SAA Recruitment

[ShamanPhoenix]

Hi Guys. Anybody have any idea when SAA is planning to start recruiting again and how many?

[beechbum]

Not sure how many at the moment but a fair few I believe. First batch to commence course in Feb. Believe that it's mostly cadets from SAX and Link to start off......

[jbayfan]

The Chief Pilot stated in a recent public flight operations article that SAA will require 231 new pilots purely to meet expansion plans by the end of 2011. This would be a net gain in pilot numbers as they would also need to fill vacancies left by illness, retirements and dismissals.

[Der absolute Hammer]

So does that mean that like Kenya Airways, Air Botswana and EAA, they will recruit from outside South Africa but inside Africa, and possibly even the Caribbean in order to have type rated pilots flying for them which would keep the initial training costs down as well as being non reflectively politically correct? Or is that nothing but the rumour?

[Q4NVS]

So does that mean that like Kenya Airways, Air Botswana and EAA, they will recruit from outside South Africa but inside Africa...as well as being non reflectively politically correct?

By Law (The Constitution), one can only be credited for a PDI (for Government Compliance) if the individual is a South African Citizen or was eligible to become one before 1994.

Sure, there might be one or two that slip through the cracks, but do not expect an influx from outside our borders, in order to get the numbers right.

The Chief Pilot's article also adresses the way forward for SAA, SAAF and the Government in this regard... MPL = Yes

[ShamanPhoenix]

So anyone have any idea when they will start accepting applications again. The website says they aren't accepting CV's at the moment.

[Q4NVS]

So anyone have any idea when they will start accepting applications again.

The article also says that SAA expects to end 2010 with an excess of 78 Pilots due to the exit of 6 A340-200's as well as 2 B747-400's. This excess should be re-accommodated with the introduction of A330's during 2011.

My guess - not before 2011 :zzz:

[putt for dough]

IMHO gotta be the best job out there here in RSA!
International routes, nearly competitive international salaries,( best of the lot here),new metal being introduced.
If you wanna stay in RSA, what better place to be?

ps: not working there yet!
stay positive. :)

[square leg]

2700 hours on 320... may I just encourage you to hang in there with your hopes. You might just need to add an SA comm or ATP to those hopes and you should be fine. JAR atp on its own won't work afaik. Then obviously the whole interview process is next on the cards. I doubt that they'll be legally able to look at you until you get the SA licence. Write the exams, do the flight test in a seneca/etc or hire their sim (the one you're rated on..). You won't be the first to do it this way and not the last. It's also a myth that you'll need to visit a skin cancer booth, so don't let yourself be held up by what others say. Best wishes to you and the others who posted above.

[four engine jock]

Cape Town - Despite its financial difficulties, South African Airways (SAA) is forking out R307m in sport-related sponsorships over four years, according to Public Enterprises Minister Barbara Hogan.

Replying to a parliamentary question by the Democratic Alliance's Donald Lee, Hogan said SAA was sponsoring Argentine golfer Angel Cabrera for three years up to August 31 this year.

SAA was also providing sponsorship for the Sunshine Golf Tour, ATP Tennis, Cricket SA, SA Rugby, SA Football Association, and ISM Golf Players.

The total value of SAA's sponsorships amounted to R268.3m in cash and R38.7m in free travel, which was spread over four years from 2008 to 2012.

"The individual value per sponsorship is commercially sensitive information and confidential, and thus cannot be disclosed. "Disclosure could be prejudicial to both SAA and the organisation being sponsored," Hogan said.

Lee on Wednesday said the R307m in sports-related sponsorships and free travel for sporting celebrities since 2008 meant that one fifth of the amount designated to SAA in bailout funds last year - R1.6 billion - had been spent on sporting sponsorships and free travel.

The mere fact that SAA had spent such a significant amount on sporting sponsorships, even while simultaneously requiring bailout funds, was difficult to comprehend.

"While the DA acknowledges the need to remain competitive in the global airlines industry, and that sponsorships can aid this, the sheer value of the sponsorships seems astonishing, and it seems highly doubtful that SAA is getting any bang for their buck.

"Faced with a choice of spending R307m on freebies and sponsorships, and financial stability, we would prefer the latter from a state-owned enterprise," Lee said.

The bailouts for SAA over the past five years had come either as cash injections or loans guaranteed by the state.

The history of these bailouts showed that every year the state was paying a fortune to keep SAA afloat - 2004/05 R6.1bn, 2005/06 R2.4bn (conversion of loans to equity), 2006/07 R1.3bn (loan guarantees), 2007/08 R5.4bn, and 2008/09 R1.6bn.



"""My opinion is that the government should stop giving them money!! If they can’t make it on their own the government should privatize them.
At least this way all the other private airlines can compete on a level playing field!!!"""

[millertime]

Where did that last post come from?! I thought the thread was about SAA recruitment. The thread did stay on track for about 12 posts until the bashing started, not too bad I suppose.

[beechbum]

four engine jock............:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Take it somewhere else as millertime mentioned this is to do with SAA recruitment. Ag...:zzz::zzz::zzz: ...boring!

[four engine jock]

I think that all future pilots that want to join SAA should know everything that’s going on there.
Therefore I will post what I feel is necessary information.
Yes SAA is the best paying flying job in South Africa with no doubt after all the TAX payers are footing the bill!!!!

[beechbum]

Sure then open another thread.......hasn't the tax payers footing the bill story been whipped enough! Kinda boring and tiresome don't you think? Sure it's reality but give it a break bro:ok:
Anyway back to the topic.......recruitment going ahead...."it's all happening at the WACA!"

[divinehover]

Dear 4EJ

Your are a fool.

Start your own SAA bashing thread if you want to. Don't cowardly hijack someone else's thread.

DH

[four engine jock]

Come on I am not bashing SAA. Well yes! just a bit. But this pprune. I thought we can write where we want. As to me being a fool, well sometimes I have to admit after having a few dops.
But the truth hurts.
SAA is kind of like ZUMA certain rules don’t apply. Man I hope someone don’t get all HUFF HUFF about that one.
Look in the end I hope that all that get a chance to work for SAA get it. It’s the best around with regards to aircraft and salary.
FEJ

[beechbum]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but what rules don't apply?
Anyway maybe we should start a new thread titled.....I despise SAA because.... of what it does....because I didn't make selection...because I'm jealous of SAA pilots.... because I ain't there.....!!!...Because they spend my tax apyers money...blah blahblah Take your pick, there are many!
Hey,shall we just leave it as it is and return to the topic? Ag please............:ok:

[proceeding outbound]

Interesting that SAA pilots always defend criticism of SAA by accusing others of jealousy or of having failed SAA interviews etc, assuming that other pilots are jealous of them. Time to get over yourselves boys and girls – SAA is certainly a comfy job in SA but just a little fish in a very big pond called Earth.

Many posts change direction or have different points of view – it’s what makes the world an interesting place.

4 EJ, post away, I think it’s a valid point. Most of the negative responses (EG fool) are born of insecurity.

[beechbum]

Of course we want defend the work place we are employed by. Whether it be SAA, Comair, 1Time etc etc...we are proud of where we belong. Aren't we? But look through the archives and I can count on one even maybe two hands as to the amount of anti - SAA talk that appears on these forums. As I mentioned there are many and if someone has to slag or degrade another's work place to make a point, I honestly believe it is uncalled for.

"Your're ugly and your mother dresses you funny." (And this is a general statement........ok...and not directed at anyone!) :};);)

So as said before back to the topic and please open another thread to bash the mere mortals at SAA!
Good luck to all who join...prospects are plenty with over 200 pilots needed over the next few years. It's what I heard not what I know!

[Contract Dog]

I am not sure about SAA being "ugly" but as Mango is SAA's baby, SAA takes on the role of mother, therefor "your mother dresses you funny" is pretty apt! :} whats with that uniform!!!! lol

Jokes aside, and back to the topic, I also heard the same re SAA taking on crew, but what are they looking for re HRS and types flown and total time? And any idea when they will be looking at non cadet guys and gals (ie contract dogs)??? Or do they prefer ex Sax/1 time/Link???

Dog, in a not much prettier uniform.

[proceeding outbound]

Funny, when I read the post it was about the government wasting money, not slagging of SAA or the SAA crew.

Let's be honest, if SAA were privatised there would be nothing to argue about. Even if I worked for SAA I would not be able to justify using tax payers money to compete with private airlines - it's just wrong in my opinion but who said life was fair. No reflection on the crew.

[proceeding outbound]

Oh! A new moderator!

If you want to be a moderator you should have been stopped this thread right at the start as there are dozens of others on exactly the same topic. Somebody should have mentioned the "search before you post" phrase.

[Maurice Chavez]

Very valid point when it comes to privatizing SAA. Especially when they are "forking out R307M" for sport related sponsorships. Instead of wasting their money on nonsense like that, they should pay back their debt to the government. I think what 4EJ posted needs to be seen as well, especially for those who want to be employed by them.

[Ghost_Rider737]

SAA is awesome to work for from a Pilots perspective.Great perks,union,routes...etc. I got in a year and a half ago. Training is excellent . You are nuts if you dont apply !!

I had about 2600 hrs (ATP,turbo-prop and jet experience) when I got in.

[Cue Ball]

Hey Ghost

Well with those credentials when you made it in you:
1) are female or some other PDI
2) your dad works there
3) were in the SAAF
4) were a cadet
5) know somebody on the interview panel

I have been applying regularly for about 8 years now, I clearly do not have any of the above mentioned requirements. I have almost double your total time when you joined and pretty much the same amount of time on medium jet airliners as you had total time. I have not even so much has received an acknowlegment of my application.

CB

[Ghost_Rider737]

CUE BALL.....I am male. Was never a CADET....IM the only PILOT in the family. DIDnot know anyone on the PANEL and was never in the SAAF.

The other guys that got in with me were NOT PDI dudes. 2 from the SAAF and one from a regional airline like me.

Just keep updating your CV. BTW there were afew courses after mine and not more than 5 of the 20 or so selected were cadets . Dont give me that PDI crap ! They hire u on merit . CADET or NOT. If u get in you deserve it ! thats my 2 cents worth. The people on the selection Panel were very fair. No bull they tell u like it is.

On the whole its an excellent outfit. Captains are chilled/relaxed and most drink BEER ;)

[Q4NVS]

I had about 2600 hrs (ATP,turbo-prop and jet experience) when I got in.
Versus

I have been applying regularly for about 8 years now, I clearly do not have any of the above mentioned requirements. I have almost double your total time when you joined and pretty much the same amount of time on medium jet airliners as you had total time. I have not even so much has received an acknowlegment of my application.

And then:

They hire u on merit

I agree with Cue Ball that things don't add up - maybe CB's got the wrong Postal Address :oh:

[Cue Ball]

Q4NVS

Wish I could say it was the wrong postal address but I gave my updated cv's to mates who are there already( maybe they chucked them straight in the trash I dunno but I doubt it). I just find it hard to believe that ghost made it in with those credentials without satisfying at least one of the requirements I mentioned. Oh well good for him he got the job. Think I will just go and print another updated cv and send it in again:hmm:

[four engine jock]

ohannesburg - While South African Airways (SAA) declines to use the "p" word for privatisation, this is in fact happening at the airline, according to economists and unions.

This week SAA issued a tender for parties interested in bidding for stakes in two of SAA's subsidiaries. But SAA spokesperson Vimla Maistry says the airline is planning to retain a majority interest in each of its subsidiaries.

The aim, she says, is to grow the operations and improve them. Currently the SAA Technical division and Voyager are the only units in question. The process of selling a stake in the Technical division will be the gauge for judging the process at other subsidiaries.

Chris Smyth, SAA's acting chief executive, last year said that SAA also wanted sell a stake in Air Chefs - the airline's catering division - as well as SAA Cargo, the freight division.

Kenneth Monnana, the national air transport coordinator for the SA Transport & Allied Workers' Union (Satawu), says his union is opposed to privatisation of any kind.

The union wants SAA to halt the process. It will appeal to the Minister of Public Enterprises, if necessary. If SAA is properly managed there will be no reason to go to the private sector for funding.

Willie van Eeden of the Uasa trade union says privatisation can lead to staff cuts.

Mike Schüssler, an economist at Economists.co.za, says that the move is a good sign that government is becoming more pragmatic with regard to private interests in state companies.

This has become evident in the case of Eskom, he points out, where government is seeking private investors for its new power stations. Government realises the way forward is to involve the private sector.

Two businesses that have previously expressed interest in the Technical division are the German airline Lufthansa and Air France.

[Gyro Nut]

Suitcaseman, it's only professional jealousy to say your fellow pilots should take a 50% paycut. This is a pilots forum for goodness sake, not a bean counters forum.

[theBOSS]

Suitcaseman......so please tell us where u work and how much you earn...yster!

[excontactdog]

Ghost_Rider737 , just to clarify, are you a white male?

[Brutus 5]

Focus children, FOCUS!!!!!!!!:}

[Cardinal Puff]

Focus? Not with all these egos around....:}

[jbayfan]

A couple of months ago the rumour at SAA was a net gain of over 230 pilots by the end of 2011. Now the rumour is that we could be shrinking.

Worst of all for pale males is that the selection board is not allowed to interview any white males unless they have an extraordinary qualification (whatever that means??)

[CJ750]

If the South African Air Force can use PDI Non South African Citizens then what is stopping SAA from doing that as well.

There is no more Law and Order in this country anymore. TIA. Live with it. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Gyro Nut]

Has the cadet pilot scheme been canned, or it is still going?

[Der absolute Hammer]

That is what East African Airways, Air Botswana and Swazi have all done in the past and paid much less for a continental contract pilot than a national of whatever reflectivity . Some of these guys from the outside world can be multi lingual also, speaking French and English as also their own language. This rasies the preception of the education of the national carrier's pilots throughout the world of five star hotels and departure halls.

[CJ750]

Some of these guys from the outside world can be multi lingual also, speaking French and English as also their own language. This rasies the preception of the education of the national carrier's pilots throughout the world of five star hotels and departure halls.

DAH

What has language got to do with it.
Not sure about your last sentence . You taking a dig at the SAA / Airline pilots.

Just trying to understand your last post. :confused::8:E

[davidjh]

As much as nobody who is in any management position would like to admit it (publicly), SAA has only considered white pilots in recent years when it has been absolutely necessary to do so. I emigrated in 2005 when I realised that SAA was just out of my reach. I'm no extraordinary pilot, but I did feel that I had the qualifications (7000 hours total and a Grade 1 DE). I flew for a regional airline, on a jet, at the time. What really "nailed" it for me was a telephonic conversation with one of the Captains who was on the selection board. I thank him for his honesty because it was then that I realised that I was now from the wrong "demographic" group and it would remain an uphill struggle to achieve my long-term professional goals.

I now fly a Gulfstream corporate jet in international operations and have gained some amazing experience from North America to Hong Kong and lots in between!
Despite this, guess what I did this year?? I sent my CV, via a friend who is in SAA, to the Chief Pilot!! And guess what??? The answer was exactly the same again! Did I loose heart? You bet! Will I give up? Not just yet! I still have this dream, one that I've had for a long time, and I'm not ready to relinquish it just yet.
So, despite the title that I chose, all I can say to any pilot out there, SA expat or not, if you want to get into SAA, keep on trying! Who knows...that window/door might just open at the time that you do!

Good luck to all of you out there who also have a dream.

[NOTOT]

Does being able to juggle 7 balls whilst singing inkosi-sikileli(in all 11 official languages), balancing on one toe and a sword clamped between my other toes(sharp end up) count???:D:ugh:

[Der absolute Hammer]

No-no-not having a dig at those blaubosbokkies at all. Just made comment on the fact that in the minds of some to employ demographicly suitable outlanders at the expense of indiginous irradescent inlanders might be excused if the cosmopolitan face of the crew was enhanced by the perceived ability to speak foreign languages-an ability not usually found in South Africans of the white variety, or the Anglo Saxon in general I quickly say.
I can remember when it was no good applying for SAA unless you spoke Afrikaans or had an Afrikaaner name or were ex SAAF or had a personal from one or two of the senior training captains or came from Safair. Whatever turns on the big Marshmallow at selection board is okay but the bias thing has seemed always an integral part of SAA selection - narrow minded and bigoted? Well why not?

[Trawler]

Sorry to burst your bubble but I am Afrikaans, SAAF trained and knew some people in SAA but annoyed a particular Mister Aviation in SAA. Trying for 12 years and even made it all the way through till a sudden third interview brought me face to face with said person and was shown the door again. Still happily flying outside of SAA. The moral of the story, don't p:mad:ss off the powers in SAA. To everybody good luck

[Shrike200]

I find this difficult to believe, or rather, do not want to believe that the 'white south african male' is being activity discriminated against.

Ermmmm.....yeah, that's pretty much happening all the time. It's all cool though, it's called affirmative action, so everythings all good and legit, no irony or failure of morality or anything like that, no sir...

[Cizzy]

Straight from the horse of the chief of the selection board at SAA's mouth :-

(1) The rumour that SAA will be looking for pilots outside of SA to fill the BEE gap is not true. Anyone that is not a south african citizen will not be considered. The only foreign pilots that will be flying for SAA are contractors on a wet lease over the world cup on foreign aircraft to help SAA with the excess flying demands.

(2) White females are no longer considered 'previously disadvantaged'.....so this will make it harder for them to get into SAA.

(3) There are 47 SAA cadets that need to get into SAA before SAA will even consider looking at any other pilot applications and at this stage there are too many pilots in SAA so its not looking good for folks that are hoping to get in this year.

(4) The previous number of 231 pilots needed for SAA's expansion from 2011 to 2013 is not going to happen anymore as SAA have cancelled their order of 4 long haul A/C and 4 shorthaul A/C. The only A/C SAA are still getting are the 330's to replace the 340-200's that are leaving.

[Arcla]

So Cizzy...is that a no then???:zzz:

[proceeding outbound]

231 Pilots for 8 aircraft??????????/

No wonder SAA cant make money!

[Gyro Nut]

You need to take retirements, of which there are going to be a lot in the next 2-3 yrs into account as well. Around 55 guys will be retiring in the next 3 yrs.

[tuirbo tim]

Just got the latest Seniority List from a mate of mine in SAA, and we worked out:

10 retirements in 2010
14 in 2011
22 in 2012.

That is 46 in the next 3 years, 47 cadets and who know how many EE pilots out there, so I am sure not much will happen until at least 2013 or even 2014.

Come and join us in the sand-pit !!!!!

:*:*:*

TT

[Maurice Chavez]

Funny that for 8 aircraft they needed 231 pilots, OR could it be, that the SACAA WAS going to enforce a mandatory age 65 retirement for domestic commercial operations??? Heard the age 65 rule for domestic has now been canned again. Funny innit???

[Helios Seeker]

Greetings, new to the Forum...so be gentle!

I have a question concerning SAA and if they still have cruise relief pilots on the long haul a/c who also fly F/O on a narrow body a/c. I recently read some data that indicated that SAA mainted about 120 pilots in a dual qual status on the 737/A320 and CRP on the 744. This data is about 10 years old. So I am curious if that is still a crewing scheme at SAA.

Thanks for any help.

[FMGEC]

Hi Helios SAA no longer allow "cross-manufacturer" IFR flying (i.e. A320/B744). The A319 pilots though are rated on and fly as IFR on the A340 and the B738 guys on the B744.

[FMGEC]

And for the mathematical sceptics who were quick to divide 231 by 8 you need the full story: The plan was for 3 widebodies over 3 years (not happening) and 2010 4 narrow bodies (not happening) 2012 6 A320/A321 (still on) 2013 2 A320/A321 (still on) So that's 15 a/c over 3 years plus 68 retirements by the end of 2013. Also not all pilots go to full retirement age (only about 80% actually) Notwithstanding the above I heard at the new CEO's briefing she said the 2 biggest challenges facing SAA are the balance sheet and the need for growth. So I'll hold thumbs for all of you out there, don't give up yet. SAA is a great place to fly.

[Helios Seeker]

Hi Helios SAA no longer allow "cross-manufacturer" IFR flying (i.e. A320/B744). The A319 pilots though are rated on and fly as IFR on the A340 and the B738 guys on the B744


Thanks FMGEC!

[WRX737]

Interesting, there are plans afoot to let the freighter pilots (B732 and B733) already rated on the A340, do P3 flying again.

[tuirbo tim]

Hey, got word SAA is looking at pale males. Any info for us in the sand pit??????

[sky waiter]

Too late man those that have been selected have already been called and the sim rides are done/being done. My advice get you CV in and hope and pray (like i am doing). I wasn't called though so clearly its not working.... :)

[Turbine9]

Good Day Guys

Could some one please tell me whats the correct email address to send cv`s to for SAA and who should one contact with regard to this matter

thanks

[Propellerpilot]

The way to go is via the website - if the link is not active, there is no current demand.

[Turbine9]

hey

Thanks for the reply

I think there should be some sort of a address one could submit a cv to keep on record and review for future purpose,Is there perhaps a number or contact person some member has who i could speak to with regard to this matter

thanks

[Shrike200]

SAA is notoriously......unprofessional (my choice of words, but thats what I think of it) when it comes to handling CV's. I'm sorry, but it's like sending a message into a black hole - nothing comes back out. There's no feedback, or way that I know of to track your application, nor is there an easy way to update your details. It seems that you must hunt for the non-available excel file, then send repeated volumes with certified copies of everything. I'm sure there are others who know the process better than I do, but that's the way it seems to be. There will never really be a shortage of applicants, so they feel no need to improve on this behaviour. Also, their choices seem random. Grade I, DE, brilliant guy, tertiary qualifications, excellent experience levels on a wide variety of types? Hmmm...no, we'll take the other guy with none of that thanks!

I can only go on what I've heard, since I've only applied twice - this is what I pick up from those who've made it their ambition to be part of SAA. Information directly from SAA is hard to come by. I think it should be said out loud - SAA, your recruitment process seems chaotic and lacks a degree of transparency that should be there, IMHO.

[jbayfan]

SAA is about to hire 25 pilots this year and 20 early next year. These are rough figures. Many of the new hires are highly experienced white males with a minimum of 5000 hours total time and command time at one of the other local and regional carriers in SA. The biggest stumbling block for many of them is the notice period they are required to give to their current airlines.

The majority will be direct entry FO's, specifically where they are already rated on similiar types to those operated by SAA.

There are cadets being hired but only those who are ready to move to SAA and who pass the selection process. The cadets generally go straight into the right seat on a domestic fleet primarily because of historic issues with sub-standard PDI's who occupied the P3 seat for a few years and then failed their P1 (FO) ratings. Now they can wash them immediately and fill the seat with more deserving candidates.

Life, unfortunately, is not fair. If one looks at the seniority list at SAA there are many PDI and female pilots whose age is way out of sync with the white male pilots of similiar seniority. Then there is the black Captain who took SAA to the CCMA and had his seniority backdated to when he had a CPL and 300 hours.

However, once you are in then I will be the first to admit that there is no better airline in the world to work for. If I was offered a direct entry Captain position with any airline in the world, I would turn it down, and I am still an FO at SAA with 13 years of service as a pilot.

All I can say is keep trying and keep sending in those CV's. If you are struggling to get your CV to SAA, PM me and I will give you my email address and will print out and personally hand deliver your CV to the right department.

[Alternative]

jbayfan,
An amendment to your last, no cadets have been invited to these interviews..........literally all pale males, 5000 plus hours.....and probably a handful of PDI's with similar experience!!!