JAR-PPL Theoretical 4 fail rule

[rollix]

Hi all,

Some months ago I was in Latvia giving my PPL theoretical exams, and got stuck in a particular situation.

I've got 6 out of 9 exams cleared, but then, when it came to face principles of flight I had some difficulties, and failed three times (shame on me :uhoh:).

At that point I decided to take some time for a deeper study of the subject, and a couple of months passed.
In the meanwhile surprise, Latvian CAA adopted a new rule, and since then 4 failures in the same subject will make all the other previously passed exams void.

4 failures before voiding all exams can be fair, I mean it shouldn't happen to fail that much times in the same subject, but when I was giving exams failure simply meant to pay the fee again and retake it another time, and I also had pressure to pass it quick to take care of the remaining subjects, which I was already preparing for.

I'm studying hard and trying to reach 85-95%, but even reaching 90% in quizs I still feel really unsafe into going to exam risking to kill all of the other subjects I've done.

Having to give them all again it's not only a major hassle, but it will require me plenty of time for preparation, time that (mainly due to work) I don't have.

Now, I know that ATPL and CPL rules are the same for all JAA members, but for PPL different regulations about licensing and exams does apply for each state.

The question is, asking theoretical exams transfer to my home country (Italy), or to any other JAA member state, can help me into avoiding this "4 fail rule", or that's a JAA imposed thing, in common to all JAA states?

I tried to search further information about the argument but it seems to be a new, or a not so much discussed thing :ugh:.

Thanks in advance

[IO540]

There is a similar issue with colour vision tests, on which you are allowed to fail each type only once per life.

So, obviously, people searched for a doctor who would do a CV test without making a note of it if somebody failed.

A lot of people started going to Hungary.

Whether this still works, I don't know. Hungary is supposedly JAR-FCL but it depends on the particular doctor, of course ;)

I also have no idea whether there is any central reporting (within JAA-land) of exams passed or failed. Judging from how one school "lost" some exam passes of mine, I don't think anybody reports anything, so you could just pop over to the school next door :) Certainly, the country next door should be fine...

[S-Works]

There are no JAR PPL exams. The exams are national exams and only valid in the country in which they are taken in conjunction with the flight training.

You can't do PPL exams in one state and have them accepted in another as a rule.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Having to give them all again it's not only a major hassle, but it will require me plenty of time for preparation
Shouldn't do. The point of the exams is that you're supposed to know the stuff, not cram it for the exam and forget it the day after. In theory any one of us ought to be able to sit down with zero notice and pass any of our PPL exams :):):)

(He says, having let his IMC exam run out of time, so will have to do it again ... shall I do any revision, I wonder, or just assume that I learned it all properly the first time.)

[lotusexige]

Funny, the first time I did air law I failed, not by much but failed. I decided to read up a bit more but we all know about good intentions. A couple on months later I still had not got around to any revision but did the exam anyway. Passed.

[rollix]

Shouldn't do. The point of the exams is that you're supposed to know the stuff, not cram it for the exam and forget it the day after. In theory any one of us ought to be able to sit down with zero notice and pass any of our PPL exams :):):)

Well we're talking about more than 1000 pages of material, of course sitting exams again will be easier than first time, but still requires many hours of review.

Aviation it's not the only priority for me, such a concept of flawless theoretical preparation does apply more to professionals if you ask me.

Also JAA theory is one of the heaviest, FAA theory is way easier to pass, and pilots fly safe anyway.

There are no JAR PPL exams. The exams are national exams and only valid in the country in which they are taken in conjunction with the flight training.

You can't do PPL exams in one state and have them accepted in another as a rule.

I know PPL exams are different from state to state, but I read of cases where some CAAs recognized exams given in other JAA member states, but probably that was about CPL or ATPL rather than PPL.

Do you have specific referrals to that rule? That's a UK only policy or part of JAR regulations?

Thanks for all your answers, IO540 especially :)

[IO540]

Many EU countries run the UK CAA exams. I know for a fact the Greeks do; you sit them in Athens (and reportedly for far less than the LGW cost).

If I was doing the JAA IR I'd go down to Greece. I wouldn't do it up here, with the crap weather and anal retention everywhere. Greece is 1 fuel stop (Croatia) for a TB20. Most pleasant :)

Pick up a Greek PPL just to make sure, in case the UK CAA are having a bad day and refuse to add the Greek IR to a UK PPL. (However I have heard of a successful legal challenge to such refusals, anyway).

Also some EU countries are known to accept UK CPL or IR exam passes. In some cases they may exercise useful discretion on expired ones, too.

At least 90% of the JAA IR theory is bollox. It is irrelevant to real flight. And this is after they have removed all the jet type rating stuff.

[S-Works]

(However I have heard of a successful legal challenge to such refusals, anyway).

I suspect that the legal challenge you are referring to is the one that TH referred to about an IR. IR is covered by JAR FCL, although each member state can decide if they want to accept the exams of another member state. The UK wont. If you do the exams in another state you have to do the training in it as well. However at there discretion they will add the rating to a UK licence in accordance with JAR FCL.

I know PPL exams are different from state to state, but I read of cases where some CAAs recognized exams given in other JAA member states, but probably that was about CPL or ATPL rather than PPL.

Do you have specific referrals to that rule? That's a UK only policy or part of JAR regulations?

I hold the UK PPL question bank and those from another JAA state as an Examiner. The PPL exams are not covered by JAR FCL. As I mentioned in a previous post they are NATIONAL exams. There is no JAR syllabus for the PPL nor is there is a common question bank. The only record of the exams are those kept by the school and the entry they make on the application form that goes to the NAA for licence issue. The number of times you can sit the exams comes from the number of exams sets we hold, there is only a fixed number and of you exceed those then you have to have a set written for you and take them at a NAA test centre or wait for the time limit to expire and start again.

As IO points out a number of states have bought in the UK exams to save producing there own. I know Cyprus also use them and if memory serves right so does Malta and I bet there are others if you dug under the hood.

In general the content is pretty generic and no one states is much different or easier than an other.

I really don't know what you are having a problem with, the exams are not difficult, use a confuser or computer software like the Dauntless Software question and get stuck in. If you are still struggling there are plenty of people who can do custom Ground School for you. Derek Davis in the UK is renowned for crammer ground schools. I am sure there are more people like that in your own country. Or you could even get your flight school to do the job you are paying for and actually teach you something.

[BillieBob]

There is no JAR syllabus for the PPL So what is the syllabus in AMC FCL 1.125 (titled "Syllabus of theoretical knowledge and flight instruction for the private pilot licence (aeroplane)")?

[S-Works]

That is not the syllabus, it is as the AMC describes an Acceptable Means of Compliance in order to have a JAR FCL PPL issued.

At the levels above PPL, the Syllabus is defined and the questions drawn from a common question bank.

[BillieBob]

I see, so the 'Syllabus of theoretical knowledge' is not a theoretical knowledge syllabus. That's an interesting interpretation of the English language.

[S-Works]

Whatever, you want Billiebob.

An AMC does not make a course. The courses at PPL level are governed by the NAA not JAA unlike the higher levels.

There are no JAA PPL exams, just national exams. Take that as a play on words however you want.

[orionsbelt]

Boss x

(You can't do PPL exams in one state and have them accepted in another as a rule.)

But it can be done if you get agreement between the country regulating authorities.

A couple of years ago I had a UK student who worked in Switzerland and was learning to fly in Zurich. She applied to both the UK and Swiss CAA who agreed that she could do her ground school and exams in the UK with me and her flying and skill tests in Switzerland.

We did it all in 2 weeks of 10hrs a day. If I remember correctly she passed them all first time.
She and her Swiss instructor had to work very hard with the Swiss authorities and we in the UK had to show we were an approved school and that I was F I qualified to give the ground school and that the UK examiner was also CAA approved.

Cheers ***

[S-Works]

Indeed. That is why I used the term 'as a rule'........

Anything is possible if you are prepared to jump through the hoops of the various NAA's. However it is not a forgone conclusion as there is no automatic cross recognition as the PPL exams are national not JAA.

Not sure how many more times I have to say it!!