASS (http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=14940680&PageNum=0)

It reports two serious injuries out of 8 crew.

The plane was "partially damaged" with both wings torn off. Partially? Sounds like a write-off to me....:confused:

[liider]

It's the same aircraft, RA-64011, "the Omsk Glider"

ASN Aircraft accident Tupolev 204-100 RA-64011 Omsk Airport (OMS) (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20020114-2)


Not speculating, but....

[robbreid]

The Kathryn Report: Passenger jet crash lands near Moscow airport (With Video) (http://www.thekathrynreport.com/2010/03/passenger-jet-crash-lands-near-moscow.html)

Google Translator Russian News (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html%3Fid%3D348643%26cid%3D549&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dgoogle%2Brussia%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client %3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DpIh%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.ca&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhhMvM4zKfr4UCTVmPSsWaRqJbtDBQ)

[captplaystation]

I love the sentence in the first link "The plane does not have any major damage" Guess they didn't see the photo on www.flightglobal.com :eek: Bit of speed tape and she will be fine :rolleyes:
Doesn't square too well with "The search for the flight recorders is underway" :hmm:
Try looking under the tail, still seems to be attached ;)

[airmail]

Some video here:

BBC News - Russian plane crash lands in forest near Moscow (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8580179.stm)

[Dinger154]

The a/c still had fuel on board when it went down according to emergency services. Heavy fog in the area. Possible failure to set altimeter correctly.

[jackharr]

quote: I love the sentence in the first link "The plane does not have any major damage" Guess they didn't see the photo on www.flightglobal.com (http://redirectingat.com/?id=42X487496&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flightglobal.com%2F) http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif Bit of speed tape and she will be fine :rolleyes:

Anyone competent enough with PhotoShop to give us the idea?:*

Jack

[Evanelpus]

Sounds like a fatigued crew returning from a long overnight flight making an approach at the worst time of the day, and ending up in the woods a kilometre short of the runway...


Wow, what brilliant insight you have. I don't know why we bother having aircrash/incident investigators. You could have waited a bit before offering us this little nugget. It normally takes at least 10 answers before the theorists start!

[Agaricus bisporus]

Oh, come on, surely that's a little harsh, especially after the BBC have revealed the hitherto unsuspected existence of a factory manufacturing Tupolev airliners at Hurghada!! (see blurb beneath BBC video link)

Why do these dimwit journos not proof-read anything to see if what was written matches what was intended? Idiots.

[BeechNut]

The a/c still had fuel on board when it went down according to emergency services.

Usable fuel?

[Dinger154]

Affirmative

[Flight Detent]

So Evanelpuss...

does that make your : "Wow, what brilliant insight you have." post due at #11?

It was just a supposition based on the currently available evidence...get off his back!

FD:ok:

[andrasz]

Thanks, FD :)

Actually I DO have some firsthand insight into how some of these marginal russian outfits operate.

DME-HRG is around 4 hours, if they were back at 3am departure was around 6pm, allowing for turnaround. Add pre-flight, that's ten hours, all in darkness. Based on the number of crew on board, it appears they carried a relief flight crew to bring the a/c back, but we all know how comfortable 'rest' one can have on an a/c full of pax in charter config...

I have had the personal experience of taking numerous flights back from the middle-east in the small hours, even if you can force yourself some sleep before the flight, at 3am your mind is just not the same.

I've said nothing about the cause, simply noted that a crew made a low visibility approach in darkness at the circadian low after being awake all night (deliberately avoiding 'on duty' here, these days even the more shadey outfits make sure to stay legal, on paper at least), and ended up in the woods a kilometre short of the runway. Whatever went wrong, those guys were certainly not in the most ideal condition to deal with it.

[BrooksPA-28]

According to the article; "The plane crashed in heavy fog at 2:35 a.m. after pilots radioed controllers that they needed to make an emergency landing. It was unclear what had prompted the pilots' distress call." There's also an ominous reference to "a violation of air traffic safety regulations".
-reported in the Moscow Times link here (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/tu-204-crashes-near-domodedovo-airport-8-injured/402350.html)

[liider]

First unofficial information is that autopilot was INOP or switched off during approach, they performed a manual approach...

[lomapaseo]

That Moscow Times report flies in the face of the official statement, which is that there was no declaration of any need to make an emergency landing.

Perhaps it's a language translation problem between our english words "need" versus "want" to and the absence of a reason given for the emergency landing.

[vovachan]

Engines 'operational' on crashed Tu-204: investigators

This phrase has left some ppl scratching their heads - does it mean the engines were actually operating or they were capable of operating?

[wozzo]

This phrase has left some ppl scratching their heads - does it mean the engines were actually operating or they were capable of operating?

The russian word is "работоспособны", which means they were capable of operating (functional, in working order), not what they were actually doing at time of impact.

[vovachan]

What they meant was "operable".

This vid of the crash site shows another plane coming in for a landing. Looks like the wreck is located significantly to the right of the center line.

YouTube - Raw video of passenger plane crash in Moscow woods (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tX00EWg1Es)

[hetfield]

Do they have a parallel runway system?

thx

[Less Hair]

At Domodedovo airport? Yes.

[hetfield]

Thx.

So the plane on the vid may be for the more left runway !?

[oleczek]

Good picture of a crash location.

Õðàíåíèå ôàéëà, áåñïëàòíî çàêà÷àòü è ñêà÷àòü (http://slil.ru/28842694)


EDIT: same picture as in liider post (#30) and his loads much quicker.

[vovachan]

The runways are 2 km apart. The other plane is def not 2 km away, much closer

[liider]

The plane is nearly 300m from the center line.

Here is the photo:
http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/2204/64011.jpg

Same on Wikimapia:
Wikimapia - Let's describe the whole world! (http://wikimapia.org/#lat=55.4303041&lon=37.8611183&z=15&l=0&m=b)

[andrasz]

It appears the initial tree contact was pretty close to center line, but the ground slide was a good 15-20 degrees to the right of the rwy heading.

[Sqwak7700]

Most likely one of the wings dropped as he tried to stretch the glide and make it onto the airport boundary. Or maybe he knew the highway was approaching and was trying to put some distance between them.

Who cares, the aircraft CRASHED SHORT OF THE RUNWAY. Why is the fact that he is off centerline even an issue?

Seems of little impact IMHO :rolleyes:

[AlexGG]

Rumour now has it that

"the engines were operating till impact".
as in "not only capable of operating, but actually produicing above idle thrust".

source local news raido station citing some aviation official.
and the citation said "engines" as in "both engines".

[wozzo]

According to Kommersant (a rather respected newspaper), the investigators have established that pilots (for so far unkown reasons) weren't able to use ILS on approach. Link (Russian) (http://www.kommersant.ru/doc.aspx?DocsID=1342510&ThemesID=948)

(Edit) Some more details from the report:
Pilots didn't inform ATC that ILS wasn't used
Apparently, there are indications on CVR that a GPS navigation system was used instead
Last message from ATC to pilots was that they were left of glideslope, crash occured while they tried a course correction

[PJ2]

According to Kommersant (a rather respected newspaper), the investigators have established that pilots (for so far unkown reasons) weren't able to use ILS on approach. Link (Russian) (http://www.kommersant.ru/doc.aspx?DocsID=1342510&ThemesID=948)
This is from aviation-safety.net:
UUDD 212330Z 16003MPS 0100 R14R/0450N R14L/0700U FG VV001 03/02Q1002 64290050 14290045 NOSIG= [Wind 160 degrees at 3 m/sec; 100 m visibility; vertical visibility 100 ft.; temperature 3 degrees C, dewpoint 2 degrees C; runway visual range for runway 14R: 450 m, Not changing significantly and for runway 14L: 700 m improving]
UUDD 220000Z 17003MPS 0250 R32R/0700N FG VV001 02/02 Q100282290045 NOSIG=

[vovachan]

The big honcho described the accident as a CFIT and blamed "human factors". He confirmed that there was fuel on board and the engines were operating normally.

[greek-freak]

Last message from ATC to pilots was that they were left of glideslope, crash occured while they tried a course correction

I guess you mean left of extended RWY centerline or localizer, left of GS sounds a bit difficult.

[wozzo]

I guess you mean left of extended RWY centerline or localizer, left of GS sounds a bit difficult.

Your're right, I meant left of extended centerline.
Thank you. :ok:

[andrasz]

Last message from ATC to pilots was that they were left of glideslope, crash occured while they tried a course correction


That pretty much explains the heading of the wreckage path.

[Hotel Tango]

That pretty much explains the heading of the wreckage path.

Actually, it doesn't explain anything! Another FS Accident Investigator in our midst!

[DJ77]

Left of GS is possible ... in a steep banked left turn :)

[wozzo]

More reporting in Russian press, this time Izvestija, ... (Edit) Info obviously completely wrong, deleted, sorry.

[dvv]

wozzo, to quote a famous Russian book:

And — heaven preserve! — don't read any Soviet newspapers before dinner.

[robbreid]

Russian pilots investigated over crash landing (http://www.australiannews.net/story/616951)

[kontur]

One russian forum insider claims that
- a few hours before crash landing another Tu204 diverted to ULLI due to false localiser and glideslope capture when they found themselves on DH too far from the RW .The weather was much better at that time.
Also there are rumors that the autopilot was uncapable during the flight.
Fuel was enough and engines produced thrust untill the impact

[vovachan]

Finally some official info:

The airplane had at least 9 tons of fuel at the time of the crash. It was on an ILS approach to rwy 14R when at 4000m there was a computer malfunction as a result of which the automatic modes and the ILS display were lost. The crew identified the problem but did not inform ATC and continued the approach using the nav aids which were available.