Flying with small child?

[Ryan5252]

Quick question for those in the know. I am reaching the later stages of my PPL training and if all goes to plan should have my licence before the 'glorious summer weather'. I have a 4 year old boy who loves planes (kinda been forced on him!) and am excited to bring him flying. Im only starting to realise the implications of what could happen if I flew with him in a two seater plane with no one else to supervise while I fly. It has to be said he is very good for his age and quite mature but who knows what could happen in flight. I suppose it is not outside the realm of possibility he could attempt to play with controls, he could get air sick or any other number of unforeseen circumstances could arise. I would of course take a long time getting him used to the plane before flight; let him walk around it, touch it and sit in it. Then the flight itself would of course be short of no more than 15-20 minutes max.

What im wondering is if there is anything else I have not considered or if anyone has additional advice about flying with a small child for the first time?

Any advice, as always, is greatly appreciated.

Ryan

[austerwobbler]

I use a car booster seat so my lad could see out the side window a bit better,and not to much angle of bank in the turns untill he's comfortable , and maybe just a circuit first and see how he handles it !

Have a great time and "make it a great memory for both of you"
Austerwobbler :ok:

[RINKER]

Good question so heres my experience with my children.Forgive me I don't fly fixed wing but I think similar in many ways to rotary.My children started seeing the R44 up close from an early age as I used to land in our garden a lot. Although they were excited about it when I landed and shut everything down as my wife brought them over to the machine I was not that surprised I suppose to find my older girl aged 2 at the time was very cautious about the machine and would not even sit in it. So we didn't force the issue.My little boy only 1 at that time was not that bothered as you might expect. A year later when my girl was 3 I had it home again and this time asked if I would bring her flying,my little boy now 2 was very interested but like his big sis the year before would not go too near let alone sit in it. So I popped her car seat in the back diagonally behind me ( I sometimes find some peoples first flight in a heli because of the bubble window to the floor in the front can feel a bit exposed ), fitted her headset ( which incedentally we practised with standard earmuffs at home as a game a lot to get them used to the idea ) After a chat over the intercom at which she was very excited with I started and lifted into a hover and she was very happy and then gently away for a truly memorable flight which she loved.A year later you guessed it my boy now 3 wanted to come up so ,this time with the two children in the back and my wife in the front we went for our first full family flight and it was wonderful to hear my little girl now 4 of course telling her little brother all about what to expect !.
So I would say bring him flying when you feel confident and wait until he is ready too.

R

[Gertrude the Wombat]

My experience, which is not rare, is that the children spend most of the flight asleep.

[Fly-by-Wife]

I first took my eldest flying when he was 6 (and a half).

I agree with the booster seat and would also make a few other points:


Find out how sick bags open and seal before you leave the ground (wasn't a problem for him, fortunately)
Ensure that he goes to the loo just before take off (halfway back from IOW @ 3000' - "I need a wee"...)
Fly a few circuits before departing on a long leg to see how he reacts to the various phases of flight.
Ensure that he is supervised on the ground while you are doing your pre-flight.


I also explained what we were doing / going to do and ensured that he understood that I would sometimes need him to be totally quiet so that I could use the radio - we had a signal for that.

He was actually very helpful, holding PLOG (and filling it in), maps, water etc.!! :ok:

Enjoy the experience.

FBW

[DX Wombat]

If you are really worried that he might accidentally touch the controls why not make sure the seat is as far back as it is possible to get it? Better still, if you are flying in a 4 seat aircraft put him in the back with his mum, granny, or grandad etc.

[mad_jock]

Or get him to hold the controls and try and not get pissed off when he is better than you. :p

To be honest I think it will be a minor miracle if he is awake after the power checks aged 4.

[Pilot DAR]

My experience, which is not rare, is that the children spend most of the flight asleep.


And your experience really shows well if the children sleep through your landing too!

My daughter delights in the following:

Family :: Mr. Bear flies! video by PilotDAR - Photobucket (http://s381.photobucket.com/albums/oo252/PilotDAR/Family/?action=view&current=MrBearFlies.flv)

[IFMU]

I took my oldest for the first time when he was 5, and my youngest when he was 6. My older boy was more nervous about things in general. We spent a lot of time just sitting in the aircraft (Cessna 140). I never suggested we go flying, just talked it up and waited until he asked me to go. First flight was 40 minutes, I was ready to make it shorter if there was any sign that he was not 100% into it. My second son is on the autistic spectrum, though very high functioning. His first trip consisted of a single trip around the circuit. Just wanted to see how he would do. Transitioned both kids to fly in the glider with me. They both like it a bunch.

The booster seat is critical. I have flown many kids, if they can see out to the front, they will look out. Otherwise they look inside and that can be bad.

At a young age scare then once, or some other bad experience, and they are done. Make your objective not to maximize flying now, but to maximize flying later. Now is introduction/brainwashing. Despite your desire to share flight with your kids, these flights should be biased around them, not around you.

My absolute best flights have been when I take my kids. It is a joy.

-- IFMU

[RatherBeFlying]

The master RBF first flew when he was two. The car seat secured him well enough, but I noticed on taxi that he would reach out to the yoke which was all the way back at the time. He was told not to touch without asking first and that worked out fine. He also had ear muffs.

His difficulty was crosswind landings when he could get sick in the flare -- that's not a time when you have enough hands; so, bring the normal small children items for cleanup and extra clothes;)

Somewhat later he took fright when approaching overwater. Your own children will have their own particularities and there will be times flying the a/c takes priority over placating the little ones:{

[trex450]

just beware very young children in the front in a car seat, they may try to fly with their feet, not too dangerous in the cruise (it will lead to strange looks around when you are drifting along thinking they are asleep and the aircraft performs an unexplained "nod") but obviously something to be aware of on the approach. They will love flying providing they stay awake, as a rule of thumb airsickness is not an issue under four The best thing about flying children in private aircraft is that they can have a go at flying, they are very good at it especially considering they are usually on instruments only due to height. Make sure that they have a headset though as over the years I have had experienced children who would not let go of the controls until they have had an explanation as to why it is important. Also of course it means they can feel even more part of the experience. Don't let their age put you off doing taking them flying but just make sure that you are comfortable with it to start with.

[jxc]

my kids love it 15, 8, & 6month just gentle climbs and turns for the 6month old one

[penguin-uk]

I took mine for her first flight the other day (since she was born anyway) at 4 months old - only a 30 min flight either way to start off. No problem at all and fell asleep just after takeoff and didn't wake up again until the car seat was being taken back out of the plane. Nice to know that she can now go and she her Nanny regularly who lives 5 mins from an airfield :)

[CessnaCJM]

Also remember that on on a longish flight they can lose interest in the if they are in the back very quickly - PSP3 seems to be the rage at the moment:)

[FlyingOfficerKite]

We used to strap our daughter into a car child seat and then into the aircraft using the seat belt - and ensured that she wore ear defenders.

We had a number of enjoyable days out and found that she more often than not fell asleep, but was never ill.

Flights were limited to around an hour.

Flew to Cark and visited Holker Hall - the man on the gate looked sideways as we pushed the buggy (with no car) - particularly when we said we had come from Manchester!

Flew to Wellesbourne and had a good day in Stratford.

Flew to Skegness for a fly-in (that won't happen again).

Flew to Caernarfon for the day.

All good fun.

KR

FOK

[S-Works]

Just make sure the window is big enough, you don't want to be battling against the airstream......

[Heliplane]

I still have not taken my eldest up yet (he's 2yrs 8 months) but when I do, I'll strap his car seat into the aircraft (I have done this some time ago with someone else's child and it worked very well).

I'll also make sure he has a properly fitting headset.

I'm planning to teach him to walk behind other aircraft on the ground (not too many pusher props around fortunately) and, an idea from a previous post, offer £1 for every aircraft spotted in the air!

In the meantime, he's enjoyed sitting in the plane and playing with the controls.

[BackPacker]

just gentle climbs and turns for the 6month old one

If you fly long-distance at a reasonable altitude, make sure you plan your descent well ahead, and really gradual. Small children cannot be explained how to "pop" their ears and this can be very painful, especially with a cold.

Initially I would plan on significantly less than 500 feet/min, and see how that goes.

[MichaelJP59]

Thought about taking mine (boy age 6) - though I reckon a factor is are they old enough to get out themselves after a forced landing. Or does no-one worry about that?

We all decide to take the risk of GA, most of us SEP in uncontrolled airspace (which is sometimes compared in level of risk to motorcycling) but should we decide for someone else who is too young to decide? I haven't made up my mind either way yet but wondered if anyone else had thought about it.

[fireflybob]

Recall my dad taking me up in the Chipmunk when I was about 7 years old circa late 50s - we also did a loop and a stall turn! Little did he know what he was starting!

[Halfbaked_Boy]

FOK,

Flew to Cark and visited Holker Hall - the man on the gate looked sideways as we pushed the buggy (with no car) - particularly when we said we had come from Manchester!

Haha brilliant :ok:

Flew to Skegness for a fly-in (that won't happen again).

How come? I've never flown in there myself but the stories I've heard certainly haven't been bad! :)

[VOD80]

We all decide to take the risk of GA, most of us SEP in uncontrolled airspace (which is sometimes compared in level of risk to motorcycling) but should we decide for someone else who is too young to decide? I haven't made up my mind either way yet but wondered if anyone else had thought about it.

I have no problem doing this with my children - albeit they are a bit older. As parents we ARE supposed to be the ones deciding for them! Certainly wouldn't want anyone from "government" or even worse Brussels :yuk: doing this for me!

I personally don't think the risk is enormous. Very few people actually die in aeroplane crashes. With my previous track record it'll probably be a slow crash at the end of the runway.

[IO540]

I took my boys up when they were about 6 onwards.

I would recommend having somebody else in the plane, to deal with situations that may arise - for the first flight or two anyway. And see how it goes.

The issue I had was that my ex demanded a 2nd pilot, which made fly-away expensive (I had to pay for an extra hotel room, food, etc). It was nearly 10 years before she gave up on that. (She had no legal ability to require this, BTW, but I gather it is not an uncommon controlling ploy).

My older son lost interest by the time he was 10 (7 years ago) but the younger one (now 14) became aeroplane crazy. He flies to a mid-PPL standard now, and could certainly land if he had to.

Headsets are obviously vital. The cockpit is normally far too noisy without headsets. My bose-x ones were fine - they have soft earcups. Some of the cheapo ones I have worn in the distant past were truly crap - like having one's head in a vice and would not be good for a child.

And make sure you have some juice in the tanks ;)

And don't do anything stupid. A Seneca which lived in the same hangar as my plane got embedded in the side of a mountain, in a +TSRA, on a "VFR" flight on solid IMC. Killed 2 adults and a 7 year old. I doubt the pilot ever checked the enroute weather.

[FlyingOfficerKite]

Halfbaked Boy

Unfortunately Skegness - Ingoldmells closed shortly after the fly-in (which is the reason we went). Met up with my first instructor Dave Coulson and saw one of the Austers I had flown in with my father 30 years before when they flew pleasure flights back in the 60s.

All gone now I'm afraid.

KR

FOK

[Gertrude the Wombat]

At a young age scare then once, or some other bad experience, and they are done.
Didn't scare any of them when young ... but my 19yo daughter got scared on our last flight and said she's never going to ride in a light aircraft again.

Wasn't that big a deal ... we got the engine going again, and we had plenty of time to try other things from 9,000'.

[clearedtocross]

I never had any problem taking along kids and dog. As was posted before, they usually fell asleep soon (the dog always got up on finals, the kids when cutting the engine).
But beware of the noise. Childrens ears are very sensitive, so make sure their ears are well protected. Normal headsets won't do, they slip away. Use some in-the-ear noise protection. Have fun!
ctc

[QDMQDMQDM]

Number one child flew at 4 1/2 alone in the back seat of the Cub.
Number two child at 2 1/2.
Number three child at 6.

It was all driven by the children concerned, although number two was pretty exceptional. Initially I took the stick out of the back, but stopped doing that quite quickly. They understand pretty quickly that if they muck about they risk dying, along with you. I think it's good for them to have that appreciation at an early age.

[IFMU]

Wasn't that big a deal ... we got the engine going again, and we had plenty of time to try other things from 9,000'.
My older brother had a similar experience, at a similar age. My dad was flying us somewhere, we were in weather and filed IFR, and skirted a t-storm. It didn't bother me as much, but my brother was done.

Last October I had my older boy in the back of the 2-33, and we had a rope break at 100'. Harris Hill is on a ridge, and we had the emergency field made. However, as I got down by the hang glider launch area, the ridge started working and I climbed 600', enough to land back. He thought it was great, has the busted piece of rope on his cork board.

I have a flying kids story from a different perspective too - my own childhood. On a flight in either the C172 or Debonair, I don't remember which, with me in the front and my older sister & brother in the back. My dad asked if I wanted to fly. I said sure, but I could just get my fingers to the yoke. As I was trying to get purchase, I realized it could slide back, so for proper ergonomics I pulled it back to the stop. Brother & sister screaming in the back, then after apologizing to each other for all the bad things they ever did to each other. Guess they thought they were goners. My dad hammerheaded (stall turned if you prefer) out the top and all was well. Having shown myself a child's capability to make mischief in an airplane, I am ever aware of the possibility.

-- IFMU

[Dan Winterland]

I oftern used to get phone calls from the local flying club asking if I could do a quick instruction flight. If it was my turn to look after the kids, no problem. Just took them with me and strapped them in the back in car seats. They loved it. Particularly the stalling exercises!

[tomtom_91]

We take cubs and scouts flying and never have a problem bit older then your kids but most seem to enjoy it.

I guess its important to tell your child that if they are scared and dont like it to tell you and then you just return to the airfield although I am sure they will love it and will keep asking after when they are flying next!

TW

[akaSylvia]

My son was six and suffered from unexpected air sickness. The first flight, he started screaming into his headset as I was on finals - his stomach hurt badly and he couldn't believe that his mummy wasn't even *trying* to make it better. Luckily my other half hit the mute button so that I could use the radio - it's worth bearing in mind that despite warnings, under pressure you might find the child forgets what he's been told.

Obviously we had even more long talks about what was happening and remaining silent even when sick as a dog. It's odd as he quite happily sits in the backseat and reads during long country drives, but I've learned to give him a Quells before putting him in the PA32. :ouch:

[Dr_Tre]

Anyone have any tips on securing a car seat into a PA28? The rear seats only have lap belts. My son is only 10 months old so he's a bit too young for just a booster seat. :)

[FlyingOfficerKite]

We used to strap our daughter into a car child seat and strap that seat plus child into the aircraft using the lap strap in the back of the PA28-140. The seat was secure and stable. Ear defenders, buggy tucked behind the other seat and a picnic basket completed the ensemble.

KR

FOK

PS wife sat in front!

[Ryan5252]

PS wife sat in front! Ah crap! :}

Thanks to all for the productive and informative replies. Some real food for thought here, thanks again!

Ryan

[Dr_Tre]

Just remembered about Safe Airplane Travel for Kids - CARES Child Aviation Restraint System | Kids Fly Safe - CARES | Kids Fly Safe (http://www.kidsflysafe.com/)

CAA approved too! (wonder how much that cost them!?!)

I think this would work :ok:

[amostcivilpilot]

:)

I have been involved in air experience flights both in rotary and fixed wing for over 25 years with youngsters from the age of 6 up to 16 in a wide range of aircraft from a Cessna 150 to the S61N.

I have taken each of my own 3 boys flying from when they have all been under 1 year old. The risk is not in the flying but in the mind set.

They are now 12, 5 and 3.

They love it and regularly fly with me. However my wife, with 20+ years as cabin crew, cannot get her head around the whole pilot thing (yet she still wants the occasional jolly with the boys) and wonders why I want to "stall" the helicopter when coming into the hover!!!

The boys just roll around laughing at her :E

The basic premise in my opinion is: D'ont be nervous, explain what you are doing, and be aware of your own and their limitations and make the experience an enjoyable one. And as has been pointed out, young children tend to go to sleep anyway so it is the parents you need to worry about :eek:

Safe flying

AMCP