Air Holding buys the Sabena brand

[sabenapilot]

it is now official-

The new owners of former Sabena's subsidiary DAT, Air Holding NV/SA, have signed a contract with the receivers of Sabena to buy the name of this former Belgian national carrier.
The deal leaves room to other subsidiaries of the old Sabena group to keep on using the brandname Sabena for their non-airline related activities like handling, catering, cleaning, technics, hotels etc. in the future too.

It is widely expected that DAT+, after its merger with Virgin Express into a single Belgian flag carrier in which Air Holding will have the majority stake, will be renamed Sabena.

[The Guvnor]

Remarkably bad move that - Sabena had one of the worst images in the industry. Such A Bloody Experience Never Again indeed!

This was their opportunity to make a fresh start and put the bast behind them ... why on earth don't they take it?

[sabenapilot]

Sabena might not have had the reputation of a Singapore Airlines or an Emirates for instance, but you can not deny it always used to be a middle class European airline at the least.

Taking into account that in 1949 the first government of the federal Republic of Germany chose 'Lufthansa' as name for the post WW2 national airline, notwithstanding the very bad conotations this name had accross the continent, I do not see why the brandname 'Sabena' would not be a good idea as name for the new Belgian flagcarrier....surely not because of a few days of strike and a (temporary) bankruptcy...

[The Guvnor]

Nope, I wouldn't even class them as a middle ranking carrier - and their fares (amongst the lowest around) reflected that lack of quality.

Haven't we in Europe learnt from the insane fascination the Americans have with resurrecting dead dogs? Pan Am is on its third reincarnation and goodness knows how many versions Braniff went through.

I'm told by someone who was present that when the Sabena signage was removed from the company's offices in Kinshasa, there was open celebration: Sabena had stood for arrogance and poor service there as well as the colonial oppressor.

They now have an excellent opportunity to arise like a phoenix from the ashes of the old. Hopefully, they will use a bit of imagination and create a new, forward looking company - and not live in the past with a decomposing dog.

[sabenapilot]

You just unmasked yourself (or at least your friend) as a pathological liar, as the SN logo and name is still on the building in Kinshasa!
The story about the chearfull crowd it therefore by consequence complely self invented!
Besides, do you really think the Kabilla regime would allow such a spontaneous thing to happen? They know very well what they have to do to get back some of the lost credit in Brussels (government and Royal Palace) and something like this would certainly not be part of it...


Oh yes, and of course Sabena was below all standards. Even Aeroflot-Soviet Airlines did better, right?
Sure... What else can you expect from a company that used to work with people like you?

[twistedenginestarter]

My (vague) impression of Sabena is that they had a special in as regards a number of non-mainstream African routes. Are these worth reviving?

[hanginthere]

I agree with tolipanebas, disagree with the Guvnor

A new Belgium brand, after City Bird and BIA would have a difficult time establishing itself.
The name SABENA goes back along way and in the normal travelling publics' minds does not, I think, sound off any great alarm signals.

If, as the Guvnor states, their fares have been low, then why should that work in any negative way towards the image ?

The DAT brand means nothing to most European travellers, who might just think that Sabena stopped for a while, regrouped, and started again.

Of course you can make "Such A Bloody Experience,Never fly Again" out of the name,but every well-known airline gets the same treatment (think of those for LUFTHANSA and QANTAS)
-too rude to repeat here.

But, tolipanebas, the new Terms and Conditions of Employment and Renumeration may differ with Air Holdings' Sabena.


Good luck anyway

[sabenapilot]

I post the official press release concerning the VEX/DAT+ merger as issued by VEX.
When you read it carefully you'll see it prepares staff and shareholders for a complete change of product (business class) and name (bye bye Virgin brand name) and it also gives the reasons why.


Brussels, 28th December 2001.
Virgin Express (NASDAQ: VIRGY; Euronext: VIRE), announces that it has entered into exclusive discussions with Airholding sa/nv and DAT. Airholding sa/nv recently became the new owner of DAT, the short-haul operating division of the former Sabena.

The objective of the discussions is to explore the benefits of a possible merger of the two companies to create a single Belgian airline that would benefit from the strengths of both companies and aimed at reviving the Belgian airline industry. Confidentiality agreements have been signed to allow for the full exchange of information. As a next step the companies have now signed a new commercial agreement that will be in effect until 28th March 2002 and which is an extension of the previous agreement signed on 14th November 2001.

The concept for the proposed new Belgian airline is that it will be a Brussels-based, business-oriented carrier. At the same time the new carrier will maintain appeal to all cost-conscious travellers, who have come to appreciate the excellent value offered by Virgin Express over the last five years. The parties intend that merger negotiations will be completed during the first quarter of 2002, subject to approval by, amongst others, the EC authorities and the shareholders of Virgin Express shortly thereafter.

If successful, the two airlines will be integrated under a new brand name.

Following the bankruptcy of Sabena on 7th November, passengers booking directly with Virgin Express continue to grow, although yields have suffered as a result of DAT’s promotional prices and DAT accepting passenger tickets from the former Sabena. Load factors have also been reduced in the last two months of the year, following the problems caused by the 11th September tragedy and the cancellation of our wet lease arrangement with Sabena, which at that stage accounted for approximately for 40% of our revenues.

David Hoare, Chairman of Virgin Express, commented: “There is now a unique widespread desire to build a new big Belgian flag carrier that will provide a comprehensive network and a caring service. We are very excited by the prospect of our possible participation in this venture and hope that our discussions will culminate in the successful creation of a new airline early in 2002.”

[The Guvnor]

sabenapilot - when was the last time you were in FIH?

As for the press release, note that they are only in discussions. Nothing is agreed; nothing (apart from confidentiality agreements) has been signed.

Whatever comes out of the other end, you can bet your bottom dollar that the sort of working practices that were permitted at SN will not be permitted at the new carrier - especially if VEX have management control.

[sabenapilot]

Indeed, discussions.

The VEX shareholders will represent about 1/4 to 1/3 of the new joint company, with Air Holding having the remaining shares.

Anyway, I think the main issue now for a lot of my colleagues who were less fortunate than me in finding a new job quickly (with Air Lib) is to have a new big airline in Belgium quickly... Work and pay conditions can than be largely improved over the next months after the dust will have settled...

[Boss Raptor]

I think it's always been on the cards that the SABENA name would return for all the reasons given above...but to charge/pay for it...dear god I agree with the Guv on this one - worst branding in the industry (possibly even more so than Aeroflot)!! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[The Guvnor]

sabenapilot - I see you ducked my question about when you were last in FIH. As I don't suppose Air Lib fly anywhere near there, I suspect not for a long time.

I have just got off the line with my partner, who has been running our CL44 operation out of FIH - and he says that the signage has indeed been removed and that some of the locals were laughing and cheering when it was being done - no one liked or had much respect for the FIH SN staff. SN's heavy equipment is still at N'Djili, but the cars now all seem to have been pressed into use as taxis.

[sabenapilot]

I didn't duck any question, it's just that I don't know this kind of things by hard...
Anyway, I've looked it up, and it was beginning of September. In fact this was also my last flight to Africa for SN; all I did after that was one more flight to New York 1,5 weeks later and then I left for Air Lib.
Yes indeed, contrary to what you may believe, pay, but especially work conditions at SN were not that good you know, so when offered the chance to fly for Air Lib, I didn't hesitate.

As too my new destitions with Air Lib, I must say that Tahiti or Martinique are slightly better for a long lay-over then the DR of Congo. I am sure you agree on that!

Anyway, I see however you have changed your version from a massive outcry of joy to only a handful of unemployed Congolese who stood by in the typical Congolese noisy way and looked at how some outdated advertisements were removed from the windows...
The station at Kinshasa is still operational, because the receiver has got money from Air Holding to pay for the wages of the Belgians in view of a possible return from dat+, New Sabena or whatever they will be called...

[twistedenginestarter]

So toli old chap. Are you now reconsidering your position on the The Guv being a pathological liar?

[sabenapilot]

With all the stuff I have read from him, I'd say that a pathological liar is indeed not a suitable term to discribe him, although a more suitable term would certainly be censored on this forum.

<img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[Hold at Saffa]

So, backwards Sabenapilot,
From Sabena to Air Lib; one basket case to another. You must really have a taste for professional instability, or perhaps Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber share recruiting consultants?
One question though, what hapens when you finaly land a job with an outfit which attaches importance to actually making money rather than losing it in penitential quantities? Strike?

[The Guvnor]

Ummm, sabenapilot - you seem to have problems with English here.

My original post about FIH read:

[quote]I'm told by someone who was present that when the Sabena signage was removed from the company's offices in Kinshasa, there was open celebration: Sabena had stood for arrogance and poor service there as well as the colonial oppressor.<hr></blockquote>

Now, for some reason, you seem to think I said:

[quote]Anyway, I see however you have changed your version from a massive outcry of joy to only a handful of unemployed Congolese who stood by in the typical Congolese noisy way and looked at how some outdated advertisements were removed from the windows...<hr></blockquote>

after I said:

[quote]I have just got off the line with my partner, who has been running our CL44 operation out of FIH - and he says that the signage has indeed been removed and that some of the locals were laughing and cheering when it was being done - no one liked or had much respect for the FIH SN staff. SN's heavy equipment is still at N'Djili, but the cars now all seem to have been pressed into use as taxis.<hr></blockquote>

It's also clear from your response that despite your claim that

[quote]...the SN logo and name is still on the building in Kinshasa! <hr></blockquote>

it now transpires that you haven't been to SIH since September (when SN was still operational); and that in fact you haven't seen the offices since the collapse - and therefore it's clear who the pathological liar is around here. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Just wanted to clear that up. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[crewrest]

So is this the Christmas Guvnor -v- SabenaPilot shouting match then, surely off to jetblast soon then?

[Streamline]

Make no mistake; Sabena has suffered from negligence from the side of their mayor shareholder in the past.

Many of the things that went wrong were beyond the management’s authority for corrective action.

I think that period has almost come to an end.

To compare Sabena with carriers like Emirates or Singapore airlines may however show to be a challenging exercise.

As far as I know, both airlines are struggling behind the public scene with serious operational problems. Anyone who dares to say that those Airlines do not receive full support from their respective governments should carefully analyse his reasoning.

Airlines transport passengers; in an environment that is very unforgiving and does not tolerate negligence or arrogance.

The old Sabena and Belgium for that matter, were, and to a certain extend still are, a place were people are important. In my humble opinion the basis for safe operations and that is what matters in the first place.

Sabena never made skyrocketing profits, but then again it employed a lot of people, probably to many for the number of aircraft it had.

I would like to close with the statement that Sabena ranked No 8 on the list of the most appreciated airlines, BEFORE Swissair, shortly before it went broke.

Maybe we would end up much higher if we too could employ some Indians, Pakistani or Philippines and deny them the basis rights any human deserves to increase our profit margins.

Pilots are supposed to be well-balanced people; therefore I think that my arguments are acceptable for most of us, if looked at in a western humanitarian context.

How does it feel to work for a guy who constantly thinks he is at war with the competition at any price?

I do not know the answer to that question, what I do know is, such a situation is very difficult to slide into in a country like Belgium, from that respect it’s a very healthy place to live.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Toli
Tis-a-Bout time you changed your name to "BILRIA"

<img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[sabenapilot]

So Guvnor,
coming to think about it; when was the last time YOU were in Kinshasa? That must have been well before November 7th 2001, yet you claim to know so well what happened there after that date, even better then the local station manager, which happens to be a rather close relation of mine (I got his christmas card from Kinshasa 3 days ago).

Feel free to keep on posting your self-invented stories about Sabena and its possible relaunch; I am 100% convinced at least the readers of this forum will have the basic human skills to seperate fiction from reality.

BTW, Instead of trying to analyse my replies for possible inconsintencies (something I do not see in all the text you've quoted), why don't you look into your own posts on the DAT+/VEX/New Sabena topic lately? Ashamed about how few of all your predictions have come true?
Mind you a confrontation with too much rubbish can cause serious health problems, although I suppose you found that out the hard way a long time ago...


As to my new employer Air Lib-
That's a different discussion which I do not want to have here (feel free to move the the French forum on this site), but I can assure you all this is a fantastic place to fly at!
We do about 2 up and downs and 1 world tour a month and go to all kind of exotic and touristic places I could only dream of when flying for SN... Truely a revelation for me.


Now if you excuse me, we have invited some Sabena and Sobelair ex-colleagues, an Air Lib line training captain and their wife to celebrate New Year with us, so see I have something better to do then to have a useless discussion here with a lonely, frustrated and embittered aviation wannabe looking for personnal satisfaction in the economical consequences the September 11th attacks had on some airlines and their 10,000s of employees. I am sorry.

[hanginthere]

tolipanebas -
have a lovely new year. I also had very nice expieiences with Sobelair
But tell me,this does interest me,do your flemish speaking counterparts get the same treatment as those french speaking ones ??