Air China – the signing of a framework agreement to establish a jointly owned cargo a

[arse]

From Tony Tyler,

Today we announced a very significant development in our relationship with Air China – the signing of a framework agreement to establish a jointly owned cargo airline. Our intention to do this was announced when we first forged our strategic partnership with Air China in June 2006, and it is very exciting to see the project launched today.

In joining together with Air China we will use an existing cargo airline, Air China Cargo Co Ltd (ACC), as the platform for the joint venture. ACC is currently a wholly owned subsidiary of Air China but, under the agreement signed today in Beijing, Cathay Pacific will acquire a 25% equity interest directly in ACC and also fund an offshore trust, in the form of a loan, to hold another 24% economic interest in the carrier.

The total value of our investment in the joint venture will be RMB 1,669 million, which will be funded by the sale of four of our Boeing 747-400 BCF freighters and two spare engines to ACC.

The rest of the annoucement is on IntraCX.

This answers a question I had in regard to 30 or 40 Trainers moving to the 777 fleet. I was wondering how that would affect the 747 fleet, but with the "sale" of four aircraft as part of the deal, then they do not need as many crew on the aircraft.

[Nullaman]

then they do not need as many crew on the aircraft.

How does that rack up with all the Oasis/Dragon + converted Classic crews and 4 BCFs not coming back from their desert holidays?

Slack times until the 8F fronts up?

N

[crewsunite]

Send all the Oasis/Dragon crew to Shanghai. Their borrowed time is up in CX.
We did them a favor in bad times to stay with a job. Now it is time for you guys to do the right thing and move along please and to start correctly in a new airline. (Yes in a dream world :})

But out of Senior Commands are not just not fare!

If we are losing 4 planes that means less capacity.
Who knows how many more CC planes & freight business will be channeled through this side kick outfit. Thus delaying our expansion even more..

Maybe 18years to CMD :ugh:

[jonathon68]

30 or 40 Trainers moving to the 777 fleet.They advertised for 25, penciled in 23, but are now only taking 14.

CX line-crew can be sent on a wet lease to fly with CX crews, but CX C&T crew can be sent off to another operator to train up other airline crews. My guess is that the 744 trainers will be going north to do some freighter training for the next year or so. :{

[Nullaman]

My guess is that the 744 trainers will be going north to do some freighter training for the next year or so.

A nice little sojourn for some of our C&T CRM experts then :}

[GTC58]

Air China Cargo operates already 7 B744F aircraft. I am sure they have their own trainers. I believe the 4 BCFs ACC is getting are sitting in Victorville anyways. The reason why the trainers are moving to the B777 is obvious. As per the present business plan all B744 pax aircraft will be replaced by 2013/2014 making the B744 a freighter only fleet and of course a smaller fleet. A lot of future conversion courses on the B777, hence the need for C & T from the B744 fleet.

[jonathon68]

So GTC58, why the cut of 744-777 C&T conversions from 25 to 14 then?

Air China Cargo certainly do have 7x 744F's on-line. However, the plan is to move all of the CX BCF aircraft to Air China asap.

Air China Cargo operates already 7 B744F aircraft. I am sure they have their own trainers. Yes they do for a fleet of 7 aircraft, but not for a fleet of 19. At the same time we have a surplus of crew on the 744.

The plan for CXF is obvious. The 6x 744ERF's will operate to Europe, the 6x original 744F's will basically take over the Classics role of the past couple of years flying around asia/australia/middle east, and the 10? 747-8F will be the transpacific freighter.

The more Junior C&T crew on the 744 will not be going anywhere for quite a few years, except perhaps for a happy secondment over the border.

744 passenger pilots will be moving to the 777 in good order, with NAM pilots the focus 2010/2011 and then European pilots 2011-2013. However, the dynamics for the 744 training cadre are quite different, and will be driven largely by the direction the 744 freighter is going.

[GTC58]

I do not know why the B744 - B777 C&T conversions got cut to 14. I didn't even know that happened. Maybe some of the C&T where found not suitable for the B777 fleet ;) just kidding .....

Never heard that all our BCF's are going to ACC. 4 is the number.
You are quite right the 747-8 will do transpacific apparently Chicago being the first freighter destination. You might be also right that when the -8s are coming CX has no need for the remaining BCF's. However the -8s delivery dates are delayed. So CX will need the BCF's for a while longer and if any/all go to ACC is questionable. Even if ACC would get all BCF's, considering the -8 delivery schedule you would be looking at a 2.5 to 3 year time period from now. Quite a reasonable time frame for ACC to train crews on their own.

As far as I understand it the 4 BCF's and spare engines result in an equity stake in ACC. These BCF's will be operated under ACC OC. I seriously doubt that any CX pilot, incl. C & T, will be flying any ACC aircraft.

Conspiracy theories are always entertaining aren't they?

[Waterskier]

A little off-topic...

But I noticed in the press release that Cathay is loaning Air China Cargo RMB 1,669 Million (or roughly US $245 Million).

It also mentions that construction resumed on the new cargo terminal at HKIA which is a HKD $5.5 Billion investment (~US $708 million)

It looks like money and business are doing well. Any thoughts on SLS repayment? I know they don't have to, but it certainly would be a nice bonus. They did allude during SLS that if there was a return to profitability, they may do an ex-gratia repayment as they did during SARS.

[40Deg STH]

You must have not noticed, but the BCF's are back online and been operating full for some time.

[GTC58]

As far as I know B-HOU, HUR, HUS are still parked in Victorville and KAI should be back in service soon .......

[arse]

18 Years of Command?

Nice to see there are still some optimists out there! :}

[joebanana]

Send all the Oasis/Dragon crew to Shanghai. Their borrowed time is up in CX.
We did them a favor in bad times to stay with a job. Now it is time for you guys to do the right thing and move along please and to start correctly in a new airline

Perhaps you should change your handle to 'crewsdivided'. Crewsunite just doesn't seem to fit.....:ugh:

[SloppyJoe]

Crewsunite

Yeah and if you joined on B-scale maybe you should do the right thing and move on also as with that logic you joining helped degrade T&C's as if no one did on B it would still be A-Scale. Don't blame the individual, blame the company.

[Near Miss]

Please don't let this degrade into another A vs B Scale argument.

My question is, if all the BCF a/c go, leaving only the 744F, ER and -8, what will happen to all those Freighter only, especially the ex CX then ex Oasis, guys? Won't there be too many crew for too few a/c? Can we expect to see them operating the 777 in the near future? Will we have pax Capt with lower seniority numbers than the SO?

[Karunch]

You're kidding yourself if you really think Air China Cargo needs the Cx 'experience'. They've just advertised for 20 Dec's & have operated the type for > 10 years.

[crewsunite]

Sorry, I'm not proud of every post! The problem is I, like a lot of folk have both negative & positive emotions.
I cannot bottle them up all the time!
Sorry but I'm not as happy as I was!
No point telling me to go somewhere else then.
As this whole world is infected this immoral behavior at the moment.

If I became a Lawyer that would be a good career move. But to make good $ you need to be a devil! If you are not after $ and contribute good skills, the world's current system will skin you alive and force you into becoming a modern slave!

Anyway, I'll wake up tomorrow with some positive emotion. I have to, as I'm going to work. Time to be a professional! :8

[Capt Vertigo]

crewsunite:
If I became a Lawyer that would be a good career move. But to make good $ you need to be a devil! If you are not after $ and contribute good skills, the world's current system will skin you alive and force you into becoming a modern slave!


Very said all in the nut shell! :ok:

Happy flying mate!

[Dragonairman]

The 4 BCF's going to ACC and the dates are :-
B-HKS (Aug 2010)
B-KAG (Sep 2010)
B-KAH (Mar 2011)
B-HKJ (May 2011)

[GTC58]

ACC also looking for B744 DEC's, USD 168K/year tax-free.

[Cavallier]

Thank god we are getting rid of KAG.........it is a heap, plus it is bent!!!!



The Cav:ok:

[GTC58]

ACC B744 Captain

Domicile: Beijing, China or USA

Compensation: $168,000USD/year

Contract Term: 2 year initial / Renewable

Benefits:

Salary: $14,000USD/month
Salary based on 80 hours. O/T rate is Monthly Salary / 80.
28 Days of Paid Personal Leave per year. Available after 6 months on line
Housing Allowance of $1,000USD/month for crew based in Beijing, China
Employee Travel - 7 International Round Trip tickets per year on Air China



Wasinc International (http://www.wasinc.aero/Jobs/ViewJob.aspx?id=54)

[GTC58]

I guess Fei Yuan / Wasinc has then the best deal out there

[fly_fly]

I haven't researched this job but there are probably other contractors recruiting for this job. Wasinc is bad news, they have stiffed lots of people and will cheat you. wasinc has a bad reputation, read through some of the posts in the shenzhen airlines thread to see how wasinc treats people. once you goto china you won't be able to change contractors or airlines. you will be stuck so research your contractor very carefully. you have been warned about wasinc.

[SMOC]

Have any of CX's -400BCFs actually been passed onto Air China yet?

[geh065]

None have gone yet. First one this month I believe.

[Captain Falcon]

I have been contracted with wasinc for some time now and I think people are very confused about what wasinc has done or not done as stated in many posts. I have found them to be very helpful in many of the areas dealing with the Chinese (pay, scheduling, etc). I have worked for many different agencies and I have never been supported more. I feel that if wasinc was not here at Shenzhen that things would be a lot worse.

Granted, things are different in China but thats China...Not wasinc . Of all the leasing companies out there including Rishworth, Parc, and FRI (Shenzhen)... you pretty much have no support. Why else would Shenzhen pilots call wasinc instead of their own leasing companies when issues arise? They have gone out of their way to help all the FRI and Brazilian pilots as they are left to fend for themselves. I realize that this is an open forum where anyone can say anything but I think its only fair to point out that if you are going to work in China, you want to make sure you have a good agent. I would pick wasinc again if given the choice.

I don't know if fly_fly works for wasinc but it seems that some of the facts are missing from his viewpoint. The leasing agent has no control over if you move one airline to another. Its the airline that controls your Chines ATP and that is true for any airline in China.

[169west]

Rishworth, Vorholding...which one you suggest?