Crash near Swansea 03/03/10

[READY MESSAGE]

BBC News - Plane crashes close to M4 near Swansea (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8548300.stm)

[Pilot DAR]

Knowing absolutely nothing more about the event, than what the BBC item tells, where is the line between "crash" and "emergency landing"? From my own perspective, if the aircraft came to rest with minor or no damage, after a deliberate effort on the part of the pilot to land it into a suitable area, it really does not qualify as a "crash". Let's extend to our fellow pilots the courtesy of recognizing the apparently favourable outcome of their efforts, by crediting an "emergency landing", not branding as a "crash". Heck, if the media can get the terms right (not so common), I sure hope us pilots can!

I've emergency landed four times, never any damage, always took off from where I landed, later, safely. I have never crashed.

Pilot DAR

[A and C]

Unfortunatly an aircraft upside down in a field is a "crash" to the layman and the press is not inclined to let the truth get in the way of a good story.

[charliegolf]

C172. Forced landing, plane largely intact, one injury- not serious. Cambrian FS a/c from Swansea.

Radio Wales presenter actually commented, "sounds more like an emergency landing than a crash to me". No hysteria at all: good, i thought.

CG

[eharding]

Unfortunatly an aircraft upside down in a field is a "crash" to the layman and the press is not inclined to let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Surely, if the aircraft comes to rest inverted, then I think we can safely say it has crashed - regardless of whether the landing attempt was made in accordance with normal aviation practice or made under duress as a result of mechanical failure or some other factor.....

[VMC-on-top]

Surely, if the aircraft comes to rest inverted, then I think we can safely say it has crashed

I think I'd tend to agree - same as a car upside down in a field couldn't possibly be considered to be an emergency stop! - Its not as if either would be turned upright and sent on its way?

[bad bear]

I have to agree, if its up side down, then that is a crash. I guess the insurance company would agree its a crash too
bb

[Pilot DAR]

Yes, I'll agree, overturned just crosses the "emergency langing"/"crash" line, but not by much...

[airborne_artist]

What about right way up, but in trees?

When is the Dundee golf course "pancake landing" AAIB report due out? Perhaps AAIB will tell us if that was a landing or a crash? :}

[Pilot DAR]

Okay, okay, I'll stick my neck out, and be pedantic, I can do it, I know I can...

In my opinion,

(A) If the pilot selected an off airport landing site, in an urgent need to be on the ground, and that site offered a reasonable expectation of a no damage landing, and no damage occurred during landing - emergency landing, good outcome, not a crash. (the other way of looking at it would be, if the aircraft can be flown out, it did not crash!)

(B) Same site selection, and touched the ground without damage, as intended, but then it was damaged during roll out - crash, but by the thinnest of margins.

(C) Same site selection, but missed (undershot, perhaps) - crash (unless by some miracle, no damage - refer to (E))

(D) Damaging landing on unintended site, or during no intention to land in the first place (CFIT) - crash

(E) Non-damaging landing on unintended site, or during no intention to land in the first place (CFIT) - act of god!

Do I pass the first stage of qualification to write reports for the AAIB now?

Pilot DAR

[Floppy Link]

...only if DAR stands for "Disseminator of Accident Reports"

[BabyBear]

Maybe it would be more accurate to say it crash landed - that is crashed in the process of the pilot intentionally landing.

Incidently the article is headed Emergency Landing

[Mixed Up]

If it was an engine failure then it's a "forced landing" rather than an "emergency landing". Then if damage results it is a "crashed force landing".

[Ryan5252]

If it was an engine failure then it's a "forced landing" rather than an "emergency landing".

When is an 'emergency' landing not forced? :confused:

[DX Wombat]

Wasn't there a similar incident a couple of years ago? Also somewhere in S Wales. I think it was also a student and instructor but I could have got it all wrong. From what I remember they either landed on or very near to a road.

[mikehallam]

"Precautionary" ?

[AlphaMale]

Wombat you're not thinking of the Air Cadets are you?

BBC NEWS | UK | Wales | Four die in mid-air plane crash (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7883338.stm)

There have been a few reports circulating most mention the word fuel a few times. I'd take anything the papers say with a pinch of salt.

'Crash plane ran out of fuel' (http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/southwalesnews/Crash-plane-ran-fuel/article-1888437-detail/article.html)

Grabbing peoples attention with 'We could have been killed, says crash pilot' doesn't do aviation any favours. Both pilots are fine after landing in a field, away from any buildings or the public ... Of course they will never look at the positives :ugh:

[Carbon Cristal]

Pilot DAR

How have you had four emergency/Urgent landings. I accept your definitions, I have never met anyone with that many. What were they due to? How did you manage them all?

Cristal

[pipertommy]

Could have died driving to the airport:E

[Lister Noble]

All my landings are like that.:)

[DX Wombat]

No, Alpha, the one I'm thinking of involved a PA28 I think. It definitely wasn't the AEF crash.