Flight training with no licence

[24Carrot]

Musing on the separate thread re a Swedish "pilot" with no licence, who apparently taught something also.

What is the status of say, a PPL who passed a bona fide skill test, and who logged the requisite training hours at a bona fide FTO/RTO, if it is discovered later that an unfortunate amount of the training hours were delivered by a non bona fide FI?

I hasten to add, I do not believe this applies to me!

[BillieBob]

In a previous similar case, some years ago, the CAA removed the licence of both the unfortunate PPL and the unrated 'instructor' as well as suspending the approval of the FTO. These days I expect the whole thing would be swept under the carpet and ignored.

[24Carrot]

the CAA removed the licence of ... the unfortunate PPLOuch! That was some collateral damage...

[athonite]

As part of pre flight preparation, refer to your checklist, the student pilot should ensure they have the correct documentation for flight, this includes that the aircraft commander (his/her instructor) has a valid medical, licence, and ratings. It is not unreasonable for the student to request this, as it's on the checklist and the instructor should not be offended.

Having said this I do not recal any student or exam candidate to have been brave enough to ask me, to see my licence, ratings, authorisations or medical. I have, however covered this in exam debriefings, under pre flight preperation.

[W2k]

As part of pre flight preparation, refer to your checklist, the student pilot should ensure they have the correct documentation for flight, this includes that the aircraft commander (his/her instructor) has a valid medical, licence, and ratings. It is not unreasonable for the student to request this, as it's on the checklist and the instructor should not be offended.

Having said this I do not recal any student or exam candidate to have been brave enough to ask me, to see my licence, ratings, authorisations or medical. I have, however covered this in exam debriefings, under pre flight preperation.
I don't disagree with any of the above, but I'd like to point out that the chances of a PPL student recognizing a fake license as such are slim to none. Calling up the appropriate authorities to verify that all documentation is in fact genuine seems unrealistic to expect, and some instructors would probably be offended by it.

[Whopity]

Who taught the Wright Brothers?

There was a case a few years ago of a man who bought an aeroplane and met a man in a pub who said he would teach him to fly it. The man in the pub had almost completed a PPL course but had never obtained a licence.

The CAA looked at charging the "instructor" with Endangerment but didn't, because it was felt he had received sufficient training to get off such a charge. Needless to say the student didn't get a licence either.

If a student has passed a bona fide skill test then what is the issue? Surely that is what Competency based training is all about!

[2close]

Funnily enough, in almost 20 years of flying I have only ever been asked for my licence and medical (prior to flight) in Greece and they did on virtually every single occasion, even at my home base.

A number of UK FTO / RTFs have asked for the documentation AT THE END of a training course but never prior to starting.

The only document I have ever been asked to produce on a regular basis is my Log Book.

[what next]

Hello!

...but I'd like to point out that the chances of a PPL student recognizing a fake license as such are slim to none.

Anyway, within an FTO it is one of the duties of the head of training to maintain current records of his instructors and verify their validity. A customer/student must not have to worry about these things. Otherwise: where would that stop? Does the student have to make sure that the FTO has a valid training license?

Regards, max

[athonite]

WK2 has a point, a licence is easy to forge, a few years ago a Police Air Support Unit in the UK appointed a helicopter pilot, who flew on line with a forged licence. My understanding is that they dropped charges, to avoid further embarresment.

What we dont want is holgrams, photos, biometrics, because licence renewals are expensive enough.

The Driving Vehicle Licencing Agency (DVLA), has a database to check the taxation status of a vehicle, all you need is the registration and vehicle make. Perhaps a similar system for pilots would work, by entering surname and licence number. You can check you doctor in the UK through the BMA, in the same way