The official Soccer World Cup 2010 Thread

[gate4]

Charter flights, additional flights, vip flights...



A source from South African Airways, the host and home carrier for the games – although Emirates is the main airline sponsor for FIFA – has also confirmed that the airline will be operating an enhanced and expanded 24/7 schedule to make most use of planes ordinarily parked overnight to move the anticipated large number of footballing and tourist visitors across the vast country.
Other privately-owned airlines registered in South Africa have also made final preparations to increase their own capacities through short-term "wet leases" aimed at boosting the available seat numbers, although SAA was not to be drawn into this issue if they would seek assistance from their alliance partners to enter into short-term leases also. There are some indications, however, from such airlines as Lufthansa that their planes, normally arriving in the morning and returning to Europe in the evening, may operate some flights for SAA instead of just standing there idle, making money for both in the process.
Meanwhile, sources in the UAE have given the clearest indication yet that Emirates will be using their A 380s to fly their regular daily flights into South Africa to also offer more seats, which in any case will be at an absolute premium in the run up to, during, and immediately after the event, when progressively the eliminated teams and their supporters begin their journey home, while the knock-out stage goes underway and the losers make an early exit from South Africa.

[TonyWilliams]

I've heard that there will be other african airlines also providing seats in the form of charters for teams, shuttles around the southern african continent, hauling in the huge amounts of cargo, etc.

I doubt this will be connected in any way to Emirates or SAA.

[Just a job]

This is all supposing any one is going to bother coming.....
I think once the dust settles,folks are going to be saying 'world cup? Did we just have the world cup?' A very damp squib, methinks:hmm:.

Speaking to hardened football fans over here in the UK (guys who have`nt missed flying off to wherever it was being held in the last 15-20 years-that sort of fan) a lot of them are adamant they are`nt going to go to SA.
Various reasons-Crime,Flight prices,the country seems to be going in to
'Prepare for the tourists! Prepare the Rip-off machine!' mode etc etc.

Just think its going to be a bit of a let down,really....yawn

Not being negative-just think thats the way its going to go.

[Q4NVS]

A little research on the matter shows that there is an estimated 3 Million Tickets planned for SWC 2010.

These will be sold through 5 Sales Phases - Phase 1 to 3 has been concluded with Phase 4 currently underway:

The next ticketing sales phase will start on 9 February 2010 and end on 7 April 2010. During these 58 days, more than 400,000 tickets will be made available on a first-come, first-served basis via www.fifa.com/2010 or in FNB branches (in South Africa only).

From 15 April 2010 onwards, ticketing centres will be open in each host city (with two in Johannesburg) where fans will be able to buy tickets over the counter and also collect their confirmed tickets.

At the end of Phase 3, ticket sales (Phase 1 to 3 inclusive) were as follows:

Total = 1 881 268

South African Residents (1 319 963)

USA (134 320), UK (84 917), Germany (39 759), Australia (33 399), Brazil (18 773), Mexico (14 804), Canada (11 662),
Switzerland (11 045), Japan (10 558), Botswana (2 519), Mozambique (1 795), Namibia (1191) and various other smaller quantities.

There is a shortfall of approximately 196 563 in Fifa's reporting, but these are rumoured to include Hospitality and Sponsor allocations.

This already brings the number of visitors expected to 364 742, excluding the Teams themselves.

Not ALL bad me thinks :p

[grjplanes]

Yes, the ticket sales internationally isn't that bad as widely reported, but, remember that is amount of ticket sales, not necessarily individual people. 1 person can buy up to 7 tickets...I'd say on average the international visitor would probably buy 3 to 5 tickets per person.
And it doesn't just have to be international visitors filling the stadiums, if a stadium is full, who cares who it is, the more South Africans buy tickets, the more succesfull, afterall it is something we're doing for ourselves. The international tourists is a bonus for the hospitality industry.
Ofcourse we won't be seeing the hundreds of thousands extra people as predicted (maybe slightly more tourists than usually in the low May/June/July season) and not the hundreds of extra international flights and charters as we hoped. At the moment there is at least several extra flights loaded ie:
TAP Air Portugal, Iberia, British Airways, Air France, Delta, Ethiopian, Kenya Airways, Air Austral, Air Mauritius all adding capacity be it through extra flights or using larger aircraft. Aerolinas Argentinas is also to fly to JNB, for about 3 weeks, I think 14 flights between 9 and 26 June.
Together with new permanent flights from V Australia (MEL), Jet Airways (BOM), Thai Airways (BKK) and increased capacity and frequency by Malaysia Airlines (KUL) and Qatar Airways (DOH).

[lpokijuhyt]

Can't wait to see the news coverage when a naive German couple decides to get in a nice litle taxi with some of the friendly locals, only later to arrive at the stadium with only the shoes on their feet and a couple of knife wounds.

This will be the worst sports disaster in history. The world will see a crime spree like no other. I mean, what locals are going to the games? Most can't afford tickets. No public transport, lack of "suitable" accomodation, violent crime...all couple with an extreme tourist naivety about SA. Wow.:ugh:

[Q4NVS]

I mean, what locals are going to the games? Most can't afford tickets.

Quite a few if you read the Stats...
Total = 1 881 268

South African Residents (1 319 963)

[zoneout]

Come on lpokijuhyt! Thats pretty gloomy. Things are really not that bad. When last were you in a taxi? There are a lot of locals going to games. Ticket prices just came down to about R140 (I think). Sure there are lots of naive tourists, but thats the case all over the world. Its certainly not going to be crime free, but where in the world is? I dont think I am being naive, I think most of the locals are feeling pretty positive (and I am a local too). Hope you are pleasantly surprised

[tottigol20012007]

One tip to go there (for European!)
Russia was supposed to get qualified, I know federation purchased lots of tickets (for matchs, but for flights too): as they're out, they sell it: good bargains!
Good luck!

[evanb]

South African residents includes South Africans living abroad. As a South African who lives abroad I can assure you that thousands of us are coming. Most of my friends who live abroad have tickets and are booked!!!

[grjplanes]

Well I'm going to watch a game or two.
That figure of 364000 visitors isn't the only visitors, there are thousands of other tourists as well, that is just tickets sold...throughout the year tourism carries, bringing in a rough 10million tourists to South Africa a year, of which 2 to 3 million is not from the African continent...although many of the African visitors (Angola, Kenya, Ghana, Gabon etc.) is the biggers spenders, thus more important. A tourist can be from Africa, just like Cyprus' tourists is also predominantly from the continent unit they belong to themselves.
There is always expressions of security, from anyone going to any country...but hey we only need 10million visitors a year from 6 billion on the planet, those that are concerned, unprepared, scared or get blindsided by british media can just as well stay home.
I think we'll be pleasantly surprised, yes, there is very likely to be a tourist or two being robbed and the british media will have a ball of a time with that, but hey that's how we know them, and those that know better won't be influenced.
Somehow I kind of get the idea that this forum has alot more pessimistic sour people active (luckily not all)...that wants things to be wrong, and only want to see wrong and predict the worse.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Well, in South Africa, if an English tourist gets robbed and stabbed, at least the robbery benefits someone.
In England at closing time, it is just the stabbing and the violence that happens and that benefits no one.
Bring on the Brits - cash machines on legs!

[manuelvolar]

Hi Tottigol
Might be a good tip. Unfortunately, my Columbian are in the same situation (hoped to go, but...:uhoh:): I'll check if same possibility to "re-get" tickets exist: could be easier for South American guys than from Russia:)
pm me if you have more details

[Just a job]

Read today that the Bloemfontein municipality have bought 50 000 tickets to 'share them amongst the citizens'. This is where the problem lies. These
tickets are not being sold to revenue-producing overseas tourists-guess who the above-mentioned 'citizens' are? Unfortunately not 2 cents to rub between them....
So, while 84 900 odd tickets sold in the UK may sound nice, 50 000 tickets going to fans as freebies(in one district) kind of puts that into perspective.
Also large corporations have been 'pressured' into buying huge amounts of tickets which they`ll give away. To? Yep,socially acceptable/politically correct groups.Yes a few will go to customers etc but a big proportion to the 'masses'. Don`nt get me wrong,one of the great things about football is the way it crosses all social divides but don`t confuse announcements of how many tickets have been sold with the reality of quality footie fans the country will see coming over to SA. According to various news articles
they are giving these tickets away by the thousand-all in the name of that age-old African bad habit-IMAGE. The stadiums must be full,and be seen to be full!
All in my humble opinion of course;).

[proceeding outbound]

With 100 days to go before kick-off FIFA are reviewing anticipated tourist figures, originally 450 000 down to "considerably less". The main reason given - ripoff prices of hotels and airfares, also known as greed.

Where has the money come from to build the infrastucture and how will this money be recovered in the future?

What a shame as this could have been an investment in future tourism if it were not for the greed of a few.

[hardhatter]

Food for thought: besides all the tickets sold to people outside of South Africa, has anyone thought about the 'regulars' who usually visit as tourists or visiting family, who now will avoid coming to South Africa during this madness?
How much revenue is being lost by this? Including locals who will not travel to Kruger for instance, because the lodgings there have been reserved for football fans, who won't bother going to Kruger?

I think South Africa is missing out on revenue and that amount is still hidden, it will only show up at the end of this fiscal year when the books are closed for the year.

[grjplanes]

from skyscrapercity, TAM flights from Brazil.


JJ 9386 07/jun/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 A332
JJ 9387 08/jun/10 CPT 1210 GRU 1640 A332

JJ 9384 08/jun/10 GRU 1845 JNB 0840 A332
JJ 9385 09/jun/10 JNB 1120 GRU 1700 A332

JJ 9386 09/jun/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 A332
JJ 9387 10/jun/10 CPT 1210 GRU 1640 A332

JJ 9380 10/jun/10 GRU 1630 DUR 0635 A332
JJ 9381 11/jun/10 DUR 0830 GRU 1420 A332

JJ 9388 10/jun/10 GRU 1835 DUR 0835 A332
JJ 9389 11/jun/10 DUR 1050 GRU 1635 A332

JJ 9386 11/jun/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 A332
JJ 9387 12/jun/10 CPT 1210 GRU 1640 A332

JJ 9384 12/jun/10 GRU 1845 JNB 0835 A332
JJ 9385 13/jun/10 JNB 1045 GRU 1615 A332

JJ 9382 13/jun/10 GRU 1630 CPT 0520 A332
JJ 9383 14/jun/10 CPT 0730 GRU 1200 A332

JJ 9386 13/jun/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 A332
JJ 9387 14/jun/10 CPT 1205 GRU 1640 A332

JJ 9384 14/jun/10 GRU 1845 JNB 0830 A332
JJ 9385 15/jun/10 JNB 1055 GRU 1640 A332

JJ 9388 15/jun/10 GRU 1835 DUR 0835 10:00 CPT 12:30 A332
JJ 9387 16/jun/10 CPT 1400 GRU 1830 A332

JJ 9386 16/jun/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 0845 JNB 11:10 A332
JJ 9385 17/jun/10 JNB 1225 GRU 1755 A332

JJ 9382 17/jun/10 GRU 1630 CPT 0520 A332
JJ 9383 18/jun/10 CPT 0730 GRU 1200 A332

JJ 9380 20/jun/10 GRU 1630 DUR 0650 0830 JNB 0950 A332
JJ 9381 21/jun/10 JNB 1120 GRU 1650 A332

JJ 9386 20/jun/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 0815 DUR 1055 A332
JJ 9389 21/jun/10 DUR 1230 GRU 1820 A332

JJ 9386 21/jun/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 CPT 0825 DUR 1055 A332
JJ 9389 22/jun/10 DUR 1230 GRU 1815 A332

JJ 9384 22/jun/10 GRU 1845 JNB 0840 JNB 1020 CPT 1240 A332
JJ 9387 23/jun/10 CPT 1410 GRU 1835 A332

JJ 9384 23/jun/10 GRU 1835 JNB 0825 A332
JJ 9385 24/jun/10 JNB 1140 GRU 1710 A332

JJ 9388 24/jun/10 GRU 1845 DUR 0850 DUR 1050 JNB 1210 A332
JJ 9385 25/jun/10 JNB 1340 GRU 1910 A332

JJ 9388 25/jun/10 GRU 1845 DUR 0850 A332
JJ 9389 26/jun/10 DUR 1050 GRU 1640 A332

JJ 9386 26/jun/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 A332
JJ 9387 27/jun/10 CPT 1210 GRU 1640 A332

JJ 9382 27/jun/10 GRU 1630 JNB 0620 A332
JJ 9383 28/jun/10 JNB 0815 GRU 1400 A332

JJ 9386 27/jun/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 A332
JJ 9387 28/jun/10 CPT 1210 GRU 1640 A332

JJ 9384 28/jun/10 GRU 1805 JNB 0755 A332
JJ 9385 29/jun/10 JNB 1055 GRU 1625 A332

JJ 9384 30/jun/10 GRU 1835 JNB 0825 JNB 0925 CPT 1210 A332
JJ 9387 01/jul/10 CPT 1340 GRU 1810 A332

JJ 9386 02/jul/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 A332
JJ 9387 03/jul/10 CPT 1220 GRU 1650 A332

JJ 9380 03/jul/10 GRU 1630 JNB 0620 A332
JJ 9381 04/jul/10 JNB 0830 GRU 1400 A332

JJ 9386 03/jul/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 A332
JJ 9387 04/jul/10 CPT 1210 GRU 1640 A332

JJ 9386 04/jul/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 A332
JJ 9387 05/jul/10 CPT 1210 GRU 1640 A332

JJ 9386 05/jul/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 JJ 330 CPT 0850 JNB 1045 A332
JJ 9385 06/jul/10 JNB 1230 GRU 1755 A332

JJ 9386 06/jul/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 A332
JJ 9387 07/jul/10 CPT 1210 GRU 1640 A332

JJ 9384 11/jul/10 GRU 1855 JNB 0845 A332
JJ 9385 12/jul/10 JNB 1210 GRU 1740 A332

JJ 9384 12/jul/10 GRU 1845 JNB 0830 A332
JJ 9385 13/jul/10 JNB 1120 GRU 1640 A332

JJ 9386 13/jul/10 GRU 1845 CPT 0735 A332
JJ 9387 14/jul/10 CPT 1210 GRU 1640 A332

[grjplanes]

Also Aerolinas Argentinas flights from EZE:


EXTENDED SCHEDULE INFORMATION 18FEB10-25JAN11 0001-2359
BUENOS AIRES-JOHANNESBURG
EFF DISC MTWTFSS BRD OFF DEP ARR FLIGHT EQU
08JUN10 13JUN10 .2....7 EZE JNB 1700#0645 AR1946 744
18JUN10 18JUN10 ....5.. EZE JNB 1700#0645 AR1946 744
26JUN10 26JUN10 .....6. EZE JNB 1700#0645 AR1946 744
08JUN10 13JUN10 .2....7 EZE JNB 1800#0745 AR1948 744
18JUN10 18JUN10 ....5.. EZE JNB 1800#0745 AR1948 744
23JUN10 23JUN10 ..3.... EZE JNB 1800#0745 AR1946 744
14JUN10 19JUN10 1....6. EZE JNB 2200#1145 AR1946 744
24JUN10 24JUN10 ...4... EZE JNB 2200#1145 AR1946 744
14JUN10 19JUN10 1....6. EZE JNB 2300#1245 AR1948 744
24JUN10 24JUN10 ...4... EZE JNB 2300#1245 AR1948 744
EXTENDED SCHEDULE INFORMATION 18FEB10-25JAN11 0001-2359
JOHANNESBURG-BUENOS AIRES
EFF DISC MTWTFSS BRD OFF DEP ARR FLIGHT EQU
09JUN10 14JUN10 1.3.... JNB EZE 0940 1530 AR1947 744
19JUN10 19JUN10 .....6. JNB EZE 0940 1530 AR1947 744
09JUN10 14JUN10 1.3.... JNB EZE 1030 1620 AR1949 744
19JUN10 19JUN10 .....6. JNB EZE 1030 1620 AR1949 744
24JUN10 27JUN10 ...4..7 JNB EZE 1030 1620 AR1947 744
15JUN10 20JUN10 .2....7 JNB EZE 1430 2020 AR1947 744
25JUN10 25JUN10 ....5.. JNB EZE 1430 2020 AR1947 744
15JUN10 20JUN10 .2....7 JNB EZE 1530 2120 AR1949 744
25JUN10 25JUN10 ....5.. JNB EZE 1530 2120 AR1949 744

[Der absolute Hammer]

Wowsers....that is about 45 flights @400 per flight =18,000 people and if each one spends $1,000 in SA that is $18,000,000
The cost of he new stadiums and refurbishing the old ones , according to F2010 website is:
$2,222,000,000.

It's not as simple as that and we shall never know the reality. The gvt will massage the figures.
People I know have been telephoned today to ask them please if they would like to come to Kruger Park in June/July. They had been told no chance at all. The bookings are not coming in from overseas. Anyway, these people will not go now. They have no wish to be even in the same game park as football fans, always seen as drunk and not friendly to ecology. Who would want to holiday anywhere near them? Local tourism will possibly be dead in June July.
South African tourist industry has made a mistake in judging the English and the Germans. You see, these people will not come in great numbers if they know that this is rip off tourist South Africa. If South Africa later tries to lower the prices at the last moment, these people will not change their decision not to come. They will say 'hard lines, rip off artist hotels and airlines, go suffer!'


South Africa's projected bill for hosting the 2010 World Cup has ballooned to over four times the original cost.
Figures released by the organising committee on Wednesday put the total cost at US$1.59 billion, far in excess of the original estimate of US$295m.

This is from the BBC dated October 18th, 2006! That makes the real cost of the stadiums just about eight times the original estimate. That is a little bit of a bad budget hole.

[Just a job]

What 'Hammer' says sounds true. Read that a particular company had the 'rights'to booking 3 or 4 of the main camps in the Park during June/July with ordinary South Africans not allowed to book in the Park during this period. What a joke-turns out they`ve had 29 bookings for all 3 or 4 of these camps! Clowns. I still maintain this is going to be a huge let-down and i`m sure people involved in Olympics and other large events are watching this farce and thinking 'never again,never again':O.This whole thing was political,probably along the lines of 'let Africa have it and lets get it over with so we can go back to letting properly-organised countries` host arguably the worlds premier sports event'. I think any airline or charter company that gets exess aircraft in for this period is going to burn their fingers....

[grjplanes]

Few more changes and extras:

As per 12FEB10 GDS timetable display, El Al is to operate Boeing 747-400 instead of 767 on Tel Aviv – Johannesburg route from 25JUN10 and 02JUL10, replacing 767-200ER

Air Austral is tripling its capacity on 2 weekly St Denis de la Reunion – Johannesburg route during World Cup 2010. From 10JUN10 to 15JUL10, it is to operate 364-seater Boeing 777-200ER instead of 118-seater Boeing 737-500.

In addition, there is minor schedule change during this period. Schedule as follows:

UU371 RUN0750 – 1000JNB 772 7
UU341 RUN1120 – 1330JNB 772 4

UU372 JNB1150 – 1715RUN 772 7
UU342 JNB1520 – 2045RUN 772 4

TAP Portugal is operating extra services to Johannesburg during World Cup. Schedule as follows:

TP2283 LIS1805 – 0535+1JNB 332 09JUN10
TP2271 LIS1905 – 0635+1JNB 343 11JUN10/12JUN10/10JUL10
TP2273 LIS0950 – 2120JNB 332 13JUN10
TP2271 LIS1905 – 0635+1JNB 343 5 18JUN10 – 09JUL10
TP2273 LIS0950 – 2120JNB 332 6 19JUN10 – 10JUL10
TP2287 LIS1805 – 0550+1MPM0720+1 – 0830+1JNB 343 11JUL10

TP2283 JNB0705 – 0820MPM0945 – 1955LIS 332 10JUN10
TP2272 JNB0805 – 1745LIS 343 67 12JUN10 – 19JUN10
TP2272 JNB0805 – 1745LIS 343 6 20JUN10 – 10JUL10
TP2272 JNB0805 – 1745LIS 343 11JUL10
TP2270 JNB2250 – 0830+1LIS 332 6 19JUN10 – 17JUL10
TP2270 JNB2250 – 0830+1LIS 332 13JUN10
TP2287 JNB1000 – 1940LIS 343 12JUL10

From 28MAR10, Kenya Airways is increasing Nairobi – Johannesburg service from 21 to 22 weekly. During World Cup in June/July 2010, it is expanding capacity on this route to meet the increasing demand.

Details as follows:

KQ760 NBO0715 – 1025JNB EQV D
KQ762 NBO0910 – 1220JNB EQV D
KQ768 NBO1200 – 1510JNB 738 7 28MAR10-
KQ764 NBO2040 – 2350JNB EQV D

KQ765 JNB0040 – 0545NBO EQV D
KQ761 JNB1115 – 1620NBO EQV D
KQ763 JNB1340 – 1845NBO EQV D
KQ769 JNB1600 – 2105NBO 738 7 28MAR10-

World Cup Period Planned Aircraft operation from 06JUN10 to 11JUL10:
KQ760/761
738 06JUN – 07JUN / 14JUN / 16JUN / 18JUN / 20JUN – 23JUN / 25JUN / 02JUL – 03JUL / 06JUL – 11JUL
767 08JUN / 11JUN – 13JUN / 17JUN / 19JUN / 26JUN – 01JUL / 04JUL – 05JUL / 12JUL – 13JUL
772 09JUN – JUN / 15JUN / 24JUN

KQ762/763
73W 06JUN
738 07JUL / 09JUL / 16JUL
767 07JUN / 16JUN – 17JUN / 21JUN / 27JUN / 02JUL / 05JUL – 06JUL / 08JUL / JUL – 11JUL / 15JUL / 17JUL
772 08JUN – 15JUN / 18JUN – 20JUN / 22JUN – 26JUN / 28JUN – 01JUL / 03JUL – 04JUL / 12JUL – 14JUL

KQ768/769 738 (Sunday Only)

KQ764/765 (KQ765 departs JNB the following day)
738 06JUN – 07JUN / 14JUN – 19JUN / 21JUN – 23JUN / 29JUN – 02JUL / 05JUL – 17JUL
767 20JUN / 24JUN / 26JUN – 28JUN / 04JUL / 11JUL – 13JUL
772 08JUN – 13JUN / 25JUN / 03JUL

[grjplanes]

Delta's additional:


DELTA is to operate extra Atlanta – Johannesburg NONSTOP service during the Soccer World Cup in South Africa in June and July 2010.
The increased service will also operates with Boeing 777-200LR. Schedule as follows:

DL200 ATL1925 – 1705+1JNB 77L D
DL201 JNB2020 – 0645+1ATL 77L D
DL102 ATL2120 – 1900+1JNB 77L 135 09JUN10 – 14JUN10
DL102 ATL2110 – 1850+1JNB 77L 19JUN10
DL102 ATL2105 – 1845+1JNB 77L 22JUN10
DL102 ATL2120 – 1900+1JNB 77L 11JUL10
DL103 JNB2100 – 0725+1ATL 77L 246 10JUN10 – 15JUN10
DL103 JNB2055 – 0720+1ATL 77L 20JUN10
DL103 JNB2100 – 0725+1ATL 77L 23JUN10/12JUL10

[CJ750]

There was an article in the travel section of the Saturday Star last weekend that said all but ONE camp (Skukuza) had been given back to Parks Board by the World Cup People . Now what has happened to all the South Africans with Confirmed bookings that were kicked out of the park for this period.

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[126,7]

London - Danny Jordaan, the 2010 South Africa World Cup supremo, said the future use of two stadiums built specially for the tournament hinged on their also becoming rugby union grounds.

"We need to make the stadiums viable... The central issue is whether rugby will move to the new stadiums. I think they will. Their stadiums were built in the 1950s," Jordaan, speaking in London, said Thursday.

Durban's Moses Mabhida Stadium, which has been built at a cost of 3.1 billion rand (413 million dollars) is right next door to the Kings Park home of the Sharks Super 14 rugby union team.
But the Sharks are so far showing no inclination to move, sparking fears the Mabhida Stadium may be unviable economically once the World Cup is over, leaving the city with an expensive white elephant.

There are similar concerns in Cape Town, where a new stadium in Green Point has cost an estimated one billion rand more than its Durban counterpart.

But the Stormers play at the Newlands ground, the home of rugby in Cape Town for over a hundred years, and the Western Province Rugby Union has maintained that is where the team will be staying after the football World Cup.

"These are emotional debates," Jordaan said. "The debate about the 'new' Wembley took five years in London.

"In Cape Town and Durban, the debate is still on." - Sapa-AFP



The article above was at IOL: News for South Africa and the World (http://www.iol.co.za)

[evanb]

Quote from Hammer:

Wowsers....that is about 45 flights @400 per flight =18,000 people and if each one spends $1,000 in SA that is $18,000,000
The cost of he new stadiums and refurbishing the old ones , according to F2010 website is:
$2,222,000,000.

Lets try this math with the official figures from FIFA:

Expected foreign tourists (I admit this is high): 445000
Average spend per day: R1750
Average days per person: 16
Total foreign spending: R12.46 billion

Add to this the legacy in terms of improved infrastructure, the extra domestic spending by South Africans, TV revenue (FIFA sold it for EUR 1 billion), and the 1.5 billion people who will watch it on TV and its probably pretty good!

[Der absolute Hammer]

Hi !
It is of course impossible to argue about such hypothetical figures, days of stay, spending, spending outside SA, etc.
The big money-I think-is in TV. FIFA have made billions from the writes for TV but what has SA reality been paid so that FIFA can 'sell' the TV to the world? Not a lot I will bet you?
FIFA will clear up big time. I heard that when the cup goes to England in 2014(?) that FIFA has already agreed with British government that no employee of FIFA (even a sweeper) will have to file a UK tax return or be liable for UK tax for the year of the cup. A very rich and powerful organisation which benefits at the expense of the host country?
Sure thing, no FIFA/no world cup. But it is a greedy beast and it is French of course which is amusing and ironic. I hope the show will be pretty good and even if it is not, you will read that it is. Mind you, I am going away for those four weeks. All those guys from the Argentine and Brazil coming here and all their women over there. There must be a tango or a salsa somewhere in waiting?

As for any legacy of infra structure, please continue to be so very humurous. The Mad Hatter's Tea Party? Jam tomorrow, jam yesterday but no jam today!
This is Africa. We don't do infra structure!

[evanb]

I agree that the number of visitors is possibly a little high. The data on days and spending are in-line with research conducted on other events in South Africa (cricket and rugby world cups) and other soccer world cups. These numbers are probably an understatement since a significant number of people stay for all 6 weeks (mostly media over 10000, officials 500, etc).

FIFA do own the World Cup and the TV rights and essentially the country pays FIFA an amount in order to host the World Cup. FIFA does provide a fair amount of the TV rights to the local organizing committee. Even bigger than the TV rights are the corporate sponsorships which are also shared since some are local sponsors (i.e. FNB) while others are global (i.e. Coca Cola).

In terms of infrastructure here are some projects which will leave a legacy - these are just some of the government funded projects off the top of my head (never mind the private sector investments):
- Johannesburg airport: new central terminal, additions to international departures, new international pier, new parking deck
- Cape Town airport: new central terminal, new parking deck
- Durban: new airport altogether
- Major public transport: Gautrain, Johannesburg BRT, Cape Town IRT, Port Elizabeth BRT, redevelopment of Cape Town Station
- Major roads: redevelopment of Koeberg interchange on N1 in Cape Town, redevelopment of Hospital bend interchange on N2 in Cape Town, multiple highway capacity increases in Johannesburg

By the way, your comment on the UK in 2014 is rubbish since the 2014 World Cup has not even been awarded and Australia and the US are favorites to win the bid. Furthermore, such a tax exemption would be illegal under European law.

[Cardinal Puff]

Gautrain was never intended to be part of the FWC development.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Well, I am sorry to say that I heard rubbish. I make apologies for getting 2014 so confused with 2018. But here, for the edification of your expertise on European tax law are the following. please fogive me if this was read in a totally unreliable source. Such is all we poor mortals have to rely upon.

World Cup 2018 officials would nutmeg UK tax - Accountancy Age (http://www.accountancyage.com/accountancyage/news/2255105/fifa-2018-officials-nutmeg-uk)

World Cup 2018: Gordon Brown makes £300m pledge to Fifa over England bid - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup-2010/teams/england/6820343/World-Cup-2018-Gordon-Brown-makes-300m-pledge-to-Fifa-over-England-bid.html)

[farmpilot]

and will be in Brazil

[evanb]

There is a difference, FIFA are exempt from taxes on profits from the World Cup in South Africa too, as they were in Germany. This is in the host contract. But you were talking about payroll taxes on FIFA staff which is a different issue and worth a lot more money. On that issue, the article you speak about is incorrect. Germany tried to do this in 2006 and the EU Commission didn't allow it. EU law doesn't allow one to discriminate rates of personal (not corporate) taxes between people based on anything other than income.

The other comment is correct, 2014 is in Brazil, UK never applied. It has applied alongside the US, Australia and Russia (and some others) for both 2018 and 2022.

If these tournaments are not worth it why do so many countries want to host it? Why do Australia still do it after so many major sporting events in the last few years (Olympics, Commonwealth Games, Rugby World Cup, F1 Grand Prix, etc)? Is there something they have not worked out? Yes, it costs lots of money, but it has a long term benefit.

The Gautrain was originally planned and promised for the 2006 bid. Part of what made the bid impressive was the commitment to build the Gautrain and various other things independent on the outcome of the bid.

[Capetonian]

This World Cup is bad for South Africa for many reasons. Underneath all the hype hides the greed and the manipulation of facts and statistics.

Even if it all goes well, and that's a huge 'if', it's unlikely that any more than a small fraction of the money coming into the country will filter through to benefit the most needy. Most of it will benefit the large hotel chains, tour operators, and the airlines. The only permanent benefit may be an improvement of the road infrastructure in and around the venues, and we've paid for that with the massive inconvenience and disruption to traffic flows over the last couple of years. I'm excluding the Gautrain, as someone else has already pointed out, it wasn't foreseen as part of the World Cup planning, and its pricing places it way out of reach of the masses, so it will do nothing to relieve traffic congestion.

Security, health, and education for the poor are not going to see great benefits, and it is doubtful whether there will be any real improvement in mass transportation.

The greed and so called 'price gouging' practised by the hotel chains, airlines, and private individuals looking to cash in on the opportunity have already left a bad taste. I hope, and expect, that many of them will regret this as they will be left with unsold capacity which they will at the last minute have to dump and take a loss. Good. I think we'll see a lot of those extra flights mentioned by previous posters suddenly disappearing from the schedules.

If there is no serious crime affecting visitors, it may well improve the image of South Africa. I only hope that the measures which are supposedly being put in place will be effective, but I am not too confident that this will be so. This feeling is shared by many outsiders to whom I've spoken, who quite simply feel that SA is 'too dangerous' for them to go to. Whilst I don't agree, I do sympathise.

As someone with absolutely no interest whatsoever in football, in fact I have a profound dislike for the culture surrounding it, I will be taking a great interest in how this saga unfolds. I hope my pessimism is proved wrong.

[Der absolute Hammer]

5:07pm UK, Tuesday February 23, 2010
Emma Hurd, Africa correspondent
Fifa has admitted that South Africa is not yet ready to host the 2010 World Cup, with just over three months to go before kick off.

World Cup 2010: South Africa Is Not Yet Ready Fifa Admits | World News | Sky News (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/World-Cup-2010-South-Africa-Is-Not-Yet-Ready-Fifa-Admits/Article/201002415557937)

But it will all come right in the end with the right muti.

[Capetonian]

One might expect that three months before the event the country would not be ready to host it. "If the question is: 'Could we host the World Cup tomorrow morning?' the answer is no," Mr Valke said. That would be an unreasonable expectation.

The pertinent question is 'will they be able to host it when it happens?' My guess is yes, but with some logistical problems which will be worked around, and on the surface all will appear to be more or less as planned. South Africa and its citizens have always been good at covering things up and 'making a plan', and this will be no different.

I still think it's bad news though and for a number of reasons I will be staying well away from SA between the end of May and the end of July.

[CJ750]

What :confused:nothing about emergency service personnel refusing to attend to people without armed guards because they live in fear of being raped. This happened west of johannesburg last night.

What does FIFA who is the current government of South Africa say to this :sad::sad::sad:

[Cardinal Puff]

The Gautrain was originally planned and promised for the 2006 bid. Part of what made the bid impressive was the commitment to build the Gautrain and various other things independent on the outcome of the bid.

So they're even more behind schedule than we thought?:}

[proceeding outbound]

A friend of mine was stabbed whilst in Cape Town a couple of days ago and left for dead..............for his mobile phone. Emergency services reached him just in time before he bled to death.

Yes, I can see the World Cup is going to be a great success:D.

At least the emergency services are good.

[Capetonian]

This is the way many people see South Africa, and with a 'leader' like Zuma, supporting a racist idiot like Julius Malema, it's easy to see why we are the laughing stock of the world.

http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/5909/saflag0001.th.jpg (http://img532.imageshack.us/i/saflag0001.jpg/)

[Ibhayi]

Firstly, the Gautrain was never promised to be ready for the World Cup. That was a myth put out by the press. The government said they hoped it would be ready and the contracts awarded to Bombela never included it being ready. There was a R150 million bonus option for parts of it to be operational which the Gauteng government declined to take.

I think we all need some good news on SA.

Cape Town under the DA:

Economic growth and employment

As mayor, Zille has presided over rapid growth and development in the City of Cape Town. Gross geographic product (GGP) increased by over 12% - from R116.6 billion in 2005 under the ANC, to R130.77 billion in 2007 - two years into her tenure. During this time unemployment also declined from 20.7% to 17.9%.[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Zille#cite_note-Bela-23)
Under Zille, the city's debt was also cut by nearly R1 billion, which allowed capital for service delivery to be increased by 15%.[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Zille#cite_note-Bela-23)
[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Helen_Zille&action=edit&section=11)] Crime and urban renewal

Crime has declined by 90% in the city's CBD over a period of five years, thanks to ongoing collaboration between the DA-led municipality, the police service, metro police, local businesses and the Cape Town Partnership (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Town_Partnership). As a consequence, 3 500 residents have moved back into inner city departments, and there has been a 9.5% growth in fixed investment in Cape Town

[farmpilot]

As I understand a limited service between ORT and Sandton will be operational by the 6th of June

[Capetonian]

From this morning's newspapers

Diplomats, celebrities and wealthy businessmen are scrambling to secure personal bodyguards for the Soccer World Cup, the Sunday Times reported.

The newspaper said that requests from across the world peaked after last week's 100-day celebrations to the tournament's kick-off and this would see several top-end security specialists being fully booked.

Dynamic Alternatives co-director, Gavriel Schneider, said clients making requests for the service included executives, individuals and groups from the financial, sporting, industrial and mining sectors.

Their requests ranged from around the clock protection to escorts to and from stadiums and tourist destinations.

He said it would cost about R3 000 per day for the services of a bodyguard.

Chris Beukes, head of TSU Protection Services, said his staff would be working around the clock during the tournament.

"It starts at the airport, picking up clients and escorting them throughout the visit," he said.

Tommy Meiring, a co-director of Legosec security, said his bookings almost tripled after the 100-day celebrations.

He said some foreigners have asked about terror attacks and others requested overnight duty services at hotels.


Shots fired at Jo'burg World Cup commuter buses
(AFP) – 21 hours ago

JOHANNESBURG — Shots were fired at Johannesburg's new public buses introduced for the World Cup on Friday but passengers escaped unharmed, police said on Saturday.

"Four occupants in a sedan shot at a BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) bus last night (Friday) but no one was injured," police spokesman captain Katlego Mogale said.

Friday's shooting was the third such incident involving the BRT.

Days after its launch last August a policeman and a passenger were shot on a bus travelling to Soweto township on the outskirts of Johannesburg.

A third passenger was injured in March.

The new public transport system connecting Soweto and Johannesburg has angered the mafia-like minibus taxi industry that dominates the city's commuter routes.

The taxis fear they will be put out of business by the sleek modern buses. Protests by taxi operators often turn violent, while rival fleets have waged deadly turf wars over their routes.

President Jacob Zuma had to delay the BRT's launch to try to win over the taxi industry, preventing the use of the buses at the 2010 World Cup curtainraiser Confederations Cup tournament last June.

Since then, the government has pressed ahead, seeing the buses as the first step in overhauling the nation's public transport.

[Capetonian]

Kulula cabin crew are clearly keeping their inflight humour fresh.


On a recent flight from Cape Town, the safety instructions included this gem: "In the unlikely event of Bafana Bafana winning the World Cup or the cabin being depressurised, oxygen masks will drop from the ceiling."

[PAXboy]

evanb
If these tournaments are not worth it why do so many countries want to host it? Why do Australia still do it after so many major sporting events in the last few years (Olympics, Commonwealth Games, Rugby World Cup, F1 Grand Prix, etc)? Is there something they have not worked out? Yes, it costs lots of money, but it has a long term benefit.
The reason? Politics and Money.

The politicians know that the voters want the WC/Olympics in their own country due to the common mis-perception that it is an honour. They also know that thousands of companies and people (themselves included) will benefit financially from the event. They also know that thousands of people (themselves NOT included) will have to pay for it and be lied to and that they will never find out the truth. That is the same whether it's the UK or ZA.

On the point about regular visitors not travelling during the games consider also, a friend of mine in CPT told me last August that her son and all his chums had 'booked' the 'Hotel of Mother' and were going to be sleeping half a dozen to a room. Their flights were already booked but they won't show up in the hotel bookings.

Capetonian Re: Kulula = :ok:

[gate4]

Anyone got details on the Thomas Cook Charters, or any other charters? What aircraft will LAN use... A340's? Aeromexico B777 perhpas?


Moore pointed out that a large number of Latin American airlines, including AeroMexico, LAN Chile and TAM from Brazil, are putting on special charter flights during the World Cup.


Surprisingly, with 13 European countries taking part in the tournament, few airlines from the region are adding flights to their schedules, apart from Air France.


The airline recently introduced the 538-seat Airbus A380 on the Paris-Johannesburg route, which it will use for its daily flights. During the tournament, Air France will add an extra three flights a week using a Boeing 777.


The other big European carriers, Lufthansa and British Airways, will not be adding any additional capacity to their already extensive flights. However, travel group Thomas Cook has been given the rights to operate charter flights from London .


Emirates, the official World Cup airline, has not added any additional capacity.


“We have seen good demand over the World Cup but as yet there has been no need to add extra flights,” said Fouad Caunhye, Emirates regional manager in southern Africa.


Australian carriers have not added aircraft to their South African routes. Qantas will add a special flight from Melbourne to Johannesburg only on May 26, when Australian fans can join their team on their way to the World Cup.


BusinessDay - Few airlines add flights for World Cup (http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=95901)

[keitaidenwa]

Kulula.com marketing strikes gold:


A South African budget airline has pulled its tongue-in-cheek advert after a Fifa complaint that it infringed its trademark during the 2010 World Cup.
kulula.com's ad described the firm as the "Unofficial National Carrier of the You-Know-What". It also had pictures of stadiums, vuvuzelas and national flags.
But Fifa said the airline could not use the symbols - even the word "South Africa", kulula.com's spokeswoman said.
Fifa, however, said the images taken together were "ambush marketing".
'Pushing boundary'
"For the record, FIFA did not tell Kulula that they could not use soccer balls, or the word 'South Africa', or the Cape Town stadium, or the national flag or vuvuzelas," said a statement from football's world governing body.
It was the combination of these elements which were banned, the statement said.
Fifa said the advert breached South African law "by seeking to gain a promotional benefit for the kulula brand by creating an unauthorised association with the 2010 FIFA World Cup".

BBC News - Fifa orders South African airline to drop 'ambush' ad (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8576220.stm)

They may have been forced to pull out the ad, but hitting the news they already got more visibility anyways :ok:

[Carrier]

Well done Kulula.com! They have certainly received a lot of excellent advertising and even more sympathy from those who are fed up with abusive organisations such as FIFA and the Olympics.

In 1988 the Olympic bullies tried it with Olympic Pizza in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Fortunately the restaurant in question had been in business since the fifties, before the COC/IOC had trade marked the term "Olympic". Judge told the COC/IOC to get lost and pay the restaurant's costs. One of the funnier statements at the hearing was the restaurant owner (a Greek) asking why they were not suing the Greek government to change the name of Mount Olympus.

Here's a link to an interesting article on ambush advertising for the recent Vancouver Olympics: 'Olympic ambush' (http://www.financialpost.com/m/story.html?id=2529181&s=Related+Topics&is=Olympic%20Games&it=Topic&p=2)

[gate4]

The Lufthansa A380 will celebrate its first long-haul flight in style with an array of special guests on board: The special flight operated by Lufthansa’s new flagship on Sunday, 6 June, will be carrying the German team to the 2010 World Cup in South Africa. The A380, with flight number LH2010 on the Frankfurt-Johannesburg route, leaves Frankfurt Airport
at 20.30 hours and will arrive in Johannesburg at 8.15 hours local time. In addition to the team, DFB trainers and assistants, around 150 soccer fans will also be making the journey on the A380.

Lufthansa A380 flies German soccer team to Soccer World Cup | Travelwires.com (http://www.travelwires.com/wp/2010/04/lufthansa-flies-german-soccer-team-to-soccer-world-cup-on-a380/)

[gate4]

Now the Private Jets!

As of mid-March, at least 100 aircraft had booked to arrive at the company’s Lanseria FBO during the tournament, and another 50 at its Cape Town facility. ExecuJet Aviation South Africa managing director Ettore Poggi is expecting many more to knock on his door in the next few weeks. To date, most of the early bookings have come from the U.S., South America and Europe, he said.

ExecuJet Ready for World (Cup) Stage: AINonline (http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/execujet-ready-for-world-cup-stage-24755/)

[Goldfish Jack]

Air Berlin ops 14 charter flts into the country at various dates over the World Cup with A330s

[Capetonian]

Surprisingly large amount of capacity left on flights in/out of SA during this period. The whole thing seems to be falling flat.

[CJ750]

Where are they going to park all these aircraft. The apron at Lanseria is already full on a daily basis:ugh::ugh::ugh:.

[gate4]

THAI will operate the route with Boeing 777-200ER aircraft configured with 292 seats - 30 in Royal Silk Class and 262 in Economy Class.
Flight TG703 departs Bangkok at 01:15 to arrive in Johannesburg at 07:30 the same day. The return flight, TG704 departs Johannesburg at 13:40 to arrive in Bangkok at 05:55 the following day.


Thai Airways to Resume Flights to Johannesburg on 2 June 2010 (http://www.asiatraveltips.com/news10/125-ThaiAirways.shtml)

[Der absolute Hammer]

Tutu. He say........Reported in Guardian. May 17th.

"I believe people live on more than just bread. We will be able to say we have done it. It is the first time this prestigious tournament has been held on the African continent, and therefore important for who we are, for our self-esteem as a continent and as South Africans. Infrastructure that has been developed will benefit us well after the World Cup has come and gone."

[Capetonian]

This is to inform you that your email have been selected for a cash prize of $1,400,000.00 in the SAFA/World Cup Lottery draw held in Cape Town.

The selection process was carried out through random selection in our Computerized email selection system (E.S.S) from a database of over 21,000 emails addresses drawn from which you were selected.

Please contact our claims agent:

Mr. Ralph Lloyd
Email: [email protected]

Provide him with the information below:

1.Name.2.Address.3.Nationality.4.Age.5.Occupation.6.Phone/Fax.,Amount won.

Yours faithfully,

Margaret Sisulu (Mrs.)

I am quite sure that neither this nice lady nor the gentleman who is acting as claims agent would want any abusive or windup emails sent to [email protected].

[Glonass]

Anyone got details on the Thomas Cook Charters, or any other charters? What aircraft will LAN use... A340's? Aeromexico B777 perhpas?LAN Airlines will use the B767 for all their charters.

See you in Jo'burg :ok:

[cigar]

^^ Any schedules around for the LAN flights to South Africa?

[Capetonian]

I don't see any LAN flights (if you mean LAN Chile?).

AR are operating a series of flights with the 744, from 08JUN - 12JUL between EZE and JNB.

[Glonass]

Any schedules around for the LAN flights to South Africa?Here it is: http://ccl.cl/acuo

[cigar]

Great, thanks!

[ByAirMail]

The booking numbers are well below expectation, and if we were hoping for last minute booking, it might not realize with news like this spreading around the world 2 weeks before kick off.

Amnesty report slams SA: News24: South Africa: News (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Amnesty-report-slams-SA-20100527)

[ByAirMail]

How can they get it so wrong? This is only one stadium. It will cost R17 mil. a year in the upkeep of the stadium in Durban alone, no wonder the Natal Sharks Rugby Board said "No Thank You"

Soccer City R1bn over budget: Sport: Sport: 2010 World Cup: Tournament News (http://www.sport24.co.za/Soccer/WorldCup/TournamentNews/Soccer-City-R1bn-over-budget-20100303)

[Beta Light]

FIFA is a business, not the welfare. The South Africa tax payer is going to be paying for a long time. Danny Jordaan and his lieutenants are the only one's smiling.

World Cup 2010: Fifa forced to give South Africa extra cash to ensure tournament ready - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup-2010/teams/england/7710414/World-Cup-2010-Fifa-forced-to-give-South-Africa-extra-cash-to-ensure-tournament-ready.html)

[Cardinal Puff]

Looks like the Colombian team have already had a little taste of what the future holds. Hotel staff went through their kit and helped themselves to cash.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Perhaps now would be the time, in the interests of true racial harmony, to start a thread entitled:

'African Antics.'

The word 'African' in this case referring to the continent.
Antics in English means goings on.
So it is quite permissible hyperbole?

[Capetonian]

Fifa have had to inject a further £67 million into the 2010 World Cup in South Africa to ensure the hosts are ready for the start of the tournament.

Anyone who thinks that this is going to ensure readiness is living in a fools' paradise. I am sure that many hands are being rubbed in glee and a few nice new Maseratis will soon be driving around with non-reflective gentlemen at the wheel.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Some might suggest perhaps that there are no more nice Maseratis than there are non reflective gentlemen.

[CaptainGondwe]

As an African born pilot who lives abroad but often visits Africa, I find it disturbing how we are all so negative about the World Cup. I have taken leave and will be watching 3 games in South Africa and I am sure a wonderful world cup will be hosted but if everyone is so pessimistic we are setting ourselves up for trouble. We should unite as Africans and try and show the world that we are capable of hosting such a spectacle.

[Trossie]

Happy 100th Birthday South Africa!
(Union of South Africa formed on 31 May 1910.)

Wouldn't it be nice to have Air Force fly-pasts to celebrate, maybe even some aeroplanes in a '100' formation? (It has been done... I know, I was in it!)

That would be a very nice 'kick off' to the forthcoming World Cup... (and a very nice excuse for someone to fly some aeroplanes and the public to enjoy seeing them!):)

[ByAirMail]

CaptGondwe,
It's not not a question of being negative, it's a question of priority's. I am an African, my family have been here for almost 400 years. My passport says I am African and the European Community will not give me a passport as they say I am not European. As you say you only visit Africa occasionally I take it you don't live in Africa, although your location say Malawi.

Let's forget about the "touchy, touchy, feelly, feelly" niceness. The country and the continent have bigger issues to worry about then a Soccer World Cup that will bring wealth to FIFA and a selected few, while dragging the tax payer deeper down. The Soccer World Cup will NOT generate LONG TERM job's, or make a profit. Olympics and World Cup's are for prestige and bragging rights for developed country's , we need school's, hospitals, teachers, doctors and the like's.

If you watch the movie Invictus you will see the hopes and the dream that Pres. Nelson Mandela had, and that we all shared with him. Sadly today they are singing "bring my machine gun" and "kill the farmer" from the public stage, not good for nation building or for the continent. The fact that Bafana Bafana did not qualify for the World cup, and is only there as the host nation, don't help a lot to motivate me to support them.
I am the kind of guy that if you want my support it have to be on merit and performance.

May the best team win and may Africa find something more substantial to build our hopes on after this corporate event that is the Soccer World Cup.

[Capetonian]

ByAirMail : You hit the nail on the head there, pretty much as I said in posts 33 and 35.

[porra]

Can't you guys just put all the politics aside for just 30 days and enjoy the greatest sporting event on earth hosted in our country!:D

[ByAirMail]

porra, it's not just politics, it's principles and responsibility. "Yes, I know it's blood diamonds, but I cannot resist the glitter."

[Der absolute Hammer]

Sure - politics aside-

It's a complete rip off of the South African tax payer for the benefit of, among others, FIFA and Julius Malema, whose construction corruption needs little introduction. The national football team is not good enough to qualify. FIFA have described the SA medical disaster cup plan as a disaster and the longer term benefits to the infrastructure are open to questioning especially when you consider the number of unemployed young men who will suddenly be dumped upon the urban environment.
Forgive me please for being somewhat jaded-and all that aside-professional football is a noisesome prostituted affair where no man's team is his own country and the fans of which, in general, seem to behave as though they belonged in camps rather than being allowed to inflict themselves upon the public victims of their anti social behaviour.
Perhaps there will be sufficient Eskom power cuts and cold winter weather to take the steam out of the alcohol fuelled excesses.

[Capetonian]

Porra :If only it were about sport, then yes (personally I wouldn't enjoy it as I loathe football and everything that surrounds it) perhaps some people could enjoy it.

It is very much a political statement at the expense of the tax payer and the general public, and that is regrettable, to put it mildly.

The likelihood it passing off with out major logistical glitches is negligible, what is of greater concern is that it is almost inevitable that many people will be the victims of crime of one sort or another. I can only hope that this will be what is considered in SA to be 'petty' meaning it will only be theft and scams.

[Der absolute Hammer]

That rather a little bit begs the comment that as the only victims of crime are likely to be football fans and as they are not the flavour of this lifetime, who cares, as, in the case of their victimisation by criminals, they will not be likely to return to the beloved country?

[porra]

Sjoe, u guys have a lot of time on ur hands!

Now - where's the YAWN smilie...?

[ByAirMail]

Porra, you got involved in a debate and that's all you can come up with??

[Der absolute Hammer]

Is it the desert defence?

[Capetonian]

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9868/whiteelephant.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/i/whiteelephant.jpg/)

[Beta Light]

these are the people that's going to bring us all that money and soccer happiness.

Cops intercept Eng hooligans: Sport: Sport: 2010 World Cup: National News (http://www.sport24.co.za/Soccer/WorldCup/NationalNews/Cops-intercept-Eng-hooligans-20100531)

[CaptainGondwe]

Bythemail...I appreciate your reply, that makes total sense and I do realize that the funds could be spent in a million different ways that could benefit the South African people but the wheels have been set into motion and I think all this negativity around will not help matters. I realize this is not an ideal situation but we should try to make the best of it.

As for me, Im only 20, and have only lived four years of my life in Africa, Malawi in particular as my info reads; but I am there enough to know what is happening.

[Capetonian]

Some advice for anyone daft enough to be going to SA for this non-event.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7593647/Crash_course.pdf

[Der absolute Hammer]

It is amusing - yes?- to read of all the tourists who will be coming to SA and eating themselves silly at vast prices at the restaurants etc while they are there. I wonder though how many of the tables the tourists will be filling would usually be taken by South Africans who will not be eating at restaurants in SA venues over the WC month but will instead be enjoying warm Europe weather and eating outside in the safe and balmy atmospheres found (usually) there in summer time.

[Capetonian]

I do know that many of my friends are, like myself, staying well away from South Africa until it is over. Some of them tried to rent out their homes and had no takers. It was interesting to see how all the hyped-up nonsense about 'shortage of accommodation' led all the greedy sods to rack up the prices, and now they have been left with a massive over supply. The airlines also got caught out in the same way.

[ByAirMail]

Five days to go, this is just the build up:

Fans hurt in SWC stampede: Sport: Sport: 2010 World Cup: National News (http://www.sport24.co.za/Soccer/WorldCup/NationalNews/Fans-hurt-in-SWC-stampede-20100606)

Cop killed near soccer base camp: News24: South Africa: News (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Cop-killed-near-soccer-base-camp-20100605)

[DeltaGolf]

Chile's national football team arrived today to Nelspruit, the flight was a Charter flight direct From Santiago (SCEL) to Nelspruit (FAKN). The flight was chartered by LAN on board a B767.

4 days left !

[ByAirMail]

http://cdn.24.com/files/Cms/General/d/598/196383863b2b483a91b6f19242d59dd0.jpg

[ByAirMail]

From the B.B.C.
The incidents have provided the wrong sort of build-up to the World Cup that the South African authorities would have wanted

BBC Sport's Piers Edwards

[Capetonian]

For anyone interested in this thing ... this is a really fantastic planner ....

Mundial 2010 en MARCA.com (http://www.marca.com/deporte/futbol/mundial/sudafrica-2010/calendario-english.html)

[ByAirMail]

This time it's the Chinese journalist's turn, a couple of hours after arriving in South Africa, in broad daylight, at gun point.

Chinese robbed, arrests made in separate robbery | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6591P520100610)

[seper]

Lets put politics aside,let the games begin................Good luck Africa,All the best RSA,so far so good!!!!!!!!

[ByAirMail]

Once again seper is missing the point.

[Capetonian]

Once again seper is missing the point.

Is there a point? The whole thing is a sick farce, a carnival going on while millions are living in poverty thanks to the 'democracy' that the world convinced them they wanted.

[seper]

BYAIRMAIL

I Assure you i haven't missed the point,i have just moved on.Dwelling on what the funds could have better be used for wont serve any purpose now.

Football is strong world politics,not cricket,not ever rugby now and in the infinite future,not tennis,not swimming,only football draws that crowd,and it rules the whole world,more poor than rich,it is the only sport that binds all poor and impoverished people in the world,of whom, most football stars had their beginnings.

[ByAirMail]

Now Robert Mugabe is a guest of honor at the soccer world Cup. Sorry seper I can't move on. I saw in the 1980's what he and his 5 Brigade did to the opposition. So we should forget this and his recent killing of his own people in the name of Soccer. We are still hunting down 95 year old Nazi's, but Mugabe is welcome??

FIFA and the select few i.e. Danny Jordaan, Julius Malama ( yes his construction company's are involved) and side kick's is the only winners. With attitudes like yours I am not surprised Nigeria, a very wealthy country is in the state it is and the the world don't trust it's citizens.

Japan today openly admit hosting the World Cup in 2002 was a big mistake. 8 out of the 10 stadiums are losing between $2 to $6 Mil a year, and this is the 2nd largest economy in the world, hosting it during the boom time. And who is picking up the tab??? ... yip the taxpayer!!

This big party you embrace will have a hangover for a looooong time, with the taxpayer suffering it, in a country where 5% pay over 90% of the tax.

So move on to what, more suffering and non service delivery??

[seper]

They played a lot better than i expected,but still a bit rough on the edges,however the other teams have not been impressive in that group,ie france/Uruguay,so barring any mistakes they should make it to round two.

[ByAirMail]

Uruguay team robbed at hotel.

Now for a soccer question: Is it normal to say "well done" when the team draw?
In rugby you will never hear a supporter say "well done" to a draw. Well done is for a win, if you draw you only get half the points and that could cost you later in the pool games.
If I say 'well done" to my team for a draw it mean I had no confidence in them, and that just surviving is good enough.

I don't know much about he game but the South African goal looked like a cracker, now that was "well done."

[Capetonian]

Dear Family and Friends,

While the eyes of the world are on South Africa as it hosts the 2010
World Cup Football games, we are sitting here next door shivering in
the dark and the cold. For the past four months we've been
experiencing 16 hour a day power cuts, only having electricity in the
middle of the night. All our protestations have been met with
assurances that these cuts were to enable vital maintenance which in
turn would allow for uninterrupted power during the World Cup
Football Games. That has turned out to be a myth.

In my home area first we missed the excitement prior to the concert
at the Soweto stadium, then we missed the official opening of the
World Cup games, then, to top it all off, we missed the first match
between South Africa and Mexico. When the electricity did finally
come on, after everything was over, we were more concerned about the
essentials of life than about football. Essentials like a hot meal -
the first for days, washing and ironing, charging telephones and
batteries and catching up on the news.

With the world's cameras just a few hundred kilomteres away over the
border, and the great spectacle of extravagance being unfolded in
South Africa, its hard to believe the dark ages events taking place
in Zimbabwe. Behind the football smokescreen an MDC MP was arrested
and spent days in police custody for giving out donated vitamins,
dietary supplements and common aspirin tablets. This comes shortly
before the long awaited and very overdue constitutional outreach
programme begins, a programme in which this MP has been heavily
involved.

Also lost in the football smoke is Farai Maguwa, a researcher into
human rights violations at the Marange diamond fields who was
arrested, denied bail and has remained in custody for the second
week. This comes days before Zimbabwe again tries to get Kimberley
Process approval to sell diamonds.

We wonder if any of the international camera crews might cross the
border and report on the new wave of farm seizures in many parts of
the country. In the past week 16 commercial farmers who had court
orders protecting them have come under renewed eviction attempts.
This is happening at a time when the Commercial Farmers Union have
said that Zimbabwe is set to record its lowest ever wheat output of
about 10 000 tonnes. To put this into context, Zimbabwe used to
produce between 250 and 300 thousand tonnes of wheat prior to land
invasions. Zimbabwe will will need to import up to 400 thousand
tonnes of wheat in the coming year in order to meet national
requirements.

Finally, the last puff in the smoke cloud obscuring Zimbabwe from
international attention, comes the news that our leaders are again to
call for mediation to settle outstanding issues in their power sharing agreement.
Still no governors, no deputy minister of agriculture, no
resolution on unilateral appointments of Reserve Bank Governor and
Attorney General. Most people agree that this is all now a waste of
time and that we should proceed with a new constitution and elections
and stop all this stalling.

Until next week, thanks for reading, love cathy.

A poke in the eye for the fat smug complacent smirking hypocrites like Peter Hain who helped Zimbabwe achieve 'democracy' and 'freedom'. Well done guys!

[evanb]

BYAIRMAIL, you have lost all credibility since you started to just make up things.

1) Robert Mugabe was not a "guest of honor" at the opening ceremony. The head of state of all FIFA members are invited to attend. So I don't see how you think people did their utmost to make him welcome. Many heads of state did attend, and will continue to attend the tournament.
2) When did Japan openly admit to making a mistake hosting the World Cup? If it were such a mistake why are they bidding to host it again? They are bidding to host both the 2018 and 2022 event, as are South Korea who they jointly hosted it with in 2002.

The big difference between the Japanese/Korean World Cup and our own is that we are using far fewer venues, 20 versus 10. Of those 10, only 5 (call it 6 with Soccer City) are new builds and most will do just fine after the World Cup. The only stadium's with serious concerns going forward are Nelspruit, Polokwane and Port Elizabeth. Cape Town was a concern but will do okay. The 2010 World Cup is already immendly profitable, and has cost less (in real terms) than any recent World Cups.

You don't like the World Cup - we all get that. But there is no need to just continuously trash it - it serves no purpose but to make YOU feel better about it all. The large majority of South Africans are loving this World Cup and they think its money well spent.

Your statistic about 5% of people paying 90% of tax is blatantly false, but that said, remember that 10% of South Africans earn more than 60% of all income!

[ByAirMail]

evanb,
so you watch CNN Asia? that's where they had the piece on Japan and the world cup. As far as bidding again, it was not mentioned in the piece, but it might be that the big expenses and infrastructure is already in place, why not try and recover some of the money. I don't know how easy it will be to find the link as it was a 5 minute piece. As far as the tax structure go, it's accurate within +- 3% and that's straight from the S.A. news papers, by south African economists.

If I get bored enough soon and try to find both links, might just be a bit embarrassing for you then?

I see the spin doctors for FIFA is very busy. The Sunday paper reporting that the hotels reimburse and compensate tourists that report crime, as to keep it out of the stat's.

?Moenie polisie roep,? sê hotel glo: Rapport: Suid-Afrika: Nuus (http://www.rapport.co.za/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Moenie-polisie-roep-se-hotel-glo-20100612)

The cases that do get reported by tourists get high priority and is solved in record time according to the article.
Yet my friend that was murdered 4 years ago, his case file has not been touched.

Head out the sand evan.

[Capetonian]

Of those 10, only 5 (call it 6 with Soccer City) are new builds and most will do just fine after the World Cup. The only stadium's with serious concerns going forward are Nelspruit, Polokwane and Port Elizabeth. Cape Town was a concern but will do okay.

Complete and utter speculation. The money that was wasted on the stadia, and which should have been spent on other services for the poorer sections of the community, will simply be written off by creative accounting.


"The 2010 World Cup is already immendly profitable, and has cost less (in real terms) than any recent World Cups. "

And just who is benefiting from that profit? Let's see now ... FIFA, Sepp Blatter, the ANC members who took huge bribes and backhanders, the shareholders of Sun International and the other big hotel chains. No benefit at all will have accrued to the needy, and a perfect example of the ruthless cruelty and mercenary attitude of FIFA was the banning of informal traders from the vicinity of the stadia, so that FIFA branded crap could be sold to further boost FIFA's profits.

Nobody yet knows how much it has cost or how profitable it has been because it isn't even over and final accounts have to be submitted, so your last statement is just hot air and quite unsubstantiated.


Just a few quotes from the local press showing what a massive scam and confidence trick this has been, and there's plenty more :
Pretoria - With only 58 days left before the 2010 Fifa World Cup, Fifa's accommodation agent Match has dumped another 300 000 bed nights on the market.

This means that Match now holds only 600 000 of the 1.9 million bed nights it originally reserved for the World Cup.

Sake24 previously reported that Match released 450 000 bed nights, including timeshare units and practically all of the Kruger National Park stock.

The industry had hoped that the 900 000 bed nights Match had held on to would be taken up, but Fifa's agent indicated that this would not necessarily be the case.

Johannesburg - FIFA's claims in 2009 that host cities were short of about 50 000 beds each for the World Cup tournament were misleading and caused private home owners to waste money on renovations, estate agents said on Tuesday.

According to some of the estate agencies responsible for property rentals to foreign visitors during the tournament, only a fraction of the rooms purportedly needed for the promised tourists have been let out.

"The perception fed to us by Match and FIFA was totally wrong," said Sherril Baard, founder of 2010 Property Rentals. "We kept being told that every area was 50 000 beds short."

According to Baard, only 40% of their properties were rented out to visitors, attained by a realistic pricing strategy.

FIFA's accommodation agent, Match, relinquished more than 450 000 of the bed nights it initially reserved for local hotels and guest houses this year.

"Initially, I think FIFA created a hype through the expectation that half a million tourists would be coming to SA," said Seeff Properties chairperson Samuel Seeff. "The global financial crisis and the airlines pushing their prices up also frightened people away."

According to Seeff, only 10% of properties on the group's books were leased out.

"The hype surrounding potential property rentals to rich tourists for the World Cup has left many property owners out of pocket," said TPN MD Michelle Dickens.

According to Rivonia property owner Dave Light, the initial hype came from estate agents. "I was approached by an estate agency...that said I could get R14 000 per day for my 12-sleeper house."

Three weeks before the start of the World Cup, Light eventually leased his property out to a French security team for R3 500 per day for 56 days.

Another estate agency, Street Smart Properties, only secured rental for 10 of the 100 properties on its books, and then not even for the full World Cup period.

Baard said last year her agency was inundated with calls from home owners who wanted to make a killing during the tournament.

"By the end of 2009, all the people who had done all that footslogging (taking pictures, upgrading their houses, making them beautiful) had been left in the lurch," said Baard.

Baard said all 2010 Property Rentals' Johannesburg properties have been let, but none in Cape Town where the agency is based. "People just don't want to fly to Cape Town - it's too far and too expensive.

"If we ever get the Olympics we're going to have the same abortion as this," said Baard.

Johannesburg - An enormous property project that would have provided 78 500 dwelling units for the World Cup soccer tournament appears to have been a hoax.

Katota, a company owned by Ghanaian businessman Joseph Eshun, undertook to buy and complete almost 100 residential developments from developers for nearly R50bn.

There are less than two weeks left before the soccer spectacle and not a single Katota project has been completed.

And the developers, whose selling activities have come to a halt while they wait for Katota, are still waiting for their money.

Several have since been liquidated.

Cape Town - It's ridiculous to be asked to pay R599 for an official replica Bafana Bafana shirt: and that's the word from the workers who make it.

"From a factory price of about R100, R150 and the final product in the retail stores being sold for R599, we think that's a disservice to South Africans,” SA Clothing and Textile Workers' Union (Sactwu) general secretary Andre Kriel said on Thursday.

Johannesburg - "Brand police" will patrol 2010 Soccer World Cup stadiums to make sure the Fifa brand is not hijacked, the world football body said on Thursday.

No brand other than Fifa will be allowed in the commercial restriction zones in and around stadiums countrywide.

[Capetonian]

Soccer stadiums 'not viable in the long run' - Mail & Guardian Online: The smart news source (http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-05-23-soccer-stadiums-not-viable-in-the-long-run)

Soccer stadiums 'not viable in the long run'
JUSTINE GERARDY | PORT ELIZABETH, SOUTH AFRICA - May 23 2010 09:22

The World Cup has brought Port Elizabeth a stunning new landmark in its oceanside stadium, but questions remain about who will fill the stands once the global football fans leave.

"In the South African case, all the stadiams were either renovated or constructed by the government. That means that the commercial consideration was never primary," said economist Stan du Plessis of Stellenbosch University.

"Some of these stadiums are simply not going to be in a position to cover their running costs. In that sense, they will be loss making."

South Africa has poured about R20-billion ($2,6-billion), multiples of the original estimates, into 10 stadiums in nine cities to showcase Africa's first World Cup.

White elephant fears often dog major sporting events with Athens 2004 Olympics facilities said to be rusting away amid early rumbles about London 2012.

In South Africa's smaller towns like Nelspruit and Polokwane, and distant cities like Port Elizabeth, local officials are already wondering how to keep their new world-class stadiums running.

Port Elizabeth's R2-billion, 46 000-seater hopes to lure a top football or rugby team to offset its annual R18-million running costs.

"I don't think you can ever get the money back on the stadium," said Stephan Pretorius, chief executive of the stadium's private management firm.

Hungry for sport
"The stadium is built really for the community. The idea would be that we make the stadium as successful as possible. People here are very hungry for sport and they are very hungry for events and concerts."

The building boom shielded South Africa from the global recession, and the tournament is expected to boost the economy by 0,5% this year.

But concerns about the stadiums themselves extend even to Cape Town, the priciest pitch at R4,5-billion, in Fifa's preferred location on prime property amid premier tourist sites.

A developing country like South Africa did not need new mega-stadiums, argues Andrew Jennings, author of Foul! The Secret World of Fifa: Bribes, Vote-Rigging and Ticket Scandals.

"Who is going to pay the bill? South Africa," he said. "It is a saga of greed from Fifa, they don't care about South Africa."

"There has been a shameless exploitation of South Africans. They have been left with white elephants, it is now for taxpayers to pay the bill."

Durban city manager Mike Sutcliffe has called for an urgent post-tournament look at sustainability, saying all host cities face "huge funding issues".

"If I'm battling in a big city, I'd hate to know what my colleagues are doing in Polokwane and Mbombela [Nelspruit]," he recently told lawmakers.

Polokwane in undeveloped northern Limpopo -- host to a R1,3-billion stadium with annual bills of up to R17-million -- has already turned to the treasury for more cash.

"At the moment we'll need that type of funding to let our programmes run through effectively. We need it now. Unfortunately we can't wait until the end of the World Cup," said the city's 2010 director Ndavhe Ramakuelue.

Both Polokwane and Port Elizabeth have shrugged off white elephant labels.

But according to Du Plessis, only Durban and Johannesburg's Soccer City have promising chances. Though he stops short at dishing out whites elephant labels.

"These stadiums are actually built for something very specific.

They will host a great World Cup. So in that respect they are not a white elephant," he said.

But "a number of them will simply not be viable in the long run". - AFP

[Beta Light]

I have a friend who is a Food and Beverage manager with Sun International. They have been told by FIFA that they are only allowed to promote and push Heineken beer during the world cup.

I am sure Heineken will not put this money back into the local community, a huge chunk will go to FIFA and Sun international as a partner in this monopoly and predatory business deal.

Not in the spirit of the world cup or in the interest of the local people...... but rest assure, I will personally keep the Windhoek sales up.

[evanb]

Beta Light, I think you friend is talking rubbish! Budweiser is the official beer, its the only beer you can get at any FIFA sanctioned event during the games! Heineken has nothing to do with Budweiser!

Capetonian, there are considerable issues around the long run sustainability issues with the stadia, I accept that. However, what I suggested is that we will have fewer issues than other previous hosts since we used fewer stadia and more existing stadia than any recent host!

ByAirMail, as an economist I would love to see those links!!! I raise the question about where you get this data since it has been discussed many times amongst economists yet nobody has actually produced any data to support the speculation. That said, it would be natural to think that the large majority of tax is paid by a minority of people since more than 60% of income is earned by less than 10% of South Africans. Fortunately, we live in a democracy and votes are allocated in proportion of income!!! By the way, if you believe everything on CNN you would probably also believe that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction! Oh you would also believe that not one of the stadia would be ready (they all were months before the World Cup started) amongst many other things!

[Capetonian]

Fortunately, we live in a democracy and votes are allocated in proportion of income!!!

Please enlighten me.

On another matter, previous World Cups have not been held in one party states where most of the population live below the poverty line, with disease, malnutrition, crime, inadequate security and health facilities, overpopulation and mass illegal immigration.

Therefore the money wasted on stadia and peripherals becomes far more critical in the case of South Africa.

[Beta Light]

Hi evanb,
You are probable correct that it is Budweiser and not Heineken, I was jet lagged and had a couple of the Namibian ones at the time. The conversation at the time was not so much the brands, but the absolute domination of FIFA during the world cup and if there is any benefit to anyone but FIFA and their selected partners.

[Beta Light]

Not to be accused of jumping on the anti bandwagon, but saw lots of footage on the T.V. regarding this and it does make one wonder about the uniting power of the world cup:

Riot police disperse hundreds of protesters outside World Cup stadium after match (http://blog.taragana.com/business/2010/06/13/riot-police-disperse-hundreds-of-protesters-outside-world-cup-stadium-after-match-70028/)

[evanb]

Beta, fair game, however, I am staying at a Sun International property in PE at the moment and there is no Budweiser here ... but anyway!

Capetonian, yes, previous world cups have been held in Brazil, Argentina and Mexico, and the next one is in Brazil again ...

[Capetonian]

Capetonian, yes, previous world cups have been held in Brazil, Argentina and Mexico, and the next one is in Brazil again ...

And your point is?

You haven't answered the question I asked you at 0736. Are you running out of steam?

[evanb]

You didn't ask a question, but as I was indicating, several countries with similar social and economic problems have hosted world cups before. One of these countries is about to host it for the second time.

Sure the issue of how to allocate monetary resources is a legitimate debate. However, the last time I checked we don't live in a one party state. Its a democracy and the large majority of citizens would rather that money be spent on the world cup. Surely if they didn't want this they would vote out the government? Or are you suggesting that our elections are a sham?

[Capetonian]

I asked you to explain your statement: Fortunately, we live in a democracy and votes are allocated in proportion of income!!! I'm waiting.

However, the last time I checked we don't live in a one party state.
Are you seriously suggesting that there will ever be another ruling party than the ANC? The elections have been a charade.

Its a democracy and the large majority of citizens would rather that money be spent on the world cup.
Can I take it that you have personally polled a sufficient number of them to validate this sweeping statement. That you have said to them : "Would you like to live safely and with better security and health services, education and job prospects for your children, or would you rather that South Africa hosted a World Cup which you will probably not be able to afford to attend anyway?

Surely if they didn't want this they would vote out the government? Or are you suggesting that our elections are a sham?
And how would they do that? By not voting ANC? And then?

Who are you trying to fool? Can I have some of whatever you've been drinking or smoking please, it seems to induce a feeling of euphoria.

And do you really think that Argentina, Mexico, and Brasil are valid comparisions with South Africa?

[evanb]

I asked you to explain your statement: Fortunately, we live in a democracy and votes are allocated in proportion of income!!! I'm waiting. Typo, it should have said arn't allocated in proportion of income, sorry!

However, the last time I checked we don't live in a one party state.
Are you seriously suggesting that there will ever be another ruling party than the ANC? The elections have been a charade. Just because another party might not win an election it doesn't mean we live in a one party state. And yes, I am suggesting that at some point in the future someone other than the ANC might be in power, not anytime soon but its certainly possible. On what grounds are the elections a charade?

Its a democracy and the large majority of citizens would rather that money be spent on the world cup.
Can I take it that you have personally polled a sufficient number of them to validate this sweeping statement. That you have said to them : "Would you like to live safely and with better security and health services, education and job prospects for your children, or would you rather that South Africa hosted a World Cup which you will probably not be able to afford to attend anyway? Yes, I work in a market research firm that does polling and we have been doing this for a long time and there is a lot of support for the world cup.

Surely if they didn't want this they would vote out the government? Or are you suggesting that our elections are a sham?
And how would they do that? By not voting ANC? And then? By voting for another party ... that is what elections are about.

Who are you trying to fool? Can I have some of whatever you've been drinking or smoking please, it seems to induce a feeling of euphoria.

And do you really think that Argentina, Mexico, and Brasil are valid comparisions with South Africa? I lived in Brazil for 8 years ... its a country that shares remarkable similarities to South Africa. It has large scale poverty and inequalities of income. A strange history of race relations. Massive crime, etc.

[ByAirMail]

I did a "lite" search on Google and this was the first to come up. It is not close to the original program, about a 5 minute insert during a program on CNN about the W.C. It was either on Thursday or Friday, approx. 15:00 Bangkok time on C.N.N. in Asia.

If all else fail I'll e-mail CNN and ask them for a link. I'll P.M. you with a copy of the e-mail to them.
In the mean time, from a "lite" search on google asia:

World Cup in 2002, Money and David Beckham


It was hoped that the World Cup would be a boost to local economies. That didn’t happen. Some businesses had less business than usual during the event. Hotels that were expected to reap big profits had to cut prices because of last minute cancellation caused by foreign travel companies that were unable to convince soccer fans in their countries to spend the money to go to an expensive Japan.

More than $4.5 billion was spent to build 10 new stadiums, many of them in small cities in the middle of nowhere. After the World Cup was over many of the stadiums had difficulty finding tenants and resorted to hosting weddings, flea markets and youth soccer tournaments and even selling turf said to have been walked on by Beckham, earning only a fraction of the millions of dollars needed just to cover annual maintenance costs. Some stadiums were designed only for soccer so they couldn’t be used for baseball games or concerts. The town of Toyota spent $40 million on a new stadium that wasn’t even used on the World Cup. The lost money was covered by tax payers and long-term government bonds.

It was also hoped that World Cup would generate more long term interest and money for local soccer leagues. That didn’t happen either. While television revenues rose, gate receipts actually went down.

The only person to make out really well was David Beckham. He was paid millions of dollars for endorsements for products including cell phones, chocolate-covered almonds, beauty products and used cars. When he returned to Japan a year after the World Cup was over and was received like a rock star. On television I once saw four Beckham commercials in a row, each for a different product. He reportedly made $3.6 million from TBC (Tokyo Beauty Center) ads alone. On his appeal, one Japanese female fan said, “I devote my whole life to Beckham” and said Japanese women like him so much because he is “so caring and kind.”

from:
SOCCER IN JAPAN - Japan | Facts and Details (http://factsanddetails.com/japan.php?itemid=763&catid=21&subcatid=140)

[keitaidenwa]

And do you really think that Argentina, Mexico, and Brasil are valid comparisions with South Africa?
Yes. For example Mexico 1986 (when they held WC) had less total GDP and GDP per capit than SA today. The country was run by "Institutional Revolution Party" for the last 60 or so years. Technically socialist party but practically a cleptocratic party. And they attacked brutally whoever theatened their power. Mexico had recently defaulted its loans. Violent, drug-trafficing related crime was not *yet* an big issue it is in mexico today, but the corrupt police force was already happy to turn a blind eye if shared part of drug profits. Mexico city was the most polluted city of the time. Large parts of rural Mexico were effectively lawless, hijackings on road were and still are common. Some areas of mexico have gone down a lot since, with a low-intensity civil war in chiapas today. Just a month ago some western aid workers were killed in ambush by pro-goverment militia. Unlike the gaza ship thing that incident went completly ignored by global press..

Mexicans may not have vuvuzelas but mariachis get damn close in noise level :}

During 1978 world cup, Argentina was run by dictator who got in power via coup, Jorge Videla. He is still wanted, among other human rights violations, for the 10000-30000 people he made "disappear" during his regime.

And don't get me started with history of Brazil and it's favelas... Try watching "Cidade de Deus" some day. I'm sure you'd rather choose living in Gugulethu over any Rio Favela.

Yeah, we got it already, SA is no (west!) europe, but anyone claiming that SA is the only country with big social problems to have organized WC is either being ignorant of recent history or racist. It isn't even the only country to waste lots of money in making a big sports event - recent greece olympics comes into the mind.. Reading this and the other "SA sucks!" threads here I think SA takes the title of "Only country full of whiners to organize WC" :}

[Capetonian]

Just because another party might not win an election it doesn't mean we live in a one party state. And yes, I am suggesting that at some point in the future someone other than the ANC might be in power, not anytime soon but its certainly possible. On what grounds are the elections a charade?

The opposition are so fragmented that they have no chance of winning. We all know that the history of Africa shows that once a dominant party gets in, there is only a change if accompanied by bloodshed, whether that be sooner or later, but it is the inevitable outcome. The elections were a charade because the majority, the ignorant and uneducated, were coerced into voting ANC, whilst the younger generation look up to the likes of Julius Malema. Other parties are influential in some areas but overall it's the ANC that run the country.

Yes, I work in a market research firm that does polling and we have been doing this for a long time and there is a lot of support for the world cup.
If you poll gays in a gay club and ask them if they agree with homosexuality then the vast majority will say they do. Thus are statistics slewed and flawed. Did your 'market research company' poll a large and representative portion of the population, from wealthy Sandton whites to shack dwellers in townships, did they do so pro rata?

The disparity of living standards between the Latin American countries you refer to and South Africa is not on the same scale. There are some valid similarities but the comparison does not stand up to scrutiny, as you would know if you've really lived in South Africa.

Nothing you have said has the ring of truth or real knowledge of the situation.


but anyone claiming that SA is the only country with big social problems to have organized WC is either being ignorant of recent history or racist.

What the hell has 'racist' got to do with it? Why does someone always have to pull out the race card when they can't come up with a sound argument?

[Beta Light]

Once again I am with Capetonian on this one. I worked in Chilli, South America, for an extended period of time. This took me around South America, including Brazil over night's. With Brazil and other South American country's there is no surprises. What you see is what you get.

My grype with 2010 was the promises we made and the promises made to us. I think when the FIFA members vote they were hoping that they giving a developing country a chance. Our wonderful Statesman Madiba did his magic, and we got the 2010 W.C. We promised FIFA and the World first world standards and huge development to the country's poorest.

As Madiba got older and Mbeki showed his incompetence I changed my mind from being pro World Cup to having reservations. Then came a president that had his hand so deep in the weapon procurement cookie jar, and got away on a technicality, and by the way, he is so happy that his H.I.V. test is negative!!

I then realize the W.C. is not what we need. We have bigger issues to deal with. In between Julius M reared his head, and is now temporarily gagged, but he'll be back.

Brazil and South America never pretend. We all know their short comings and they admit to it. FIFA knew who and what they were getting into with South America. But this time they betted on Madiba and an Invictus moment, what they got is a nightmare for there spin doctorsand P.R. department.

What will we get? Long term debt.

[evanb]

Beta, I agree with a lot what you said in your last post. I am just not convinced that we promised FIFA much in the way of development. We promised that they would make money out of it and there is little doubt that they have made a fortune. I think that my abrasiveness on this is that the world media, including South Africa, spent nearly 10 years talking about failure and how it won't happen, i.e. the stadia won't be ready, the infrastructure won't be ready, that FIFA will move it to Australia, that everyone who comes will be raped and murdered. Now when almost none of this has materialised they have moved on to it costs too much, that the money was better spent elsewhere, that the stadia and infrastructure are all white elephants, etc. The British media love bashing South Africa - they have done it since the 31 May 1961. When Sky News run out of negativity they start with the Vuvuzela!!! The fact of the matter is that South Africa has pulled it off, the World Cup has started, and so far been a success in many ways and has cost significantly less than it would have cost elsewhere in the world. Lets leave the speculation about the future for a while and enjoy it while it lasts. If they knock down one of the stadia in a few years because it is not being used and costs too much I will happily eat my words then, the same for the genuine improvements in infrastructure, particularly transport ... but why can't you let people enjoy it!

I am off to watch Portugal versus the Ivory Coast - later!

[Sammajoor]

SA pilots go to court: Sport: Sport: 2010 World Cup: National News (http://www.sport24.co.za/Soccer/WorldCup/NationalNews/SA-pilots-go-to-court-20100615)

Just read this on News 24, good luck with Pres Blatter

[Capetonian]

evanb : It's not over yet. Even if nothing goes wrong - and I hope that will continue to be the case - there will be massive costs to cover, and other long term negative effects.

Let's review this when it's over, and then again in say 5 years time.

[ByAirMail]

Reasonably safe so for exept for the odd burglary. But then we would not know as the police don't release crime fgures and hotels encourage guests to have crime investigated in house.
On check in our crew and passengers are warned not to venture anywhere before checking with hotel staff, hotels provide transport to safe areas, and spectators prefer to stick to known safe areas with lots of other people around e.g Sandton Square.

[keitaidenwa]

What the hell has 'racist' got to do with it? Why does someone always have to pull out the race card when they can't come up with a sound argument?That word was planted there as a trap, and you walked right into it.:D The rest of message had a lot of sound argument but there was only one word you chose to pick up...

betalight:

Chile/South America in recently or in 80's? This "discussion" rised from the claim that WC was never before been organized in country in as poor state, so I'm not comparing SA to South America *today*, but to when Argentina (78)/Mexico(86) organized WC. Eg was life under Argentinian military Junta better than under Zumas ANC? Sure they didn't have the crime figures of SA but nobody would know where Zille is and people asking where she is would also be mysteriously disappearing...

[Lonewolf_50]

(http://www.sport24.co.za/Soccer/WorldCup/NationalNews/SA-pilots-go-to-court-20100615)SA pilots go to court: Sport: Sport: 2010 World Cup: National News (http://www.sport24.co.za/Soccer/WorldCup/NationalNews/SA-pilots-go-to-court-20100615) (http://www.sport24.co.za/Soccer/WorldCup/NationalNews/SA-pilots-go-to-court-20100615)

The restriction makes sense, maybe from a very strict security perspective, for a given stadium while the game is on ... with the suicide pilot attack being the threat to public safety.

Otherwise, with no game on, it makes no sense at all.

[Capetonian]

That word (racist) was planted there as a trap, and you walked right into it. The rest of message had a lot of sound argument but there was only one word you chose to pick up...

You expect me to believe that? And the rest of the argument was sound .... not really. I think it proves the point that people who bleat 'racism' negate any validity that the rest of their argument might have.

[Beta Light]

I just need to clarify a statement I made earlier. When I said promises was made regarding development, we never made FIFA any promises about development, they can't care. We made promises to our people, and those promises will not materialize.

[chuks]

Never mind all the social concerns voiced about the wisdom of this World Cup. Now the games are on so that all attention is on the results. That might change if someone important is robbed or attacked but otherwise it's just time for the "circuses" part of that old success formula for keeping the poor happy, "bread and circuses."

In a few weeks the shouting will die down, the closing ceremony will have been held, the happy new World Cup holders will be jetting off homewards, to Pyongyang one hopes, and that will just about be that. If South Africa has a bit more debt to contend with, should that make things all that much worse, when there's not much hope for betterment under the ANC anyway?

You might want to look at it as a German does, when Schadenfreude (happiness over the misfortune of another) is a big thing with them. We now have the idiot mooing of the vuvuzela as a part of our sonic German landscape so that we can share a tiny part of your WC pain. Sat there in the garden enjoying birdsong there comes a "Blooo-arp!" to be answered by another and then a third one joins in. This is auditory graffiti!

[ByAirMail]

Thousands march in Durban: Sport: Sport: 2010 World Cup: National News (http://www.sport24.co.za/Soccer/WorldCup/NationalNews/Thousands-march-in-Durban-20100616)

[Capetonian]

Thousands march in Durban

Durban – About 3 000 people marched through Durban on Wednesday, ahead of Spain's first World Cup match, to demand the government lavish the same spending on the poor as for the tournament.

Among them were hundreds of security guards with their FIFA badges, who clashed with riot police after the Germany-Australia match on Sunday in protest over their wages.

Their action sparked a series of walk-outs in Cape Town and Johannesburg, prompting police to take over security at those stadiums.

"Even if the police shoot us, we are going to work at Moses Mabhida Stadium," they chanted in Zulu as they marched toward City Hall.

Many protesters were frustrated at FIFA's strict marketing rules which limit all commercial activity around stadiums and fan parks.

Others accused the city of a "clean-up" to remove the homeless, street children and migrants from sidewalks to spruce up Durban's image.

Protesters included fishermen removed from their spots on the beachfront city's piers and vendors at a fresh market the city is trying to shut down to make way for a shopping mall.

Denying livelihood

"FIFA has a right to deny us our livelihood. Government took all the ratepayers' money for FIFA," said Desmond D'sa, an organiser of the march.

"If we have money for stadiums, we should not have any homeless people or people having to live in shacks," organiser Allan Murphy said in a statement ahead of the protest.

South Africa's government has poured R33bn into World Cup preparations, which critics say could have been better spent on improving lagging public services.

About 43% of South Africans live on less than two US dollars a day, and the country has the world's biggest gap between rich and poor.

This is just the beginning, it will gather momentum as people realise the real cost of this insanity. Significantly, today is the anniversary of the Soweto Riots of 1976.

[Carrier]

Quote: "The conversation at the time was not so much the brands, but the absolute domination of FIFA during the world cup and if there is any benefit to anyone but FIFA and their selected partners."

Bavaria N.V. scored a great goal against the FIFA bullies with this:

World Cup 2010: Police arrest women in Dutch orange dresses - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup-2010/7830319/World-Cup-2010-Police-arrest-women-in-Dutch-orange-dresses.html)

It's a good follow up to the Kulula.com success. While one cannot complain about FIFA or the VANOC Canadian Olympic Games junta controlling supplies sold within their grounds/premises it is impertinent of them to expect to control national symbols, etc. in public places, including sports grounds, throughout a country and to so selfishly impose upon others, such as with unnecessarily large flight ban areas, etc.

"Absolute domination of FIFA?" Has the SA government abdicated its responsibilities and authority to FIFA? It's disgusting to note that FIFA apparently now controls the SA Police Service as the women were arrested for wearing the Dutch national colour. Is this yet more corruption? Have the SA police caught all the muggers, burglars, rapists, car hijackers and murderers that they can afford to divert cops to bullying female football fans? Another black eye/own goal for South Africa!

Peer Swinkels, from Bavaria beer, said people “should have the right to wear what they want”.
“The Dutch people are a little crazy about orange and we wear it on public holidays and events like the World Cup,” he said. "This time we put no branding on the dress. And Fifa don't have a monopoly over orange."

Well done to those such as Bavaria N.V. and Kulula.com who oppose such greedy abuse!

[Lonewolf_50]

Colonel Vishnu Naidoo, a spokesman for the South African Police Service, said it was now considering whether to prosecute the women.
“They were questioned for 45 minutes to an hour,” he said. “They were lucky it was only that long – we could have held them for 48 hours. Ambush marketing is a serious offence.”

What the hell? :sad:

[CJ750]

Who is running this country at the moment. Those w:mad:rs from FIFA or the SPINELESS SA Government. Either way the only people benefitting are FIFA. The money wasted on this whole process over the last few years in preparation of the world cup could have been used to uplift the people at grass roots level in this country and not wasted on this ridiculous tournament. This latest debacle with the arrest of the dutch tourists depicts the kind of crap that fifa dish out and should be stopped but fifa paint such a rosy picture to countries about hosting the WC that they all go blind to the realities.

Myself i cannot wait for this rubbuish to be over and people throw away the bloody vuvuzelas and life to returns to post fifa run government. Even the ANC are a better prospect.:8

[ByAirMail]

Strikes embarrass SA: Fin24: Business (http://www.fin24.com/Business/Strikes-embarrass-SA-20100617)

As far as the loss last night, out played, straight and simple!

[oompilot]

If orange dresses are a serious crime what about orange aircraft? Perhaps FIFA should ground Mango as well.

[unstable load]

Carrier,
"Absolute domination of FIFA?" Has the SA government abdicated its responsibilities and authority to FIFA?

in a word, YES!

[Capetonian]

This whole debacle gets worse and worse. I am glad to see so many speaking out against it, even in the SA press wihch is still relatively free - fortunately.

Has the SA government abdicated its responsibilities and authority to FIFA?

It has enormous responsibilities and little authority, and therein lies the problem as it is failing to live up to its responsibilities, not that this makes it much different to any other government anywhere.

It has sold out to FIFA, and in the fullness of time the stories of backhanders and bribes will come out. By that time it will be too late as the corrupt and mercenary politicians will be living a life of idle luxury and the money stashed away in Swiss bank accounts.

[Lonewolf_50]

At least the lucre won't be in Spanish bank accounts ....








(reference the Swiss upset of Spain yesterday)

[ByAirMail]

Power cuts strand SWC trains: Sport: Sport: 2010 World Cup: National News (http://www.sport24.co.za/Soccer/WorldCup/NationalNews/Power-cuts-strands-SWC-trains-20100617)

[ByAirMail]

Cape Town – With its stunning mountain backdrop, beaches, vineyards and even penguins, South Africa's most visited city Cape Town has little cause to cast its sights elsewhere.

But with World Cup matches concentrated around Johannesburg, or within relatively easy reach of South Africa's largest city, visitors are choosing to base themselves in the north of the country instead of in the "Mother City".

Some of Cape Town's hotels report they are only 50% full and local bars and restaurants are eyeing television footage of the Johannesburg crowds and parties with envy.

"There are more flags on the cars in Johannesburg, and the tournament vibe is stronger there," said Casey Crafford, a 29-year-old photographer from Cape Town.

"Maybe it is because no teams are based around here and Cape Town has notoriously bad weather in the winter season. But if Cape Town is less the centre of things then at least it gives other cities a chance to benefit, I suppose."

While locals turn out in force to the fan zone sites to support South Africa, the hoards of visiting fans the city was expecting simply have not materialised.

South African accents

Cape Town stadium has so far hosted France and Uruguay, and Italy and Paraguay, but of the fans streaming to the stadium in blue Italy shirts most had South African accents.

"People are coming but not in the numbers we expected," said Carola Koblitz, a spokesperson for the city authorities, adding the type of person to be visiting was also a surprise.

"South Africa was initially expecting 450 000 fans but that estimate is now down to a conservative 200 000. We expected around 80% of visitors to be male, but now we are seeing more women and families here."

Cape Town, which focuses on high-end accommodation, has seen its hotels far from fully occupied.

"This is a World Cup driven by the world economic situation, which shows in the numbers and where people are staying," Koblitz said.

Some Italians fans visiting the city even arranged a free house swap with families from Cape Town, she said.

Premier tourist destination

As a premier tourist destination Cape Town has a highly-developed marketing machine behind it. Brochures spell out the reasons to watch the World Cup from Cape Town stating it is the most beautiful host city of them all, and its water front is the most visited spot in all Africa.

The city has spent R8bn on overhauling its transport system and creating attractive walkways to the stadium, including a 2.5km fan walk – which even on match days has seemed a little deserted.

However with English and Dutch fans expected to descend on the city for games, Koblitz is confident that will bring an influx visitors to Cape town.

England play Algeria at the Cape Town stadium on Friday while thousands of orange-clad Dutch fans are expected when Netherlands take on Cameroon on June 24. The city will also host matches at all stages until the semi-final.

Those who have already arrived are glad they made the trip.

"Actually we like it here. Everything is much smaller and we feel safer here," said Houssain Ferradi, a 34-year-old fan from Algeria who had just arrived from Johannesburg.

[Lonewolf_50]

In less pleasant news ... South African killed by family for watching Cup - World Cup- nbcsports.msnbc.com (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37756208/ns/sports-world_cup/)

Someone had a scuffle with the family over the remote, what to watch, world cup or not, and somebody got killed.

Shame. :(

[ByAirMail]

There is the odd report about 4 Aussies robbed in Nelspruit at gun point, Italian fan stabbed etc.
The reason there is relatively few incidences of crime is that the tourists was well informed about crime, therefore they stay in big groups and only visit "safe" areas like the Fan Zones.

What's disturbing in the report of the American who got shot after getting of the Gautrain is the fact that the police is quick to point out he was not a "World Cup tourist".. so soccer tourists have more rights to safety then normal tourists and tax paying citizens.

American tourist shot in Joburg: News24: South Africa: News (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/American-tourist-shot-in-Joburg-20100701)

The biggest debate has always been the economics of the World Cup, well if there was ever a hope of foreign investment, the news this morning dashes all those hopes.

Massive govt strike looms: Fin24: Economy (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Massive-govt-strike-looms-20100705)

Then don't forget that Johannesburg still had it's daily 3 hour power failures during the whole of last month. Inverters will look past the FIFA controlled areas before investing.

This world cup will be remembered for Vuvuzella's , a plastic pipe manufactured in China.

[Lonewolf_50]

There is an AP report that SA economic problems don't get all that much help from the cup.

South Africa economic woes unfixed by Cup - Business - World business - msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38149416/ns/business-world_business/)


JOHANNESBURG — South Africa may reap a windfall for defying the skeptics and successfully hosting the World Cup (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38149416/ns/business-world_business/#) but the profits short term are heading elsewhere while unions gripe and the nation's already staggering unemployment rate climbs higher.

FIFA, the tournament's organizer, is happy - with near-record ticket sales and huge global TV audiences. Some of its major international sponsors also are reporting record sales.

Yet official jobless figures released during the tournament revealed that the extensive World Cup-related preparations - including several billion dollars worth of new stadiums and transport infrastructure - didn't prevent a further downturn.

According to Statistics SA, 79,000 non-farm jobs were lost in the first quarter of this year, and 242,000 in the 12 months ending in March. The jobless rate is above 25 percent - and more than 30 percent if those who've given up job-hunting are included.

You made a good point.

This world cup will be remembered for Vuvuzella's, a plastic pipe manufactured in China.
My wife commented yesterday that, even with just the TV on in my house, watching Spain/Germany, she found the vuvuzela drone intensely annoying -- and that was after I had turned the sound down a bit due to my own annoyance. As the announcers weren't brilliant, I hit the mute button for the remainder of the match.

Based on a few weeks being subjected to that racket, I'd not blame any soccer player, coach, or ref so subjected to making a Health and Safety/OSHA complaint.