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Air China the signing of a framework agreement to establish a jointly owned cargo a

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Air China the signing of a framework agreement to establish a jointly owned cargo a

Old 25th Feb 2010, 11:20
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Air China the signing of a framework agreement to establish a jointly owned cargo a

From Tony Tyler,

Today we announced a very significant development in our relationship with Air China the signing of a framework agreement to establish a jointly owned cargo airline. Our intention to do this was announced when we first forged our strategic partnership with Air China in June 2006, and it is very exciting to see the project launched today.

In joining together with Air China we will use an existing cargo airline, Air China Cargo Co Ltd (ACC), as the platform for the joint venture. ACC is currently a wholly owned subsidiary of Air China but, under the agreement signed today in Beijing, Cathay Pacific will acquire a 25% equity interest directly in ACC and also fund an offshore trust, in the form of a loan, to hold another 24% economic interest in the carrier.

The total value of our investment in the joint venture will be RMB 1,669 million, which will be funded by the sale of four of our Boeing 747-400 BCF freighters and two spare engines to ACC.

The rest of the annoucement is on IntraCX.

This answers a question I had in regard to 30 or 40 Trainers moving to the 777 fleet. I was wondering how that would affect the 747 fleet, but with the "sale" of four aircraft as part of the deal, then they do not need as many crew on the aircraft.
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Old 25th Feb 2010, 11:55
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then they do not need as many crew on the aircraft.
How does that rack up with all the Oasis/Dragon + converted Classic crews and 4 BCFs not coming back from their desert holidays?

Slack times until the 8F fronts up?

N
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Old 25th Feb 2010, 13:22
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Time is up

Send all the Oasis/Dragon crew to Shanghai. Their borrowed time is up in CX.
We did them a favor in bad times to stay with a job. Now it is time for you guys to do the right thing and move along please and to start correctly in a new airline. (Yes in a dream world )

But out of Senior Commands are not just not fare!

If we are losing 4 planes that means less capacity.
Who knows how many more CC planes & freight business will be channeled through this side kick outfit. Thus delaying our expansion even more..

Maybe 18years to CMD
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Old 25th Feb 2010, 13:56
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30 or 40 Trainers moving to the 777 fleet.
They advertised for 25, penciled in 23, but are now only taking 14.

CX line-crew can be sent on a wet lease to fly with CX crews, but CX C&T crew can be sent off to another operator to train up other airline crews. My guess is that the 744 trainers will be going north to do some freighter training for the next year or so.
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Old 25th Feb 2010, 14:36
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My guess is that the 744 trainers will be going north to do some freighter training for the next year or so.
A nice little sojourn for some of our C&T CRM experts then
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Old 25th Feb 2010, 15:15
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Air China Cargo operates already 7 B744F aircraft. I am sure they have their own trainers. I believe the 4 BCFs ACC is getting are sitting in Victorville anyways. The reason why the trainers are moving to the B777 is obvious. As per the present business plan all B744 pax aircraft will be replaced by 2013/2014 making the B744 a freighter only fleet and of course a smaller fleet. A lot of future conversion courses on the B777, hence the need for C & T from the B744 fleet.
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Old 25th Feb 2010, 16:59
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So GTC58, why the cut of 744-777 C&T conversions from 25 to 14 then?

Air China Cargo certainly do have 7x 744F's on-line. However, the plan is to move all of the CX BCF aircraft to Air China asap.

Air China Cargo operates already 7 B744F aircraft. I am sure they have their own trainers.
Yes they do for a fleet of 7 aircraft, but not for a fleet of 19. At the same time we have a surplus of crew on the 744.

The plan for CXF is obvious. The 6x 744ERF's will operate to Europe, the 6x original 744F's will basically take over the Classics role of the past couple of years flying around asia/australia/middle east, and the 10? 747-8F will be the transpacific freighter.

The more Junior C&T crew on the 744 will not be going anywhere for quite a few years, except perhaps for a happy secondment over the border.

744 passenger pilots will be moving to the 777 in good order, with NAM pilots the focus 2010/2011 and then European pilots 2011-2013. However, the dynamics for the 744 training cadre are quite different, and will be driven largely by the direction the 744 freighter is going.
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Old 25th Feb 2010, 19:44
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I do not know why the B744 - B777 C&T conversions got cut to 14. I didn't even know that happened. Maybe some of the C&T where found not suitable for the B777 fleet just kidding .....

Never heard that all our BCF's are going to ACC. 4 is the number.
You are quite right the 747-8 will do transpacific apparently Chicago being the first freighter destination. You might be also right that when the -8s are coming CX has no need for the remaining BCF's. However the -8s delivery dates are delayed. So CX will need the BCF's for a while longer and if any/all go to ACC is questionable. Even if ACC would get all BCF's, considering the -8 delivery schedule you would be looking at a 2.5 to 3 year time period from now. Quite a reasonable time frame for ACC to train crews on their own.

As far as I understand it the 4 BCF's and spare engines result in an equity stake in ACC. These BCF's will be operated under ACC OC. I seriously doubt that any CX pilot, incl. C & T, will be flying any ACC aircraft.

Conspiracy theories are always entertaining aren't they?

Last edited by GTC58; 25th Feb 2010 at 19:55.
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Old 25th Feb 2010, 20:08
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A little off-topic...

But I noticed in the press release that Cathay is loaning Air China Cargo RMB 1,669 Million (or roughly US $245 Million).

It also mentions that construction resumed on the new cargo terminal at HKIA which is a HKD $5.5 Billion investment (~US $708 million)

It looks like money and business are doing well. Any thoughts on SLS repayment? I know they don't have to, but it certainly would be a nice bonus. They did allude during SLS that if there was a return to profitability, they may do an ex-gratia repayment as they did during SARS.
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Old 26th Feb 2010, 02:32
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You must have not noticed, but the BCF's are back online and been operating full for some time.
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Old 26th Feb 2010, 03:02
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As far as I know B-HOU, HUR, HUS are still parked in Victorville and KAI should be back in service soon .......
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Old 26th Feb 2010, 03:37
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18 Years of Command?

Nice to see there are still some optimists out there!
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Old 26th Feb 2010, 17:25
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Send all the Oasis/Dragon crew to Shanghai. Their borrowed time is up in CX.
We did them a favor in bad times to stay with a job. Now it is time for you guys to do the right thing and move along please and to start correctly in a new airline
Perhaps you should change your handle to 'crewsdivided'. Crewsunite just doesn't seem to fit.....
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Old 26th Feb 2010, 18:06
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Crewsunite

Yeah and if you joined on B-scale maybe you should do the right thing and move on also as with that logic you joining helped degrade T&C's as if no one did on B it would still be A-Scale. Don't blame the individual, blame the company.
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Old 26th Feb 2010, 23:36
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Please don't let this degrade into another A vs B Scale argument.

My question is, if all the BCF a/c go, leaving only the 744F, ER and -8, what will happen to all those Freighter only, especially the ex CX then ex Oasis, guys? Won't there be too many crew for too few a/c? Can we expect to see them operating the 777 in the near future? Will we have pax Capt with lower seniority numbers than the SO?
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Old 27th Feb 2010, 05:51
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You're kidding yourself if you really think Air China Cargo needs the Cx 'experience'. They've just advertised for 20 Dec's & have operated the type for > 10 years.
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Old 2nd Mar 2010, 05:08
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Sorry, I'm not proud of every post! The problem is I, like a lot of folk have both negative & positive emotions.
I cannot bottle them up all the time!
Sorry but I'm not as happy as I was!
No point telling me to go somewhere else then.
As this whole world is infected this immoral behavior at the moment.

If I became a Lawyer that would be a good career move. But to make good $ you need to be a devil! If you are not after $ and contribute good skills, the world's current system will skin you alive and force you into becoming a modern slave!

Anyway, I'll wake up tomorrow with some positive emotion. I have to, as I'm going to work. Time to be a professional!
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Old 2nd Mar 2010, 06:44
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crewsunite:
If I became a Lawyer that would be a good career move. But to make good $ you need to be a devil! If you are not after $ and contribute good skills, the world's current system will skin you alive and force you into becoming a modern slave!
Very said all in the nut shell!

Happy flying mate!
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 09:19
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The 4 BCF's going to ACC and the dates are :-
B-HKS (Aug 2010)
B-KAG (Sep 2010)
B-KAH (Mar 2011)
B-HKJ (May 2011)
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 14:35
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ACC also looking for B744 DEC's, USD 168K/year tax-free.
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