Flight Timer [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

Paully617

28th Feb 2010, 17:55

Hi all, i am in need of a suitable flight timer to use for my PPL training. I have my QCC this week and so am in a bit of a hurry.

I was looking at the ASA flight timer 2 but to be honest, i dont think i can justify the £30-40 price tag for what is, essentially, a glorified egg timer.

SO, what are you guys using??

Ryan5252

28th Feb 2010, 18:23

Transponder on our 152 has a simple timer; Start, Stop & Clear, this is just about all I need for Nav ex. Failing that, I have a timer on the iPhone, I have never used this in flight but suppose it would do the trick. Failing that, (must be a bad flight!) I have a watch; not as precise admittedly but should do the job also. Can't see how you would justify the need to purchase a timer for PPL training in my humble opinion. :ok:

what next

28th Feb 2010, 18:30

Hi!

SO, what are you guys using??

As Ryan5252 already said: There is a timer built into almost every piece of modern avionics (ADF, Transponder, GPS, many NAV/COM units, ...). Many aeroplanes have a panel or yoke mounted clock/stopwatch/timer. Then there's your mobile phone (not only the iPhone has a timer!), your watch, your pocket calculator.
But if you really feel that you need a timer, the cheapest 5€ kitchen timer will do the job as you say!

Good luck with your test!
max

1800ed

28th Feb 2010, 18:50

I just used my watch.

Whirlygig

28th Feb 2010, 18:53

A cheap stopwatch from any sports shop; better value than the ones sold in the flight catalogues.

Cheers

Whirls

ak7274

28th Feb 2010, 18:59

Tesco......£3.50

BackPacker

28th Feb 2010, 19:18

I have the ASA flight timer you mentioned. It's got local time (both 12/24 hour) and UTC, six independent approach timers plus a separate stopwatch, a notepad, backlight, runs on a single AA battery. Everything you need.

But it's also big. No way you can easily mount this somewhere portable. Not on your wrist, not on the yoke/stick, not on a lanyard around your neck, not on your kneeboard. The only way it's really useable would be if you mount it permanently in your cockpit somewhere. Today, it mostly lives in my flightbag and I honestly don't know why I'm still carrying it around. I don't think I've ever used it in anger so far.

For the PPL exam, all you really need is a clock of some sort. For me, a simple analog watch did just fine but hey, go wild and get a digital watch if you think it'll make you a better pilot. But remember that the accuracy required for the PPL navex is only along the lines of +/- 5 minutes ETA. Any simple clock will do.

Only once you start doing the CPL and/or IR, the accuracy requirements go up, and you need something that you can start/stop. But even then an analog stopwatch will probably do just fine.

Whirlygig

28th Feb 2010, 19:30

I used said cheap sports stopwatch for my PPL but, funnily enough, found it easier to just use my watch for the CPL.

Cheers

Whirls

rans6andrew

28th Feb 2010, 20:04

borrow your kitchen timer from home!

When you have used it in anger you will know EXACTLY what features you really want and then you can go around the cook shops till you find one you like at a price you are prepared to pay.

I have a cheap stopwatch velcro'd to my dash, impulse buy from Maplins because it is exactly the same shade of yellow as the aircraft is. It has an alarm which is not loud enough to hear in the cockpit but is useful during stopovers. I do tend to just glance at the time and remember it rather than set the stop watch for in flight navigation timings. Can't be bothered with pressing fiddly buttons and multi options. Look, note, remember, sorted.

Gertrude the Wombat

28th Feb 2010, 20:56

Bog standard watch (with second hand once you've got the PPL and are doing IMCr stuff). Yes there's timers in the avionics but it's quicker and simpler just to glance at your wrist, surely?

IO540

28th Feb 2010, 21:36

Kitchen timer with nice big numbers and very clear functions.

You will chuck it away as soon as you get your PPL and buy a GPS :)

Genghis the Engineer

28th Feb 2010, 23:01

Inexpensive end pilots watch with a stopwatch.

Worked for PPL, TPS, 1000ish hours, and CPL training.

To be honest, any half decent wristwatch with a stopwatch will be fine so long as you can read both at once. My personal foible is that I fit an "Animal" velcro watchstrap to my watch - which I use to strap it around the yoke (or something convenient in front of me if the aeroplane has a stick).

If on a budget, try Argos! (http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?storeId=10001&langId=-1&q=WATCH&pp=20&s=Relevance&canned_results_trigger=%28free_text%3D%3D%28+WATCH%29%29%28m ode%3Dpage%3D%28+SEARCH_x2B_NAV%29%29%28cfg%3Dgrouped_displa y%3D%28+_x30_%29%29%28cfg%3Danswers_per_page%3D%28+_x32_0%29 %29&p=281)

G

CKnopfell

1st Mar 2010, 03:34

Agree with the above. On a VFR flight you are working to minutes, not seconds. Your wristwatch is just fine. Cuts down on cockpit clutter and no risk of it ending up under the pedals.

Other tip is to tie your pen to your clipboard. Otherwise, it *will* end up on the floor.

Good luck with the QXC,
Carl

KeesM

1st Mar 2010, 12:27

A 5€ watch set to UTC glued to my kneeboard.

-Kees.

BTW. Kitchen timers tend to be more fragile than wrist watches.

Islander2

1st Mar 2010, 12:48

Paully617,

You should take the advice given above with a pinch of salt. For 'real' PPLs, nothing less than the new Martin Baker watch by Bremont will suffice, as promoted in the March edition of Pilot magazine. Okay it costs £2,895, but that's a small price to pay to look a proper ......... pilot. :rolleyes:

tomtom_91

1st Mar 2010, 13:28

I use my iPhone or just a cheap watch that I got from Argos.

liam548

1st Mar 2010, 16:08

My 200m water-proof G Shock solar powered, radio controlled digital watch is fine. And i dont even bother using the stopwatch or countdown functions...

;)

A and C

1st Mar 2010, 16:24

I tried the egg timer from the kitchen but it stops when it falls over in turbulance!

24Carrot

1st Mar 2010, 17:13

The sports timers have one advantage over kitchen timers: they show hundredths of seconds, so you can see immediately if pressing the big START button worked, and get your eyes back out of the cockpit sooner.

Obviously, you will not actually need the hundredth of a second accuracy!

Try to get a flat screen: curved screens always manage to find some annoying sunlight to reflect back at you.

I didn't use a timer for my QXC, just a watch with big hour and minute numbers.

Good luck!

IO540

1st Mar 2010, 18:22

You should take the advice given above with a pinch of salt. For 'real' PPLs, nothing less than the new Martin Baker watch by Bremont will suffice, as promoted in the March edition of Pilot magazine. Okay it costs £2,895, but that's a small price to pay to look a proper ......... pilot

Surely, a Breitling - the one with the 121.5 transmitter inside. A Bremont is just a fancy watch but the Breitling demonstrates a proper attitude to aviation safety.

Ryan5252

1st Mar 2010, 19:02

Other tip is to tie your pen to your clipboard. Otherwise, it *will* end up on the floor.

One word: Ashtray!

BackPacker

2nd Mar 2010, 07:32

Surely, a Breitling - the one with the 121.5 transmitter inside.

Unfortunately 121.5 is no longer monitored by the satellites. Only used for homing, but not for alerting.

Does Breitling do a GPS-enabled 243 MHz emergency watch already?

IO540

2nd Mar 2010, 07:46

Satellite monitoring of 121.5MHz never worked anyway, due to false alarms and "accuracy" of several hundred nm.

Satellite monitoring of 243MHz stopped in 2009.

So a 406MHz watch is the way to go :) I think the power requirement may be significant though... you can emit milliwatts on 121.5 and it will still get picked up on VDF equipment from say 10 miles away, which is all that 121.5 beacons were used for anyway for many years. But I think 406 needs a certain power to be picked up by the satellite.

However, Breitling would be perfectly happy to bring out a watch that is 100mm diameter, 50mm thick, and weights 1kg. Think of the extra pose value :) After all, their current products are halfway there already, size-wise :)

Genghis the Engineer

2nd Mar 2010, 08:27

cruel IO540, but uncannily accurate.

G

BackPacker

2nd Mar 2010, 08:37

Yeah, 406 MHz is what I meant, instead of 243. It's early...

It flies

2nd Mar 2010, 10:00

Why settle for a paltry Breitling if you can have this?

Oversized Watches: Search results for 54mm (http://www.oversizedwatch.net/search?q=54mm)

It's big, it's ugly, it's unreadable and it's only €520,000...

O.k., it hasn't got an ELT. But you can always carry one on the other wrist.

S-Works

2nd Mar 2010, 10:47

My watch. I was taught to tell the time at the same time I was taught to read. I can still do it.

It flies

2nd Mar 2010, 11:13

O.k. Bose-x, I'll rephrase to 'hard to read in the cockpit'.

Still, congratulations on your choice! I sold mine because I found it hard to read though... :ok:

I see adverts for watches like this in magazines all the time and many times wondered if they actually sell some of these.

mad_jock

2nd Mar 2010, 11:37

Why would anyone need 6 approach timers?

BackPacker

2nd Mar 2010, 11:50

Why would anyone need 6 approach timers?

MJ, women are better at multitasking than we are. Maybe the answer lies in there somehow?:rolleyes:

The official explanation in the ASA flight timer instruction booklet was that you could preset each of these timers to countdown from a set value, and you would look at your approach plates for the approaches you flew most and set six values accordingly. So the APP1 timer would be the NDB approach for your home field, APP2 would be the VOR approach for your favourite destination, and so forth.

I'll leave the poking of holes in this explanation to other readers of this forum.:D

what next

2nd Mar 2010, 12:04

I'll leave the poking of holes in this explanation to other readers of this forum.

It's the same as with the frequency memories of some NAV/COM units: By the time I have pulled the number of the memory slot under which I filed a certain frequency from my own memory, I will either have read that frequency from the approach plate or remembered the figures themselves...

But obviously, peoply base their buying decision on this kind of stuff.

BTW: I have yet to time my first apporach (after 21 years of instrument flying) - but thats a completey different topic.

mad_jock

2nd Mar 2010, 12:08

I could see you maybe setting 1 timer for one tank of fuel and one for the other one. But i have never yet seen anyone remember every time to swap the timers over. Personally I go for the top part of the hour is on the left tank and the bottom the Right tank.

O well each unto there own.

Personally a Citzen eco drive with 24 hour hand for zulu is my timing device of preference in light aircraft. Zulu hand is for work.

Usually the students that go for the really fancy stuff manage to cock a perfectly good Nav sortie up by fannying around with there timer thingy. Turn time twist turns into Turn, fanny around for 3 mins with the timer and twist and then wonder were the hell are they as they have wandered off by 45deg's while fannying about.

BackPacker

2nd Mar 2010, 12:18

I could see you maybe setting 1 timer for one tank of fuel and one for the other one.

Ah, now that you bring up fuel, I seem to remember the ASA flight timer has a separate countdown timer for that as well. It gets better and better doesn't it? :ok:

mad_jock

2nd Mar 2010, 12:57

NO

After that bit of info it is now confirmed to be on MJ list of ****e bits of flying kit, it joins bits of plastic to work out circuit headings and other such more money than sense items.

BackPacker

2nd Mar 2010, 13:56

MJ, you know what I think it is?

While still in flight training you have money to spend but since you're not qualified yet, cannot spend it on flying. Except for the weekly scheduled lesson. So you start spending your money on stuff that you think is going to improve your flying, or makes you feel good/smart/special/important.

Once you've got the license and a bit of experience you start to realise that other than a map, a watch and a pen, there's really not a lot you need to go flying. But you also realise that the flying itself is rather darn expensive. So you quickly grow out of buying unnecessary stuff.

There's a whole market catering for the first category. This page is a good start:

Nav Kit - afeonline.com, Europe's favourite online Pilot Shop, by (http://www.afeonline.com/shop/index.php?cPath=24_50&sort=2a&page=1)

And this is even better:

AviationMegastore.com (http://www.aviationmegastore.com/)

And the word gullible comes to mind: I have seen guys walking around with five different types of protractors in their pockets. How many different ways are there to measure angles and lengths?

mad_jock

2nd Mar 2010, 15:06

Aye whats just under one of them timers on the AFE site but those stupid heading calculators.

Nearly made the bloke in the spotters shop in Leeds cry when he was about to flog 5 different coloured chinagraphs, 3 different rulers, a square, 3 sheets of VOR roses, a chart that was about to go out of date in 2 weeks time a crap 5, pen clips, vfr logs, those heading calculators, and 2 things I didn't even have a clue what they did or what they were.

The dad was well chuffed when they left with Book 1 and air law and a list they could get from tesco's.

Mind you the school I help out with reckons I sell stuff by negative feed back. I tell folk whats ****e and what they really need. Doesn't seem to make a blind bit of difference.

Normal sales line for see through VOR roses

What are these for?
Put them back they are ****e you don't need them.
How much are they?
You don't need to know cause there ****e.
Would they help with my Nav?
No cause there ****e, your nav is ****e, two ****es just means a bigger lump of ****e.
Ok stick two sheets on my bill for today along with one of these special rubbers.

Ehh!!!!

4 hours later, who manged to shift some of those VOR roses?
Me
But you don't like them and tell everyone there ****e.
Yep and I did, and he still bought them along with one of those daft rubbers.

liam548

2nd Mar 2010, 19:44

Unfortunately 121.5 is no longer monitored by the satellites. Only used for homing, but not for alerting.

Does Breitling do a GPS-enabled 243 MHz emergency watch already?
http://www.breitling.com/modeles/pdf/BR9934-InfoEmergency_210x148_en.pdf

according to wikipedia they do a 243 watch as well

Breitling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitling)

liam548

2nd Mar 2010, 19:51

IO540

2nd Mar 2010, 20:08

Interesting Breitling did a 243MHz watch....

Does any S&R vehicle have 243-capable VDF?

AIUI, very few have 406-capable VDF even today.

reddersv8

25th Sep 2010, 14:57

Dohh!, I have just ordered an ASA 2 timer from Transair; how big is big? none of the ads anywhere state the dimensions. Like you say, it has to be 'portable':confused:

BackPacker

25th Sep 2010, 15:18

Just measured: 8 cm high, 7.5 cm wide, 2.5 cm thick minus the clip and knobs. Closer to 4 cm thick including clip and knob. Weight 110 gram including battery.

(And I surprised myself today. Couldn't find it in my flight bag anymore but in the pile of **** that's in my closet at home. So I guess it's official now...:*)

mad_jock

25th Sep 2010, 16:39

Was it with the seethru VOR roses?

reddersv8

25th Sep 2010, 17:25

Thanks BackPacker, that does seem a bit big! Did you ever use it in anger, if so how/ what did you attach it to? Maybe I'll call Transair Monday and get a credit note instead!, [or a bulk pack of see thru VOR Roses]. :ooh:

BackPacker

25th Sep 2010, 18:26

I actually don't remember using it in anger. And now that it's been moved to the **** pile in the cupboard I don't think I ever will.

MJ, it wasn't me that bought the see-through VOR roses. I did come to my senses in time to prevent that. I'm also still using a single ruler and protractor, and I've so far also been able to withstand the urge to buy a circuit direction calculator. In fact all of the junk in that pile was either given for free (like a Spirit-of-St.Lewis memorial clock thingy, came for free with a Flyer subscription) or is totally non-aviation-related.

mad_jock

25th Sep 2010, 23:57

Unless you have had an industrial accident or were born with a defect of having no thumbs I can't really see the point of you having a protractor or ruler.

Although the protractor square is quite good for scraping ice off your windscreen and the ruler is good for scratching your back if you get sunburnt and its peeling.

:p

24Carrot

26th Sep 2010, 15:27

MJ, I do have thumbs:ok:, but they just aren't straight enough or long enough!:ugh:

As an obvious connoisseur, you should check out the "Blind Spot Original Pilot's Ruler" at Transair. It is perfectly located between the String Protractor and the 10-pack of Compass Roses.:D

mad_jock

26th Sep 2010, 19:45

Your trying to get me banned again for using swear words.

£16 for a bit of :mad: plastic!!!!!!!!

24Carrot

26th Sep 2010, 20:31

Your trying to get me banned again for using swear words.I think 'extreme provocation' is a valid defence!

winstonterr

28th Sep 2010, 09:11

Hi,
I get car sick and I wanted to know if its different on a plane. I'm going to be on a plane for 6 hours and then land but go on a 7 hour flight after two hours. Any advice or medication to take before going on the plane? Thanks.
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