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UAL320Capt
22nd Mar 2010, 01:38
Have you guys seen this recent change?
Hope it makes more sense to you than it did to me.
I know the chances of a radio failure is very remote any more, but, say you are on departure (IMC forever, 220K/4,000') and no comm..
What would you do?

Visual Meteorological Conditions: Same as domestic operations.
Instrument Meteorological Conditions - Nonradar Environment:
If failure occurs in IMC and the guidance for VMC cannot be complied with, continue the flight as follows.
• Maintain the last assigned speed and flight level, or minimum flight altitude, if higher, for a period of 60 minutes following a failed position report over a compulsory reporting point.
• After 60 minutes, adjust flight level and speed in accordance with the filed flight plan.

captjns
22nd Mar 2010, 08:43
You also need to check the Jeppy Supplement for each member state lost comm. procedure too.

JulieAndrews
22nd Mar 2010, 09:09
a position report would refer to enroute nav - your scenario referred to departure situation...where actions are different...icao procedures/local procedures/national procedures...ho hum......
get on the acars/sat phone!

zonnair
22nd Mar 2010, 16:33
Indeed sounds like a departure procedure, or something.

Enroute it will be 7 minutes (under radar control) from the moment (whichever is later):
- a/c reaches last asigned lvl, or MEA,
- 7600 is set,
- a/c failure to report

Or 20 minutes from the a/c failure to report, when not under radar control.

PENKO
22nd Mar 2010, 17:08
The text you quote refers to NON-RADAR environment. So you fly high up over Africa and your radio fails... 60 minutes is easy!

Try failing your radio in the Londn TMA, you may need 60 minutes to read and understand the procedure! :O

zonnair
22nd Mar 2010, 18:21
Hehehehehe

galaxy flyer
22nd Mar 2010, 22:49
If on strictly followed the procedures in Africa, everybody would be "radio out". Same Muscat to Mumbai.

GF

hawk37
23rd Mar 2010, 16:54
UAL320Capt says 60 minutes.
Can you confirm this is on "departure" for a specific airport/country, and not enroute?

Zonnair says 20 minutes.

UAL320Capt
24th Mar 2010, 00:29
Here is the whole thing.
In radar environment it says 7 minutes.
I was getting ahead of myself by trying to come up with a scenario, where in some remote location (Diversion,etc) I might lose radar contact shortly after Takeoff, and have radio failure.
Like I said not likely at all, but thanks for all the replies.

ICAO RADIO FAILURE PROCEDURES

Visual Meteorological Conditions: Same as domestic operations.

Instrument Meteorological Conditions - Nonradar Environment
If failure occurs in IMC and the guidance for VMC cannot be complied with, continue the flight as follows. See the Regions chapter for any regional navigation procedures that may apply.
• Maintain the last assigned speed and flight level, or minimum flight altitude, if higher, for a period of 60 minutes following a failed position report over a compulsory reporting point.
• After 60 minutes, adjust flight level and speed in accordance with the filed flight plan.

Instrument Meteorological Conditions - Radar Environment
If failure occurs in IMC and the guidance for VMC cannot be complied with, continue the flight as follows. See the Regions chapter for any regional navigation procedures that may apply.
• Maintain the last assigned airspeed and flight level, or minimum flight level, if higher, for a period of 7 minutes following the:
- Time the last assigned flight level or minimum flight altitude is reached, or
- Time the transponder is set to code 7600, or
- Airplane’s failure to report its position over a compulsory reporting point, whichever is later.
• Thereafter, adjust flight level and speed in accordance with the filed flight plan.
- When being radar vectored or having been directed by ATC to do a route offset without a specified limit, proceed in the most direct manner possible to rejoin the current flight plan route no later than the next significant point, taking into consideration the applicable minimum flight altitude.
- Proceed according to the current flight plan route to the appropriate designated
navigation aid or fix serving the destination airport and hold, if required, until
commencement of descent.
- Commence descent from the navigation aid or fix serving the destination airport as
close as possible to the expected approach time last received and acknowledged. If
there was no expected approach time received and acknowledged, commence
descent as close as possible to the estimated time of arrival from the current flight plan.
- Complete a normal instrument approach procedure as specified for the designated navigation aid or fix and land.