Dragging Your Arse In HKG

[Noddys car]

Post edited

One of our fine A340s is currently AOG in LHR after a suspected tail strike ex HKG.

Could be out the pack for a while (B-HXC those who are interested)

[water check]

....'there but for the grace of'..... I don't think we need to add to whoever did it's misery by naming him on a public forum. Anyone can have a bad day...

[r1flyguy35]

I find it odd....

When HKA make a cock up, it is nothing but slagging off from all and sundry on here, when CX do something....

Nothing, not a thing is mentioned....:ugh:

All the members on here must work for CX :D

Anyway enough said :ok:

[Capt Toss Parker]

When I was in the air force flying the slippery 120kt Caribou widow maker, we were taught the correct way to rotate an aircraft.

The problem with CX is the briefs are not up to scratch, this whole CTWO thing doesn't cover enough ground. If the guys had briefed how they would rotate the aircraft for the conditions presented then the outcome would have been different.

I've never flown an airbus but let me tell you a few things. Do not try and snatch and grab a heavy 340. Once VR green dot purple speed is displayed on the screen gently ease back on the Nintendo stick and allow the wing to generate some lift and fly a little. Look outside and maintain the horizon in your peripheral even under IMC, when the mountains get smaller then you can ease back some more and reach for the sky.

Groupwise me CRWTOSS or under crew contacts feel free to call me.

[No-Wai]

Oh sh$t. I just laughed so hard I barfed. Keep em coming "Toss" :D:ok:

[LongTimeInCX]

The only reason I can think of, other than pure inquisitiveness, for people to know who it was, is so that if a convenient quite moment arises with one of these gentlemen, that the subject could be discussed with a view to finding out what happened, why it happened, and how the rest of us can learn from it and avoid such an incident in the future.

It's easy enough to find out who they are, (but please dont plaster their names here), by going into the IBM host, option 1 for a/c movements, 2.1 for the specific aircraft reg, that will give you the date and flt number, then go to crew direct, and there they are.
There for the grace of god.....
May I humbly suggest that a little discretion is used, or alternatively, wait for the report on the board.

[Neptunus Rex]

Thanks CTP for another amusing lesson for lesser Trolls; yours are by far the best.
Keep it up!

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/taunt.gif

[N1 Vibes]

Understand from those in the know, that 180 deg wind direction changes at the time did not help. You may find, if you dig just a little deeper than the the top crust of the brown stuff, that one of the CX Tractor division twins also dragged it's a$$ on T/O affected by same wind conditions, only 20 mins after the 'Cochon Plastique'......and that doesn't have a nintendo joystick.

Brgd's

N1 Vibes

[Cactusjack]

I beleive members of 'the management' were on that flight and seated aft due to all the crewing and paxing pilots sitting up front ! It may have been the managements loaded wallets that caused the stike ??

[Gravox]

This is a rumour network- but I heard the crew didnt know about the scrape until arriving in London when one of the FAs mentioned that they had heard a bang on rotation out of HKG all those hours earlier.

If thats true its great to see CRM working well. :mad:

[SloppyJoe]

I expect on a LHR flight there would have been someone down the back as a pax who would have heard the bang also and not wait 13 hours to mention it as would be pretty obvious what it probably was. If there was a bang that is unbelievable that it was not mentioned until LHR.

[buggaluggs]

Sloppy... you obviously haven't done one of our cockpit/cabin crew mixed CRM days lately, in my humble opinion CX's greatest flight safety issue is cabin/cockpit comm's, some of the stories from these CRM days are, frankly, f**k'n frightening. :ooh:

I feel safer with the DG's on the freighter!

That, and I get to make my own coffee! :}

[turnandburn]

I feel safer with the GDs faaaaaaaarcking burning after my crm day

[AnAmusedReader]

Have been reading but not contributing for a while but this one has to be commented on.

Dear Captain Toss, in another of his erudite and amusing posts, wrote in another thread:


Did you know I was selected out of 2000 people the be the RAAF's intelligence linguistics specialist? .... Let me tell you.


Then in this thread, ignoring the "the be", he writes the word, "periffial"; presumably a play on the word "peripheral". Or perhaps a deliberate spelling mistake ? Heavens forbid that he can't spell the word "peripheral".

Either way, the RAAF's expert would not have become either an intelligence or linguistics specialist in the Real Air Force.

Do keep the amusing posts coming though.

[Capt Toss Parker]

Good Catch "AnAmusedReader"

It's obvious that you have the IQ and skills that this airline needs. I like to throw a curve ball in there once in a while, just to see how long it takes until some one picks it up.

I like to set up the command trainee's all the time with deliberate mistakes especially if they're G.A. guys, it's a pleasure to watch :E

I would say that you're an Air Force chap as well? RAF? It shows.

Most of these Cessna flying hillbillies couldn't spell "peripheral" if their life depended on it, some of them can't even spell VNAV!

Good catch I'll recommend you for training & you too Mr. Vibes.

[AnAmusedReader]

My dear Chap, there's only one Real Air Force; although, even there, standards are falling with the written (and spoken) word.

Keep up the campaign!

AAR

[N1 Vibes]

CTP,

you really must get that sticky apostrophe button fixed:

some of them cant even spell

It's letting you down man!

With greatest and humblest of forelock tugging,

N1 Vibes

[Neptunus Rex]

This is odd. After two errors were pointed out to the Tosser, they are mysteriously corrected, eg 'periffial' in Post #5, yet there is no usual note 'edited by Captain Toss Parker on ....'
How can this be?
Is the Tosser a Mod?


http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/madred.gif

[Capt Toss Parker]

Well spotted Neptunes Rex, 5's in your next ERAS ....

I did edit these mistakes so as not to irritate anymore eagle eyed readers.

If I am to ooze charisma, perfection & excellence in a command like fashion then I had better play by the rules.

Must dash now and get back to my pose, I'm having a portrait painted of me in my uniform to hang in the living room.

Regards,

TOSS

PS: Log on to freerice dot com and brush up on your english I obviously need to:E

[VR-HFX]

Capt Toss

From poolside at the USRC, what is your advice on joystick management when the mountains don't get smaller?

This seems a common phenomenon on the heavy bus with hairdryers and dicky winds. Not something you would ever have experienced with the mighty Caribou or even others in 33 SQDN on the mighty 70; but nonetheless a common question on the plastic fleet.

Please advise appropriate briefing and required periffial vision?

[Neptunus Rex]

Dear Tosser,
In the short time you have been posting here, you have impressed us all with your erudition and experience. However, I fear you are too modest Sir. Branch out from Fragrant Harbour and consider the others that could benefit from your sagacity. Those poor lost souls in BASSA; the demented wannabes in the Pay To Fly schemes; the taxiway take-off merchants - the list is endless. Please do not disappoint

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/shine.gif

[watchyourairspeed]

Dear Toss,

Me and my girlfriend Doris find you a tad charming.

Please let us know if you have hairy chest. We would like to invite you for a sandwich.

Love
WYA

[Oval3Holer]

Toss,

Sticky apostrophe? Looks like it unstuck itself when you pluralized trainees as such: trainee's

You also use run-on sentences and comma splices.

You may be a cunning linguist, but certainly not as good with the written word.

Pilots have never been known as a bunch of good spellers!

Just had to add my two cents...:p

[N1 Vibes]

VR-HFX et al,

maybe I need to be less cryptic:

that one of the CX Tractor division twins also dragged it's a$$ on T/O affected by same wind conditions, only 20 mins after the 'Cochon Plastique'

Translates as:

A Cathay Pacific 777 on T/O 20 mins after the said A340 also experienced some diffculty with the wind conditions and also 'lightly' dragged it's ass.

But of course the Boeing designers know what a 'fat lump' the 777 is and put a tailstrike detector on, so you don't damage your paintwork, as you do on the A340. So on that day the A340 was not a unique case....

Brgd's

N1 Vibes

[Capt Toss Parker]

Good morning gentlemen rather nippy here in the far east, hope you are all well & chipper.

The problem is when you're a serial (BS) artist & FIGJAM, you end up looking like a real idiot when you offer so much advice but can't deliver the goods yourself. :eek:

Must run I need to attend an airline pilot school day here in Kowloon, where kids get to meet a real life jet pilot during their lunch break.

Regards to all. :ok:

[N1 Vibes]

CTP,

I'm not sure I'm following your line of comment here. Do you refute that there was a 777 event on TO on the same day, under the same wind conditions or are you just here to be abused?

Further forelock tugging, fawn, fawn, etc.

N1 Vibes :ugh:

[Bob Hawke]

Dear Capt Toss,

Was there any tail scrapping in the air force? Or was it just an after hours activity? More de-briefing than briefing?

Bob.

[Capt Fudg Packer]

Hellooooooooooo to you Master Bob Hawke!

I had to let my alter-ego answer this one for me. If you are as handsome as the grey haired former prime-minister, after whom you have taken your pseudonym, then you are very welcome to be de-briefed by me and the girls in the nissen hut's anytime you like.

Must dash, the brylcreem girls have just been applying their lippy and waxing their handlebars and let me tell you they look ravishing!

Love and kisses,

Capt Fudg Packer

[VR-HFX]

N1

No translation required. Not on twin tractors so not sure but seems you are more than likely correct.

CTP has probably gone to the sim to work on briefing the brief on ops in strong and gusty winds and subsequent lift loss incurred by flight control inputs.

Sure he will be back with his findings once the school lunch break is over.:}

[Capt Toss Parker]

Gents good afternoon all,

Mr Hawke considering that I used to fly you everywhere at your request, I assumed that you still knew the code of silence that we upheld in the air force.

"What happens in the back of a Caribou stays in the back of the Caribou!"

But if you really must know there was the odd tail scrape in the air force, not as frequent as the ones from Soi Cowboy if you know what I mean.

I've written to Boeing, NASA and the fleet office and as far as I'm concerned there will be no G.A. pilots doing take offs in windy conditions above 10kts.

The captains will be expected to brief the junior crew on the techniques they will use for departure under these conditions. It will be like a continuation of training for the lesser qualified in our ranks, facilitated by all captains paired with a special brief.

I will be filming a web based tutorial "starring me", where I will discuss a few of the things that catch you young fellas out in gusty conditions. Log in & learn from me! Knowledge like this only comes along once in a life time.

Did you know that I almost became a race car driver instead of a pilot? Let me tell you a bit more about that ......

[bloggs2]

I will be filming a web based tutorial "staring me", where I will discuss a few of the things that catch you young fellas out in gusty conditions.

Can't wait to see it..Capt Toss doing his Mr Bean impersonation as the Junior Officer gracefully rotates away under his leaders all knowing, all piercing gaze...or is he asleep and he forgot to go to the bunk? Hard to tell with some of these crusty old RAAF ex-caribou eccentrics. Deaf as a post too. Ahh well only 14 hours to go, wonder if he'll blink? Hope he doesn't come out of the coma and try to tell me that racing car driver story. Now where's the coffee and the paper.

Main Entry: 1stare
Pronunciation: \ˈster\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): stared; star·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English starian; akin to Old High German starēn to stare, Greek stereos solid, Lithuanian starinti to stiffen
Date: before 12th century
intransitive verb
1 : to look fixedly often with wide-open eyes
2 : to show oneself conspicuously <the error stared from the page>
3 of hair : to stand on end : bristle; also : to appear rough and lusterless
transitive verb
1 : to have an effect on by staring
2 : to look at with a searching or earnest gaze

— star·er noun

— stare one in the face : to be undeniably and forcefully evident or apparent

[mephisto88]

Keep 'em coming boys, I love a good laugh, takes my mind of a certain 10% thats gone MIA, or more likely into some directors back pocket so he can buy more leather undies.
Love your work Toss - you are for real, right?:}

[Capt Toss Parker]

Good morning guys,

Just because I'm the best pilot, aviator, navigator, aircraft engineer, load master, guitarist, race car driver, ladies man, Porsche expert, car expert, life expert, personal spiritual adviser to Jesus, economist, financial adviser, squash player, Japanese food expert, notam reader, weather interpreter, ISM winner, Soi cowboy VIP and internationally acclaimed hamster breeder .... don't always expect me to be the best speller. :ugh:

I like to post on here after I've had a few Shirley Temples down at the bar. So absorb the message as best you can until I have a moment of clarity. The bible was re-written a few times and so will the best aviation advice in the world, but in the end you will find true aviation nirvana when the advice of uncle Tossco strikes you at the core! :ok:

[Neptunus Rex]

Now, come on Tosser, me old mucker, you seem to have a down on ex-GA pilots. Why is that?
Those of us who flew 'aggressively armed' aircraft for Ronny Raaf, had a very affectionate name for you Caribou Jocks.
"GA on Steroids."
But surely you knew that.

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/muscles.gif

[bellcrank88]

This is the best stuff ever on the stinky harbour forum. Keep it up!!!

[Capt Toss Parker]

Getting lumped with the Caribou is like walking into a bar with all your mates and you end up with the voluptuous one in the corner :{ You'll put up with it but not proud of it.

When you see your pals having their helmets polished & strapping into to fast jets it's a sore reminder that you're the loser of the bunch. The caribou just flew the fan mail that the jet jocks got from their female groupies .... Let me tell you that's worse than flying rubber "DS" out of Hong Kong!

To make up for my own downfalls NeptunesRex I need to dish out on the "Real GA" guys to set the pre departure mood. I like to let the lads know that everything they have every learnt, experienced, read, trained or simulated for before this flight with me should be erased from their memories it's all wrong ...... aviation nirvana only comes to those guided by the self appointed & self acclaimed guru ME.

Did you know that everyone calls me FIGJAM because I'm sticky & tasty? .... Let me tell you about that young fella .....

[pasa001]

Capt Tosser,

You are my hero!!!:ok:

[olster]

Captain Toss you are indeed one funny dude -a credit to your nation and air force.However,just to steer back on track,ie the alleged tailstrike ex HKG,my take on an A340 rear end encounter with the tarmac would lead the checklist to suggest land at the nearest suitable.I would repectfully suggest that is not LHR.Keep up the good work TP.

atb

[Virtual Reality]

Agreed, if only the PIC realised that he just had one.

Otherwise, continue as planned.

VR

[N1 Vibes]

olster/VR,

either CX is turning into BA (3 engine ferry after eng failure on TO from LA to LHR), or we are returning to 'bad old days' of 2004/2005. When certain journalistic types were listening to our maintenance-control frequency in HK and snapping lots of nice pictures of our a/c with engine spewing smoke. At that time the managerial directive was to "land it somewhere else, not in view of the press"....

You gotta love an uptight, conservative, management; that wants to keep things away from the press, oh and the public! :}

Safe Flying!

N1 Vibes

[747-8]

What's a 3 engine engine ferry on a 747? They can and do fly on 3 as far as the fuel allows. It was only a fuel balancing cock up that put them into MAN instead of LHR so your point was?

[N1 Vibes]

747-8

My point, if you had read-on a little, is that BA and CX seem to have the same practice of high-tailing an a/c away from the scene of something embarassing. In the case of the BA 744 out of LA, they lit up the sky with their spectacular engine failure, granted the residents of LA might have thought it was Bruce Willis' latest Die Hard movie and ignored it(!).

CX have in the bad old days of 2004/2005 operated under the same M.O., where they might have normally done an IFR after an engine failure on TO ex-HKG (their home base) or indeed after an ass-dragging, instead they trucked the a/c on to an OUTPORT destination, to rectify the 'embarrasing' issue.

Is this getting any clearer?? BA returned to their home-base, slightly understandable, CX flew their a/c AWAY from the home-base out of fear-of-embarassment - WTF!

Regads,

N1 Vibes

[N1 Vibes]

Let me make it even simpler:

- You just took off ex-HKG

- You suspect you just a) had a tail scrape or b) you had an engine failure

- You contact the IOC and they suggest that a) pressurization is OK etc or b) that you are in a 4 engine a/c and you can 3 engine ferry - and it's OK to truck on to your destination...

Do you think to yourself - I feel that the right decision was made using sound reasoning? Or do you think why am I flying-on just to 'save-face'?

Regards,

N1 Vibes

[404 Titan]

N1 Vibes

I seem to recall a few years ago now when RW scraped an A340 tail out of Auckland and he decided to continue on to HK. I don’t think that was face saving do you?

[747-8]

Sorry but I still don't understand your term "3 engine ferry" If a 4 engine A/C has a single engine failure then the decsion to continue or return is entirely commercial and has nothing to do with airmanship (assuming it is only the engine failure and not any other factor) So again I ask what do you mean by 3 eng FERRY?

[N1 Vibes]

404 Titan,

that A340 ass-dragging was indeed a 'few years ago', which makes it 2007 when CX did not have a policy of hiding things from the press.....but in 2004/2005 they did.

747-8,

of course to be accurate the BA flight was full of pax, an IFSD was performed and the a/c continued towards Blighty - not a ferry flight. The suggestion has never been one of poor, or ill-considered, airmanship.

The suggestion is that an airline which formulates a policy - for the particular reason of keeping things hidden from the local press - is not the best policy in this business.

When an a/c has experienced a tail-strike or an engine failure, on TO, at your home base, why fly it on to an outstation where you have considerably less support.

There are so many other threads here whinging about CX wasting money and not getting things like a 13th month. How much more do you think it costs to do an engine change in Jakarta instead of doing it in HKG?

- Additional a/c downtime to fly-in the engine change equipment and an engineering team
- Additional a/c downtime while spare engine is prepared/transported/clearing customs
- 744F diversion, or a specific flight, with spare eng onboard
- HOTAC costs to put an engineering team on-site
- Knock on effect of having an engineering team at outstation - overtime costs at their own base, roster instability etc
- Arranging alternate flights for the returning pax

The average time taken to get an outstation engine change performed is about 3 days (believe me I've done them)

OR

You could have returned to HKG, moved affected pax to another a/c, changed the engine in 12 hrs......

The A340 tailscrape in LHR put the plane out for 6 days.

Do you catch my drift?

Regards,

N1 Vibes

[geh065]

How do you return to Hong Kong for a tailscrape when you do not know you have had one?

[N1 Vibes]

geh065

the cabin crew sat down the back noted a grinding noise on take-off, but only reported it at the end of the flight. Amazing what you can remember after 13hrs of serving/sleeping/serving/serving/sleeping. Yet apparently it wasn't significant enough for them to mention at the time that they heard it.....

Hope this explains the quality of the staff you have behind you on some flights. And before I get leapt upon here - I'm sure you would want the CC to at least mention something, when they hear the back end of the a/c getting a 10 grit runway buffing!

Safe Flying,

N1 Vibes

[Lemon Drop]

N1,

Put down the shovel..

[fire wall]

N1 vibes, I concur.
Recently did a joint crm/tem refresher with cc.
Frightening.

[Captain TOGA]

This thread is useless without the names of the flightcrew.

[geh065]

N1,

I agree it is quite scary how they did not say anything! Still, can't blame the cockpit crew for continuing the flight when they did not even know there was a problem.

[Tinwacker]

747-8:

What's a 3 engine ferry on a 747?

After the station engineering department confirms that a single engine has failed.
Would then require changing but resources are not available at the subject station or logistics warrant the aircraft to fly as a '3 engined ferry'.

The station engineers then have a procedure in conjuction with data analysis from maintenance control to carry out detailed inspections to the remaining three engines, wheel and braking systems and to closely review all remaining ADD's.
To lock the inop engine and do any other blanking and specific checks as required.
The flight crew maybe required to do simulator training prior to the three engine take-off.
The aircraft would then depart with no passengers onboard to destination as a 3 engined ferry flight.

TW

[mephisto88]

This thread is useless without the names of the flightcrewWhy does putting their names in the public domain serve any purpose?
If you work for cx, should you so wish to satisfy some desire to ascertain who the crew are, there is a way for you to find out as posted on page 1 of this thread by another poster.

It still doesn't answer the glaring lack of information from the crew at the back of the aircraft if they did notice something out of the ordinary. N1 Vibes - couldn't agree more.
Nor does it condone the questionable advice, in the old AKL case, of continuing to HKG.
We should remember that as useful as the resources in IOC and ENG can be, they only provide information and can suggest courses of action, but the Captain carries the can which is why he makes the decision.

In this case, there is little for the Captain to answer as far as the aircraft continuing to London goes. In the AKL case, Capt No Newspapers got off very lightly for making a bad decision swayed by poor advice from HKG.

[Neptunus Rex]

The cabin crew at the back end are the most junior. It is possible that one of them reported the graunching noise to someone higher up the food chain, only to be squashed for her lack of experience. The 'Cantonese Mafia' in CX can be very snotty. Years ago, when CX boasted ' cabin crew from ten Asian lands,' some of the best Chief Pursers were from India, Japan, Malaysia and Singapore. Their English was impeccable and they actually socialised with pilots and flight engineers. A far cry from the 'Gay Bar' of today.


http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/faceballoons.gif

[747-8]

Thanks Tinwacker that's my definition too. I was merely disagreeing with N1 calling the BA LAX-MAN flight a 3 engine ferry which it wasn't.

[Tinwacker]

747-8:

Cheers.
I would also agree that example was a 3 engine commercial flight decision.

TW