Morane MS-894 Minerva - good for towing ?

[Ericson]

Hello !
My club is looking for replacement of PZL-104 Wilga tow plane. Wilga is maintance hog :mad: and gives very little in terms of climb performance with glider in return.

As our budget is rather limited ( we can spend around 35k euro for purchase ). We came up with idea of Morane MS-894 Minerva. There are some available with prices around 30k and with some life left in the airframe and engine. Anybody could tell me more about maintenance cost of these planes ? Are there any bombs hidden is this airframe ( mandatory structural checks, life extension, etc ) :ouch:

Most of Minervas I have seen were powered by Franklin 6 cyl. engines, that thing worries me because I have heard a lot of bad things regarding these engines. :8


Best regards
Ericson

[Vino Collapso]

You would be better advised to buy a Rallye 180T. Good old 180hp Lycoming engine with a fixed pitch prop and a lighter weight airframe.

[KeesM]

Check for corrosion, mainly in the wingspar.
Cracks in the engine mount, there is an AD for that one.

Here are some links to Rallye web-sites:

Morane-, Rallye- und Koliber Flugzeuge (http://www.morane.de/)
Yahoo! Groups (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rallye/message/1530)
Home (http://www.flyrallye.com/)

Good luck.

[englishal]

As mentioned, the Rallye can suffer from corrosion, though most of the badly corroded ones are a pile of dust in the scrap yard these days. Ours was condemned for corrosion in 2005 but we decided to rebuild including new wings and complete corrosion proofing etc...

As far as maintenance goes, it is relatively inexpensive, and inexpensive to insure as it is a simple SEP aeroplane. We did have a cracked dynafocal engine mount last year which needed to be replaced and it was a bugger tracking one down - Socata wanted £6000 for a new one (and 180 days to deliver!). Eventually we got it fixed though for not too high a cost in the end, due to the help of some helpful people on Pprune and Flyer.

You can get a 4 blade climb prop for towing gliders and it works very well apparently. We get an astonishing rate of climb from out 160 HP SV version and 2 blade prop...It is for sale at the moment, and is the best Rallye in the whole of Europe :ok:

[POBJOY]

The 235 would be better than the "894",although both are heavy and there are more 0540 lyc's around than Franklins.(There are less engine mount issues with the 0540 Lyc machines)
I agree that the 180T is ok for the job but the later 893 versions are possibly less corrosion prone.In fact Mr Rallye who was at Biggin until last year says the later ones are less prone.
There is no advantage having the VP prop for towing it just adds more weight and cost.
You then have to decide what the main use will be for, as even 180 will not be ideal for some of the heavy glass two seaters.
Either way you will need a 54" pitch prop and ACF50 (good stuff)
There are some cheap Pawnees around now (Spain) that make fab tugs and the AD's and Mods are better for the long term.
I think a Spanish Pawnee could be used over here as there is less problem with the calendar life of the engine for Glider Club use (private).
Pawnees's have a wing attachment and cluster inspection situation but no engine mount problem,also spares and repair schemes no hassle.
On the basis that more performance is safer and gives a good acceleration at launch the Pawnee is a great machine and fun to fly.
I am afraid there is not a lot of choice if you need a machine for "two seaters" A "stripped Raylle" will get you by but a Pawnee will be better.
PM me for more details,as i have operated both for Gliders and Banners.
Pobjoy
The secret with any tug is to get rid of all surplus weight (seats, trim, fat pilots, spray gear and spats ect)
As an aside i am a real convert to ACF 50 having done my own tests to check whether it works or not. IMHO it is the best product to help keep down exfoliation type corrosion and for treating a non proofed airframe.

[BALAMUK]

hope i won't spoil the thread.
i am not interested in towing glider but in towing banners.

the requirements from a plane for banner towing are the same as for glider towing? i' ve read that the best choice would be a pawnee or other crop duster and i've seen banner towing done by wilga.

would a MS-894 be a decent choice? it is a more versatile plane and there are some good offers on the second hand market.

another interesting recommendation i've seen surfing the forum was the c172 with a +200hp engine (someone said also about a overpowered c150 but i tend to believe it is to light).

a less powered plane means you won't be able to do banner towing safely or only that you are limited on the banner dimensions ?

regards,
Calin

[S-Works]

The 172 with the big engine is the either the early Reims Rockets or as I have the later Hawk XP. Big 6 cylinder continentals pushing 210hp.

[krohmie]

Sorry, the Hawk XP has a 4 Zylinder engine ...

[BALAMUK]

i've talked to one of my flight instructors.
he told me he had done towing with PZL Wilga's but also with 100hp ULM's.
the difference was of course of the banner size - from a 40m x 4-5m wide to a 20m x 1,5m banner wide for ULM.
i don't know how you get the maximum possible size, if there is a formula or you just try an see when you begin having problems.

[ProfChrisReed]

From the other end of the string ....

I've towed behind a Rallye 180 - seemed fine for 2-seaters as well as single, unless you have a short <1,000m runway.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Hawk XP has the 6 cylinder Continental IO 360. You definitely do not want to tow a baner with this aircraft as banner towing involves cruising for long periods of time at low airspeeds (55 kts), Cylinder overheating is a real problem when towing a banner and the IO 360 is particularly prone to cylinder damage from high CHT's. The bullet proof 4 Cylinder Lycomings do OK for this work if they have good baffling.

The size of the banner will determine what airplane you need. A 150 hp C172 will do fine for normal banners but you will need a more powerfull aircraft like a 235 hp Pawnee for extra long banners.

[kestrel539]

They are very, very noisey(?) loud.
I wonder who remembers the old Inkpen gliding club, and one of the
main reasons they lost planning permission.

[mutt]

I've towed banners with the MS894 and Reims Rocket, the 894 was certainly easier as long as the leading edge slats were rigged correctly. Banner flying was a great way of building hours :)

Mutt

[png]

Hi,

We are a Swedish Soaring club who has ran into the disaster of having a crack in the engine mount on our Rallye 180. Are you able to advise us where and how to get it fixed. WE sent it to Socata ages ago and nothing happens.

Regards,
Georg Carlsson

[POBJOY]

Do you not have any approved welders in Sweden !!!!

[N707ZS]

Just buy a Pa25 Pawne built like a brick out house easy to fix:ok:

[Piltdown Man]

The best tug I've flown was a four bladed, constant speed Robin. The Robin caught fire (mogas vapour lock, fuel pissed on ground, caught fire, wooofff!) The second best was a 180 Super Cub but overall, the one that appears to outperform them all giving good climbs and descents, good all round vision, stable and forgiving handling and resilient airframe is the four-bladed (fixed pitch) Pawnee. Not the sort of aircraft to giver your girl a ride in (unless she's into hoppers) but they are excellent gliding club aircraft.

PM

[Wessex Boy]

The 180T was the last run of 111 rallyes and was specifically built for tugging, it uses the lighter airframe and a basic interior fit out.

Our group has one that some of the other members use for Glider towing, including 2 seaters as a local club was doing Instructor Check-outs off an Aero-Tow to 3,500'.

We have a fine pitch 2 blade prop which slows the cruise speed a bit, but the climb is good!