Robinson R44 blade tip corrosion

[R44-pilot]

Does anyone know about the above?

Should blade tip corrosion be bad enough on a 5 year old, sub 600 hour, privately owned UK machine, always hangered, bad enough to need both blades replacing???

Thats what my friends have come up against, is there nothing else that can be done other than a new set of blades at £30k! :mad:

It's a Raven 1 if that makes any differance.

Just wondering if anyones had the same thing or knows of any similar cases?

[Bondu121]

Get an independent engineer to survey it for you

[Chopper Doc]

5 years old but how many hours has it flown? Also get another inspection by another engineer. Most R44 blades go the distance.

[R44-pilot]

Of sorry yeah, still shy of 600 I believe. :confused:

Think another engineer is gonna take a look. Just seems a drastic move to replace two blades!

[Bondu121]

Should be fine at 600 hours, but depends on the extent of the corrosion, delamination and/or erosion.

[R44-pilot]

Well I personally clean the helicopter very reguarly and there is or was no sign of delamination. Only the usual bit of paint missing from the leading edge going a few inch back...

I'll try and get some pics soon.

[John R81]

Pics would be good.

Is it more than the usual paint loss?

Are you in a corrosive atmosphere (salt, nearby chemical factories, other)?

Do you ever wipe down the blades (MR & TR) with WD40 (or similar)?

[Heliadmin]

5 year old R44 and paint missing from the leading edge going a few inch back....
Corrosion is not something that comes overnight, has FAA AD 2007-26-12 been followed up correctly?

On the RHC website (support section) you can find the AMOC to AD 2007-26-12 which propose to do this inspection every 100 Hrs /Annual inspection.

I don't know if this had been done on your R44 but we have good results with this procedure

[R44-pilot]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I was not so clear on the paint.... When I say goes back a few inch, I mean toward the blade root. It's just the usual missing paint you see on all Robbos and I have seen and flown worse blades which were fine.
Theres no talk of delamination. Just corrosion on/in the tips.

Just seemed strange. Will try for some pics over the weekend.:ok:

[R44-pilot]

Oh and all AD's are upto date, it had a 100 inspection a few months ago.:confused:

As for area, I don't think it's particuarly a corrosive atmosphere. It's east coast about 3NM from the sea but it's ALWAYS put back in the hanger. Don't fly it through rain or crap unless caught out by the odd shower.

No haven't used WD40 or anything like that, only use a damp cloth to clean the blades and anything other than paintwork or screen. Do them often enough so it's not caked with flies.

I'm just a bit miffed by it really. Seems nobody else has had this problem with similar hours and year machine then?

[JimBall]

Try posting here (http://www.robinsonhelicopters.org/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1)

[topendtorque]

looks like the last post would be good advice. There also was a picture of a R44 blade with a razor blade stuck in between the skin and spar not so long back somewhere here.

That blade was replaced.

it is under the blade outboard cap that you are looking at the corrosion is it?
cheers tet

[John R81]

Not commenting on condition of the blades (best advice so far - get an independent engineer to check).

However

3nm from the coast means it is likely that you are flying regularly in salt-laden atmosphere. Putting it back in the hanger with salt on metal will lead to corrosion - continues until all salt residue is removed. Good idea to wash regularly and [edited] follow recommended anti-corrosion treatment.

Any pics yet?

[I have seen spectacular corrosion caused by keeping / flying a heli at Liverpool. Still bought it. The clean / anti corrosion route was the conclusion of 2 engineers and the manufacturer who all looked at the machine]

[JimBall]

"Good idea to wash regularly and wipe down afterwards any metal parts of MR or TR with a little light oil (eg wd40) which then adheres and protects metal from corrosion."

NOT GOOD IDEA ANYWHERE NEAR BONDING OR JOINT. RHC DO NOT RECOMMEND WD 40.

(There have been previous discussions on this matter - if you are any doubt, ask RHC first or at least ask a UK R44 engineer who will give you the RHC gospel on WD40.)

[kevin_mayes]

Hi, Chaps...
Is this Erosion or Corrosion? as the two are not the same, pic would be nice.
I had a worry with the blades on my 47 when I aquired it, even though they are stainless they looked badly corroded on the leading edge, however they turned out to be fine, and a coat of paint cured all... (I must add the paint cost 5K!!!)
I was supprised how quick the paint goes mind you, fly through any rain and woosh its gone...
Kev.

[Bondu121]

As JimBall says - Keep WD40 away from any bonded areas and pitch change spider (in fact any grease lubricated areas). RHC do not recommend the use of WD40.
:ok:

[John R81]

Post edited to avoid risk of "bad advice". Thanks for putting that straight.

[R44-pilot]

Thanks fellas.

As said I only wash the blades with a damp cloth. I wash the heli in that wonder dry type stuff, not water but the only thing to touch the blades is a damn cloth so can't be anything like that I'm sure.

Through the summer I would say it gets cleaned 1-2 every 2 weeks depending on how much flying it does. I take pride in my cleaning of helicopters and do it as a favour ya see :) and I am the only one who washes but there's only about 4 people who fly it etc...

Will try and get some pics sorted this weekend :ok:

[500e]

Any where in the UK is close to the sea,
Try a damp finger run along the blade after flight then lick finger, taste the salt, clean the blades.

[biggles99]

R44-pilot - if you are bothered about the verdict (and you should be , it's you who is paying), get an opinion from a different maintenance organisation. Preferably one that is from a different country.


Bigs Ls.

[chopjock]

I regularly find corrosion on my rotor blades. I just scrape it off with a knife, back to bare metal, then put etch primer down and cover it all over with top coat. Works every time, been doing it for 15 years on the Enstrom and 4 years on the 500. You have to keep on top of it though.:)

[Bondu121]

Why from another country Biggles99, seems a bit excessive?

[biggles99]

Bondu 121:

because

(i) most of the engineers in this country know each other, and many have worked together. They may like or dislike the person/the organisation that the other engineer works for.

Therefore there can be bias either way -- to get one over on the engineer they don't like, or to back up their mate's decision.

(ii) There is a vested interest in one local engineering company "rubbishing" another engineering company's decision in order to get some work. So if it is the other way around (the new engineering company condemns the blades that the old engineering company said were OK), then there is quite a lot of money at stake. One red U/S placard on a set of blades will earn an engineering company around 5 grand in commission on parts and labour for re-fitting spindles, head bearings, track and balance and so on.

(iii) Engineering companies in other countries have other views and standards. it is very useful to learn from these guys. Two companies abroad that I have had dealings with (but am in no way connected to) are Joelle at Air Technologies in Belgium and Ruedi Boser at heli-something in Switzerland.

They are first class people who run first class engineering companies, and I'm sure either would be able to give an impartial and un-biased expert opinion.

Hope this helps,

Big Ls.

[blackhand]

Reference blade damage R44:

Take photos of the damage and send to tech department Robinson Helicopters.
They are always available to advise operators and will also arrange help through their tech reps in your country.
In my experience Robinson will not rip you off.

Cheers
BH

[Bondu121]

There's probably quite a few engineers who will take offence at your comments Big Ls

:ouch:

[R44-pilot]

Thanks for all the responses guys.

At them min, things are not so black and white as first thought....

There IS corrosion once you remove the blade end plates but at the mintute and at the owners request I can't say no more. I'm sure most will understand....

Will update as and when I can fellas.:ok:

[Tinwacker]

Chopjock
I just scrape it off with a knife, back to bare metal

A little worried about the engineering procedure Chop.....

If there is any corrosion on anything it requires suitable removal, cleaning then measuring for data tollerance allowance.
Pehaps pass this then to Robinson for their evaluation.

TW

[biggles99]

Bondu,

Why?

No offence is intended -- to anyone.

I work with engineers all the time, in this country and others, and (with a couple of notable exceptions) get on with virtually all of them.

Do you think the statements I make are incorrect?

I can back my assertions with some case histories, but it wouldn't be appropriate on this forum.

Glad to see that R44-pilot is now realising that things are not black and white all the time.

Big Ls

[Bondu121]

So all aircraft surveys, maintenance inspections, component surveys, etc should be carried out by overseas engineers?

Should UK engineers expect calls from the rest of the EU to carry out work because of EU paranoia about their engineers?

Strange old world/industry we work in.

:=