Delta deicing policy?

[BRE]

Had some time to spend on the south wing observation deck of Nariata terminal 1 on Thursday. It had snowed earlier that morning, but temperatures were definitely above freezing by noon. There was minimal slush left on some little travelled areas of concrete and tarmac, and also very limited amounts on airplanes. No plane was deicing except a Delta 744, not even any of the many other Delta planes around. When I was leaving, I saw that deicing was being begun on another Delta 744 that was parked in what seemed to be a cargo terminal.

Is there a policy specific to Delta and 744s?

[ONCECIMBER]

If you are in doubt, you are not in doubt. Safety is always paramount and cannot be put aside due to commercial pressure. (A 744 treatment is quite expensive....)

Also big airplanes carry lots of fuel that can get surprisingly cold during a flight. The remaining fuel after that flight might cool the wings down so that ice could form from rain -and snow will stick to the cold wings even if the outside temperature is slightly above freezing.

So a deice to remove above mentioned? Anytime.

[411A]

Anytime.

Yup, a good standard procedure.

[West Coast]

Good policy, if only for appearances. You never know who is watching.

[FEHERTO]

ICAO Clean Aircraft Concept / FAR 121.629 / EASA 1.345(a):
No airplane may take-off with any contamination adhering to the critical surfaces / components.

I would say that all others on this day had been wrong, when they did not remove contamination from the upper wing surface.

The B737NG, as the only aircraft in the world, may take-off with a very thin frost layer on the fuel cold-soaked area of the upper wing surface. For my personal opinion, a very questionable policy.

[metrodriver13]

Not in the States under Part 121.

The NG can take off with Cold Soaked Fuel Frost on the bottom of the wing only. If it is on the top, you must de-ice.

The black outline on the top of the wing is the acceptable CSFF area. This only used by Part 91 operators in the US(not sure about outside the US).

This is a big problem for operators into California because there are very few commercial airports that allow de icing fluid to be used. On VFR days with temperatures above freezing, we have taken delays to wait for the CSFF to melt off the top of the wings.

[FEHERTO]

metrodriver13: No, a 121 can also go with the CSFF, when he incorporates it in the 121.629 winter ops plan and get it approved by his Prinpcipal Operations Inspector. I know this, as I have made it for one operator.

Outside Europe it is acceptable, when the provisions of the SL are incorporated. Only Ireland does not accept it in general.

[metrodriver13]

Interesting. I didn't know there was an exception to the clean aircraft concept. We have been blowing $$ out the door(or nozzle as it may be) for years. Have to let the company know.

Thanks

[FEHERTO]

metrodriver13: Do not misunderstand me. I am against the policy to fly with a CSFF option. I believe it is the wrong way, as the difficulty is to determine the amount you have on the wing (especially thickness).

But it is an option. Do you have the copy of the Boeing Service Letter ? send me a PM and I attach the copy if needed.