Questions for Wide Body Pilots

[flyboy_nz]

Hi everyone,

I am a low time hour SE pilot and I am always excited to travel on the big-jets. Hopefully, in the near future I will be your FO.

I have some questions for you guys and if you could please answer them, I would really appreciate it.

Initially when you guys level off at TOC, the a/c must be pretty heavy (in comparison with TOD). But, I have noticed that when you level off at TOC, the a/c seems to have a slight higher nose attitude (I notice the isle slanting up as I usually sit towards the end) Just before you guys reach TOD, the nose seems level. What I would like to know is that, is this the case because of the weight changing as the fuel is burning, or the nose attitude doesn't change throughout the cruise. We are talking about a long 5hr+ cruise.

During a visual app, do you still use the ILS as a backup?

If your weather radar shows an approaching CB, can you punch through it?

In regards to Jetstreams, how do you guys find them? weather reports?

I will post some more, if you guys don't mind. And thank you once again.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

You're very low hours, aren't you!! Is that on MS Flight Sim? Or for real?

Lift/Weight/Drag/Thrust ... have you done that bit yet? And Angle of Attack? Or not?

Next question? Oh yes, Met. A VERY good idea. Driving straight through a Cb is really fun, especially with an aircraft full of pax in the middle of a meal service. Everyone does that, for the laugh.

Jet Streams (http://squall.sfsu.edu/crws/jetstream.html)

All that sort of stuff.

Please tell me which airline you plan on joining ... I value my safety. ;)

[Edit = from one of your other posts]
I have a NZCAA CPL with Single Pilot multi-engine rating. I have 366TT with 40hrs co in the BE-76.

[SloppyJoe]

After that very helpful post I will add to the topic,

Attitude remains pretty constant throughout, about 2.5 nose up on the 340, you probably just get used to it so don't notice it after a while.

Yes, if there is one we use the ILS as a backup and usually fly down it once lined up on a visual approach.

We avoid CB's and don't try to punch through them, if there is a line of them and can't go round we try to find the best way through such as a thin bit of green between two cells, if it was all red then we would not try that. Have gone over 100nm off course to get round them before. China ATC have refused deviation due to weather before and aircraft have returned to land rather than punching through a CB. Not a good thing to try, large aircraft crash by going into CB's as do small ones.

We don't find jetstreams the flight planners do and pick the route for us to fly. They are shown on weather charts. We also have these charts and so know where they are and if we can expect some bumps but do not change the route to try and find them.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

@ Sloppy Joe ... If I seemed a bit sarcastic [OK, VERY sarcastic] do you have a faint feeling that our NZ mate might just be asking some fairly basic questions for someone with a CPL?

Check the post history, read a couple, say teenager? :)

[redsnail]

TTB,

It is possible that the OP does not have an instrument rating nor done the ATPL subjects.

In New Zealand and Australia, you don't need an Instrument rating to get the first job nor do you have to have the ATPL subjects done.

I agree the questions are pretty basic and Google could have answered a couple of them.

[flyboy_nz]

Thanks for the replies guys, even Two-tone blue. The reason I asked about the nose attitude was because of the flight on the 340 from Melbourne to Dubai. It seemed more obvious on the Airbus than say on a Boeing 777. I should have mentioned this on my question.

The CB question, I have a mate who's a FO on a 737 for an airline in India. He told me a story once how they had departed Kolkata and had a CB approaching their flight path during the monsoon season. He asked the Captain if he could divert 12nm left. The Captain said no and they punched through it. They got hit with plenty of hail and some nasty turbulence and icing. Needless to say, my mate nearly crapped his pants. So, a bad decision by the Captain or something the 737 can handle cos it's not the only time this has happened to my mate.

In regards with Jetstreams, the A340 flight from Melb to Dubai I remember during the early stages we were flying with a 150km/hr headwind as shown on the flight info screen. I was wondering if we were flying in a Jetstream. And also, why not fly at a slightly lower altitude where maybe the headwind component was less. I don't remember experiencing any CAT.

And Two-tone blue, I would rather ask these stupid questions now and get hammered on Pprune rather than the Captain I am flying with and who is not happy with my answer of punching through cos 'my mate did it in India'. Thanks for the Jetstream link.

[redsnail]

OK, you've asked some reasonable questions. However, I would also use google to search the answers. It's actually easier to use than the PPRuNe search engine.

Re the TS, bad decision by the captain. TSs are no place to test the structural integrity of any aircraft. The 737 might be able to handle it one time, but another time, maybe not. TS are dynamic things and no two are the same.

Re the jetstream. It is possible that the altitude (or flight level) was blocked, ie traffic in the way. They may have been too heavy to climb up.
The core can be quite a few thousand feet thick.

[eckhard]

Well Flyboy, a brilliant instructor who I greatly admired once told me: 'The only stupid question is the one that isn't asked', so I for one think your questions are entirely reasonable.

Yes, you can find out lots of stuff on Google, but you won't necessarily get the opinions of people who actually fly on a daily basis.

Sloppy Joe gave some great answers and I can't improve on them but if you feel too inhibited to ask any more questions on an open forum, send me a pm and I'll do my best to answer.

Anybody who reckons they have all the answers should give up flying and write a book so that we can all benefit. A constant 'learning curve' is part of what makes this job so interesting!

Eck:ok:

[pilotusa]

Good Lord, some of you guys are truly puffed-up, self-impressed buffoons to answer this low-time pilot's questions the way you did. He's probably praying that he never shares the cockpit with the likes of you (and you know who you are.) I thank God above I never will have to pull gear for any of you sarcastic clowns.

The entire POINT of this thread is to ask questions of people who should be happy to intelligently answer them. Pawning this poor guy off to do a Google search is pathetic. If you don't want to answer, then don't. Keep the smartass comments about this aspiring pilot to yourselves.

[flyboy007]

Flyboy_NZ,

Initially when you guys level off at TOC, the a/c must be pretty heavy (in comparison with TOD). But, I have noticed that when you level off at TOC, the a/c seems to have a slight higher nose attitude (I notice the isle slanting up as I usually sit towards the end) Just before you guys reach TOD, the nose seems level. What I would like to know is that, is this the case because of the weight changing as the fuel is burning, or the nose attitude doesn't change throughout the cruise. We are talking about a long 5hr+ cruise.

Most jets fly with a nose up attitude, some more so than others. Whilst the change over the course of a flight may be small, the angle of attack on the wing would decrease (And also the pitch attitude) as the fuel burns off (for a constant speed). This change in pitch attitude may or may not be noticeable. Personally, as Sloppy says, I guess I'm used to it so don't notice it.

Having said all of that, usually as weight burns off (fuel), the aeroplane flight management system slows the aeroplane slightly, so to maintain a constant Angle of Attack, and therefore level flight. This is because there is an angle of attack which is most efficient. So a heavier aeroplane will fly slightly faster usually, than a lighter aeroplane.

As for flying under jetstreams; it's A) not always possible, and B) not always more efficient. People with brains the size of planets have written algorithms which factor headwind/flight time/crew costs/ maintenance costs/delay costs etc etc, and come up with an optimum flight plan and altitudes. Generally, we fly it if poss. Incidentally an aeroplane flying into a strong headwind will fly at a higher airspeed usually, than in a tailwind. This is to minimise the time the headwind impacts the aeroplane.

Lastly: Do not be disheartened by people such as Two-Tone-Blue.

TTB> you're a Richard head of the highest magnitude. If you thought his questions weren't worthy of your time, don't answer them. But to post ridicule just goes to show your lack of basic manners and consideration. Please enlighten us all as to who you work for, so we may avoid being flown by one with delusions of grandeur. Get over yourself.

[redsnail]

To the folks who've criticised the use of Google. You'll find Google search is much easier to use than the search function on PPRuNe. Especially where three letter abbreviations are concerned aka TLAs.

Google more often than not brings up other PPRuNe discussions on the same or similar topic.

[flyboy_nz]

Thank you flyboy007, pilotusa, redsnail and eckhard. You guys are really kind. It would be my absolute pleasure to fly under you guys. And thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I will do a google search next time but it is always nice when a person takes the time to answer the questions. Also, you can also get a different perspective on it.

Could you guys recommend any good aviation knowledge books to read especially on situational awareness and decision making. I am about to start my ATPLs as well.

[redsnail]

flyboy,
"with" is a better term than "under", trust me on that one. :E

As you're about to start your ATPLs you'll get plenty of reading material. :uhoh: Especially if the NZ ATPL is any thing like the Australian one. (The JAA/EASA one for human factors etc wasn't so bad...)

We now use "HFACS" at work for issues and incidents. It's a very good framework but it's not quite what you need right now.
I would stick to the core requirements as buying text books can be expensive...

[hueyshuffle]

It's not entirely flyboy's fault that he asked about the 'changing' angle of attack. I'm a relatively new instructor on bug-smashers so I don't know very much about big jets...so I didn't know that they fly at the best Lift to Drag ratio..But it does make sense..

However, the syllabus doesn't stress the practical aspects of principles of flight well..thus, although he has a CPL, he would've forgotten about Endurance, Range etc etc. And I agree with some of the sentiments expressed here...if you don't want to answer a question don't. Don't go mouthing off (I'm also sensing a bit of an inferiority complex...TTB??).

Flyboy, read the P of F book again, its actually more interesting when you're not reading it for an exam! On the other hand, I see from some other posts that you're an instructor...which makes it a bit worrying that you're asking about flying through CBs!

[flyboy_nz]

which makes it a bit worrying that you're asking about flying through CBs!

Yes, I am worried too because I am applying for jobs in India. I have heard stories of Indian Captains flying through them, even when the FO has expressed his/her concern. This was my reason for the question - as to can the 737 handle it?

[framer]

re CB's
Sounds like a bad D by the Captain as someone else said. With that in mind it can sometimes be hard to tell if a radar return is a CB with hail in it or just a big CU. Around some parts of India you can have the whole screen showing returns of different kinds and often have to just choose the route you think is best. I;m not defending the decision but just saying that reading radar returns in the wet season can be a complicated subject in itself. Ice doesn't return much (3% of what water does if I remember correctly) so if you have two clouds to choose between the one that looks less severe can be the more dangerous one in some circumstances. Just adding something to think about.
I always liked to read slightly more "user firendly" texts about aviation when I was doing my atpls in my spare time, it kept me interested and also I felt like I wasn't shirking my study because it was work related. It worked for me, if you're the same then "re-defining airmanship" or any books by the same author willl give you plenty of CRM stuff to think about. Have fun, Framer