Cheapest, Lightest 2 man liferaft?

[one2go]

Summer's almost here and we'll all be heading for France again.

But.....we want a 2 man liferaft.

Anyone got a contact/ recommendation?

Anyone interested in forming a bulk order and try and negociate a discount?

Cheers

[IO540]

Look at Harry Mandessohn (http://www.gps.co.uk/) and the Survival Products stuff.

Not sure about a "2-man" raft; the compact ones are called "4-man" although if you spent a week in one of them, 4-up, you would definitely be on first name terms at the end of it, and probably married (a bit like what happens in a gliding club :) ).

Not much change from £1000, for something that floats.

I have the 1400-3, listed at £1053 inc VAT. It used to cost about £1200. It's quite light and managable.

[Skittles]

For me, a life raft is one thing for which price would be no object :}

[Cat.S]

Try Force 4. The Seago 4 man is £549

Seago Liferaft - 4 Man Valise - Only £549.00 - Force 4 Chandlery (http://www.force4.co.uk/169/Seago-Liferaft---4-Man-Valise.html)

[POBJOY]

I went down this route a couple of years ago and went to the boat show to check out the quality of different makes.
You are looking at a four man raft with a weight of 22-26 kg in valise form.
The aviation ones are lighter but also light weight built,and expensive.
I decided upon the Plasimo Cruiser. Very well built and good value for money.
Or you could put the money towards a top overhaul on the engine!!
Pobjoy

[Double Zero]

Gents,

Though I've been an aerial photographer since 1979, funnily enough the only aircraft I've been in with liferafts were fast jets or things like HS125's.

I am a qualified yachtie though; I have also wished there was a 2-man liferaft, as that's all I need to carry ( and pay for ) on board, but you're right, apart from rather specialised 1-man jobs for bang seats, the smallest normally available is 4 man; in fact a problem if anything in being too large with just a couple inside, as the lack of weight makes it likelier to capsize in bad seas.

If planning to be in remote areas, purchasing liferafts becomes a serious research job, with things like thermally insulated floors well worth paying for.

I agree with what I think you are suggesting, that relatively cheap n' cheerful should do for a summertime flight across the Channel, as it would be unlucky not to get out a Mayday, and if you have filed a flightplan you will soon be missed, if not observed going down.

Part of our yottie training is that a waterproof handheld VHF ( about £100 upwards ) is well worth having, as lifeboats & SAR a/c can D/F onto it; beware though that communication is said to be impossible with a helo' directly overhead.

Liferaft training practical courses which include boarding from water & righting from capsize are available through a lot of Royal Yachting Association centres, might be even more use to non-sailors, as we are usually used to being semi-trapped under racing dinghies etc; I'm not sure if such a course would give confidence to nervous aerial passengers, or put them off for life !

I have no idea if there are reg's ruling out marine liferafts, if not they start with perfectly acceptable ( for purposes outlined above ) 4-man jobs at just under £500.

Anything with ' marine ' on the label always doubles the price at least, though I can't think of many other uses for a liferaft, while ' aviation ' doubles even that price again.

BTW, Distress flares are going out of fashion quite rapidly in favour of EPIRBS among yotties, especially after a hand flare being correctly demonstrated by an instructor malfunctioned and fired through the base, filling his stomach with burning phosphorous. He survived, just, but is still badly hurt.

I have often wondered about lifejackets for aircraft; most medium / high spec' ones are now automatic with manual and oral Plan B & C, but I'd think being in a sinking aircraft I'd much rather not have the jacket inflate until I was outside, a shame though as otherwise an auto job would save one if knocked unconscious.

In case you're not seriously familiar with modern lifejackets, ' spume visors ' to protect the face are now regarded near essential to prevent drowning, even when bouyant, from driven waves & spray.

Hope that's some use and I'm not teaching granny to suck eggs, I'd be interested myself in the airworthiness reg's on rafts; safe trips, DZ.

[Rod1]

I think we have covered this before. I seem to remember that you can get a 1 man “military spec” raft which is just up to carrying two people. Have a go with the serch engine, and check Flyer Forum as well.

Rod1

[IO540]

That Seago raft looks good and is a lot cheaper than aviation ones, but 23.5kg is quite a lot. Not for carrying (some people are heavy enough!) but for hauling out of the back seat or whatever in a hurry.

A few years ago mine went for an overhaul and I rented an RFD raft which weighed over 20kg. It was damn heavy...

[englishal]

I wanted to get two of these:

http://sportys.com/source/images/products/large/12070.jpg

One Man Life Raft - Sporty's Pilot Shop (http://sportys.com/PilotShop/product/12070)

Only 7lbs each and not a bad price. Trouble is shipping is a problem due to the gas cylinders and therefore I can't hand carry back from the USA.....

[IO540]

They have to go sea freight.

That's no problem organising but is a hassle and most of the suppliers are too dumb to do the paperwork.

I once had an American firm send a parcel to my correct UK address but in Hong Kong instead of UK, and when I asked their Export Manager what happened, she replied that she thought the UK was in Hong Kong.

SF works out a bit pricey for small stuff because of the freight forwarding charges. The list is as long as one's arm. Last week we got a SF shipment in from China on which the freight was £40 (for 500kg - not bad!) but the other charges (about 10-15 of them; stuff like port handling) came to £300.

I tried to buy some Switlik life jackets a while ago and came across the same issues. Mind you, the US vendor was less than interested in selling their products to a "foreign country", which didn't help :)

One can do this by getting a mate in the USA to send it by say UPS, with a moderately false item description. Nobody looks inside the package before it leaves, and only Customs might open it upon arrival, and by then it doesn't matter. With a life jacket or a raft one might get away with it because the cylinder is not exactly obvious and one could just call it "inflatable item".

[A and C]

I would think that a good idea would be two one man rafts from SES. these are military spec and usualy found in the seat pans of "bang seats"
These rafts can take two persons at a push so there is some added safety.

Aircrew Liferafts & Lifejackets (http://www.ses-safety.com/Liferafts-Lifejackets.html)

As to the transport a packed life raft becomes Class 9 dangerous goods and as such has NO RESTRICTION for carrage on civil aircraft (passenger or cargo) the problem is that this is not fully understood by some shippers who see this is a chance to make a little more money, unfortunatly I cant remember the UN DG ref number off the top of my head>

[Nipper2]

Are you guys sure there really is a blanket ban on gas cylinders? I work in the marine industry and after a bit of a kerfuffle a few years ago, once it was pointed out to the powers that be, that the gas cylinders in our life-jackets were the self same ones as were stowed under every seat, the problem seems to have gone away.

I regularly ship my lifejacket as declared hold-baggage around Europe and further beyond. Occasionally we have to get out a letter from the manufacturer to say what it is, but usually there is no problem.

[A and C]

I guess that you were typing as I posted the above, gas cylinders are subject to all sorts of regulations when shipped alone but as soon as they are packed in a liferaft or life jacket they become "DG class 9 life saving equipment" and have no restriction on carrage by air (in the cargo hold).

[englishal]

I'd like to hand carry a couple of these rafts home, and both you, me and the pilot of the B747 would know that these "aviation" rafts are perfectly safe to carry in a pax aircraft, but how do you convince the numpty check in staff? I wonder if one can get a letter from BA or someone stating they are safe?

In the "good old days" before i knew any better, I used to travel back and forth to Edinburgh with a tool box with liquid cathode lithium batteries rolling around in it....We used to use these in fuses of bombs due to their long shelf life.

It was only after one day working at the Royal Navy Armaments Depot at Crombie, where they took me to the burning ground to "burn" a few off that I realised that this probably wasn't such a good idea ;)

[A and C]

I have an email from BA that says that I can carry the SES one man life raft as hold baggage if it is packed inside my case.

If you have trouble with the check in staff tell them to get you a copy of the IATA dangerous goods manual and look it up!

A life raft is in Class 9 (life saving equipment) and it's carrage is unrestricted, I will try to get a copy of the page in the regulations and post it on this thread.

[gyrotyro]

Cat S...


Seago Liferaft - 4 Man Valise - Only £549.00 - Force 4 Chandlery


Have you seen the weight of that one ? it weighs 23.5 kilos ! Try lugging that out of a sinking aircraft.

Most aviation ones weigh 9 kilos.

[Maoraigh1]

Is it there a difference in specification between marine and aviation lifejackets and liferafts? It doesn't matter if a marine item inflates spontaneously, but an inflated liferaft in a small aircraft could be a problem.

[Fright Level]

Seago Liferaft - 4 Man Valise - Only £549.00 - Force 4 Chandlery

I bought one of these last year after thinking the same thing. I sent it back after trying to move it around. It is very densely packed and very difficult to move around, even two handed. I decided that there is absolutely no way an able bodied person could get that out of a ditched aircraft in calm conditions, inflated and boarded.

A waste of money that could only induce a false sense of security so I sent it back by DHL. They called me later in the day and asked me to collect it from their depot as they wouldn't ship "compressed gases" even by road. Had to take it back to the chandlers myself.

On the deck of a boat, no problem. In the confines of a GA aircraft, useless.

[generalspecific]

For long overwaters, I have a mil spec vest with an epirb and all the survival gear. No knife and no flares, but everything else concievable is stuffed in (heli's glide badly and float even less well than that.. floats notwithstanding).

ALthough ready with chapter and verse on why it is legal and non hazardous to flight, I have never once been questioned about it, despite transiting the US, Canada, Aus, UK etc etc.

I have often wondered why. I can't really believe that the average burger flipper in a uniform can distinguish and accept the vest for what it is (a safety item delibarately desinged and certified for and thus non hazardous in carriage for aircraft). Yet it also seems amazing that the gas cylinder and the circuit boards in the epirb and or foil space blanket etc don't raise an eyebrow....

The wierd world of airport security I spose...

Don't even get me started on the palarva of the security check and then most airside doors that all work on the same combination (that derivative of radio freq's) !

[A and C]

You had entered the would of dangerous goods shipping, the problem is that some shippers have decided that it is not worth excepting potentaly Dangerous goods and so dont give staff any training in the subject.

Your liferaft is not a problem for them to ship but the staff have not been given the training to use the books to tell them it is not a problem!

It is quite likely that a shipping company that has done the work to ship dangerous goods would except your liferaft and then ship it via DHL, DHL would then except the shipment because the shipping company has the ability to tell them that it is not a "dangerous goods problem".

[englishal]

Thanks for the tip A&C, I'll get a copy and email BA anyway.

Cheers