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rokami93
3rd Mar 2010, 16:48
My DA40 took me and my dog from Spain to Thailand in October 09 where I have stayed now for a couple of month. I am preparing the flight back and just realized I haven't posted the trip details here and some of them might be of interest to you guys who fly these routes in small aircraft:

1st leg: LEMU - EDWC (Muchamiel to Damme)

http://www.405fp.com/THAITRIP/lemuspaintoedwcgermany_small.jpg http://www.405fp.com/THAITRIP/dammeedwc_small.jpg http://www.405fp.com/THAITRIP/ferrytanks_small.jpg

My home base is Muchamiel, LEMU, next to Alicante in Spain. I had my 2 x 120 l ferry tanks half way installed still lacking of pumps, but hoped that gravity fed I would make it a bit further than usual. Basically an unenventful flight, except that I had to stop in Trier to fill up and check the plumbing because the gas-fumes were quite distracting.

Walked the dog a bit and hopped back into the plane for the last smaller leg up to EDWC, Damme where the DA40 had to get a 1000-hr-revision. Also, I have had my upholstery spiffed up to new leather seats, extended baggage compartment installed plus a wx500 and some smaller things.

All in all I stayed nearly 2 weeks in Damme to get my plane ready. Also, my own intents on the ferry-tank system were not good enough and I had to get some pros to install a pressurization of the tanks, some stronger fuel pumps, getting it all legalized, etc....

Meanwhile I stayed in a rented log cabin right next to the airfield. My dog, who flew with me, liked the rural settings and the friendly mechanics in the shop who didn't seem to care about my strange presence....

Also, Paul, my copilot came to see me a few days before our departue and give a hand to get the plane ready and to discuss some more details of our trip.

2nd leg: EDWC - LOAN - LTAC (Damme to Ankara)
http://www.405fp.com/THAITRIP/loanwienerneustadt_small.jpg
Actually we wanted to fly from Damme to Wiener Neustadt on Wednesday afternoon, but the plane wasn't ready in time and we decided to fly a bit more next morning when the friendly couple who runs the tower and administration of EDWC got up really early to treat us for a coffee and to turn on the runway lights.

We took off again a bit late, but had fairly good weather, only 30 minutes of the entire leg in IMC. In Wiener Neustadt LOAN we filled up the first time completely and given the fact that my DA40F has a carbureted engine and a MoGas-STC we filled it up with 270 l of Mogas now being completely loaded. We realized it was about to tip to the tail and we had to move some heavy luggage to the front seats while we weren t sitting there ourselves.

The gentleman who filled up the plane asked 2 or 3 times to confirm if we really wanted MoGas and our entire setup must have looked a bit strange to him. We took a coffee, I walked my dog and the entire stop didn't take an hour until we were airborne again, IFR to LTAC, Ankara.

We burnt off some of the fuel in the wing tanks and started refilling them with the fuel from the ferry tanks. It worked just perfect and we knew we did have the range now to fly to Ankara non-stop. About half of the trip was in complete IMC and we kept picking up a bit of ice which slowed us down quite a bit, not to mention the gross overweight. So we were cruising with 110 kts our way down to Ankara where we were surprised by a bit of thunderstorm in the vicinity and funnily my new stormscope didn't show them as we expected.

But well, we were visual to the ground. The turbulence was hard and short, but we could see the cells and finally reached the airport after being vectored on the ILS. We were received by the handling agent, received fuel immediately and within 30 minutes we were out of the airport in our taxi to the hotel.

First surprise: no dogs allowed in that hotel. I had in mind that we advised that I was travelling with a dog, but it seems that this part of the communication was lost and after some discussions with the front desk we had to find a new hotel. The handling agent made a few more phone calls and an hour later we were on our way to a hotel on the other side of the city...

After a hard day with 1100 nms, IMC and thunderstorms, we really hoped to get some better rest. The hotel was expensive and crappy, but at least they admitted dogs...

3rd leg: LTAC - OKBK (Ankara to Kuwait City)
http://www.405fp.com/THAITRIP/okbkkuwaitcity_small.jpg
We left early at 6 o' clock the hotel, got to the airport in time and surprise, surprise: our overflight handling agent (ATSD Dortmund) hasn't received the overflight clearance for Iraq. They said they would have it ready in 20 minutes, so we didn't really bother. But after an hour they still didn't have it and we were getting unpatient, as todays trip implied 1100 nms flying over Iraq to Kuwait which isn't an easy job....

Many, many calls and 3 hours later we had the overflight codes and rushed into the plane, received our IFR clearances and took off. The weather was exceptionally good and our best laughs on our route to Iraq were the waypoints "batman", "pouszy" or so.....

Radio coverage started to get bad and we entered Iraqi airspace trying to establish communications with Mosul, but it took about 30 minutes until we were in contact. They gave us clearance to follow our route as filed until a male military supervisor told us to return and fly a hold, he needed our clearance code. Paul got a bit nervous, took the controls and made an immediate 180 deg turn while I was nervously fiddling around with my tons of papers searching for the code. No joy, I didn't find it, Paul got quite nervous and we were looking forward to a night in military custody in Mosul until the American controller came back and said "Well, we found your clearnance, ahum, proceed as filed."

We were happy and enjoyed since then the weird landscapes of Iraq and while the night was breaking in we watched the burning torches of oil fields, listened to the weird radio communications over Iraq (unidentified object operating at 12000 ft at your 1-o-clock position... a drone?). The controllers were mostly Americans and you would notice they were a bit tense. Don't know why, maybe missing home and having a hard job to do.

We landed late in Kuwait and were received by the handling agent. At customs they first looked strangely at the dog, but as I had all paperwork and permissions ready before, they finally accepted the fact that there are pilots in this world travelling with a dog.

On my list of pet-friendly hotels in Kuwait it turned out they were not as pet-friendly as described and didn't want to receive us. So again to the worst and most expensive of the bad and ugly hotels which I haven't had to be lodged in since the days I ended my studies, but well... .it's all part of the adventure. The hotel didn't have a kitchen, but they were so kind to order some stuff from an Arab fast food chain. The food was exceptionally good and we were so tired we slept immediately until next morning where I had to get up again earlier to walk the dog

4th leg: OKBD - VAAH (Kuwait City to Ahmedabad)

Today we wanted to fly 1400 nms to Ahmedabad, India and I wanted to make sure the dog would have had a nice walk, but in the stony desert of an arab city, it is just not fun for a dog to walk. This was the first time I wondered if I did my dog a favour to have bought a plane in order to avoid putting him in a box and stuffing him into an airliner.

Too late for regrets and after a thin breakfast with crappy industrial bread and just a bit of butter we went back to the airport. Also, I filled a 30 l jerry can at a gas station and walked with my jerry can, dog and Paul into the GA terminal of the airport.

Immediately I drew attention to some of the guards who wanted to stop me from entering the terminal with the dog. But my friendly explanation: "He is like you: police!" must have made him wonder and he finally let us pass (he wasn't worried about 30l of autofuel in a jerrycan in his terminal, though, hehe).

The handling agent presented its 650 Dollar invoice at the plane, I paid and was then informed that also the 200l-barrel of AvGas with a price of over 1100 USD had to be paid in cash and in Kuwaiti Dinars, which I didn't have. So back to the terminal, getting some cash out of the ATM and back to the plane. After counting the money they finally started fuelling. At this price the huge firetruck watching our mad-maxish behaviour must have been included. Maybe I now own it, and just didn't realize what they have charged me 1100 Dollars for.

Finally we were allowed to hop into our plane, but had to ask ground control for permission to push back the plane. Once we have received clearance to push it back, asked permission to start the engine and so on...

When taxing, the controller asked "Please confirm destination: Ahmedabad."
- "affirmative."
- "Confirm type of aircraft"
- "DA40"
- "Well, I was flying a DA40 back in Jordan and I can't imagine it could have this kind of range."

After a bit of friendly chatter he cleared us for take-off and with 30 degrees Celsius and overweight we took off after maybe 1000 metres runway used and climbed slowly with 300-500 ft towards Iran.

The Kuwaiti departure controller already advised that at the first waypoint in Iran we must be on FL150, which was quite hard to reach with the excessive weight. So when we were switched over to the first Iranian controller, he asked us to climb to FL150. Paul bravely lied "unable". Iranian controller: "report back to Kuwait!" Ooooops, we didn't want that either, so Paul lied again: "O.K., Novermber-four-zero-five-foxtrott-papa FL120 climbing 150." We really did our best to climb up to 150 and finally reached, late. But well, they couldn't send us back anymore.

So we stayed for hours and hours on FL150 overflying Iran with its vast sceneries, vulcanoes, craters and never ending deserts. I didn't know that this kind of beauty existed and reminded me much of Utah and Monument Valley which I have crossed half a year before.

Weather was completely visual at all times. We were handed over from one controller to another, flew off one waypoint after the other and quite often needed relays from airliners to contact our control stations. (Thanks to you guys from Emirates and all the others who patiently relayed my crappy communications!)

The only remarkable relay was "Stay tactical". Still can't figure out what they thought what or who we were with our N-registered DA40....

When reaching Ahmedabad it was dark and only fireworks on the ground described our happiness to reach the airport. On the approach they still shot fireworks, and I believe they were aiming at us for the fun of it, but I could sware we have had rockets passing my left wing only a few feet. We were excited to land and I didn't even care anymore that the taxi instructions were worse than ever and we finally ended up parking the plane in some corner of the field where I hoped not to disturb.

A bunch of airport officals came in their stained uniforms and sloppy clothes. Some of them bombarding Paul in a threatening manner: "Why did you land here? Do you have a flight plan? Where is your GD?" I just got Felpudo, my doggy out of the plane and made sure to walk him along the field a bit so he could take care of his necessities, but very much to my surprise, he didn't like the field....

Well, we got our stuff out of the plane and were driven on a baggage cart together with bunch of "officials" to the terminal. What followed was a complete nightmare. NIGHTMARE. NIGHTMARE. I reject to bore you with the details, but having opting for self-handling saved us a lot of money, I paid less than 250 USD for all bribes, taxes and stamps, but we have had a night without sleep, virtually NO sleep and non-stop running from one office to another in the buildings which were even dirtier than a burmese train-stations toilet I have seen in my old backpacking days.

Positive: 200 l of AvGas were "only" 470 USD and were kindly pumped into our tanks.

5th leg: VAAH - VECC (Ahmedabad - Kolkata)
http://www.405fp.com/THAITRIP/ahmedabadindia_small.jpg

Uneventful take-off in Ahmedabad, a boring flight, all visual and we were so tired that Paul flew while I slept and vice versa. Again, we reached Kolkata late and hoped to get some better treatment, but no... it came worse. AVOID. DO NOT TRY THIS. IT WAS A MISTAKE.

Will spare out the details, but we were administratively tortured, although we did get some sleep in a hotel that night, which was a big plus. Again, the hotel was complete crap, noisy and cockroaches were bigger than my dog, but well...

6th leg: VAAH - VTCC (Kolkata to Chiangmai)

Next morning our friendly guys from ATSD handling still didn't have the clearance for Thailand. It took them all day, YES ALL DAY, and we took off at 17.00 hrs local. When it dawned we saw some thunderstorms on the horizont and on the stormscope. It looked like they were slightly south of our route. Whenever we came near, they disappeared and we had the darkest night I have ever seen, so we were anciously scanning the sky for clouds as we didn't know how much activity they might have in for us. But we managed to stay clear of clouds until we were 100 nms from our destination Chiangmai. Right over Chiangmai there seemed to be a lot of activity and we were already checking our options to reach an alternate airport.

At 30 nms outbound of Chiangmai we could see the city lights and the clouds a few miles away from the airport. We opted for a visual approach, landed safely and luckily at 23:45 in Chiangmai, Thailand, 15 minutes before closure of the airport. Friendly reception by a security guard who took us on the pickup truck to immigration, where my dog puked in front of the immigration officer. I apologized, cleaned the puke with my hands and ran with the security guard to the bathroom where I cleaned myself. Funnily, the guard excused himself all the time. Thais are just sooo friendly.

Customs was closed already and the guard let us slip through a door to the parking. All taxis were gone, but no problem: the guard organized a friend's car and took us to our hotel and insisted to charge only what a normal taxi would have charged us, too. No tips, nothing else accepted. He would hardly accept my "thank-yous". Yes, that's why I am here and what made the trip worth: the friendliness of the Thai people.

http://www.405fp.com/THAITRIP/felpudo2_small.jpg

If you guys want to see the pictures, please checkout THAITRIP (http://www.405fp.com/THAITRIP)

http://www.405fp.com/THAITRIP/trackedroute.jpg

Fujiflyer
3rd Mar 2010, 18:16
Absolutely amazing report, thanks for sharing it. I'll read it in more detail later, I love these sort of things! (having done a few "small" adventures, myself):ok:

VOD80
3rd Mar 2010, 19:47
Really is an amazing report!

Thanks for posting it. Looks like you need to save up a bit more money though - that little DA40 looks lost amongst those bizjets! ;)

Look forward to reading about the return.

Cheers

CartoonPilot
3rd Mar 2010, 22:27
Fantastic, thanks for posting.

Looking forward to the return journey report.

rokami93
4th Mar 2010, 00:05
Thanks for all of your kind remarks!

Here are some more stats on the fuel consumption and prices. Some of the conversions to EUR have taken place when the USD was at 1.50, nevertheless going through the table I realized that Ankara was nearly as expensive as Kuwait. Also ground handling was quite pricy in Ankara.

http://www.405fp.com/THAITRIP/tripstats.jpg

Our overflight handling agent has charged around 2200 EUR for his services (which caused 11 hours of delays) and third party charges:}. Especially flying over Iran was expensive. Nobody told me before they'd charge 0.50 EUR per mile for navigation, but I guess that's just one of those things you learn when doing these kinds of travels.

Our trip back will be slightly different. I will avoid landing in India at all costs, also will leave out Iran:

VTCC Chiangmai - VGEG Chittagong - OPKC Karachi - OTBD Doha - HELX Luxor - Crete LGIR - LEMU Alicante

I would like to do some of the handling myself, wherever it won't take tooo long. Also, I urgently need to find hotels in each destination where they will accept us and Felpudo, my furry steward.

If any of you guys has any information on the above listed airports and countries, please let me know! Especially hotels which accept pets are needed and handling agents which could organize me MoGas...

Yeah, I know, I am asking quite a lot, but if you just know of a friendly and honest ground handler or an apartment I could rent for a night in any of these destinations, let me know....

Edit: alternatively, I would like to fly over Libya, stopping in Tunez, to Alicante. If anybody knows if that is do-able, please post your experience. It would avoid a lot of flying over water, some knots of head wind and save some miles and less icy conditions...

IO540
4th Mar 2010, 06:24
That's an amazing trip.

You should write up the details on a website and then others can learn from it. I think everybody flying to the 3rd world rediscovers a lot of tricks.

Did you file VFR or IFR?

I like the pilot uniforms... reportedly necessary outside Europe :ok:

I looked at Libya (from Crete) in 2008 but the permission involved paying somebody to be your "sponsor". However I am sure an overflight agent can sort this out. I read a trip writeup somewhere only the other day, Tripoli, and they found avgas there too which suprised me because when I looked there was none available.

Luxor should be spectacular. Been there twice (not GA) and the stuff is stunning (Karnak and Hatchepsut), world class. Get a long lens and get some pics. Otherwise it's an empty desert.

englishal
4th Mar 2010, 07:54
Amazing trip ! I'd love to do the same trip in a DA42.....before I do that I am co-driving a UK to Thailand trip in a classic Porsche in the Autumn, which should be fun. It is a charity thing.

One of my friends is taking a DA40 from California to Australia in March - first leg 2000nm across water - 17hrs !

oversteer
4th Mar 2010, 08:57
Amazing write up and great pictures too!

I wondered how the dog would get on in a noisy cabin but I can see he is sound asleep in the photo.. obviously a seasoned traveller. :ok:

coldair
4th Mar 2010, 09:35
Many thanks for posting your interesting story.

As others have said, I look foreward to reading about your return trip :)

rokami93
4th Mar 2010, 10:22
@IO540
I wrote these details here on pprune because I hoped to share my experiences with more people than just on my website 405fp.com/THAITRIP where I actually wrote a bit less but have the webspace to put more pictures.

Yes, pilot uniforms ARE necessary. I thought it was maybe an exaggeration, but didn't want to ignore advice and we would have run into a lot more problems without our crew-shirts. Especially when travelling with a dog you want to look as official as you can. Remember that the security guys at the entrance don't know you are there with a tiny DA40, they just see your shirt and tie and I could as well be the pilot of a 737 (well, I really couldn't as my hair is a bit too long, too, LOL)

The agent I picked for the trip back wasn't too fond of my idea to cross Libya. I hoped to get some advice here and could have discussed some details. But if it turns out that it is not advisable, I will accept that, too.

In Luxor I have already found a flat and I hope to stay for at least two days to do some sightseeing and talk to the local authorities to let me get onto the airfield with MoGas from a gasstation.

@Englishal
It is definitely better to go in a DA42, not only that you will have an autopilot, but jetfuel is soooo much cheaper and more available that this is also the reason why I have been thinking about moving up. I do recommend you to extend your range with ferry tanks, because it gives you a lot more flexibility, for example to simply cross India.... (I apologize if I come across like I didn't like India or its people, but from a small airplane pilot's view, India wasn't the most pleasant place to be)

Well, a classic Porsche ain't bad either. I will probably go back to Thailand also in autumn, but it is undecided if I will still go in a DA40 or if I manage to move up or if I simply get into an airliner again, leaving my plane hangared...

If your friend takes the DA40 over from Santa Barbara to Hawaii, he will be Nr 2 to do this leg. Except for the amounts of water underneath and loads of fuel in the back, it is definitely do-able, especially with an autopilot. My longest leg on the trip was of 1400 nms, which put me in the "iron butt club", leading in the "non-AP" category, LOL :E

@oversteer
Felpudo has so-called "mutt-muffs" to protect his ears, but he usually takes them off after a while. Nevertheless, it takes him very long to come when I call him, so I guess he must have hearing-problem anyhow :}

IO540
4th Mar 2010, 10:58
Overflying Libya should not be a problem....

There is plenty of accomodation in Luxor, much cheaper on the West Bank. Not 5-star but it doesn't sound like you are after 5-star ;) I know of a nice place (http://www.alsalamcamp.com/) with little huts near the river; my girlfriend and I even did their website and host it :) Might have to cut your hair short though; the locals are not too picky and women get a marriage proposal every 10m (no kidding) :) :)

englishal
4th Mar 2010, 12:01
If anyone wants to repeat a trip like this, count me in ;) I guess it is easier than doing the North Atlantic.....

Pace
4th Mar 2010, 12:45
Rocami93

Thank you for sharing your trip with us. I flew from New Delhi to the UK albeit in a beat up ex Indian Citation which threw more problems at you than the best simulators :) A bit quicker than your aircraft but am sure yours was just as much fun?

For technical reasons I was limited to 900-1000nm legs and took off out of New Delhi at night in a monsoon.

Very pretty with the clouds lighting
up like lightbulbs to show the way.

I landed in Pakistan again at night and was escorted to the loo by 3 armed guards who wouldnt leave your side.

My route to Bahrain from Pakistan went through Iranian airspace. Technical problems and headwinds meant a diversion into Dubai landing there at 0230 in the morning.

I then went across Saudi Arabia needing a landing fuel stop mid way enroute to Alexandria in Egypt.

This landing clearance was hard to get. Overfly no probs but landing a different matter.

"What about I file for Alexandria direct then divert to land in Saudi" ?
"You will be arrested" was the reply so I sat it out until cleared to land at a military base in the desert.

That itself was interesting as the weather was given as 2000 metres in dust with a strong crosswind. Landing the palm trees bent over double and vis dropped in seconds to 100 metres in a sandstorm.

It was quite eerie seeing a white clad figure draped in white robes appearing out of the stinging sand :)

From there to Alexandria then Crete then Malta, Marseilles and UK.
We have brought this up in the forum before but in all those regions you have to wear a uniform. The more Gold bars and regalia the better no matter what you are riding. Oh and pockets of dollars.

Pace

IO540
4th Mar 2010, 13:11
"What about I file for Alexandria direct then divert to land in Saudi" ?

And there was me thinking I invented that trick :) :) It worked a treat getting out of a certain southern european country which wanted to rip me off a bundle because I was going to a non-EU destination... so I filed for the country next door to the destination (which was EU) and I filed the route to overfly the place I wanted to go to, and diverted. I am sure this must be a common procedure. But I wouldn't divert to an airport which needs Customs PPR/PNR (unless I had cleared that up with them) especially if it is in Italy.

Katamarino
4th Mar 2010, 15:27
Thanks for sharing your experiences! On a trip I am planning, we expect to stop in India just once. Sounds like that will be more than enough!

rokami93
4th Mar 2010, 23:52
@Katamarino
Generally Nagpur in the middle of India is said to be a bit easier, but not a big change, either. Handling will be around 300 $ if you get a good deal.

@Pace
It seems you had quite an interesting trip there. Flying an Indian citation sparks my imagination on what kind of well-maintained piece of aircraft you had to fly there.

I liked your diversion trick. Unfortunately, it seems it is well known also with some customs officers whose first question before they make any further checks is "Did you divert?" Or did you plan to divert even to a non-customs airport?

I wonder what would happen if you'd do that in Europe: filing a route to a EU customs airport and then inform the controller that you prefer to divert to an airport on the route.....

TWR
5th Mar 2010, 07:07
I couldn't care less...

Pace
5th Mar 2010, 07:20
It seems you had quite an interesting trip there. Flying an Indian citation sparks my imagination on what kind of well-maintained piece of aircraft you had to fly there.

Flying there was scheduled airline as I was employed by a ferry company to bring it back as far as the UK for a prospective buyer.

The aircraft was transferred to the N reg for the trip and subsequently ended up in Florida when the deal failed in the UK.

But it was a non RVSM Bitch and had numerous electrical problems which made for a fun time.

There was some religious holiday an overfly was easy a scheduled landing in Saudi NOT easy.

At times like that your creative mind goes into overdrive to think up a workaround.

A diversion was one thought which I have used in Europe but decided against in that part of the world. Apart from an on board fire or engine failure anything like headwinds and fuel would be regarded with suspicion and they make the rules and interpretate them as they see fit and in their time. A few weeks holiday in Saudi??? :)

Pace

IO540
5th Mar 2010, 07:29
I couldn't care less...Are you an ATCO?

I have been refused a landing clearance in Italy (Padova) due to an alleged lack of Customs PNR (I sent them several faxes the night before...).

I also had a flight plan cancelled (no kidding) in Spain (Zaragoza) due to an alleged lack of PPR, even before I departed to go there (the departure tower, Granada, phoned them right in front of me and cleared it with them).

So you would need a Mayday, in some places, evidently.... but in civilised Europe, no problem.

Lowmick
5th Mar 2010, 10:28
rokami93,
did you have any oxygen onboard? I have some experience in FL150 without problems, but not for "hours and hours" (I didnt have opportunity).

TWR
5th Mar 2010, 10:59
According to ICAO annex 11, ATC is not supposed to refuse a diversion.
The airport authority can refuse you, AND they can ask ATC to relay this info to you, but we cannot refuse you to divert to that place (unless it's military, and even then...).

We are supposed to pass you info on the closure of an aerodrome or other pertinent info, but then it's up to you to decide whether you want to commit a violation of regulations (being; airport refusing you, not ATC).

But then again, I'm not familiar with any Italian AIP or other southern FIRs.
It's possible they filed a difference from ICAO on this.

IO540
5th Mar 2010, 11:09
According to ICAO annex 11, ATC is not supposed to refuse a diversion.
The airport authority can refuse you, AND they can ask ATC to relay this info to you, but we cannot refuse you to divert to that place (unless it's military, and even then...).

We are supposed to pass you info on the closure of an aerodrome or other pertinent info, but then it's up to you to decide whether you want to commit a violation of regulations (being; airport refusing you, not ATC).OK, but there is no practical difference between ATC refusing, and ATC being instructed to refuse (the landing clearance). The ATCO will get the sack if he disobeys the airport manager, obviously. Anywhere south of approximately Crete he might get shot.

I very much doubt if any ATC unit has access to PPR/PNR records (i.e. whether the airport has received the PPR etc) so there must be a system whereby the "downstairs office" (which has a screen showing incoming flights) phones up the tower and tells them to refuse the flight.

But then again, I'm not familiar with any Italian AIP or other southern FIRs.
It's possible they filed a difference from ICAO on this.Yes, they have; it's spelt

I - T - A - L - Y

One of the good things about a TB20 having a 1300nm (dry) range is that one doesn't ever need to land in Italy.

Pace
5th Mar 2010, 11:16
TWR

If its on your flight plan as a diversion and you request a diversion to your diversion as long as the diversion is for genuine reasons I do not think there is much that can be done against it.

If the Airfield is open and declined you resulting in a crash then I would imagine that airport could be sued.

Where we have a problem here is that some pilots use the diversion to get into airports who do not have the landing slot capacity to accept with the excuse of a wishy washy emergency used to overide that declination.

That is fine in Europe where we have rights and a structured law that protects those rights.

I have flown out of Europe in the far East, Arab countries and African countries where that law structure doesnt exist in the same way.

Yes you can try those tricks but you are not sure of the consequences and getting it sorted takes time a lot of time while your banged up.

Its not worth it.

Pace

IO540
5th Mar 2010, 11:36
I guess Rokami has oxygen, but maybe not for the dog :)

Pace
5th Mar 2010, 11:46
Remember the people of the USA are built different to us.

FAA up to 12500 ASL no oxygen needed time unlimited. 12500 to 14000 ASL 30 minutes without oxygen.

Above 14000 ASL Oxygen at all times.

The poor old US passengers dont need to be given oxygen until 15000 ASL or the old dears turn blue.

Pace

rokami93
5th Mar 2010, 23:22
@Lowmick
I have oxygen, of course, sometimes. Also, whenever legally required. :)

But I do well without, just a slight headache due to de-hydration as I don't take a lot of liquids. After half an hour the symptoms get better and you get used to the lack of oxygen.

@IO540
How do you get a 1300 nms range out of a TB20? I looked through all available source, but non of them credited it more than 700 nms.... Do you have aux fuel tanks?

@TWR
Interesting information.

@all
Any pireps on Karachi? I believe to have exhausted the search function, but no GA-related threads on Karachi found...

Pace
6th Mar 2010, 06:01
Rockami

This is the website

Welcome to Jinnah International Karachi (http://www.karachiairport.com.pk/)

What do you want to know? I arrived late at night for fuel only. Had three armed guards with me all the time who were more friendly when we shared some sandwiches which i had on the citation.

Pace

IO540
6th Mar 2010, 06:50
How do you get a 1300 nms range out of a TB20? I looked through all available source, but non of them credited it more than 700 nms.... Do you have aux fuel tanks?

Flying at peak or lean of peak, 1300+ nm to zero fuel. This is at higher altitudes (wide open throttle) FL100-160.

I'd love to have an extra tank :) Another 20 USG and all of Greece is within reach to/from the UK.

However, one cannot do long flights with confidence without an accurate fuel metering system, linked to the GPS. Have you got something like that? (A Shadin or JPI flowmeter, or the same function in the G1000?).

rokami93
6th Mar 2010, 12:08
@Pace
Any recommendable ground handler in Karachi or can it be done easily by oneself? How much is ground handling? (I guess you didn't have to worry about that stuff)

Is a crew visa easily obtained? (That wasn't your problem either if you stayed there only to pickup some fuel)

@IO540
Very nice description of your flying in Europe, IO540! I have heard a lot of positive things about Croatia and will definitely check it out some time once I am back in Europe, maybe even on the return trip.

Of course, the DA40 has a fuel flow meter in the G1000. Don't you dare ask me why I don't have an autopilot then, because I will have to tell you a long story about Diamond Aircraft Industries, their customer relations and an offer of 60.000 €.... :ugh:

Now, an additional 20G really allows different flying. Now I have 2x30G, but it is a bit of an overkill for flying in Europe, also I won't be able to fly on a ferry permit forever.

So I developed 2x10G tanks which can be easily taken out and they fit right behind the front seats in the cavity where my non-existing passengers would put their feet. Hope to be able to get an STC for them:

http://405fp.com/DA40portableferrytank/da40tank7.jpg

IO540
6th Mar 2010, 13:24
That's seriously impressive. Is that a model, or CAD/CGI?

How will you connect into the fuel system?

From what I can gather there are many unofficial ferry tank installations flying around; the trick is how to connect into the existing fuel system, especially if this is to be reasonably covert when the ferry tank is not in place.

In all systems, I think, one is running the engine from the wing other than the wing being refilled from the ferry tank.

rokami93
6th Mar 2010, 14:07
IO540,
the basic design was made in Google Sketchup by myself, no kidding. Especially taking measure in a confined space and re-adjusting the design took a couple of days. But the beadings and the rendering were added in.... uhemm.... frankly I forgot, don't know... I paid a student of engineering design who is pretty good at making kiteboards. So I exported the file in dxf-format and he gave the finishing touch, which makes it a bit more impressive than my basic design :ok: No, it is not a model it is rendered in photo-quality with the material which will be used. The tanks should be ready one of these days. Will need some assistance though with the paperwork and the process to get an STC.

In a Diamond, a T-fitting attached to the fuel-selector valve will do a good job to connect to the manufacturers fuel system and yes: fly from one tank, while refilling the other. You wouldn't imagine how much bubbles these pumps produce. I once realized when using the pump to empty a ferry tank into a jerry can. It looked more like one of the things you use to add bubbles to an aquarium:bored:

Now, you also need to find a way to vent the tanks, or even better: to pressurize them. Venting with the cockpit air is possible, but the fumes might give you a headache and you will probably not even get a ferry permit as the tanks must be leak proof in the event of a ground loop. I have a pitot-like tube under the belly which keeps the tanks nicely pressurized and they work even without the two 28V-pumps which give a fuel-flow of 240l/hr each. The mechanic who installed them wondered if I wanted to give the plane extra-thrust :E

In some planes, there is a header tank and you don't need to fill the wing-tanks, but can go right into the header tank (Zenith 701, PA46 for example).

Btw, in your trip-report to Valencia you wondered about the "mystery airport". The story behind it is a bit like you assumed: a wealthy real estate developer and builder wanted to make an airplane scrapyard and needed a good runway to make bigger birds land there. He went bankrupt before he could finish the project and the local authorities opted to take it over, don't understand why and what their further intention were. At least, this is how they told me the story.

Last summer you still couldn't land there, although, some of the locals with smaller planes have already tried it out to see "how it feels" to land there.

Edit: the tanks can be disconnected with a quick-release fitting which they have on racing cars. This way you don't have to carry wrenches and do funny things to quickly take them out.

172driver
7th Mar 2010, 16:24
What a beautiful story and fantastic trip !! Goes to show that it CAN be done:ok:

Must say, I especially like your taking your dog along. Great really.

As for your return trip: I have been to Chittagong airport once many years ago in the line of my work (not aviation) and, errrr..... not sure if that's an improvement over the airfields in India. Better check it out beforehand, also in relation to your trusted four-legged friend.

Anyway, looking fwd to reading about your return - happy flying :ok:

rokami93
10th Mar 2010, 11:28
172driver,

it seems you are right in your predictions. I am having a really hard time to reserve a room in Chittagong. Most of the hotels wouldn't answer. One answered that they need my phone number in order to call me and then they told me I should send them an email :uhoh:. I just hope I don't have to sleep at the beautiful beaches of Chittagong...

My last hope is the ground handler and will try to talk to them tomorrow.

Karachi is sorted, btw. I have found great place to spend the night and for Luxor we will most probably spend a night in an apartment. We plan to take a day off and I will hopefully get the chance to take a few picture to show that my doggy made it to the pyramids :)

From Luxor it seems we will be able to fly over Libya to Tunesia. At least it looks like my overflight handling agent can get the permissions.

From Tunesia it is a relatively short hop over to Alicante, Spain.

raunaq_panwar
10th Mar 2010, 16:27
hi rokami,
i was so happy after reading your trip to thailand...enjoyed every bit of it..nice work keep it up...and all the best for your return trip...
anyone overflying India do let me know if I can be of any help.
and would like to fly such trips...anybody flying such long haul trips do let me know...thnx...
all the best n enjoy rokami