Qantas Group A330 Changes

[MyerFlyer]

Hi all,

As you may know the QF group has at least 6 additional A332s that will begin to be delivered from NOV this year.

VH-EBO will be delivered new to QF in November with the new QF domestic config/product. VH-EBO will directly replace A332 VH-EBJ which will then move across to JQ. (VH-EBJ is the only QF domestic A330 that doesnt have the new seats/IFE)

VH-EBP onwards will all be delivered to Jetstar.

Now any news on the talk of SYD-MNL, SYD-HNL, and some AKL-LAX with a possible extension to JFK all going A330?

Should be a few spare A330s once the B744s take over the SYD-NRT-SYD route.....

[ditch handle]

Heard from a colleague who was speaking with a QF A330 management pilot recently that decisions were being made about whether to have fitted an underfloor cabin crew rest facility to two of these aircraft.

For the rumoured expansion of Onestar to Europe perhaps.......?

[Capt Fathom]

For the rumoured expansion of Onestar to Europe perhaps.......?

Onestar will NOT require a Crewrest facility!

[ditch handle]

Yes that had occurred to me too.

Jump seats in full view of passengers are perfectly adequate for the cabin crew to sit on.:yuk:

[mohikan]

Who is paying for the 5 A332's that are going to JQI ? Not Jetstar I bet....

In fact, my mail is that the 'legacy carrier' is footing the bill, yet again...

[ratpoison]

once the B744s take over the SYD-NRT-SYD route
Yes and the 744 boys and gals should not start getting toooo excited about the amount of drunken falls they will have down the Cage steps. Jokestar cannot replace a QF A330 route due to some bullsh*t agreement in place. Therefore the Irish pumper needs to have it replace a different type. Hence the 744, but for a wee time only now. I will bet my Scot left nut the orange disgrace will replace it before Xmas.

[VR-HFX]

Why not just give CX rights to fly direct OZ to Japan rather than force all the punters to transit HK. Wouldn't that be more logical:cool:

[fatigueflyer]

Orange cancer continues to spread......love it!:ok:

[Taildragger67]

Ditch,

Would the underfloor CC rest not be required for AKL-LAX?

[DutchRoll]

Who is paying for the 5 A332's that are going to JQI ? Not Jetstar I bet....
No-one (in their right mind) is going to take that bet on!

[fatigueflyer]

Dutchroll, watch this space!!

[ditch handle]

Ditch,

Would the underfloor CC rest not be required for AKL-LAX?

Yes, but the FAAA give the company dispensation for that sector.

[OliverGigacz]

Has there been any updates on the Qantas Group A332s orders. Is Qantas still getting a new build in Q4 2010?

Plus when are deliveries suppose to begin of the new build Jetstar A332s.

[slim]

I have good intel that the A330 will be pulled from AKL-LAX & LAX-JFK around the end of the year due pax (premium) feedback & freight considerations. 744 to resume these services. Another case of accountants thinking they know best :rolleyes:

[PPRuNeUser0198]

due pax (premium) feedback

I am not sure what the difference is between a 744 Skybed and a 330 Skybed that would raise a 'premium' pax concern. In particular the fact that J class and even P class is so poorly represented on that route and in particular, made up primarily of FF's and staff...

[TBM-Legend]

Who is paying for the 5 A332's that are going to JQI ? Not Jetstar I bet....

In fact, my mail is that the 'legacy carrier' is footing the bill, yet again...


Last I heard the "Legacy" carrier owned Jet*...:}

[Going Boeing]

I am not sure what the difference is between a 744 Skybed and a 330 Skybed that would raise a 'premium' pax concern. In particular the fact that J class and even P class is so poorly represented on that route and in particular, made up primarily of FF's and staff...

T-Vasis, the premium loads of commercial pax on the LAX-JFK-LAX sectors was very high in the first half of the year (ie prior to the A332 being substituted) and it is this genuine business traffic that is upset at being shoe-horned onto an A332 which doesn't have First & Premium Economy cabins and the Business cabin which is a lot smaller. Also, there is a lot of freight that is not able to be carried due to the volumetric limits of the A332 hold - freight on that route is lucrative due to the low numbers of wide-body aircraft operating across the US.

Last I heard the "Legacy" carrier owned Jet*...

TBM, the thing that pisses mainline staff off is the creative accounting (& lack of transparency) that senior Qantas Group executives use to make it look like Jetstar has lower costs per seat kilometre than its rivals. It certainly would make interesting reading to find out how Jetstars DOC's are dealt with in the "Groups accounts".

Wrt future A332 deliveries (the higher gross weight aircraft), they do not appear on the list of A330 deliveries on the QF Flight Crew website which would indicate that they are not planned to have Oz registrations. Previously, Jetstar management indicated that Jetstar Asia would be getting 2 A332's but I believe that they will be getting all 5 HGW versions which will enable them to operate the ATH & FCO routes as well as NRT etc.

[MyerFlyer]

Well I guess it makes sense... QF have 3 A380s due soon which will then free up 3 B744s to move back onto the AKL-LAX and LAX-JFK routes.

This will then free up intl A330s to be used else where. Joyce has already hinted at increasing services to Asia with HKG, PVG, and NRT all performing well.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

premium loads of commercial pax on the LAX-JFK-LAX sectors was very high in the first half of the year

Are you able to validate that the customers in J/P are actually commercial fare customers?

business traffic that is upset at being shoe-horned onto an A332 which doesn't have First & Premium Economy cabins

I am not sure Premium Economy is a 'premium traffic' cabin. J/P are the premium customer.

If freight is so lucrative and QF has no restrictions on freight carriage, then why did QF switch to a 330? The yield from freight alone would almost warrant operating a 744 daily? I am not sure this is a major component for QF, otherwise I would think the downgrade would be somewhat unusual?

Traffic numbers on the JFK run are certainly not inspirational and considering rights are limited to ex AUS traffic, I see great economic benefits for QF to operate a 330 instead to secure the right mix of passenger numbers, yield and operating costs...

[Going Boeing]

Are you able to validate that the customers in J/P are actually commercial fare customers?

From my own experience flying that route and from the LAX & JFK Airport Managers - the JFK Airport Manager didn't want the change in aircraft type but her superiors said that "it was going to save millions".

I am not sure Premium Economy is a 'premium traffic' cabin.

QF Commercial certainly considers them to be 'premium traffic'.

If freight is so lucrative and QF has no restrictions on freight carriage, then why did QF switch to a 330?

Boston Consulting Group is looking at every aspect of the Qantas operation trying to find ways to reduce costs - this was their idea but as is usual when people look only at the accounting figures, they come unstuck on operational matters (eg the ATI B767 Freighter operating across the Tasman - BCG didn't understand ETOPS requirements & that aircraft only has 60 mins single engine approval).

The other aspect of the A330 JFK ops is how many pax have we lost to the opposition on the AKL-LAX-AKL sectors? The B744 (2 class with 412 seats) had high average load factors on the route and now we operate the route with an aircraft with only 60% of the capacity.

[standard unit]

Going Boeing speaks the truth and proves the age old adage.

If anyone can find ways to, "spend pounds to save pennies" it's Qantas :ok:

The airline with no corporate memory.......

[stubby jumbo]

BCG are just a bunch of accountants with clip boards who have no idea how the operation runs ....just the $$$$$. Its a " Stuff the punter " approach and save the client (QF) money....then we get our bonus. They don't care about the long term viability of a route.

The 330 is NOT the aircraft to have on the LAX-JFK-LAX.

Pax are blowing up on every sector........especially the Platinums. The 777 would of been the right aircraft......but lets not open up that wound again.

In the meantime.....get the 744 back on -ASAP!

Send those BCG clowns to do an audit on QCA/9......wonder if they have Tim Tams in the kitchen up there??? That might save some $$$$$$:ugh:

[ditzyboy]

Pax are blowing up on every sector........

Do you have any examples of what pax are upset about?

Is it that J full due its size and no P or W cabin?

[PPRuNeUser0198]

I struggle to see why a 'J class premium customer' would be disappointed with the 330? It has a self service bar, mood lighting and two abreast seating - much better then the dreaded middle J seat on the 744 and the aircraft is much quieter...

The interior looks sharper and fresher then the older 744's...I don't understand the problem.

[Autobrakes4]

"I struggle to see why a 'J class premium customer' would be disappointed with the 330? It has a self service bar, mood lighting and two abreast seating - much better then the dreaded middle J seat on the 744 and the aircraft is much quieter...

The interior looks sharper and fresher then the older 744's...I don't understand the problem."

I think you will find that the flight attendants are the one's that have the problem with the A330, not the passengers! They're just using the passengers as the excuse to push there own issues with the aircraft. They obviously prefer to work on the 747! :eek:

[Going Boeing]

"I struggle to see why a 'J class premium customer' would be disappointed with the 330? It has a self service bar, mood lighting and two abreast seating - much better then the dreaded middle J seat on the 744 and the aircraft is much quieter...

I don't think that anyone is knocking the A332 business class cabin. The seat is essentially the same (slightly narrower to allow 6 abreast config) and it is quieter (due to cruising slower) - it's just that the demand exceeds the cabin capacity as well as the lack of First and Premium Economy seats.

[Capt Kremin]

It is simple economics really. The 744 was losing money on the route. If the A330 loses less, or makes a profit then other considerations; like 744 pilots hanging on to any slim hope they may get their treasured destination back, don't amount to much at all.

[stubby jumbo]

Hey AutoBrakes,
This has nothing at all to do with ...."F/A's using it pax to push their own issues". Those pax you refer to are full paying customers.

The issue is that their EXPECTATION is to fly from SYD/MEL to JFK ( LAX transit) in P/C, Premium Y/C or J/C.....all the way.

The Yield Management boffins generally oversell in J/C on the LAX-JFK-LAX sectors.

AND.......surprise surprise......no one within Frequent Flyer or Res bothers to tell these "pax" about the 330. Result generally is that they find out at Left 1 !! :eek: And yes.....the crew then have to sort it out.

So park your obvious "stereotypical F/A" view. We are NOT all a bunch of wingeing prats who want to be on MAX time off !:ugh:

I in fact enjoy working on the A-330 and bid accordingly. My point is all about whats best for the people who pay our wages.

[Autobrakes4]

stubby jumbo, yeah right. :ugh:

[skybed]

the A332 on above mentioned sectors I can confirm that premium customers DO NOT like to be on the A332 on longe range sectors. the business class seats do not compete with the Air NZ product or the A380. its simple, there is a choice out there. Hence QF in JC has had very light loads on these sectors:ugh:

[dizzylizzy]

I don't understand what can be so uncomfortable about the A332 on a 6hr flight in either class? Sure it doesn't offer W but I assume they'd be upgraded to J like they do on most int sectors?

[C441]

So, let me see if I've got this right.

The 744 had about 70 P and J seats operating at, on average, 60% commercial loads or around 40-45 pax from AKL-LAX and then to JFK.

But that didn't make enough money so we'll send at least 10-15 commercial pax to someone else's airline for 5 days a week and all of them elsewhere on 2 days a week and hope that the other 30-odd stay with us on the 330 on the days we choose to operate it. Hey, but if we can get say 80% commercial loads we'll make squillions.

By that logic, why are we even considering more A-380's? If we get some smaller aircraft they'll always be full and our bonus will multiply handsomely.:rolleyes:

[Going Boeing]

Dizzy, you are forgetting about the 12 - 14 hour sectors AKL-LAX-AKL and the J class cabin is not big enough to allow all the W pax to be upgraded.

C441, spot on - they think that they are Rocket Scientists.

CK, this thread is a discussion about the logic behind the type change, not a desire to hold onto a destination.

[Capt Kremin]

The -400 guys didn't really care when the A330 was only operating AKL-LAX. Now that it is going on to JFK they are all suddenly vitally concerned over operating costs. Gimme a break....
Routes come and go. If it is profitable then the A330 will stay, if not, then they will try something else. One thing is for certain, whingeing about it on PPRUNE won't change a thing.
To the bunch of idiots at Fatty's a few weeks ago who were calling A330 pilots "scabs" for accepting the crew seat, take a long hard look at yourselves.

[Keg]

Actually I think people like Going Boeing have been pretty consistent in his critique of using the A330 AKL-LAX-AKL and subsequently sending it to JFK.

[skybed]

taking 2 seats out of the J/C front cabin to have a S/O watch movies most of the night and sleep a little. in view of all the pax seing them swapping in/out. genius-not:ugh:

[Capt Kremin]

Of course the alternative is to provide an underfloor crew-rest, with a 1000kg weight penalty BOTH ways plus loss of freight capacity as against the SO crew seat one way.
Maybe you need to think that through?

[ditzyboy]

taking 2 seats out of the J/C front cabin to have a S/O watch movies most of the night and sleep a little. in view of all the pax seing them swapping in/out. genius-not

Not ideal, but many airlines have set ups where there is curtained TC rest in the premium cabin, either in place of a 'proper' rest area or due to extra operating crew. It is less common to use row 1, but it happens.

[blow.n.gasket]

I thought most of the passenger gripe was due to the inconsistancy of "guage" for all points west of the 'Island of the wrong white crowd"
ie: having to fly with JitCinnict to reach any other points in Australia once they've crossed the bug dutch en the 330.:rolleyes:

[MyerFlyer]

Interesting press release today:

About Qantas - Media Room - Media Releases (http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/publicaffairs/details?ArticleID=2010/aug10/5013)


Mr Joyce said an A330-300 will be added from January with a further five B737-800s being progressively added to the domestic network from March 2011.

“These aircraft will be deployed on a variety of growth markets, including the east coast, east – west and intra WA markets,” Mr Joyce said.

Wonder where the A330-300 will come from? New? Leased?

Pulled of Intl routes? Cant see how... The A333 fleet is already maxed out with Intl flying as it is. MNL goes A333 from NOV as well.

hmmmm

[tourismman]

From a old 744 route which became a A330 route 2-3 years ago and soon will become a 744 route once again..How you Southerners forget about the Sunshine State.

[MyerFlyer]

Looks like the QF press release has been corrected:

Mr Joyce said an A330-200 will be added from January with a further five B737-800s being progressively added to the domestic network from March 2011.

Must be the new domestic A332 due at the end of the year.

Thanks

[dizzylizzy]

EBO? Isn't EBJ being sent to Jetstar so that's not really an increase more a replacement?

[chockchucker]

As for only five 737-800's being added from March next year, that doesn't equate with the fact that Qantas will be taking delivery of 14 737-800's next year (and another 14 in 2012)


Where are all the others going? Jetconnect?

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

Classic retirements?

[cynphil]

Chockchucker.....extra 738's to replace aging 737 Classics, so no increase in unit numbers!!

[dizzylizzy]

They won't start retiring the 734's just yet...

[airtags]

Myerflyer - answer to your Q:
the extra 330 capcity arises from 744 being deployed on China routes for the Northern Winter Season. IASC application for capcity increase lodged this week

[Capt Kremin]

Rumour going around that the 744 will do all the NRT services during Northern winter.... makes sense I suppose.

[stubby jumbo]

nah......lets treat the Japan route with the usual contempt that QF is accustomed .

Bring back..... VH-EBY,EBX-quick refit, spruce up !:ok:

[Capt Kremin]

Why is that question posted on a thread about the A330?