Hour building on a 'group A' motorglider

[iburnthings]

Hi chaps,

One thing is confusing me, if anyone can shed any light.

Is it possible to fly a motorglider which is classified as a 'fixed wing land plane' and log the hours towards a CPL. For example a Monnet Moni, is group A so flown with the engine off, would the hours count towards hour building?

Cheers.

[hatzflyer]

Mute point about the gliding part, but for the record a Monnet Moni is a S.E.P. so hours would be valid whilst under power.

Edited....(I have the only one currently flying in this country):ok:

[iburnthings]

I'm thinking of flying/restoring one. I was just wondering, do you log the time with the engine off differently to engine on? In the long run I need the hours to count toward a CPL but for the meantime it looks like something fun to fly.

What is it like to fly? And is it suitable for grass strips?

Cheers.

[hatzflyer]

They are nice to fly but very low powered. They need a bit of room and best suited to long smooth runways.
To be honest if you just want to rack up hours it would not be ideal.
You would be better of with a good VP1 or a turb or similar. :ok:

[znww5]

I've been researching this topic recently as I have a JAR PPL(SEP) and would like to do a bit of motor gliding. You may find (as I did) that the occasional CFI is a bit out of date with the licensing requirements, so be a little cautious! The following assumes that you have no previous PIC motor glider time logged.

The current situation is that for a JAR PPL(SEP) holder to log motor glider hours, they must take a Skills Test to add a Touring Motor Glider (TMG) rating to their licence. Once you have done that, any hours flown in either Group A or TMG will count towards the PPL revalidation-by-experience requirements for both. You'll find full details in LASORS.

If the CPL requires a certain number of hours specifically in SEP (as opposed to simply being PIC) then the TMG route is a non-starter. As far as I am aware, the vast majority of motor gliders are registered as a " Fixed Wing Self Launching Motor Glider" (eg the Grob 109, Diamond HK36 and T61 Venture) and not SEP . . . . except the Moni of course :).

I notice that you fly from Lyneham, so perhaps it is worth noting that if you fly as a 'C' cat VGS instructor or have 75 hours logged with the Air Cadets you can apply for the TMG rating - again LASORS will give full details on the mil 'discounts'. You can then log VGS time in the same way as described above. (NB the VGS info is from memory so double check!)

Hope this helps.

[Whopity]

'group A' motorgliderNo such thing, Group A has not existed for the past 10 years; it was replaced by SEP. SLMGs and Group A were two different classes as are SEP and TMG.but for the record a Monnet Moni is a S.E.P.If its a motor glider, I would suggest it is a TMG rather than a SEP. What does the documentation say?
Whilst hours flown on a TMG count for revalidation of a SEP as well, a maximum of 30 hours on motor gliders or gliders can be used towards the experience requirements for the issue of a CPL (JAR-FCL 1.155(b)(iii) Thus TMG, SLMG or simply a glider will give you 30 countable hours.

[iburnthings]

Well it is a 'fixed wing landplane' but it is a motorglider i.e you can switch the engine off and it glides fairly well.

So the time with the engine off, does that have to be logged seperatly? Or does it just all go as SEP in the loogbook? And count toward hours building?

[hatzflyer]

" Monnett Moni Motorglider " is the name given to the Monnet design by its designer John Monnett.
Given that most American gliders at that time had much lower performance than European gliders, the Moni was sold as a motorglider, with a glide ratio of 19/1.( see youtube for gliding vids).

In the UK it is registered as a S.E.P. It does not qualify as a motor glider , so does not come under the sub categories of self launching etc.
It is a s.e.p. that has a better than average glide ratio, and as such you can turn the engine off.
Therefor you would be flying a s.e.p. at all times whether under power or not and as such all time is bookable. Having said that at 1 imp gal per hr under power and a 6 gal tank option its cheap enough to leave it running!

My one is up for sale now, PM if interested.:ok:

[hatzflyer]

You have a pm.

[Lost in Cloud]

Short answer is some. You can use a maximum of 30 hours from TMG towards your CPL the other 170 hours must be SEP or MEP hours. Taking into account P1 time and x-country etc.

PPL is different in that you can do your complete you PPL with TMG rating, all 45 hours. All you will need to transfer it to fly Cessna's etc is a conversion to add SEP rating, 5-10 hours depending on experience and ability. Basically you add a rating to your PPL license. Just make sure you do a JAR-PPL and not a NPPL.

So you gain PPL with TMG rating then add SEP rating at a later date.

This route will save you a fortune if you just want a PPL but is not so good if you want to go onto CPL due to the 30 hour maximum rule.

I was a B cat instructor at a VGS on Vigilant's (Grob 109b) so have a lot of hours and really researched this previously. Any further questions feel free to PM me :-)

[hatzflyer]

The post was specific to a Moni. It is not a TMG it is a SEP.therefor hours count just as if it were a PA28.:ok:

Technically you can turn off the engine in a PA28, not that I would advise it.