NASA on the Science of Pilot Error

[twochai]

Interesting link here:

NASA on the Science of Pilot Error (http://www.avweb.com/podcast/podcast/AudioPodcast_KeyDismukes_NASA_PilotError_202079-1.html?kw=AVwebAudio)

[protectthehornet]

There is one easy reason for pilot error.

human beings are NOT of the AIR...we are of the ground. When we trespass on the sky we must be vigilant and thinking...but it seems that when we get near the ground, we stop forgetting about the sky.

[Carbon Bootprint]

Isn't that somewhat of an oversimplification, PTH? Humans seem to have an innate propensity for error in any environment, not only when airborne.

[GHOTI]

on this one. We are, as Richard Bach once wrote, Strangers to the Ground. But the air is a stranger to us as well. A few of us sail boats on oceans as well. We are a guest and are in for a pummeling if we trespass beyond our knowledge and skill. The air is no more evil than the ocean; but we must at all times accept their terms. It's not a good thing or a bad thing. It's just how stuff works.

[protectthehornet]

thank you Ghoti

YES boot, it is a simplification...over or otherwise.

things should be simple.

I've seen really nutty things by people...I've taught flying (instructor, instrument instructor, multi engine instructor/atp) I've flown for 3 regionals and spent over 20 years at a big legacy carrier.

Stuff you wouldn't believe.

I've seen pilots use the control wheel to try to taxi(well below any aerodynamic effect and not in tail wheel aircraft). and suddenly yell...OOOPS.

I saw one woman student who was almost ready to be a private pilot suddenly lose every concept of flight. Entering a published downwind at 800' (correct pattern altitude) and just start to lose altitude over San Francisco bay....Day VFR mind you.

At 300 feet I asked her what was going on...she had suddenly gone clueless on the downwind...she honestly would have just flown into the bay in a perfectly good plane.

I had to see what was going on in her mind. So I had her exit the pattern and come back for another chance at a normal traffic pattern to a normal landing.

She did it again...Exactly the same even though I had briefed her on what went wrong the first time.

I took the plane and landed it. I held her hand and said: I can never trust you to fly a plane as pilot in command. I am not charging you for this lesson. but you must give up flying forever. Something just snapped in your mind and you could kill yourself, your passengers and or someone on the ground. You are intelligent, and a good person but you must give up flying.

I've seen airline captains head towards the wrong airport on a visual when they could easily back themselves up with radio nav.

I've seen people fill out scholarship paperwork for college while flying an airliner in the soup and miss a turn on an airway...thinking it was no big deal.

Nope...when we go into the sky we must be more vigilant than most people can ever be. We must be vigilant for our own human error and the dangers of the sky and our machine...and the others out there who would kill us by mistake because someone didn't tell them to give up the sky. boot

[bearfoil]

An Aircraft is NOT always what we think it to be. Birds generally walk clumsily, and Trucks don't fly. The Aeroplane must be both. It is, in essence, schizophrenic, and at the very least occasionally unpredictable.

Great patience must abound in the cockpit, along with lightning reflex and a measure of paranoia.

If one can Talk, See, Feel, and Think concurrently, you Pass bear's syllabus. Otherwise, call that nice lady PTH washed out, and learn to knit, or summat.

[Skittles]

PTH that is absolutely ridiculous.

A bad day for a student pilot and you tell them to give up flying forever? I'm particularly impressed by your high level psychological analysis, perhaps in future job applications and health checks she can describe her past history of mind snappage.

This morning my brother almost hit another car, which potentially could have been a serious accident. I've just ripped up his license and will shortly discuss with him the fact that his mind has snapped and tell him that he must give up driving forever.

[bearfoil]

Skittles

So it's you! Chief Pilot, Colgan Air. "Well, Captain, you'll do better next time then, Eh? Off with you now". "Everybody gets the trophy, it's only fair."

bear

[protectthehornet]

skittles

when a student has had 150 hours of dual from three instructors and I've had her for 12 hours and finally thought she was doing ok, only to be surprised at NOT ONE BUT TWO complete loss of altitude awareness in the traffic pattern...I made the right choice.
and I think bearfoils amusing comment is right on...colgan 3407 would be there today if someone had told both pilots something wasn't right and to take up knitting.

[Sir George Cayley]

NASA defined the "Normal Day Accident"

Everything is as it was yesterday, then an unexpected catastrophe overtakes and just before you die a faint look of surprise crosses your face.

Somewhere on the web is the flow diagram that takes you from safe ops to the normal accident. Worth looking up.

Look at NASA'a ops today and you'll see a shed load of defense against that scenario.

Learn - Live. Live - Learn

Sir George Cayley

[Dan Winterland]

A friend of mine explained how he once wrote off his car after he had just done 8 hours of cropspraying. As he approached the close gate of the airfield, he did what he had been doing all day. Applied power and tried to ease back on the steering wheel!

[MungoP]

Having now had 2 years of training/requalifying people in simulators I can perhaps offer a small piece of advice to just about every pilot out there (with the exception of the Edwards Air-Force Base Test Pilot that I had the privilege to train on type)...For the rest of you;

You're not as good as you think you are
You will screw up if too relaxed
You will screw up if too overloaded
When leaving the safety of the ground: Sit Up; Shut Up; Focus
When leaving the safety of altitude : Sit Up; Shut Up; Focus

I hope that helps :cool:

[protectthehornet]

MungoP

wise words indeed...never a real time to be too ''fat dumb and happy'' till you get to the hotel that is.

[Desert185]

Two contributing links in the accident chain are company culture and politics, even at NASA. Human error from management's side of the equation, so to speak. Union philosophy and influence, and HR's hiring practices can also be contributing factors. Human error is more than just the two sitting up front, although being at the point of the spear, they are the final quality check and filter for success. Safety is a team effort.