JAR- SEP bi-annual check & licence renewal in a different JAA state

[markkal]

I have posted a thread about 6 months ago exposing the possibility of renewing a JAA SEP rating in a JAA country that has not issued the licence in the first place.

I have had a number of answers, and all were pretty positive stating that this would not pose a major issue.

I have now had the proof that this (At least in the 2 countries involved) is not possible.

I went to take the bi-annual check with a qualified instructor in Chambery (France) and got the endorsement in my logbook.

Then, as usual, went airport authorities for the 2 years extension in my JAA (Italian) licence.

The person in charge said he could not stamp and sign a foreign licence, that I need to go the authorities of the issuing state.


I now, have an Italian licence, having done a FI (A) rating in Italy while living there for a while.

I had to relinquish my French licence that I had for 25 years as the french refused to validate my Italian JAA fto course and the CAA final exam.

The Italians could not endorse my newly acquired rating in my French JAA licence.

Therefore my only options were:
- to give up the FI(A) rating
- redo the course and exam in France
- change of licence from French to Italian

I'll be interested to know if anyone experienced these difficulties in other european JAA states,

[172driver]

Sums up the EU pretty well, methinks....:yuk:

[BackPacker]

Then, as usual, went airport authorities for the 2 years extension in my JAA (Italian) licence.

The person in charge said he could not stamp and sign a foreign licence, that I need to go the authorities of the issuing state.

What do the airport authorities have to do with this? You need a JAA examiner to sign your license and any paperwork that gets sent to the issuing authority.

Good idea to include a copy of the examiners authorization document to go with the rest of the paperwork though.

[markkal]

Unfortunately in france and italy it does not work that way. I found out at my expense.

The logbook ONLY gets signed out by the examiner, THEN the licence gets endorsed and extended ONLY by the authority.

Therefore in these 2 countries ONLY CAA officials of the ISSUING JAA LICENCE STATE extend the validity in the appropriate document case at any airport ARO, feeding the system with the test details. The system database is a national one.

[Whopity]

If you had a UK issued JAA licence you could have it signed by an examiner in any JAA State but it seems only the UK follow the JAA rules. Maybe in 2 years time, when the same law applies in all European States we will all do the same thing; unless of course each State interprets it differently!

[AdamFrisch]

I don't think it's enough to just sign the logbook. At least when I renewed my license that was not the case (but then mine had been expired, so might be different thing). I sent the checkride/exam/whatever protocol to the Swedish authorities and they renewed it no problem after having checked with the CAA to see that my UK examiner was kosher.

I'm sure you must be able to do the same thing, but you probably need a copy of something more official than just a logbook endorsement.

[S-Works]

Unfortunately in france and italy it does not work that way. I found out at my expense

Actually it does. We have an Italian pilot in our company who I sign the LPC for every year on a variety of aircraft. I also teach in Italy regularily as I am one of only 2 JAA examines on a specific turboprop.

With the Italians you have to ask first rather than assume. If you assume the walls go up.

I have posted on this before when people have come up with sage advice that any JAA examiner/Instructor can sign any other JAA states paperwork. If you ask first and sent copies of examiner authority etc. hen you won't usually have problems.

Because of the very unique nature of some of the types I fly, teach and examine on I spend a lot of time in Europe doing training and tests.

[markkal]

Hi Bose,

My mistake ( with all the confusion arising from the paperwork I missed one point).

You are right , JAA licences do provide for the examiner endorsement on it, .
Italian one reads: Stamp of examiner.
French one reads: Stamp of examiner or seal of authority.

What happened to me is that the french examiner refused to sign the document because it was not in line with the french way of doing things (Eat your hart JAA).

French examiners do not sign the licence itself but the logboog and provide you with a leaflet that you either remit to the CAA official upon endorsement or keep, some CAA folks just want to see the test in the logbook, then extend it for 2 years and update their system accordingly.

Though the french licence does have a box providing for " Examiner signature or seal of authority ", every french examiner, ( Have called 3 aeroclubs in, Annemasse Annecy and Chambery) to inquire as to substantiate what I am reporting here and to find out if i can waive the way things have been done ever since I had the JAA french licence.

All of them categorically said they would not sign my licence, not the french one, worse a foreign one !!!!

They will ONLY sign my logbook and then -as usual- I must go to the nearest ARO with my licence for endorsement. And that is the way it has been done in the past either with the former national licence, transitional one and finally JAA.



I can scan and enclose copy of latest (French) 2 year extension on my french licence I have copies of before I relinquished it:

It bears the official signature and the CAA stamp:

extension to 2009 shows:

Signature and stamp:
"Direction Aviation Civile Centre Est" ( regional CAA bureau Chambery airport, France)

extension to 2011:

Signature and stamp:
" Aviation Civile Annecy-Meythet Bureau des licences" (regional CAA bureau Annecy airport, France)

So Bose is right, and I beg him, in case he has any record of any french JAA licence extended by other endorsement than a CAA official,or any foreign JAA licence extended by a french examiner, to send me a scan even obscuring personal data, So I can go and flash it up the faces of examiners and authorities officials......

[S-Works]

Drop me a PM and will talk you through the process. The French are as difficult as the Italians at times.

If you now have an Italian licence then it is very simple. If needs be I will sign it for you as my details are registered with the Italian CAA for the conduct of skills tests and revalidation of licences.

[BackPacker]

I have to admit that my local (Dutch) examiner was a little hesitant to sign my (UK issued) license initially. But the SRG\1149 form (if that's the correct number) includes a nice "notice to examiners" on how to proceed. After I had him read this, he was happy to sign my license, and give me a copy of his authorization for inclusion in the paperwork.

I would look for similar instructions from the French or Italian CAA as appropriate, and bring these. Obviously countries have different procedures, and you've got to follow them. And the examiner too.