Qantaslink and Emirates to PNG ?

[Waghi Warrior]

Word around the traps in Port Moresby, is that Qantaslink are about
to start operating in between Cairns and Port Moresby with Dash 8 Q400s,
starting in the next couple of months.
I also believe that Emirates are looking at coming to Port Moresby.
Anyone heard anything along these lines ?
Interesting times ahead if these rumours are true.

Post edit !
The Emirates rumour was being broadcasted by the PNG media last week.
The load factors are forcast to increase substansialy due to the PNG LNG
project.

Typo errors corrected for the spell checkers !

[Bypass ratio]

There is a very high chance of Emirates flying into Cairns though with the recent agreement between the Aussies and the Arabs.......

[geeup]

Strange I have not heard those rumours in Moro home of LNG

[woody744]

How dare a full service carrier think of servicing Cairns from an asian port :E

doesn't Qantas service - oh no it doesn't, pulled out all those full flights years ago :(

[40Deg STH]

Cathay has done HKG-CNS for many years now.

[Metro man]

A few years ago I watched a program which stated that PNG received the same number of tourists in a year as Australia did in half a day. Air Niugini already provide connections via Singapore and Hong Kong into the world long haul network.

With a lack of tourist facilities, considerable security concerns and the country not being a source of cheap labour for the middle east, I doubt there's enough reason for EK to justify a Dubai - Moresby service.

[feetonthedash]

I see in todays Australian IASA are advertising for A330 & A340 Lames in CNS...........What desert carrier operates these types?

;)

[chimbu warrior]

Seems there may be some substance to this rumour.

http://www.iasc.gov.au/applications/files/4528.pdf

[magic8]

Lames in CNS to certify for CX

[sky surfer]

Are PX getting 2 Q 400's. The only place they could use these is b/w CNS and POM? I believe that PX and QF code share these flights. Intresting times ahead for PX. Maybe QF are'nt happy with their current service.

[fritzandsauce]

12 proposed QantasLink services to Port Moresby from July 1New flights worth $100m to Cairns- Local Cairns News | cairns.com.au (http://www.cairns.com.au/article/2010/03/13/99021_local-news.html)

[cnic]

Metro man you obviously know nothing about PNG it will never be about the tourists but something worth alot more mining, PNG is one of the richest countries in the world. Its just near impossible to get passed the locals to get the stuff out. LNG will be bigger then only thing that is happening in WA if and we all know if they can get it over the line.

[Waghi Warrior]

Here is another link, australianaviation.com.au | Australian Aviation Magazine (http://australianaviation.com.au/author/ellis-taylor/)
I guess PX will throw the F100s or a Boeing back on the route,in a knee jurk reaction

[Metro man]

I know PNG would fulfill most of the criteria to have the status of "failed state". Thirty five years of independence haven't brought a great deal of progress. What should be an incredibly wealthy country, given it's vast mineral wealth, is in fact a backward, corrupt, aids riddled and VERY dangerous place.

Come to Port Moresby and enjoy its many tourist attractions, dine in one of its many international standard restaurants, party at a world class night club and get robbed/raped/murdered on your way back to your hotel.:E

If the LNG manages to get going it will be shipped out in tankers, I can't see Emirates flying it out in the cargo hold.

I suppose EK could fly to PNG, they even fly to Nigeria. I don't know if they can justify a B777 when connections are already available via Hong Kong, Singapore and Australia.

[Wizofoz]

Remember that EK don't need the country to be rich- just the passengers!

Lagos (Nigeria) is one of our most profitable routes. We put (and fill!) two 777-300ERs into there daily, and I believe it has the highest yield fares we charge anywhere.

[vee tail]

A couple of rumour confirmations......... as much as you can confirm rumours.
Yes PX has 2 Q-400's arriving
No CNS and POM the only places they can operate.
Yes QF operating flights to POM in Q-400's.:ok:
QF happy with PX as to the reason for operating their own flights :confused::confused:

Doubful EK operating to POM.
Unless political gains can be made that are beneficial to certain individuals:oh:

[Buai Bob]

Could be than QF / QLink want just want to join the Cairns Chamber of Commerce and get on the great PNG gravey train (aka LNG Project) where about 5000 expat jobs are expected to be created in the next few years.

Good luck to them. I reckon there will be plenty to go around.

While they are at it why don't they start afternoon flights direct to Mount Hagen and Goroka to their schedules. I'm sure the boys down at QLink would just love to have a crack at that.

[Waghi Warrior]

Bob, get real mate and let's get serious here,forget about a Hagen and Goroka,Chimbu is the centre of fun. The Q400 would have the power to get out of their in a sticky situation and even better they would be able to carry 70 plus out. :ok:

[b55]

Do Hagen and Goroka, or anywhere else in PNG, have RNAV/GNSS approaches?

[an3_bolt]

Chimbu is the centre of fun

....haha....don't forget to tell them about the wires......

[sky surfer]

b55.... When I worked up there no GNSS/ RNAV for GKA and Chimbu. Hargen had NDB approach. GKA & Chimbu are visual approaches. Can get the blood flowing at times. I wouldnt like to fly with people who didnt know the land or weather. Ive see old boys who spent most of their flying career in PNG break into a sweat going in and out of these places.

[b55]

...the wires, and how about those earth quakes rolling through (been there done that), and oh, how about those chimbu "reception (pissed off!!) committees", and oh, how about those 20-25kt. quartering tail winds on final, and oh, how about trying to find that threshold in the rain and low cloud, and oh, how about trying to get down the valley when you can't get in ,and oh, how about...., THE WIRES, you have f8cked up if the wires come into your problem solving. Why doesn't AirNuigini go in there? Because Chimbu is and always has and always will be for the young(not going to die here and building loads of flt. time!!), the bold(not going to die here because I'm really the best pilot in the world!!), and the reckless(don't care where I die...).

[sky surfer]

b55...last time i spoke with a mate who works for Air niugini he told me he flew in and out of Chimbu. He is no hour builder or thrill seeker, just a pilot who likes to fly oh... and he is old over 59.

[b55]

sky surfer
Buai Bob and an3 bolt were suggesting that if Qlink wanted to make a a move into PNG why don't they go to the REALLY challenging places like Chimbu, Hagen or Goroka, like "real" PNG PILOTS do. Just responding to that idea from them. It sounded like a go at Qlink pilot's abilities. Most PNG pilots never REALLY ENJOY going into Chimbu(Airlines go where management say, not pilots) When was the last time AirNuigini went into Chimbu? Last time I was aware was when they had Dash 7's. And not for that long either. Can't remember but why did they pull out of Chimbu?! (not enough revenue on the route, too many missed approaches-diversions, loss of the Dash 7, all of the above)

[AxelPNG]

PX fly to Kundiawa (CMU) on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays in Dash 8-200.

[an3_bolt]

and an3 bolt were suggesting that if Qlink wanted to make a a move into PNG why don't they go to the REALLY challenging places like Chimbu, Hagen or Goroka, like "real" PNG pilots do

.... no actually - sorry your crystal ball is clouded. That was not my thinking and quite frankly I do not know how you came to a conclusion such as that. No need to jump to conclusions.

[b55]

Buai Bob
"While they are at it why don't they start AFTERNOON flights direct to Mt. Hagen and Goroka to their schedules. I'm sure the boys down at Qlink would JUST LOVE to have a crack at that."

Wahgi Warrior
"....forget Hagen and Goroka, Chimbu is the CENTRE OF FUN."

an3 bolt
HAHA...DON'T FORGET TO TELL THEM about the wires."

What am I suppose to get out of those BS comments?

[Buai Bob]

B55, seems I've hit a nerve there. You don't happen to work for QLink by any chance? I actually wish the QLink guys all the best on the CNS POM run. I wonder who will be doing their turn arounds for them in POM. I hope the refuellers turn up for them just as quickly and reliably as they do for me. I guess they will carry Nadzab as an alternate for Moresby, just like we do. Do they have to get checked in there or will they just have a crack at it the first time they have to divert. All I hope is that they do their homework better than the last lot that had a go at this (ala Sky Air World)

[NCD]

Um..not too sure what QLink flying CNS - POM - CNS has to do with flying to Goroka and Chimbu, but anyway, to set the record straight Sky Air World did not have a "go at it," on the route, they were simply chartered by PX due to heavy maintenance that was being carried out on some of the PX fleet.

And yes, as stated by others, PX currently operates the Dash 8 into Chimbu three times a week.

[Bypass ratio]

Emirates was told 2 weeks ago that they could have an additional 7 slots into Australia/week if they flew via a regional port such as Cairns, Adelaide or Darwin. Personally I don't think there are enough Muslims, Indians or oil in PNG for Emirates to be flying there, however I do think Cairns maybe an option with QantasLink allowing connections to PNG.

[plainmaker]

A couple of quick questions:

What aircraft is proposed for QLink to use for the route, -300's or -400's?

PX currently do a Mt Hagen-Cairns charter in their Dash-8 for Barrick Gold, but it has to refuel at TI on both the up and down.

Now if QLink did a direct Highlands service, would they have the range to not have the fuel stop?

If the -400 was on the route, would it have the range or would it need to drop into Horn to refuel - difficult then since Horn cannot take the -400 due to pavement issues.

And what would be the ALT for direct CNS-POM or CNS-MHN routings.
Plainmaker

[Bang Bus]

I am fairly sure the 400 to get out to POM hold for a while and still get back to Cairns with additional holding if wx required. A very different machine compared to the 1/2/3 in that respect. It has twice the fuel capacity of the 300, no were near twice the burn and 100kts of TAS on the 300.

[Spinnerhead]

The Q400 can go from CNS to POM, carrying CNS with a tempo as the alternate.

[Ricky Bobby]

12 flights a week is a massive increase in capacity on a route already with two carriers.

Doubt very much that the 'link will ever fly any more north than whats required for the 14L ILS.

They aren't stupid and I'm sure will hire PNG experienced guys to crew the aircraft if contracts/RPT runs are in the offing (could be requirement from the customer).

IF they don't, no offence but I would prefer to fly as a pax in an all-stops run up into the Southern Highlands in a DHC6. Horses for courses.

[wotthe]

While the 400 is capable of carrying CNS+60 for POM it's dependant on the load obviously, however my understanding is that for International ops an alternate is required, I may be wrong. Nadzab would be the only one for the 400 if push comes to shove.

Crewing will be from Cairns and Qlink will not employ from outside to crew the flights, period, PNG experienced or otherwise. There are one or two in Qlink with PNG experience but it won't be a prerequisit and if one is required to divert to Nadzab I would expect that all Captains would have to be port qualified, ie; go there, self briefing would not be an option, that could prove expensive.

[Mr snuffaluffagus]

Wotthe,

Excuse my ignorance, but why isn't a self breifing an option?

[Wizofoz]

Not sure how AUS runs airport Qualification, but under ICAO airports are Cat A,B or C.

A requires no special briefing.

B requires a briefing (self briefing of written material is acceptable)

C requires physical entry, though an approved, specific Simulator detail is acceptable.

Might Q-link qualify its pilots for Nadzab in the Sim?

[wotthe]

It's a bit like Lord Howe, terrain, local conditions, etc.

As an absolute minimum a Sim session would be appropriate however for LH a Sim and at least 4 sectors is the min.

[ad-astra]

When VB started their BNE-POM services up on behalf of PB the Captains required a physical entry into Port Moresby with a Check/Training Captain prior to operating there on the line. (Cat C port)

Cat C ports for VB 737 are Cairns, Townsville, Hamilton Island, Canberra, Hobart, Christmas Island, Honiara, Port Moresby, Denpasar, Wellington.

We only carry an Aussie alternate for POM as NZB was considered not suitable fo a whole 'variety' of reasons!

[Waghi Warrior]

POM is an easy place to get into if your not coming from the North. ILS's on both runways and reasonably reliable ATC with radar,although they do have the occassional glitch ! The issuses will be on the ground,parking,refuelling and ground support. Who's going to do their turn arounds ? I'm sure PX will show a lot of interest if Qantas take away the code share.

[wotthe]

Ad-astra

I suspect Aussie alternates (CS) will be it for Qlink as well for probably the same reasons.

[Buai Bob]

The Q400 probably can carry round trip fuel to Australian ports. But can it do that with a full load and can it do that if there is 60 holding on Cairns. In either case how about the case where the Q400 does a couple of approaches into POM then diverts to Cairns. That might wear a bit thin with the punters. Not that you miss out getting into POM too often. I reckon the issue will be the cargo/baggae that the Q400 will carry. Punters going to POM carry alot more than the usual QLink 10 KG limit. Interesting times ahead. I guess QLink might always consider using the B717.

[13/31]

Or perhaps Horn Island.

[Kiwiconehead]

Or perhaps Horn Island.

Haven't they been there, done that, f##cked the runway, already with the Q400?

[wotthe]

As was mentioned previously, fuel load will be determined by payload.

If CS is carrying 60 then the payload will be adjusted toallow for the extra fuel.

HID is the problem of the local authority, not Qlink.

If requirements are put on CS after departure which preclude the 400 from returning to CS then HID is an option. The local authority has given approval for Qlink to carry HID as an alternate for the 400.

Alternatively, Weipa.

[Spinnerhead]

If CS is carrying 60 then the payload will be adjusted toallow for the extra fuel.


Yep, it ain't rocket science!

Punters going to POM carry alot more than the usual QLink 10 KG limit

What 10 kg limit is that!

I guess QLink might always consider using the B717.

Too expensive me thinks.

[Buai Bob]

Don't know about the economics of a 717 but I suspect that if Q Link go it with Q400s ANG will counter it with F100s. Which one would you rather fly to POM on? I do know what most Papua New Guineaians will choose (especially if they are not paying).

Another issue which I reckon QLink might find challenging is where are they going to park when they get to POM. Bays are already filled to max most days.

If its not 10 kg then what is the normal Y class check in baggage limit for QLink.

[Di_Vosh]

As it was explained to us, QLink are going after the Aussie workers and not the PNG nationals.

IMHO, aussies may well prefer a Qlink turboprop over an ANG F100. :eek:

Standard Qlink Checked baggage limit is 23kg. There are exceptions on some routes (e.g. LHI is 14kg) but no info on this yet.

DIVOSH!

[Night Beetle]

There are a lot of expats working in the Highlands now. Why would you bother going all the way to POM then out to where ever.

International flights leave Hagen now.

Less congestion in POM spread the load etc.

[swaziboy]

What is wrong with an ANG F100?
Apart from schedule unreliability?

[vee tail]

IMHO, aussies may well prefer a Qlink turboprop over an ANG F100.
:confused::confused::confused:

Why would a Turbo Prop job be better than a Jet job:confused:

Lucky its just your opinion

[Di_Vosh]

Why would a Turbo Prop job be better than a Jet job

I didn't say it was.

But now you mention it, there are a few regional routes in Australia where turboprops compete very well against jets. :ok: And the reason for pax choice of carrier has little to do with aircraft type.

My opinion, is that aussie workers may prefer to fly to and from home with an Australian carrier over a PNG carrier. Whether it's a jet or a turboprop may be a lesser consideration.

Lucky its just your opinion

Not just mine. :eek:

DIVOSH!

[Ricky Bobby]

Considering the operating environment and infrastructure they have to deal with on a daily basis, PX has done a fantastic job over the years and have an excellent safety record.

[Night Beetle]

The ANG and APNG services are far better than the angry and rude southern carriers.

It is a good time for the local companies to stand up and take on the extra work.

And yes I have travelled on them all.

The bad experiences start right from the checkin.

[Spinnerhead]

To put Cairns QLink crew in the same basket as "the angry and rude southern carriers", is a portrayal of your ignorance. I would suggest your "worldly experience" in this area is limited.

From my personal experience, and those of my associates in the overseas resource sector, an Australian carrier (Jetstar excluded) is always the airline of choice. After just spending however many weeks o/s getting stuffed around by the locals, it is a real pleasure to get on board an ozzy a/c, and to have a good chance of it leaving on time with you and your bags on board.

I think QLink will do well.

[AQIS Boigu]

Cairns to PNG

A couple of quick questions:

What aircraft is proposed for QLink to use for the route, -300's or -400's?

PX currently do a Mt Hagen-Cairns charter in their Dash-8 for Barrick Gold, but it has to refuel at TI on both the up and down.

Now if QLink did a direct Highlands service, would they have the range to not have the fuel stop?

If the -400 was on the route, would it have the range or would it need to drop into Horn to refuel - difficult then since Horn cannot take the -400 due to pavement issues.

And what would be the ALT for direct CNS-POM or CNS-MHN routings.
Plainmaker


Plainmaker,

Airlines PNG does the charter for Barrick and they always go non-stop...(at least in my days we did)... alternate for Mt Hagen is Madang which is a costal airport...

AB