Few things : - Permit A/C; Medical and The Good ol' US of A :)

[italianjon]

So, three questions... Not sure whether it would be better to break them out but see how it goes.

So... I am now living in Germany but have UK Issued JAR-PPL(A)... Not flown for a few months and having massive withdrawal - need to get it back on track. So let me start with Medical: -

1) Does anyone know a Doc who could do a CAA Class 2 one evening during the week in the Portsmouth/South Hants area (Travel back from work occasionally and this would be easiest)? [Before get flamed it is amazing how out of touch you get living abroad]

2) Permits... so thought I would take the plunge and buy something. Long term (2 to 3 years) plan is to return to UK, and have wanted my own kite for a while. Was thinking about a permit? Can anyone closer to the current regs offer any info on the current rules about permit aircraft being kept in another member state... would be a G in D country!

3) Good ol' US of A - this is off on a slight tangent... planning some flights with a friend and want to rent in the US... Have looked through the forums and just want to check my current understanding is correct as the rules change lots... Basically just need to fill in the CAA form, pay my dues and pick up the "Piggy back" PPL stateside (A little over simplified - but here's the question) - I would obviously need a check out... which I assume does not need a M1-Student visa, albeit dual flight - but if I had not flown for a while and needed some extra check out time to re-polish skills, does that become flight instruction and therefore subject to Visa regs?

Cheers

IJ

[hatzflyer]

Permit a/c would need written permission to exceed the normal time limitation from the German authorities. It can be done.
It would need to come back to the UK for permit renewal each year.

Sorry don't know anything about the other subjects.

[hoodie]

You don't need a visa for an FAA Biennial Flight Review (BFR) or a renter's checkout; the visa requireemnts are invoked when you're training for "issue of a license or rating" (I think those are the words - that's the effect, anyway). Have a search on here for "BFR" "61.75" (the relevant FAR) and "piggyback" - those should give you the previous detail (and there's lots!) on the subject.

As for Docs, the CAA SRG website (Medical area, amazingly :) ) has a list of AMEs and their contact info - a search on there should find it easily enough.

[BackPacker]

1) Does anyone know a Doc who could do a CAA Class 2 one evening during the week in the Portsmouth/South Hants area (Travel back from work occasionally and this would be easiest)? [Before get flamed it is amazing how out of touch you get living abroad]

What's wrong with getting your JAA class II medical in Germany? Within JAA-land, all JAA medicals are exchangeable. I'm happy flying around with a UK-issued, JAR-FCL compliant license and a Dutch-issued, JAR-FCL compliant medical.

3) Good ol' US of A - this is off on a slight tangent... planning some flights with a friend and want to rent in the US... Have looked through the forums and just want to check my current understanding is correct as the rules change lots... Basically just need to fill in the CAA form, pay my dues and pick up the "Piggy back" PPL stateside (A little over simplified - but here's the question) - I would obviously need a check out... which I assume does not need a M1-Student visa, albeit dual flight - but if I had not flown for a while and needed some extra check out time to re-polish skills, does that become flight instruction and therefore subject to Visa regs?

Since you have a UK-issued license and the UK CAA is a little more strict than average with regards to release of private information, you have to do a little bit of paperwork (with associated fees) with both the UK CAA and the US FAA before you can pick up the piggyback license.

You do need a BFR in any case - it's the law. This will be at minimum an hour groundschool and an hour in the air. And at the end of this period the instructor has to sign you off otherwise it's not valid and more training would be required. But normally, if the instructor is happy to sign you off on your BFR, then this doubles as your renters checkout.

the visa requireemnts are invoked when you're training for "issue of a license or rating" (I think those are the words - that's the effect, anyway).

Actually the visa requirements only specify that the main reason for entering the US is education. They would not specify "license or rating" since the M-1 visa is so broad - it's nowhere near limited to aviation. So if your main reason for going to the US is to train for the BFR, you would need a visa. But since you're planning a holiday there and the training for the BFR is only incidental to that, a strong case could be made for not needing a visa.

The "license or rating" terms comes more from TSA regulations. But since you're not training for an initial airmans certificate, or for any license or rating that significantly enhances your ability to fly an airliner in a building (IR, ME, TR), you will not need a TSA clearance in this case.

[hoodie]

So if your main reason for going to the US is to train for the BFR, you would need a visa.

No, really - that's not correct. Search on here and see; the relevant TSA documentation explains all as has been discussed many times in the past, and previous threads have links to the official statements and docs so thta nobody has to rely on the "Bloke on the Internet told me" defence.

The "training for issue of a license or rating" quote comes from a TSA document as you say, and that explicitly talks about when a visa is and is not required for GA flying, and how "training" is defined relevantly - including discussion of BFRs.

Later:

Google for "Docket No. TSA-2004-19147" which will lead you to definitions of "Flying Training" and of "Recurrent Training".

This is relevant:




What is recurrent training? "Recurrent training" is defined in 49 CFR 1552.1(b) as "periodic training required under 14 CFR part 61, 121, 125, 135, or Subpart K of part 91." TSA interprets this definition to not include any flight review, proficiency check, or other check whose purpose is to review rules, maneuvers, or procedures, or to demonstrate a pilot’s existing skills on aircraft with a maximum certificated takeoff weight (MTOW) of 12,500 pounds or less, such as the flight review required under 14 CFR 61.56 or the recent flight experience requirements in 14 CFR 61.57.


The bit in bold refers to the BFR.

[S-Works]

What's wrong with getting your JAA class II medical in Germany? Within JAA-land, all JAA medicals are exchangeable. I'm happy flying around with a UK-issued, JAR-FCL compliant license and a Dutch-issued, JAR-FCL compliant medical.

The UK CAA, does not currently accept German, Lithuanian or French Class 2 medicals.

Backpacker, as I have said before in response to your posts that everything JAA is interchangeable, check before you do something. JAA is NOT a level playing field. JAA no longer exists and acceptance of existing JAA standards until EASA takes over is subject to the whim of the NAA's.

What's New | Medical | Safety Regulation (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=87&gid=246#1390)

[italianjon]

Hatzflyer - Thanks for that, need to look more into the German Regs. But at least it appears possible. Do you know anyone with prior experience of doing this that I could talk to?

Hoodie - Yep found medical - can’t actually believe I was that stupid and never thought to look there! :)

All - Thanks for comments...

So from Hoodie's quote of the relevant TSA document

What is recurrent training? "Recurrent training" is defined in 49 CFR 1552.1(b) as "periodic training required under 14 CFR part 61, 121, 125, 135, or Subpart K of part 91." TSA interprets this definition to not include any flight review, proficiency check, or other check whose purpose is to review rules, maneuvers, or procedures, or to demonstrate a pilot’s existing skills on aircraft with a maximum certificated takeoff weight (MTOW) of 12,500 pounds or less, such as the flight review required under 14 CFR 61.56 or the recent flight experience requirements in 14 CFR 61.57.

So I would interpret that as (the orange bit) to read that if I was a bit rusty, as I already have a PPL and I would therefore be reviewing rules, manoeuvres (sic ;) ), procedures and demonstrating existing skills. Therefore I would feel that I do not need a visa, even if I went over the hour BFR. (But by the sounds of things it might be easier to book 3 or 4 hours in Blighty to make sure I complete within the hour - unless I have my permit a/c here by then)

Again, thanks all for the replies... quite helpful

[hoodie]

From CFR 61.56 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;rgn=div8;view=text;node=14%3A2.0.1.1.2.1.1.35;idn o=14;sid=e25542806a282ced25b508197bb3df7e;cc=ecfr) regarding the BFR:

"a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training.".

There is no maximum stated.:ok:

[italianjon]

Cheers Hoodie... I'm well in then on the US front!

[BackPacker]

I wrote:

So if your main reason for going to the US is to train for the BFR, you would need a visa.

Perhaps I did not make my intent fully clear. What I meant was the hypothetical situation that you travel to the US exclusively to brush up your flying skills with an instructor as part of, and to eventually complete the BFR.

In that particular case it can be argued that your "main reason" to go to the US is training/education and you would need an M-1 visa.

In reality, nobody would go to the US just for an hour ground school and an hour flight time (minimum) and then hop on the plane straight back home, so this is all hypothetical.

The UK CAA, does not currently accept German, Lithuanian or French Class 2 medicals.

I knew that about the French, but not about the German class II. And knowing the Grundlichkeit of the Germans, I would have expected it to be the other way around - Germany not accepting any other states medicals.

Regardless, would it not be possible to find an AME close to where you live that can test you for, and issue, any (JAA) medical that is acceptable to the UK authorities? I mean, there are several places that do JAA, FAA and SA medicals all in one go if you need them (and are willing to pay for it), plus any other tests that you require. (They recently did some extended blood tests for me for a project I'm involved in.) So if you turn up at your German doctor and specify that you need a medical that's acceptable to the UK authorities, is there really no way that he/she would be able to provide you with that?

It seems silly to fly all the way to the UK just to pee in a pot that your German doctor apparenty doesn't have.

Regardless, bring on EASA for these kinds of silly things, as far as I'm concerned.

[S-Works]

BP, as with your JAA medical assertion, I am afraid your visa assertion is wrong.

You only need an M1 visa if you are going to the USA for the purpose of training towards a licence or rating.

A BFR does not fall into this category, therefore you could go to the USA expressly for the purpose of a BFR without the need for an M-1 visa.

[Mike Cross]

List of UK AME's here (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=65&appid=21).

I use Andrew Cairns in Petersfield

10277
Dr A W Cairns
Swan Surgery
PETERSFIELD
Hampshire
UK
GU32 3AB
Tel: 01730 264011
Fax: 01730 231093
[email protected]

[hoodie]

No misinformation in my posts, SoCal, thank you.