Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread! [Archive] - Page 4

JDB275

15th Mar 2017, 12:54

Hello,
First of all i am looking for advice from the people in this forum who have actual experience in this area and have gone through process' similar to the ones i plan on going through.

I am currently finishing an aerospace engineering Beng degree from Sheffield university (finishing modules from home in south wales), initially i had read a lot about the integrated courses that CTC/OAA and FTE offer and i was sure that was the route i wanted to take to get into the left seat as quickly as possible with the most prestigious school. But now i know there is no way i could take a loan out and secure it against a house. I would like to fund it off my own back. Funding it myself there is no way i could afford the £80000 price tag most major integrated UK routes cost.

Im now looking into modular training with various different flying schools and i was hoping to get some advice on the best route to take. I want to learn in the UK, in order to afford the fee's of modular training im going to have to get some sort of job probably in engineering. However the cost of modular training in the UK is still around £40-50k so im guessing its going to take me absolutely ages with say a 20k graduate job. Also ive heard sponsorships are very few and far between so i cant bank on that.

As im currently living in south wales with family i dont have any living costs which i was hoping to use to my advantage and maybe save to get my PPL with Aeros based in Cardiff (if anyone can vouch for them?).

Still i have no idea which FTO i would choose for ATPL theory exams. Or who i would choose for ME CPL/IR/MCC/ JOC. Ive looked into schemes like CTC takeoff and OAA Waypoint but they're way to expensive. Ive also been looking into FTE integreated flight deck programme based in spain however even thats £63k.

Another thing i was worried about is how long the modular route is going to take, given that i will have a full time job, im not sure how much of the training you can actually do part time. Or would it be better to get the PPL (10K) whilst working full time and then save save save untill i could afford the £40-50k for the ATPL theory/ME CPL/IR/MCC/ JOC. Or would it be better to get a loan for the ME CPL/IR/MCC/ JOC part and pay that back later on somehow.

Would appreciate some advice, thanks.

utd4life12

30th Mar 2017, 18:06

Hi there,

I'm in a very much similar position to you, except living up in Yorkshire with family and about to graduate with a Law degree. So whilst I can't offer any advice, I'm also looking for the exact same advice you are in terms of best training routes, so hopefully we can get some good info :) I'd also intitially thought integrated was the way, but I'm now modular all the way!

utd4life12

31st Mar 2017, 22:06

Just out of curiosity, would you guys still advise Modular route over an MPL with an Airline, let's say Easyjet MPL for example?

captain.weird

1st Apr 2017, 18:37

Depends.

I went modular and I don't regret it all. My loan is low comparing it to MPL and integrated students. But the MPL students have a secured job. Which you can't find easily while going modular. If you can entry a MPL programme, go for it. But keep the loan in your mind, which will give you a headache.

But paying off your loan while cruising at FL380 is much better than flipping burgers.

unskilledcrayon

8th Apr 2017, 18:47

Hey JDB275 - Im in a similar boat to you, I'm from Wales, just graduated from University starting a graduate job near London. Seems like it will take a while to save to get the modular route. I had a trial lesson and Cardiff Aeros and I think they're fairly decent, in terms of value for money: Wolverhampton flight school is pretty cheap for a PPL, if you saved about 7.5k then went to Wolverhampton flight school you could do it in a few weeks.

Ryanaf

15th Apr 2017, 11:27

Hi all,

I don't think there's a specific thread for this, apologies if there is. I'm a newbie, about to start a PPL on the modular route to the cockpit. I'm mid 30s to time isn't particularly on my side.

I'm just interested in pilots posting here with real success stories on who they fly for and how they got there. Mainly modular students but also integrated too to balance up the argument.

The reason I'm tentative about starting down this path is a) Deciding which is the best route but also b) from reading this forum, is it really worth the investment to do it at all?

Some lead you to believe that the world will be your oyster once you have a fATPL and others seem to suggest it's largely irrelevant because if you don't have an extra £25k to pay an airline for TR then you won't get a job anyway.

I'm wondering how ethically sound the whole industry is when you have to pay someone to give you a job. I have the means through success in my other career to fund training to an extent but my fear is that I'd get priced out of the market by all the rich 18 year olds with bottomless pockets. I think the industry realises that money is no object for many pilots.

I'm passionate about achieving this goal but it cannot be at 'any cost'. Investing life savings into something isn't something I'm going to take lightly so any positive spins on this would be most beneficial.

Also any insights into re-occurring costs would be great. I.e say I have a fATPL and don't get employment, do I have to re-validate every year and pay thousands whilst waiting for that job? I realise the medical needs renewing every year too.

Lots of questions and still no clear path!

cavok_flyer

26th Apr 2017, 06:47

That being said. what I (50 years old, so the majors are not an option) worked out as an end goal: Freelance pilot (CPL/IFR MEP) with a FI rating. To reach this goal I chose the modular route since I can work and train at the same time. Figured 50K Euros by the time all is said and done, over 4 years. Making a per year investment of 12,500€ (about 1000€ per month) and I hope for a ROI of about 10% on that inverstment when I retire. I have a good paying job, flexible work hours, solid family support, and the drive to get it done. BUT MY SITUATION IS NOT LIKE ANYONE ELSES. My advice, sit down, do the math, work out how many hours you need (145 hours for PPL = 100 Theory + 45 flying, 650 ATPL Theory, 50 hours IFR flying time time, CPL 15 flying hours, MEP + MEP IFR 11 hours, FI 115 hours theory and flying).

When you work out the costs, add at least 10% for any extras (maps, headphones, landing fees, beers with FI) or unexpected issues. There is no magic solution, but if you sit down, analyze, and try to work out plan, you will definitely be further ahead than the folks who just dive in without thinking.http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

rharish96

9th Jul 2017, 20:55

It seems that many (although by no means all) on this website recommend that Modular Training be done at 1 to 2 schools. Does this mean that the PPL, ATPL Theory, CPL/ME/IR, and MCC/JOC should all be done at 1 to 2 schools, or simply that only the CPL/ME/IR be done at 1 to 2 schools? Thanks!

Liveforthesky

11th Jul 2017, 20:08

I'm wondering the same thing :)

kveldur

23rd Jul 2017, 19:43

I have my PPL and just about to finish my last theoretical ATPL exam. I have been browsing for a school to finish my multi-engin, IR and maybe some hour-building and have been looking at school all over europe without really knowing if it is a good school or not. Anyone have any solid recommendation?

Kenneeeh

17th Aug 2017, 00:31

Im stuck in the same situation as many in this thread and need to evaluate my choices wisely.So im 19 ive recently just finished my a levels and realised i didnt want to go to uni so went straight into a job baggage handling.

I realised i then had a massive passion to become a pilot and after a summer i changed jobs and im now a cargo loader/loadmaster at ema.Now 5 hrs into my ppl at sfc egbn and trying to save every month to fund my dream.ive realised the company i work for does have a pilot cadet scheme but i bet its hard to get on. I just need advice on funding and wheres best to do my training as i live in Derby and i can't find much

Liveforthesky

5th Nov 2017, 11:39

Hi guys,

People tend to advise that you should do your modular training a 1 or 2 schools. Does this include your PPL or is that not an issue?

JumboJet1999

5th Nov 2017, 20:20

Liveforthesky

It is only concerning the CPL, IR and possibly MER (makes sense so that you get used to exactly the same twin you'll use for your ME-IR) where it is advisable to stick with the one single school; on the other hand, the PPL and hour building in particular (including your NR, IR(R) etc. if desired) can be done wherever you wish. If distance learning especially, the ATPL theory course will most likely have to be done with a separate school.

I am led to believe it was only Flybe who have had this as a prerequisite for modular candidates from a while back, though it appears to have evolved into a rule of thumb for modular guys since.

It is probably a good way of going about your training anyway.

Liveforthesky

5th Nov 2017, 21:03

That's brilliant advice, thank you :)

rudestuff

5th Nov 2017, 22:49

Guys, there are two things you need to land a job: 1) a license 2) to get yourself sat in front of the interviewer. If you can manage that, no one is going to care what your average exam score was, or how many schools you went to. At that point they're looking to see if you'll fit in. Getting a license is the easy bit, figuring out 2) is the tricky bit. Other than that, to save a bit of cash don't bother getting an MEP rating.

JumboJet1999

6th Nov 2017, 00:10

Yes, good point regarding the MEP rating;

When working towards gaining the 'frozen' ATPL, one only needs to complete the training but not necessarily sit the 1hr skills test, which will save you several hundred £s.

Unless of course, you wish to fly such machines commercially or the thought of spending £450ph to hire a twin for personal use is your cup of tea. .

rudestuff

But what if your CV gets chucked in the bin before you even get a chance to sit in front of that interviewer, due to not meeting some petty requirements stated in the job advert for certain ATPL pass rates or training at a certain (number of) school(s) etc.?

rudestuff

6th Nov 2017, 10:16

That's why it's the hard part. You need to think outside the box. Often petty requirements are there to whittle thousands down to hundreds, so you have to find a way around the system. I've seen pilots asked by HR if they know anyone looking for a job - even though there is a huge pile of CVs on the desk. Knowing someone on the inside is the key, so get to know people. If they like you, you're in. Network.

Maverick97

18th Nov 2017, 00:56

Hi all,

I'm currently studying for my PPL locally. However I have my eyes set further down the runway. I've mapped together a loose training plan and it would be wonderful if I could get some feedback?

PPL+NR (local) 6,000.
Hour Build- 6,000.
ATPL Theory- BGS 4,500
CPL/ME/IR- Diamond Flight Academy 25,000
MCC/JOC - ? (budgeting approx 9,000?)

Total training cost touching 50,500 in total including exam fees and maintenance.

Training at the above schools would open doors to the Wings Alliance APC. I was also told that L3 are actively placing their AQC students with airlines such as easyjet and Wizz.

Any thoughts?

ComeFlyWithB

18th Nov 2017, 12:49

Your location looks to be cheaper than mine for sure! From being in the same boat looking further down the line I spent awhile looking into all this so heres my experience so far.

PPL costs can vary depending on an upfront payment for the entire cost vs pay as you fly. For example if I paid upfront for mine it would've been £8,300 at my chosen school for everything incl first exam attempts and so on. Pay as you go I've been advised to budget about 500 more incl books and misc bits and pieces like maps, maybe a headset,

NR - Ball park figure I've found is £1000

Hour Building - can vary massively depending what you're learning on / what you'll hour build with and if you hire from a club, buy a share and so on which is something I've just made a post about actually for myself using a club A/C for around 85/90hrs £8,000 roughly.

ATPL Theory - I plan on doing this distance learning if possible which comes in at around £2,000 BGS Via Bartolini Air.

CPL/IR/MEP - Now this is the tricky one, the IR alone can cost close to the amount for all 3 depending where you go to. From what I've looked at (wings alliance calculator). I hadn't heard of Diamond Flight Academy to be honest prior to reading your post. I plan on doing the CPL/IR/ME at Bartolini Air in Poland. at present its £15990 with the current exchange rate adding on around 1000 or so for accommodation, flight and incidentals like food

MCC/JOC - I haven't looked too much into this to be honest but from a quick search around 2400 up to 9000 at CTC

I have friends who have been modular and integrated both now with airlines incl the Qatar MPL via L3 and Thomson via modular. I had the opportunity to attempt to get a place on the EASYJET MPL but decided this was the better course of action.

Just as a side note and to be taken with a pinch of salt a friend of a friend who recently finished up a whitetail program at CTC has been excluded from applying to easy jet and wizz whilst there MPL/ATPL programs are open, despite being 'sold the hold pool dream' from day 1. I believe he interviewed at jet2 with no luck and is now considering freight / biz jet options. So I personally wouldn't spend a vast amount more just to be placed in a hold pool with a lot of other people and going down the pecking order over each subsequent month when the same can be achieved for less but thats just me.

If you do the CPL/IR/ME at Bartolini you get placed in their hold pool for Adria thus making an expensive AQC obsolete (in my opinion) another option which is something I've done myself is get a job with an airline in some capacity to get a foot in the door as it were. All in all if everything goes to plan my overall costs should be around £40,000 give or take £5,000

Hope this can help!

thisishomebrand

2nd Feb 2018, 12:27

Looking for thoughts and advice on the following options I am considering:

EasyJet MPL - £109k - massive loan

Modular
PPL - £8,320 - Stapleford
NR - £950 - Stapleford
Hour Building - £11,000 - Stapleford
ATPL exams - £4,500 - BGS
CPL/ME/IR - £23,000 - Diamond
MCC/JOC - £9,000 - Wings Alliance/L3

Peripherals plus exams fees etc - £1,000

Total - £56,770

All with Bartolini
PPL - £7,900
NR - £1,025
Hour Building - £11,000
ATPL exams - £17,000
CPL/ME/IR - £9,000

Peripherals plus exams fees etc - £1,000
Accommodation - £4,000
Living Expenses - £3,000

MCC/JOC - £9,000

Total - £63,925

I am inclined to go with Bartolini as it is an all in one course, but am interested in people’s thoughts. Also I might be slightly overstating some of the costs, but that’s on the basis it’s prudent to budget like that.

Jaair

2nd Feb 2018, 14:17

The first modular route looks good to me (don't want to put all your eggs in one basket like in the second route - might as well do integrated I'd say).

And regarding the Easy loan - unless you are able to fund a significant amount out of your pocket I would not recommending taking out such a big loan, especially with no guarantees at the end.

rudestuff

2nd Feb 2018, 14:40

FAA PPL 40 hours (includes night rating) one month - £5000
45 hours hour building, 2 weeks - £2500
40 hours IR training, one month - £5100
45 hours hour building, 2 weeks (to include 35 hours IFR) - £2500
Flights - £500
3 months accommodation and car hire £3000 (you would pay for meals anyway)
Visa/flight tests - £1000 US COST: £19,600
=======================
Atpl distance learning course - CATS - £1500
Exams. - £1000
=======================
EASA PPL - £1000 (to hang your CBIR on because you want to do that first)
MEP training (you don’t need to take the test) - £3000
CBIR (10 hours multi) - £6000
CPL (15 hours Arrow) - £4000 UK COST: £16,500

Total spend: £36,100 plus your choice of MCC

thisishomebrand

2nd Feb 2018, 15:48

rudestuff, is that with particular place/school in the US in mind or more just ballpark figures that I can aim for?

rudestuff

2nd Feb 2018, 19:54

Those were actual figures from flying academy (one of the first ones that cane up in Google) - I converted to GBP and rounded up. Hour building rates from fast time building. There's no point converting a CPL, but a CBIR will save a fortune.

GAPilot261087

4th Feb 2018, 22:53

Been doing a lot of reading on the forums over the last 2 years regarding ATPL ground school and Modular vs Integrated. Myself like many others can't fathom paying upwards of 100k when people who pay half of that figure end up in the same job. I have applied to integrated schemes run by OAA, FTEJ etc. I even got to the last stage of one with Flybe for the MPL course. When I look back, I am glad things worked out the way they did.

The best small bit of advice I can give as someone who has finished his planning to go ahead with modular training and has enrolled on ATPL ground school is this. Microsoft Excel. Create a master spread sheet and spend hours if not days looking online for training providers and match it up with accommodation, materials, flights, living cost and put it all into a easy to look at spreadsheet format etc. It gives you options and can always be edited or updated. Time is your friend when you are not already in debt. get yourself inspired for the journey. I now have a plan that if all goes well may end in a job for roughly 67K. Not the cheapest figure but it does account for a potential job that I have a good chance of getting an interview for should my flying abilities be at the best standard they can be and my exams all good passes.

Incase anyone was wondering what mines kinda looks like, I shall put most of it below.

CAA Class One Medical
£450-£500

(I already hold a Class 2 for my PPL and have no health issues to date)

ATPL exams -CAPT Ground School Course(Inc exams, equipment)
£2600

(It's a distance learning course but I luckily have a CAA exam centre 5 mins from my house and the classroom learning is also done 5 mins from my home)

Hour Building - Fly in Spain (75h PIC flying inc flights&accom)
£11000

(not the cheapest option but it's in european airspace which my PPL covers and provides good flying weather and a shorter time scale for completion)

ME/IR/CPL - Diamond Flight Academy (inc flights and accommodation)
£23189

(This school looks really impressive. The Instructors, accommodation and the aircraft all get great reviews and hype. Definitely worth looking into. I was sold at the word DA42NG and someone else online saying some of the instructors worked for Diamond designing the aircraft and have invaluable tips and knowledge.)

MCC/JOC - Simtech, Dublin
£4026 (Inc accommodation/flights)

(anyone wanting to go Ryanair should look this school up. A lot of placements with FR and it's in Dublin... No need to say any more) -

Ryanair Type Rating Scheme
£26k (converted from price in euros)

(I actually happen to currently work for FR so having friends and colleagues where I want to be is something I am very fortunate to have. Anyone who is 18+ and looking to become an airline pilot should look for seasonal work on check-in desks at your local international airport. Best move I ever did at 18 and it sure beats working on a shop floor when you can be gaining crucial airline ground experience which proves invaluable for interviews and CV's I have been told by numerous interviewers and pilots.)

Finally, Good luck Guys and Gals on the same boat as me! Wish everyone the best of luck with training :)

Jaair

5th Feb 2018, 17:11

GAPilot261087, looks like a nice breakdown. I would budget around 35k GBP for the type rating though. I know a few people who have had to spend around €40k for it due to accommodation etc.

miguel22

6th Feb 2018, 13:00

Hour Building - Fly in Spain (75h PIC flying inc flights&accom)
£11000

(not the cheapest option but it's in european airspace which my PPL covers and provides good flying weather and a shorter time scale for completion)

May I know in which airplane you planned the 11K for the time building? Around 165€/hour including accomodation seems a really good price.

Thanks and good luck! :ok:

GAPilot261087

6th Feb 2018, 14:00

I would have to agree. 26k is just for the course. Depending on where you do the TR and time scale, accommodation may be pricey in some places. I have a few friends who did it in CAE Amsterdam say to budget extra. There is more miscellaneous costs involved with insurance, uniform etc but I think if you have successfully gained a job then that is definetly less of a worry.

GAPilot261087

6th Feb 2018, 14:12

I have planned for the C150. I suppose it comes down to availability in the end though doesn't it. I normally fly PA28s in the UK but that is to go with friends and family. 75hrs on a C150 comes up at €8475 and then when you take into account landing fees and accommodation it does add up especially as its 75 landings if not more at around €15-20! Then there is accommodation and flights to and from Jerez. I think the planning of all the flying training is just important as the training itself.

Good luck to you also my friend! :)

rudestuff

6th Feb 2018, 14:31

Good price?! There's no reason to pay more than €100 an hour for hourbuilding.

Jaair

6th Feb 2018, 14:50

I agree with rudestuff here, if you're willing to go abroad to hour build then the US would be much more economical.

GAPilot261087

6th Feb 2018, 22:04

I have been very tempted with the alternative cheap USA option and have numerous quotes for the same hours that are indeed cheaper per flying hour however, there is a few things that make me more inclined to do it in Spain.

Spains airspace is pretty simple from what I've checked and has lots of similarities to the UK. It also works with skydemon to make life a bit easier but I suppose you can get forelight for the US..
The USA does also require learning a whole bunch of new procedures both flying and RT. It probably would be manageable to learn but what I have found is once you add up the cost of flights to and from, accommodation, renting a car, spending money for food and fuel (depending on dry or wet lease), it works out very similar to doing it in Spain.

I also must admit that I love going on holiday to Spain so it kinda gives the best of both for me!

r10bbr

6th Feb 2018, 23:33

i agree but as rudestuff said earlier if you go to the states you can also save money in the long run by doing faa add on's to your current license, where it permits, again it comes down to money and time, i may look at states within the next few months or just go to spain or neighbouring states etc

GAPilot261087

7th Feb 2018, 00:07

It's certainly a good option if you are really wanting to budget and experience the US. I'd love to do some flying in the US at some point but personally, I would't consider doing more than hour building in the US and some multi engine time at most. I looked at doing the conversions route before and asked various line captains and even a TRI/E about it. I was basically told to stick with doing it in Europe under EASA. Apparently it is easy to tell in the sim if someone has learned IR in the USA due to certain traits. Not really sure what the errors might be but I took their word for it as I trust there opinions.

But then again, this may just be the case with certain trainees. Given that Rudestuff is an airline pilot who has been there and done it, I am sure doing a CBIR and everything works perfectly fine. There is obviously not just one correct way to do things. Personal preference really. I am gonna stick to doing my flying training in Europe if I can :)!

tourz

2nd Mar 2018, 18:20

Hello everyone,

First I'm sorry if my message is a little bit too personal, but I really need some advice since I'm about to choose my path for getting my EASA ATPL.

I'm a cabin crew working for Emirates (so based in Dubai) and I was planning to start this year a training at Superior Air (in Greece) while continuing to fly as cabin crew so i could pay my training.
Then i looked into Air France who just started again their cadet training and it looked amazing for me however i would need to have the ATPL theory to apply for this job.
So i checked for a school in UK to get my ATPL but realized I needed to get the PPL first before going for ATPL.

So my question is : Should i go for the full package with superior air and take 1,5 / 2 years but without flying experience, and then look for a company like Ryan Air etc ,
or should I do it step by step with first the PPL, then ATPL theory and try my luck with Air France cadets after that ?

-Any other suggestions ?

Sorry again but my mind is going everywhere now and I'm trying to get some opinions outside of my EK colleagues .

Cheers !

GAPilot261087

3rd Mar 2018, 01:01

Tourz,

IMO, you have to really ask yourself what you want in terms of training location, can you keep your job or not and can you afford not to work, price point and chances of success, passing all training and getting a job which is the tricky bit and harder than it sounds. In my case, I am doing the learning all modular. I already hold a PPL and work for Ryanair ground staff whilst doing it all and will be leaving my job to commit to the flying phase once my ATPL exams are out of the way. I posted what my route looks like and some reasoning for it a few posts ago.

For me, The PPL was a really important thing because I was able to gauge if I loved flying as much as I thought I did to justify committing 60k towards it as a career and also to find out if I was mentally suitable to fly safely whilst still enjoying it. I did it intensively over two months on an intensive PPL course at Tayside Aviation in Scotland. I did it this way for the simple reason so that I could test my ability to fly all the time whilst learning and doing the ground exams etc. It went quick and was a challenge some days but it was as close to line flying as I could get without being on an intensive integrated ATPL course and 100k later... I proved to myself I was mentally and physically capable of flying every day and it gave me real confidence. I would really recommend gaining a PPL anyways because it's yours for life and you can really enjoy it like many professional pilots do on weekends and other days. General Aviation flying is so fun!

Keep looking at training options however. Don't put pressure on yourself to make a quick decision because thats how you end up in a bad situation with a lot of money at stake. I also suggest you maybe visit a few more flight schools you like the look of and discuss finance, training plan, success stories and compare them to what you want. I actually went to a pilot careers live event in London that is hosted every year 2 or 3 times but they also do them in different locations where all the big schools and others you maybe haven't found yet will attend and speak to you in person.

If you are Cabin Crew, Speak to some younger first officers within EK who are likely to have been in your shoes not long ago and they can provide some insight. I still to this day speak to pilots through my work and get lots of good advice and recommendations from them. I am also pretty sure emirates has a training school now in the UAE so even look internally within them.

I am doing my ATPLs just now and I can tell you straight up that you will get a shock when you start to see how much work is involved. Not even PPL exams and learning can prepare you for the amount of volume that you must learn. People don't lie when they say it's challenging haha. I however have spaced mine out over a year and do not have to worry about integrated timescales to complete them. Some big airlines want 90% grade average on them from candidates applying for jobs and some airline on the other hand don't bother as long as you passed them all.

Lastly, I wish you good luck in your decision and wish you every success!

tourz

3rd Mar 2018, 05:46

Hello GAPilot261087,

Thanks for all these details that's nice of you !

Actually I think my path will have to look like yours , since I can't afford the training if I stop working, and my job gives me the chance to visit a school in Europe quite often I feel it's the best way.
I also foolow you on the fact that starting with my PPL will also help me because I will get the chance to fly before starting the heavy part that is the ATPL.

"I however have spaced mine out over a year and do not have to worry about integrated timescales to complete them"
I think from the moment you start your first exam you still have to respect a certain timeframe like 18 months for completing everything right ?

And if I follow this way as well (PPL ---> ATPL theory) there wont be any flying with that, isn't it better to be able to fly at the same time ?

Thanks again for your nice reply

GAPilot261087

3rd Mar 2018, 20:24

The 18 month timescale begins at the end of the sitting of the first exam I believe. You can however take as long as you like to learn the material before your first exams as an enrolled modular ATPL student. An integrated school does it over 6 months full time and usually takes 2 sittings which is a lot of knowledge and exams to do in that time period. It does often work but it’s not feasible if like me you want to work and learn.

Well not necessarily, I am still flying whilst learning my ATPL exams. Once you have your PPL, you can start to hour build to the 150h total time requirement and 100 of those hours must be Pilot in Command which is the crucial part. You must have 45 hours total time to do a PPL skills test so that’s nearly 50 hours straight away that also gives you with a licence to go flying when you want and nearly 50 hours off your goal of 150h to start the advanced training. I have a local flying club that I can go do 2 hours flying on a day off from studying/work for example. The great thing about modular training is there is no set way or method for everyone. You can do whatever suits you in terms of how you learn and progress.

By the time I finish the exams, I will probably need to go to somewhere like Spain for 2 weeks to do 50-60 hours flying to get my hours up to requirements to start the ME/IR/CPL training straight away. this is the hour building stage you hear people talking about but like I say, there is nothing to stop you doing it before your exams are complete if you have the licence to do so.

mrcsn

4th Mar 2018, 19:43

I was enrolled into the CTC Wings program back in 2012 but had to leave as the reality of paying back the hefty loan was just not going to work with the climate at the time. I was very anxious about this, couldn’t focus and landed up failing most of my first batch of ATPLs. I never stayed for the second batch (obviously).

I subsequently landed up in a decent-paying job (thanks to my degree) and have stayed with the business ever since, climbing the ranks and have now been thinking about re-exploring my flying career.

Knowing what I went through with the financial anxiety, I have been thinking and researching about the possibility of going Modular and paying-as-I go (per licence stage). Like this, I would hopefully end the training and be both debt-free and still in employment (even if it lands up being slightly longer to get the fATPL).

I will be 34 this year, currently considering a short-haul career (hopefully A319/20/21).

So my questions are (and please answer any that you can, needn’t be all):

Do bigger European airlines still consider pilots who went the modular route?
Will airlines still consider me, even if I did 'fail' half of my ATPLs at first attempt all those years ago?
Are the theoretical elements possible through distance learning (e.g. ground school)?
Is modular the way to go in my situation? Any other route that can be done ‘part-time'?
What schools are recommended within easy reach of London (especially for the PPL)? I’m willing to travel up to 2 hours by train - no problem - so long as the school is reputable and my qualifications respected as I continue doing the licences/courses.
Any other input is much appreciated :)

Thanks a lot guys

GAPilot261087

5th Mar 2018, 14:52

1. Yes. FR for example will consider just about anyone for a license and don't really bother with how you got it. They focus more on the sim assessment I'm told. You will no doubt have to pay for the type rating which is around 30k on top of training but you get jet time, a job and a good salary of about 50k after a few years on the line which is good. EZY sometimes take people on from modular or integrated atpl backgrounds but they have the MPL cadet programme so they are an unlikely bet unless you train with a school such as FTE,OAA or CTC who can recommend you and get you on to a midway programme for an MPL license.

2.Depends. You will never know if you don't try. I would actually recommend emailing an aviation HR rep if you can find someone online and ask the question. There is a business called airline prep which actually run programmes tailored for airline assessments where usually a rep of the airline you are interviewing for will do a mock interview with you. You can always contact them and see if someone will speak to you from an airline you maybe wish to apply for and give you a realistic answer. As I say though, Some airlines don't bother about where you trained and grades etc. Overall, If you have the licence then you can fly and reality is airlines need pilots or they don't make money... and there is a shortage! Once you have the flying time you can apply for wherever you want.. BA, Are Lingus, easy etc

3. Yes. I do modular learning with CAPT Ground school who I would recommend.The notes they provide are very good and the author and head of training is highly recommended and experienced. I also have the Bristol Ground School material and know them to be similar to CAPT in terms of experience they have in terms of teachers and quality of material. BGS may be easier for you in terms of travel for the refresher weeks depending on your location. I stay in Scotland where CAPT run revision weeks and I have a CAA exam centre 5 mins from my house so thats a good portion of the reason why I choose my ground school provider. Any approved modular ground school will provide you with all the material and you learn at home. The courses are set in modules and you will receive refresher weeks before the exam weeks. It is without doubt achievable if you are willing to work hard at it.

4. If you wish to work then yes. You will know yourself from experience the burden of being faced with 80k upwards in debt with no job guarantee when people paying half of that can be just as qualified and have as good a chance of a job whilst being financially stable if they pay as they fly. Modular is financially easier if you can work and fly at the same time. Only thing is you would be wise to ensure your training timeline doesn't have huge gaps between licences and learning because you may find you loose knowledge which can show in assessments.

5. Lots of schools in England. Bournemouth, FTA Global are reputable, Stapleford, Aeros, Airways flight training or Oxford and CTC if you are completley sold on the whole propaganda they throw at aspiring pilots louring them into ridiculously over priced training ... Plenty in reasonably close proximity to London. FTA in particular operate DA40 aircraft with modern glass cockpits so I'd check them out, I wish I could have done my PPL on something like that!

6. For me, my biggest fear is to be stuck doing something that I maybe reasonably like but know that there is something else I really wish I could be doing instead. I am 21 with a PPL but I work for an airline and see the people who I aspire to be like coming in for their flights and wish I could just be doing their job already. It's inspiring though and keeps me going towards my career ambition.

Hope it works out for you!

Jaair

5th Mar 2018, 16:29

1. Do bigger European airlines still consider pilots who went the modular route?
Definitely. Ryanair, Jet2 and Flybe to name a few.

2. Will airlines still consider me, even if I did 'fail' half of my ATPLs at first attempt all those years ago?
Good question, but I thought ATPL results 'expire' after a few years if you haven't finished the course? But to answer the question, it depends on the airline as some may be picky. I believe Ryanair allow 2 fails, but I am basing that on something I heard a few months ago. Note that ATPL fails are merely a form of reducing the CV pile size. A bad set of ATPL results does not mean that the candidate is a bad pilot as I've heard there's a lot of crap needed to be learnt as well as ambiguous exam questions.

I would never let that be a deciding factor as to whether or not to start training. If you are determined and have the passion then worry not, you will eventually be flying for a living. It may not be within a week, month or year after graduating but if you stay within aviation and don't give up then you will eventually find yourself in the RHS.

3. Are the theoretical elements possible through distance learning (e.g. ground school)?
Yes, e.g. BGS. Search around PPRune to find lots of people having done their ATPL while married with kids and working a full time job. A lot of them are also now flying.

4. Is modular the way to go in my situation? Any other route that can be done ‘part-time'?
Pretty sure most integrated schools are full time. So if you want to do it all part-time then modular would definitely be the way. With the current pilot forecast for the next 2 decades it seems like pilots will be in much greater demand. Some people have mentioned that there has been a decrease in demand over the past 12 months but it could be explained by the sudden supply of pilots from Monarch/Air Berlin.

5. What schools are recommended within easy reach of London (especially for the PPL)? I’m willing to travel up to 2 hours by train - no problem - so long as the school is reputable and my qualifications respected as I continue doing the licences/courses.

6. Any other input is much appreciated :)
I got my PPL a few years ago and starting my ATPL in summer after graduating from University. Would be happy to keep in touch with you or anyone else who reads this so feel free to shoot me a PM. We all have the same goal here. :)

BirdmanBerry

5th Mar 2018, 18:07

I've done very limited PPL training but my research told me this:

1, Flybe replied to an email from me when I asked if my age was a barrier to employment with them. They replied that they take pilots from all different backgrounds and that modular shouldn't be an issue and nor should my age (38).

2, Can't answer that.

3, Check out Bristol Ground School.

4, Check out Aeros's Fast Track scheme. This is run in conjunction with BGS and has placed pilots with airlines. You can do this as quick or slow as you wish.

5, I would go with Aeros if I had the funds as the Fast Track scheme is PAYG and Gloucester is 5 minutes from my house! BGS also offer a similar scheme. Links below:

Aeros Fastrack - Aeros Flight Training (http://www.aeros.co.uk/training-overview/aeros-fastrack-2/)
https://www.wingsalliance.eu/

Jaair

5th Mar 2018, 18:18

Noticed WA was just mentioned, https://www.wingsalliance.eu/training/modular-training-explained/ is definitely a good read.

mrcsn

5th Mar 2018, 21:52

Thank you @Jaair @GAPilot261087 @Council_Van and @BirdmanBerry - I must say, I feel really optimistic after reading all your replies. :)

Scouseflier85

22nd Mar 2018, 00:35

Just a quick one guys and girls i am currently 32 and my dilemma is to go integrated or modular, I know of integrated cadets in there mid 30s who have gained employment at EZY. My preference would be modular as it’s the cheaper of the two, but begs the question how many mid 30 cadets the like RYR take when competition is so fierce from young guys Queuing up for a type rating, the gamble to me seems pretty straight forward 50-60k for modular with frozen atpl with maybe little hope of employment or 100k+ gamble whitetail at a big provider eg L3 Fte cae etc just looking foy any help guidance anyone been in my position gained employment mid 30s after traing thanks in advance.

Krautwald

22nd Mar 2018, 18:35

Tough call, ultimately. For me, going modular was a matter of keeping my backup career active and doing it for less $$$.

I would only spend the big bucks on a set cadet scheme - not for an integrated course with no airlines affiliated. My general impression is that at our age, operators will understand why you don´t just cop out and do nothing but flight training. We do have obligations.

My personal conclusion was: the difference in cost is not translating into a proportionate difference in opportunities.

TN12

26th Mar 2018, 08:25

Hello everyone,

I need your opinion about my modular training plans. A brief information about myself, i'm working full time in Istanbul as an aeronautical engineer, therefore money and time are kind of limited for me. Last year i've took the PPL(A) from an EASA member state with distance learning. Here is my future plans, i will be appreciated if you share your opinion about applicability/cost/etc.. with me;

- First step, I am planning to start ATPL Theories with Cats Av. distance learning and take the exams in UK Authority,
- Second step, fly to US Florida for hour building and complete 100 hours PIC in 1 month. (By the end of theories i'll quit my job)
- Then come back and complete CPL/ME/IR in a different EASA member state from I took my PPL(A).

How feasible is that plan?

Thanks in advance.

rudestuff

26th Mar 2018, 13:10

Quite feasible.

jackrabbitslim7

23rd Apr 2018, 19:10

Hello everyone,

I have started my PPL in France at a local club (only 6 hours in) and wondering what would be best :
- Continue my modular in France, and if all goes well, finishing in 2 to 4 years, so I would be 32 - 33 when applying for a job (not necessarily Arline pilot but any pilot job would satisfy me) so maybe a bit old.
- Do a 0-fATPL program (I'm thinking Bartolini or other school in Europe) hopefully finishing sooner and being able to apply sooner for jobs. Also, I know Bartolini is teamed with Wing Alliance so they have some connections with companies.

The modular in France would allow me to keep my job for some time but probably add some time to my qualifications, Bartolini or another full time training would allow me to apply way sooner for jobs.

I also wonder if a recruiter would prefer someone who traveled (and so, have been forced to use English only for his whole training) or wouldn't care about a applicant having done all his training close to home.
I ask because I intend after being qualified to apply to any company, at least in Euroope, maybe in the world (but then there is the problem with converting licenses to FAA or any other authority).

Also, in Europe aside from airline pilot and flight instructor, what jobs can you do as a pilot (while being paid at least the minimum), I wonder if GA is developed like I think it is in USA, seems to me that in Europe you have either big companies or nothing. Could be wrong tho.

Thanks in advance for your insights.
jr

jamesgrainge

24th Apr 2018, 06:50

32-33 a bit old? Does that mean I can start drawing my pension?

jackrabbitslim7

24th Apr 2018, 09:43

32-33 a bit old? Does that mean I can start drawing my pension?

Haha, nah but I mean in reality I will probably be a newbie at 30-33 while others applicants without experience as pilots would probably be younger, 20-25yo.

flyingkeyboard

25th Apr 2018, 20:08

Haha, nah but I mean in reality I will probably be a newbie at 30-33 while others applicants without experience as pilots would probably be younger, 20-25yo.

I know somebody in their mid 40s - currently on an integrated course and confident of gaining airline employment once complete.

jackrabbitslim7

25th Apr 2018, 21:14

emilio123

26th Apr 2018, 11:50

Does anyone know of residential, integrated ATPL theory programs except Oxford?

jamesgrainge

27th Apr 2018, 10:24

Thanks for you replies.
I'm trying to sort my ideas.
I'm actually in the process of selling a house, allowing me to do a 0-fATPL program once sold (but the process of selling the house could take some time). What do you think is best, waiting to sell the house, and then going in one big step from zero to commercial pilot, or going for a PPL this summer (in Hungary there is an offer for a 3 to 5 week PPL program) then do time building in France and once I have enough hours, apply for a CPL program ?

Do you think the ATPL theory can be done while keeping a full time job or is it better to quit work and go full time doing time building and ATPL alongside in order to apply quickly to a CPL program ?

I may get slated for this, however, as a current modular student doing the ATPL theory, if you are happy to spend almost double the amount on an integrated school, and can live for a year whilst studying, I would recommend an integrated course. The ATPL is very difficult in terms of motivation and volume on a modular basis, unless of course you would be studying full time anyway, I suspect the integrated ground school would be of much help. And it would be the quickest route to completion generally.

jackrabbitslim7

27th Apr 2018, 18:24

jamesgrainge

27th Apr 2018, 18:46

Ok thanks.
Is it possible to do only the ATPL theory in a ground school (so full time with class lessons) and do the rest modular ?

When I saw the proposition from Bartolini, the ATPL theory was ventilated as follow : 80H class, 650 e-learning (they are using Bristol GS ATPL) it seems they were confident you could complete the program in 9 month. So if possible my plan (other than a 0-fATPL program) was to finish my PPL this summer, then take ATPL theory and start hour building. If ATPL is too heavy whilst working full time, I would quit my job and concentrate for some months on ATPL and hour building, then hopefully passing the CPL and required exams, then looking for a job, then maybe type rating if job hunting fail.

Is it a good idea to do IR rating just after the PPL (with night rating) to be able to train to any type of flying during hour building phase before CPL IR ME ?

I believe there are ground schools for theory, but I haven't looked into it. So I could be wrong.

If you study full time, 8h per day every day, there's no reason why it couldn't be done in 9 months. They are significant and hard work though. Under estimate their difficulty at your peril.

As for the IR that depends how you intend on doing your flying. Most schools.offer combined IR,CPL and ME courses. In order to satisfy the required hours for each area. That's a personal choice. There are exams for the IR which would need passing before you started the course. If you want the ATPL then personally I would combine it all into one. Again, That's personal choice though.

rudestuff

28th Apr 2018, 18:56

Ok thanks.
Is it possible to do only the ATPL theory in a ground school (so full time with class lessons) and do the rest modular ?

Is it a good idea to do IR rating just after the PPL (with night rating) to be able to train to any type of flying during hour building phase before CPL IR ME ?

Yes. There are many schools which offer 6 month full time ATPL courses.

You can't do the IR immediately after the ppl, you need 50 hours cross country PIC time before you can start. However it is a very good it's to take the IR before the CPL of you want to get everything done in 200 hours.

By far the cheapest (and by cheaper I mean at least £10k cheaper) is to start with an FAA PPL then add an IR and ME rating. You have to hour build anyway, so it's just the instruction you're paying for. Here's the punchline: if you get 50 hours PIC under ifr (free in your hour building) then you can convert to an EASA MEIR with no minimum aircraft hours (normally it's 21 plus 40 SIM)
Then all you need to do is a 15 hour single engine CPL course.

Luke3514

30th Apr 2018, 08:54

Good day all.

I am Looking to Convert my current ICAO CPL to an EASA fATPL.

I currently Hold an ICAO Class1 Medical, ICAO MCC, etc.

Please can someone with regards to this as I am moving to the UK very soon.

I believe that I need to do the EASA Class 1 medical before I start with anything. (this costs aropund 550 pounds)

Would Just like to find out from anyone that can help what would be the best and cheapest ropute for me to go about to finish all the required training and then be able to get a job in the UK.

Please help with:
1) Ground School Stugesstions and costs
2) Flight School Suggestions and costs
3) Who will be able to hire me after finishing the training. (Would love to work for the likes of EasyJet, RyanAir, etc)

I currently have 1500Hrs Total time, 1200Hrs Multicrew (Cessna Grand Caravan - multicrew in RSA ehen more than 9 pax carried), 40Hrs Night

all help would be greatly appriciated

PelicanSquawk

12th May 2018, 16:13

Hi All,

I am just starting my ATPL theory exams, and I have realised that I best get on with booking my CPL MEIR somewhere, as waiting lists seems long... for example Oct 2019 is the earliest for Bartolini Air. I plan on getting through there ATPL's in 10 - 12 months, as well as my hours building.

So these are the schools I am so far considering, and I plan on visiting them.

Diamond Flight academy
Bartolini
BAA Training
Egnatia
STO Flight training Stolkholme

Are there any others I have missed which I should be considering? I am not including Oxford, L3 or FTE Jerez, due to costs.

I know there are several threads on schools, but I guess reputation and opinions are forever changing, I would also like to hear if people think one is worth going for even if it means waiting an additional 6 months for a place, such as Bartolini?

The other thing I am unsure of is this "Wings alliance" they have approved training providers... but I'm not sure how much use they would be, and if its worth sticking to only the schools they endorse... I would appreciate any opinion on them.

One other thing to add is... I don't fancy a "rushed course" as in I am not attracted to a school saying it only takes 8 weeks or whatever, I would rather the take a bit longer is my preference... but I guess the good schools need to get people through quickly.

PelicanSquawk

12th May 2018, 21:43

PelicanSquawk.
You have to consider what your living situation is.
And your every day expenses.
It all comes into play, as to where the best school for you would be.
Every situation is different.
No two people are the same.

I had a part-time high paying evening and week-end job, that allowed me the freedom to train when and where I wanted.
And a place to stay for free.
Without it, things would have been much different.

You are listed as London.
If you are North East London.
You may want to consider Stapleford.
If your South London, then FTA needs to be considered.
West London, then Airways.
You will pay more to do it from home, but may save in the long run.

But if you are a free agent.
Then I’d pack up the car and head for Eastern Europe.
Bartolini and Baltic are very good.
As is Diamond.
I’d stay away from Greece.

Scheduling seems to be the name of the game now.
I was thinking that if you booked up Bartolini for Oct 2019.
Could you go from zero to 175 hours and ATPL written passed in that time frame?
Maybe, maybe not.
Time waits for no man.
And I’m not waiting on any school.
If you already have a PPL and are working on your ATPLs, then Oct 19 isn’t going to work out.
You can over think a situation.
Life doesn’t go according to plan very often.

I’ve been unsure as to what exactly Wings Alliance is too.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I already have my ATPL, so I think the ATPL exams in a year is very doable, so yeah I guess October 2019 is too far away... I'm only getting older. My plan is to stop working entirely before I go do the CPL MEIR, so location isn't an issue, in fact I'm sure to enjoy the experience in another country more than staying in London.

I've emailed all the schools, and I'll see what their responses are. Diamond seems fully booked also... Bartolini did say I could be on a waiting list, but I don't want to end up waiting until Oct 2019.

PelicanSquawk

13th May 2018, 12:14

You can’t always get what you want.
But you’ll find sometimes, you’ll get what you need.

You may find exactly what you want at home.
Sure a road trip would have been fun.
Save it for a A320 type rating.

Don’t e-mail.
Go visit the three local ones, SFC, FTA, Airways.
Also add BCFT to the list, and talk to the chief.
I bet you’ll know exactly where to go having spoken to all four.

Have you done your hour building?
Rudestuff had some spectacularly good advice on how to double and triple dip.
We all know that night should be combined with cross-country.
But I had never considered doing 50 hours under the hood before.

I'm going to be doing my hours building as I study for my ATPLs. I'm hoping to get a school which focuses mainly on getting people through the CPL MEIR, that way being structured with that aim in mind, and training alongside others in the same boat. I get the impression that many of the UK schools tend to do a bit of everything, where as the likes of Diamond and Bartolini seem a bit more focussed... I could be wrong. I'll have to enquire with all of them.

PigeonVoyageur

13th May 2018, 15:34

PelicanSquawk
Put Atlantic Flight Training Academy (AFTA) in Cork on your list. They are very good.

Scouseflier85

25th May 2018, 10:09

Could someone be so kind as to give a ball park price for modular training zero hours I was hoping it could be done for £50k. Any insight would be hugely appreciated many thanks sf85

AspiringPilot28

25th May 2018, 19:45

Wandering Paddy

17th Jun 2018, 11:21

Anyone know any reputable schools in the north of England?

Chani

18th Jun 2018, 14:00

have a look at pptaviation it seem like a good school, myself am planning to enroll on their full time modular course.

Wandering Paddy

18th Jun 2018, 16:39

have a look at pptaviation it seem like a good school, myself am planning to enroll on their full time modular course.

Thank you. I'm also looking at doing it in Sweden (I started a contract here recently). Honestly, I'd prefer not to live in Blighty, however, if I have to move there to train, it'll be nowhere near London.

ab_initio_Richard

19th Jun 2018, 13:24

Hi all....

I am currently looking into begin pilot training next Spring.

I've been looking into various routes (modular vs integrated) and different flight schools. I'm minded to go for theab initio ATPL (not affiliated with any particular airline). I'm leaning towards this as opposed to modular as I'd like to get the training done in one hit. I have a wife and young children to support, so can't be out of work too long, and want to give the training my full attention rather than trying to do it alongside a day job. I can't afford to go on an airline affiliated ab initio ATPL, and from what I've read, you're paying nearly double for not a lot more.

I've found three potential flight schools so far that are around, or close to my limited budget, and I'm wondering if anyone has experience or knowledge of these. In rough order of preference, these are:

1) Aviation Career Centre - Slovenia
2) OneAir - Malaga
3) PTT Aviation

Can anyone recommend any other schools that provide EASA training, and where I could get to a frozen ATPL for approximately £60k? If outside of the UK, then I'll also need to factor in location as the family will hopefully temporarily relocate with me.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

AdamQuinny

19th Jun 2018, 19:46

Hi,
I am new to these forums, but I've been researching for many months now.
I have just finished my GCSEs and I have the entire summer to look deeper into my dream career. At the moment I have firm eyes on short-haul international flights with a selection of British airlines (EasyJet, Thomas Cook, Jet2, TUI and Ryanair). I see the various licence types CPL, ATPL etc and I have looked at various training centres within the UK. Now after speaking to Pilot George, I have learnt that it is best to stick with popular training centres due to their Airline Links. With L3 I think that the training bond solution is good although I suspect only BA and EasyJet are actually committed to paying the bond back to me once employed. I also choose L3 over CAE due to the financing, L3 goes through Optimum Finance and CAE goes through Pegasus. Borrowing £96,800 and £90,000 respectively from either finance partner shows that L3 is considerably more affordable. Paying £96,800 over 25 years at 4.9% works out at £560 per month in comparison to £90,000 over 10 years (maximum duration) at 7.9%, ending up with £1,087.20 per month, almost double the amount per month. So let's say I go with L3, I have a variety of courses to choose from, personally, I would go for an integrated APTL due to the range of airline employers rather than limiting myself to a set career with BA or EasyJet. So paying £560 per month seems affordable, would it be worthwhile saving £15,000 prior to starting the course to cover the loan repayments when I'm training and the first 6-9 months after leaving training (the period of time to find my first airline job)? Once I have landed my first job then I can cover the repayments for certain, I will also have to think about transportation once I land my first job (I am planning on saving money by not getting a car whilst I am training).
So thank you for reading, I just have a few questions in mind -

Am I eligible for student finance?
Are my repayment forecasts correct?
How can I prepare over the next two years for my training?

I have various spreadsheets and documents where I have accumulated a wealth of information for various courses, jobs and opportunities. I believe that I am extremely passionate about my future in the aviation industry, this is pushing me forward along with my academic ability whilst money is pulling me back.
Thank you very much for your attention

HowardJR

20th Jun 2018, 07:17

I'm training in Aviation Career Center for the past year now... came here with 1/2 PPL already done, finished the PPL, started ATPL & HB and now I'm on IR. I wasn't familiar with them but the price was very reasonable for me so I took my chance and I don't regret it. Guys are very flexible and helpful, training is progressing quickly (one student was in hurry and just finished IR in one month), airport is very nice - international but no traffic :ok:, a lot of attention is given on student's independence (especially on HB)... except the Slovenian CAA is a bit slow and you have to push them a bit :p

Basil Fawlty1

20th Jun 2018, 09:40

Hi all....

I am currently looking into begin pilot training next Spring.
.

Hi Richard - why not make a start on your PPL now whilst you’re still working ? You should comfortably have it out of the way by next spring if you start it this summer.

As well as telling you if flying really is for you, doing it this way will also mean you’ll need less time off work when you start training full time.

Wandering Paddy

20th Jun 2018, 09:52

have a look at pptaviation it seem like a good school, myself am planning to enroll on their full time modular course.

I called PPT and they are charging 10k for a PPL. Surely there are more competitive options in the North of Engerland? I was recently told you'd get one for 8k

emilio123

20th Jun 2018, 20:54

I called PPT and they are charging 10k for a PPL. Surely there are more competitive options in the North of Engerland? I was recently told you'd get one for 8k

Lol where I live it's 14-16K Euro's MINIMUM hours including class 1 initial, LPE, RT, exam fees and license fees.

Maverick97

20th Jun 2018, 21:07

Hi Adam,
It's nice to see how passionate you are.
First things first get you class 1 medical. It should be the very first thing you consider, because without it a commercial flying career is a non starter!
I've just turned 21 and I've been researching flight training since the age of 18 once I finished my A-Levels. Within that time I've changed my mind between modular and integrated training dozens of times. I sat an assessment for CAE Oxford. I was quite optimistic that I would stroll out of training into the right hand seat of an A320 and if I'm perfectly honest I probably could have. Easyjet was hiring waves upon waves of fresh cadets from CTC, CAE and FTE. I looked at my finances exactly the same way you are right now. 'If I cut this cost I can save this, If I don't do this I can afford this.' It turned out that parents were willing to help me fund my training. They relied on my proposal to them about the way the market was. It would of been very very tight but it was doable. I made a mature decision to not go ahead with that route. I don't think I would of been able to handle my training knowing that once I walk out the doors the crippling debt will swallow myself and my family home if I didn't secure that job fairly quickly. I started working on the ground for Jet2 the same year and got speaking to a pilot apprentice that was about to start his type rating on the 737NG. He'd paid 40,000 for his training. Don't be too quick to turn your nose up at the modular route. If money is an issue you will get the exact same piece of paper as an integrated student would. Airlines now do not care what your training background is aslong as you have a strong record with good results and first time passes. I mean look at Easyjet, the one airline who notoriously only recruit intergrated cadets opened up places for cadets from any training back ground and look at Ryanair who have just reduced their type rating bond!

I'm mid PPL now, flying 4 times per week all paid for by working, looking at moving straight onto the ATPLs after, with some hours building done in the north of England. A kind FO at Jet2 has a share in a Cessna he's looking to sell. Looking to have my full training done in the next 2 years!
Honestly Adam, you're only 15 mate so research every possible thing you can, build a network do some PPL flying and you'll thank yourself later!!

Maverick97

21st Jun 2018, 06:43

I called PPT and they are charging 10k for a PPL. Surely there are more competitive options in the North of Engerland? I was recently told you'd get one for 8k

Hi mate,

its quite expensive at Newcastle,
£25 per landing too.

Try Teeside, PTT have a base there but so does Eden flight training. They operate warriors and tomahawks.
You could probably do the PPL for around 7k in the tomahawk. Hourly rates including landing and touch and go fees and are by far the cheapest in the region, I know a guy that’s doing his LAPL at Eshott with the intention to convert it to a PPL, don’t know much about that but there’s another option too?

Wandering Paddy

21st Jun 2018, 09:18

Hi mate,

its quite expensive at Newcastle,
£25 per landing too.

Try Teeside, PTT have a base there but so does Eden flight training. They operate warriors and tomahawks.
You could probably do the PPL for around 7k in the tomahawk. Hourly rates including landing and touch and go fees and are by far the cheapest in the region, I know a guy that’s doing his LAPL at Eshott with the intention to convert it to a PPL, don’t know much about that but there’s another option too?

Cheers. I was hoping to get a school around Liverpool, Leeds, Manchester area. That way I can work, and train on my off days. Teeside may be a bit far.

ab_initio_Richard

21st Jun 2018, 17:13

Hi Richard - why not make a start on your PPL now whilst you’re still working ? You should comfortably have it out of the way by next spring if you start it this summer.

As well as telling you if flying really is for you, doing it this way will also mean you’ll need less time off work when you start training full time.

Hi Basil. May well do. There is a flight school ten minutes down the road. If it goes smoothly I can do a PPL for about £8k. I'm off there on Saturday for a taster session, so hopefully all goes well.

Could then do the remaining licences in Slovenia, learning to fly between the Alps and the Adriatic sounds very appealing!

Any thoughts on whether Brexit will create an issue with EASA licences, and will they need converting to UK CAA equivalent? If so, would this likely just be a paperwork exercise?

Maverick97

22nd Jun 2018, 09:18

Cheers. I was hoping to get a school around Liverpool, Leeds, Manchester area. That way I can work, and train on my off days. Teeside may be a bit far.

Apologies, my stubborn northern mind set only assuming north means anything above Yorkshire... :}

rudestuff

22nd Jun 2018, 11:57

Actually 'the north' is anything above Bristol...

AdamQuinny

23rd Jun 2018, 15:03

Hi J,
Thanks a lot for taking the time to help me out it is greatly appreciated. Like you I did turn down the modular option before but I still think that it wouldn't be as smooth as the integrated routes. Today my girlfriend was flying to Italy and she sent me a video of her walking across the tarmac to the plane and within me, I just felt a rush of excitement and I would love to wake up and experience that feeling every single day.

I've seen this Jet2 apprenticeship scheme before, I don't fully understand it, it talks about learning all about Jet2 but then it's called 'pilot apprenticeship' so do you end up with an MPL? CPL? ATPL? How much would an introductory lesson be? I've learnt that a PPL is a good kickstarter so would this be a good idea - Finish A-Levels --> PPL --> Get a job --> keep applying for modular and integrated courses whilst still working --> pause/stop work if accepted to a course ?
Thanks.

button push ignored

23rd Jun 2018, 20:21

The important word here is SCHEME, and most airlines have them.
I wouldn’t waste my time with any of them.
And time is your most valuable asset.

Pilots fly their aircraft.
They are not there to learn every facet of the company.
I don’t want to live, breath and sleep the brand.
Just earn a decent living doing it.

If you want to fly.
Then just go on a do it.
Forget all this marketing hype.
Just resolve yourself to fly or learn more about flying everyday.
And in good time you will become a pilot.

Somebody with a PPL is a pilot.
An assistant flight instructor is a professional pilot.
All have my respect.
Somebody who just fills out applications and attends interviews and selection processs.
Well, they are just kind of missing the whole point.
Pilots fly planes.

Start with a PPL.
And stop worrying about all those SCHEMES.

You use use the term ‘applying’ for modular and intergrated courses.
Adam.
They are running a business, not a charity.
You are paying with your family’s money.
You are the boss.
Get in the drivers seat and take control of your destiny.

I’m thrilled that you are 15 and want to do this.
Well done, that’s half the battle of life won.

AdamQuinny

23rd Jun 2018, 20:36

Right I see. So given that it is a complete waste of time this scheme, it’s advised to stick with modular or integrated and approach airlines on completion, Jet2 is my favourite airline, it would be a completed dream to fly for them you may disagree but I have my reasons, there is an event with various seminars at Manchester airport in a few weeks I want to go to it just for extra first hand advice but is it worth it? It would be about £15 for the day but there’s a seminar on integrated vs modular which is a clear decision I’ll have to make, there’s also a Jet2 seminar so I’d be delighted to go to that and I’m sure there’s something else I was looking forward to seeing too.

button push ignored

24th Jun 2018, 11:46

[QUOTE=AdamQuinny;1018025

In the 1980s and 1990s, Jet2 was known as Channel Express.
I used to jumpseat on their Herald’s, Electra’s and A300s to work.
Fine people.
I completely understand you wanting to work there.
But that’s not the issue.
The issue is ‘time’.

Now your only 15, and time is on your side.
I started as a British Airways engineering apprentice at age 16.
I didn’t commit to being a pilot until I was 18.
So this may not be relivant in your case.
But you always have to consider the negative consequences.
Something they never tell you in their marketing.
I completed a four year apprentiship in the early 1980s.
During a very nasty time in the U.K.
Last in - First out.
I was laid off along with three million others.

Now if you were to commit to Jet2 apprentice pilot program.
And the economy took a nose dive.
As it often does every twelve or so years.
(Last downturn 2009.)
What do you think would happen?
The same thing that happened to me.
Out on your ear.

It wasn’t a problem because I had a PPL/IMC, money and a plan.
For I didn’t want to do that mechanic job for the rest of my life.
But it sure was a wake up call to the ways of the world.

Now if you had spent your time flying instead of working Jet2 customer service assignments.
When the next recession hits, at least you’ll have your licenses and some experience to fall back on.

Networking is very important in any industry.
Get to know the airline and it’s people.
Keep track of names and faces.
Go to all seminars and family days and tours.
Meet as many people as you can.
It’s good practice on giving the right impression.

As for Intergrated Vs Modular.
I like cheap as possible, quick as possible and save your money for a quality MCC and a B737 type rating.
With this and some experience in a starter job and some internal recommendations.
I think you’ll be in far better standing with them.

Having an airline monitor your progress through flight training is also a huge burden I wouldn’t want.
It’s a hard enough career taking two check rides a year.

AdamQuinny

24th Jun 2018, 14:08

That helps so much, so it’s pretty much clear to stay away from scheme and airline mentored integrated routes. Given that Brexit isnt going very well I guess the aviation industry will be effected heavily. Ultimately I want to be flying to Italy, Spain etc carrying excited kids on their first holidays, maybe inspiring some kids to grow up and become pilots perhaps how one pilot did to me. Once I’ve got everything for an fATPL I need to think about type ratings although the A320 is more futuristic I think that the 737 is more of a pilots plane, I don’t want to say down letting a computing fly the plane I want to be doing the flying, has anyone got a comparison or something to aid me with this? At the careers fair I’ll go to as many stalls as possible whilst going to as many seminars as possible. Do the fairs have the same airlines at each fair or is it different for each venue?

Cpd87

25th Jun 2018, 19:00

Hi guys, hope everyone is well?

Im new to this forum and have been looking through this thread for a little while now, but I have a slightly different view about the Jet2 ‘Pilot Apprentice’ program, and I just felt like I should share it.

As I read it, it isn’t the kind of thing you sign up for for three years and end up with an ATPL at the end of it. I believe the requirements state that you need your fATPL already in order to apply. You then work your way round the various departments within the company (cabin crew, ground ops etc etc), presumably to show your commitment to Jet2 and pasion for eventually becoming a pilot, and in return they bond you the money for the type rating to ultimately get you in the right hand seat.

Although working your way around the company doing every job other than flying for a while doesn’t sound ideal, especially when you have your fATPL in your hand, but trying to find an aditional £30k for a type rating after leaving flight school is probably quite tricky for a lot of people too. You have to pay Jet2 the money back of course, but surely it’s better than going to a bank, with your hat in your hand asking for a(nother) loan?

This is just the way I have read it, and I haven’t gone over it with a fine-toothed comb, so I am open to correction.

AdamQuinny

2nd Jul 2018, 08:08

From a lot of researching I have come up with more questions,

If you do a ME CPL do you need to get a MEP Rating at all?
Is it possible to do a SE CPL then a MEP Rating?
What the best sequence to do the CPL, MEP and ME/IR in?

rudestuff

2nd Jul 2018, 13:04

The cheapest way is to do a SE CPL and don’t bother getting the MEP at all. Airlines rarely use piston engines.

AdamQuinny

2nd Jul 2018, 13:35

So I don’t need a MEP to do a ME/IR

rudestuff

2nd Jul 2018, 14:44

Correct. You need to do the course (6 hours) but you don't need to take the test or get the rating, saving at least £1000.

If you're converting from an FAA IR via the 50 hour pic route, i think you'd be exempt the mep course if your FAA IR already had multi privileges (I'll need to read up on that)

ThomasBowdler

5th Jul 2018, 12:36

Before I begin, I'd like to say that I have looked on previous threads about the subject, however most are outdated on the subject. I've searched through pages of Google and only come across forums, with too, outdated answers. After weighing up the risks and rewards over the past 6 months my parents have agreed to use their house as security if they can get the type of loan I will go on to ask about below. I thought I would add this as a common theme within the threads I have read have been, 'are you sure' on using a property as security and after carefully considering and agreeing with alot of the risks, but also the rewards, they have agreed to do so. Also a bit of background. The course I have looked into visited is the "Aeros Fastrack" course with Aeros in the UK. Its a modular course,but depending on how available you are, you can work through it like an integrated course, but primarily it is an modular course. I just wanted to clear all that up :).

Is anybody aware of a company or bank that will offer loans over 10 years, for pilots or just in general, of £55,000, secured with a property obviously (of which is worth £135,000), and that comes with holiday period of 18 months or upward. I'm aware these a very niche and rare. BBVA used to provide this service, targeted at future pilots, but it was withdrawn last year.
Our aim is to take out a secured loan over 10 years, against the property, of £55,000,and have the holiday period so that upon completion of the training, you can pay back, at an increased rate because of the holiday, a set amount each month. Alternatively, are there any companies or banks that will allow you to pay reduced amounts back in the 18 months and then upon completion of training increase your payments. And finally, does anybody know of any companies or banks that offer loans and schemes targeted directly at pilots or pilot training. If not, are there any other way of funding these modular courses?
Thank alot,

rudestuff

5th Jul 2018, 16:27

Ever heard of a 0% credit card?

ThomasBowdler

5th Jul 2018, 18:26

Hi, thanks for the response.
Isn't there a maximum amount that you can borrow over a limited time using a 0% credit card?
Thanks alot,

rudestuff

6th Jul 2018, 15:11

It was a bit tongue in check, although there's no limit on how many credit card you can have. Why do you want £55,000 in particular?

Nurse2Pilot

6th Jul 2018, 16:25

I'm guessing it's via the Wings Alliance white tail programme. Council Van, where does one look for such insurance policies?

Silverds88

16th Jul 2018, 12:01

Hello my friends.After hard working for several years, i am about to join a flight academy in Europe in order to have my ATPL studies.As soon as i am looking for the best school which suits me best i have a decent concern and need your help.
I ve read that after finish school you just have 250h of flying. Airlines require 1500h in order to have an interview. Several schools advertise that their students can find a job directly after their atpl program is over and also have posts with their students get hired from airlines like ryanair etc.
So can you please help me what should i do ?Ithink that in order to reach 1500hours after school cost THOUSANDS of money that cant afford extra. Which academy do you recommend and moreover what is the chances to get a job.
Thank you!

Nurse2Pilot

16th Jul 2018, 17:11

I would think the 1500hrs flight time requirement only applies to the USA, not EASA or EU pilots. Someone correct me if I'm wrong there but that's what I'm aware of.

cavok_flyer

17th Jul 2018, 08:35

You can always get an interview; 1500h is the amount of hours in the EU to get your "frozen" ATPL "unfrozen".

Nurse2Pilot

17th Jul 2018, 18:58

So he doesn't have to pay for those 1500hrs (or 1250hrs) but rather get paid as he works from 250hrs to 1500hrs, right?

31Pilot

17th Jul 2018, 19:26

There’s generally two types of positions advertised. The first is what most will look for, they’re low hour cadet positions like Ryanair.

The other, for example, is like BA who require a certain number of hours (1000hrs as an example) and often on aircraft over a certain weight. BA have their own cadet programme so they would rather take new pilots from there or hire more experienced pilots from other airlines etc.

You should search for low hour pilot jobs and see what they require, then compare that to what your training gets you. Being realistic, nobody is going to finish their training and walk into their local flag carrier unless they’re on a tagged scheme.

Nurse2Pilot

17th Jul 2018, 19:41

I was just asking/clarifying in reference to the original concerns by Silverds88 above where he thinks he needs to have 1500hrs before an airline interview which I believe is a US requirement but not here in EASA/EU.

1500hrs and an unfrozen ATPL opens a lot of doors if I'm reading stories correctly but that still doesn't mean a low-hour (250hrs) pilot is out of luck, right?

rudestuff

17th Jul 2018, 19:42

Be careful of the differences between FAA and EASA.

For EASA multi crew aircraft, you only need a CPL and IR to be a first officer, which you can get with 200 hours (or less if you go integrated).

An ATPL is only required to be a captain. That's when you need 1500 hours (amongst other things). Most airlines want 3-4,000 hours to get a command anyway, so there's no rush..

Plenty of European airlines are hiring people with 200 hours.

Nurse2Pilot

17th Jul 2018, 20:15

Thanks for that confirmation, rudestuff! So an applicant for FO with 200hrs is a reality; I guess once you're in, that 1500hrs will come with the territory after a few years!

JamboMac

27th Jul 2018, 08:08

Hi all! I am looking at going down the modular route for my fATPL. I plan on doing PPL, hours building, ATPL theory, CPL, MEP CR & MEP-IR. I will then come back to the UK for MCC/JOT.

Does anyone know if going to a non-UK, cheaper school out in Hungary will have a negative effect on prospects once back in the UK? There is a number of schools near Bp that offer these courses and I plan to go and visit, but I won't really be able to find out what reputation these schools have with UK airlines.

PilotYannick

6th Aug 2018, 00:18

Hi everyone

I'm a Belgium senior high school student. I'm obsessed by aviation and I already got my PLL. My dream is to become a commercial pilot. My goal is to get my ATPL as fast as possible but I would also want a (usefull) university degree as a backup. I'm looking for a college which offers aviation related degrees and doesn't stretch my ATPL training to much. There options are very limited in Belgium so I was thinking about the UK or US but I don't know where to start.

Most my grades are around 70%-75%. Costs and fees aren't a reall issue but the cheaper the better as long as the quality stays the same.

Small sidenote: I don't have my ppl yet but I'm done with my training. I'm now waiting for my 17th birthday to do my exam.

flapsupboy

6th Aug 2018, 17:01

Hi there, I am in a similar situation. I started PPL when I was 16.Got my license when I was 17.I too intend to complete a degree. I have looking forward at the degree offered by the Kingston University, UK. Bsc. in Aviation Studies for Commercial Pilot Training(UCAS CODE :H461) About two years back they offered a top up degree where you can skip the first two years and get into third year. The requirements were a PPL and ATPL theory completed. But now you have to have A/Ls or some recognised previous education or a foundation degree with them. That means it takes two years time for me as I will have to do a foundation degree. The fees were around 9000eur per year. Not exactly sure about the fees. Do yourself a quick research and you'll find out. This degree is now not listed in their website but if you email them they'll answer your questions. My plan is to complete ATPL and CPL and apply to an airline. If I am unsuccessful I'll go with the degree and try applying again.
BTW when do you turn 17?

Contact Approach

6th Aug 2018, 19:30

Guys/Gals,

Don't be so stead fast on you pursuit to the RHS of a jet. Use your youth to party, travel, mess up and plainly enjoy yourself... trust me the seat isn't as comfortable after a few years anyways.

flapsupboy

6th Aug 2018, 20:58

:rolleyes:

AngelsTen

7th Aug 2018, 11:06

Afternoon all,

After some research I think I’ve nailed down my choice of modular flying school, my decision will be definite after a visit sometime this week.

The school offers a fast track course from zero to frozen hero.

I’ve heard that modular won’t always have the connections to airline HR like an integrated school would. My question is what courses could be obtained down the line to improve employability.

Hope that makes sense

Look forward to future responses

PilotYannick

8th Aug 2018, 04:26

Thanks your post it helped a lot. What specific degree is this? I'm 16 now my birthday is the 22th of October. I really hope that the weather will be good enough to fly.

PelicanSquawk

8th Aug 2018, 13:51

AngelsTen

Just out of interest which school did you choose? And have you done your ATPL theory yet?

AngelsTen

9th Aug 2018, 05:23

Potentationally Aeros In Coventry, no not done the ATPL theory yet.

flapsupboy

9th Aug 2018, 05:47

Thanks your post it helped a lot. What specific degree is this? I'm 16 now my birthday is the 22th of October. I really hope that the weather will be good enough to fly.

This is a Bachelors degree :
https://www.kingston.ac.uk/undergraduate-course/aviation-operations-with-commercial-pilot-training/
Wish you best of luck with the flight test.

nelson_v

15th Aug 2018, 17:50

Hello guys,

This is Nelson, from Macau (Located near H.K.). Portuguese passport holder (EU citizen).

I am looking for a flight school in U.K. (Because studying in U.K. the dream of my lifetime :) ) with a good reputation, and suitable for a self-fund student (From 0 to ATPL) to apply an integrated ATPL.

The following flight school always appear on aviation forums, what do you think about them? Any good suggestions for flight school other than them?

CAE Oxford
L3
Airways Aviation
Aeros Flight Training
CATS Aviation Training
Skies aviation academy
Airways aviation
Craven College

Please share your experience/ rumours about the flight school on above/ the school you're recommended, your feedback will be absolutely valuable to my future pathway on aviation.

Thank you soooo much guys!

reiting

22nd Aug 2018, 11:32

Hello

Im about to finish my hour building stage and be ready for a CPL/MEP/IR. Im wondering how much the price of the courses will actually be compared to the advertised ones ? Like any good rule of thumb for example +10-20% of the advertised one ? Im pretty sure that the actual prices will be more just like with PPL where the price advertised is just for the minimum requirements but barely anyone makes it with the minimum. And also does anyone know any good CPL/MEP/IR offers out there in europe at the moment ?

flapsupboy

22nd Aug 2018, 14:10

Bartolini Air in Poland
Diamond Flight Academy in Sweden

Nurse2Pilot

28th Aug 2018, 19:51

There's a new thread about cadet programs and I am just wondering even if they were open, why would someone spend £120K on an integrated programme when you can spend half that on a modular course? Even if the airline underwrites your loan, why take out a £120K loan when you can take out half that amount? The only advantage I can see is if the airline takes on the cost of training and bonds the student afterwards, so the applicant has a job after training. Surely the links that the big 3 have to airlines isn't worth twice the cost of modular training?

Not looking to start a "which is better" argument here, just trying to see what the guys who go for £120K training sees that is worth the investment.

rudestuff

29th Aug 2018, 00:06

I'm pretty sure that the actual prices will be more just like with PPL where the price advertised is just for the minimum requirements but barely anyone makes it with the minimum.

Quite the opposite in my opinion. Barely anyone goes over the minimums.

rudestuff

29th Aug 2018, 00:12

Not looking to start a "which is better" argument here, just trying to see what the guys who go for £120K training sees that is worth the investment.

Why do supermarkets sell the same product at 2 or 3 different prices when they are clearly the same product in different packaging? People are stupid.

Nurse2Pilot

29th Aug 2018, 08:04

For supermarkets, because they will charge what the market will bear, but even here, the price difference is not double. So are you saying people who go to the big 3 are stupid, end of discussion?

rudestuff

29th Aug 2018, 14:14

carlapilot

3rd Sep 2018, 11:55

Hi everyone! I've just finished my PPL and I'm looking for a good ATPL school anywhere in Europe. I want to avoid low quality cheating schools (who just take your money, without proper training). Please give me some suggestions, how to compare the schools! If you have any personal experience, please let know!
Thank you!

Nurse2Pilot

3rd Sep 2018, 14:38

No. There are certain airlines which will only recruit from them (for some reason) - but for someone aiming for Flybe or Ryanair where it certainly doesn't matter at the moment - throwing away an extra £60-80k definitely raises questions.Someone brought this up recently -- hour-building. He said that the chaps he knew (UK or at least EU) needed at least 1,000hrs before flying for airlines and I said unless I'm very, very wrong in my understanding, I believe airlines now hire just after flight school or modular training so 200-250 or 300hrs and you can get a job at Flybe or Ryanair or any other airline, right?

rudestuff

4th Sep 2018, 15:13

Someone brought this up recently -- hour-building. He said that the chaps he knew (UK or at least EU) needed at least 1,000hrs before flying for airlines and I said unless I'm very, very wrong in my understanding, I believe airlines now hire just after flight school or modular training so 200-250 or 300hrs and you can get a job at Flybe or Ryanair or any other airline, right?

Correct. Loads of guys are getting airline jobs nowadays with 200 hours.

Nurse2Pilot

4th Sep 2018, 20:22

Correct. Loads of guys are getting airline jobs nowadays with 200 hours.
Cheers for that!

Potential_Pilot

9th Sep 2018, 12:41

All,

I am in my early thirties, in full time employment but looking for a career change. I am based in the UK. I have spent a bit of time interpreting and understanding the costs for my own benefit and thought I’d share my work. In the PDF attachement below is a summary document that details the different training routes and associated costs.

These costings and comparisons are my judgement only and should not be used to actually inform any decisions! Go and talk to a financial adviser!

My costings are specific to my situation and particularly note that:

· I have a mortgage therefore any accommodation costs will be in addition to this.

· My job currently pays ~£45,000pa. Doing a full time training course would obviously stop me earning.

There are three flavours of training that I have considered:

Integrated ATPL that is not part of a cadet programme
Integrated MPL as part of generation easyJet cadet programme
Modular ATPL

The integrated ATPL is the course at Oxford. The Integrated MPL with generation easyJet cadet programme is the L3 course. I have based the modular costs on various posted costings and Flying Time Aviation.

On the easyJet MPL course there is a training bond of £69,000 that MAY get paid back to you over the course of 7 to 9 years (if you are based in the UK). I have very little further information on this but I have included as a consideration at face value.

It’s worth noting as well that I think in a lot of the proposed costings put forward on this thread for a modular ATPL they omit the cost of MCC and type rating, although many allude to the fact they have a lot of money left over (compared to an integrated course) to complete it.

For both the integrated routes without cadet programme and the modular ATPL a lot of the posts seem to forget to consider the “down” time between finishing the training and getting a pilot job. This is obviously mitigated somewhat if you stay in current employment while training (on a modular course) as you aren’t necessarily “losing” anything (still getting paid £45,000pa) but if you enter in to training without a job you have the uncertainty at the end of training and potentially a significant period where you aren’t earning. A year out of employment would quickly make the costs significantly higher when looked at as a whole.

The big thing that I haven’t accounted for is loan repayment costs, particularly interest. This is obviously a major flaw in the “total cost” value. I have assumed that the costs are based on self funding up front. Again, talk to a financial adviser.

In summary:

Actually comparing the costs in my calculations you can see that for me the modular route is much cheaper (£84,000 compared to £180,000+). However, this assumes that I can complete the modular course all while working full time. I think it’s doable but would be challenging! I think for anyone already in employment, particularly with a significant salary, it doesn’t make any sense to go down the integrated route. Instead if you keep your current job while going down the modular route is by far the most sensible option. What I think is interesting is that by my calculations the total cost of training for a modular course at £84,000 isn’t as significant a difference to the integrated MPL course training cost at £100,000 as many would have you believe.

For a young person with no other financial commitments and no significant income yet I could see how a cadet based integrated MPL course could actually be the most attractive option. Especially given that there is a semi-guaranteed job at the end (with associated guaranteed salary), there is no double accounting for accommodation (you have to live somewhere) and the possibility of some of the training costs being repaid to you via the training bond (maybe?!). Obviously this raises the issue of a young person with no significant income being able to raise the funds!

I see absolutely no benefit in undertaking an integrated course that ISN’T a cadet course, either ATPL or MPL. You have all of the negative costs without any of the guaranteed employment at the end (even noting the links that the training centres have to place students in to airline jobs at the end). In addition, a review of the available jobs shows a significant reduction in the number of airlines that employ newly qualified pilots, for example easyJet requires a minimum of 500 hours, therefore employment as a new pilot is really only available via the cadet programme.

The final thing to mention is of course non-financial considerations. For me, with a house, wife and commitments in the UK, swanning off for a few months to go flying in NZ/Europe and training in London/Oxford isn’t actually that appealing. This is a further draw to the modular approach where I can choose my training locations.

Potential_Pilot

9th Sep 2018, 18:08

Hi Negan,

My costings do assume a fATPL costs about £54k based on training in the UK (which is a little bit more than training in Europe). I've assumed £30k for a A320 type rating to get to the £84k total for a modular course. The idea is that gives equivalent qualifications to the easyJet MPL cadet scheme where you are type rated ready for line flying. Unfortunatley, it's very difficult to find an accurate value for the type rating so that's a bit of an approximate value.

rudestuff

10th Sep 2018, 09:25

Hi, clearly you're doing your homework and youryo at the 'figuring out of this is a good idea' stage - so allow me to pay devils advocate.

1 - don't even think about any of it until you have a class one medical in your hand and a trial lesson or two under your belt.

2 - this career does favour the young and adventurous. If you don't like the idea of 'swanning off' - is this the career for you? The golden rule is you apply for every job and take the first one offered, where ever that happens to be. And if that happens to be Flybe then you'll be looking at a £10k pay cut for a while.

3 - Doing it all part time is a great idea, if you can work, study, sleep, repeat. As soon as you throw in any kind of a life and family, it all goes to rat-**** so one of those is going to suffer. You want to be a pilot - which means you'll be getting a divorce soon anyway.

4 - The current job climate is the best there has been for decades - paying for a type rating should be consigned to the dustbin of history by the time you get through.

therodri2

17th Sep 2018, 16:47

** DELETED **

Bridgestone17

18th Sep 2018, 07:51

To Potential Pilot,
Take on board what "rudestuff" has said below.
If you can make your "Modular" plan work - and it will be tough going - there will be a lot of domestic upheaval involved when you do eventually get your first job as it will be more than likely that you will have to move to be near your job or fund local accommodation on a smaller salary than you are currently on. Does your wife also have a career? Will she be prepared to move and also to live on much less money? Is it worth all of this just to fly a plane? Look hard at the last part of item 3. You sound as if you are doing just fine on £45K and you could just do a PPL with add on ratings then get a group share in a plane close to your home and fly when you want to - not when you are told to. Airline rosters play havoc with a personal life and you will be flying (its just a job at the end of the day) at all sorts of times of the day and maybe not be at home for special occasions.
This career is really only suitable for young and single people.
Take heed![

QUOTE=rudestuff;10245518]Hi, clearly you're doing your homework and your at the 'figuring out of this is a good idea' stage - so allow me to pay devils advocate.

1 - don't even think about any of it until you have a class one medical in your hand and a trial lesson or two under your belt.

2 - this career does favour the young and adventurous. If you don't like the idea of 'swanning off' - is this the career for you? The golden rule is you apply for every job and take the first one offered, where ever that happens to be. And if that happens to be Flybe then you'll be looking at a £10k pay cut for a while.

3 - Doing it all part time is a great idea, if you can work, study, sleep, repeat. As soon as you throw in any kind of a life and family, it all goes to rat-**** so one of those is going to suffer. You want to be a pilot - which means you'll be getting a divorce soon anyway.

4 - The current job climate is the best there has been for decades - paying for a type rating should be consigned to the dustbin of history by the time you get through.[/QUOTE]

Chris the Robot

18th Sep 2018, 12:00

I'm in my mid-twenties and I'm tempted to start modular over the next six months or so, there are however a few practicalities that I'm thinking about.

Piloting is the only career that I would rather do than my current job (train driving), that means I'm going to want a way back in to my current career if the airline world doesn't work out or if I can't find a job. It might be difficult to get back into a train driving career if I've been out of the driving cab for more than 12-18 months.

I have a three-month notice period, this is standard in my job regardless of employer. Would this be a problem for airlines looking to recruit? I certainly know of one or two cadet programmes it could potentially rule me out of.

It would be difficult to get six weeks off straight to do a JOC-MCC (particularly an APS one), there's a possibility that I would need to resign to start one of these (though it is a very long way off to be honest). A lot of the leave at my work (about 4/7ths of it) is pre-allocated by the employer, including a two weeks block.

I am tempted by the idea of pursuing the PPL, then doing CPL theory and an FI rating and instructing part-time around my current job for a couple of years, then if/when I did the MCC-JOC, I'd potentially have something to go full-time to providing an income of sorts (albeit perhaps limited). A lot of cadet programmes (I'm thinking any loan guaranteed/fully funded ones only if I'd reached this point) say that a candidate must not have started ATPL theory, would a CPL theory/FI rating be a bit much for them? I did happen to meet a microlight instructor at a cadet programme assessment but that's a wholly different licencing scenario.

Alternatively, I could look to save for the next five years or so and look to do one of the self-funded mentored cadet programmes up-front cash, albeit with a very limited powered flying background. No mortgage or spouse/kids at the moment.

nord121

18th Sep 2018, 12:07

Hello All,

I’m trying to gather various information on schools to start my PPL with with the vision of going on to do the other modules. I already have a class 1 and am stuck between a few schools.

Does anyone have any information on flyteam.hu? They are a small outfit operating out of Hungary who seem to have the time to devote to me wanting to do the module in one bash and offer distance learning that is imperative for my job.

Also worth mentioning that the price is decent as well.

Cheers.

PelicanSquawk

18th Sep 2018, 12:17

Chris the Robot

26th Sep 2018, 15:23

Thank you for the advice, I've taken a few days to think things through and simply going for a PPL at this point makes good sense. It'll give me an idea of what sort of workload to expect, and will likely function as a good "aptitude test" in it's own way.

I've always wanted to fly recreationally anyway. In five years I'd be nearly 32, scary how quickly time passes by.

Knowing my luck, if I did go down the modular route, the big airlines would probably open up the fully sponsored route again...

meldubai

17th Dec 2018, 10:21

Hi all! wanted to ask your advise on the MPL Licence? Pro's and Con's? I'm a newbie entering this field straight after high school...

Seems a catch22 to me in some respects after googling for a week all the routes to becoming a commercial airline pilot...traditional route of PPL and subsequent licences at a flight school means i walk away with frozen licence and I have to find a way to get the 1500 hours or an MPL where i get the flying hours but perhaps MPL is not widely recognised and may be an issue if later on i want to progress to say Emirates?

advise pls in general and specifically this school would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

romain7824

3rd Jan 2019, 18:24

Hello,

I've seen one of your post about modular courses.
I have a frozen ATPL, I'm looking for a flight school.
I'm in France but I'd like to go in a foreign country.
If you have any advice I would be very grateful.
As you can see my english is not perfect ahah that's why I'd like to move from France but actually I only know diamond flight academy.
The UK is too expensive.

Thanks for your answer,
Happy new year,
Romain

Silverds88

30th Jan 2019, 11:47

Hello guys, i would like to urge any Greek (and not only ) intend to start aviation training in Poland do not hesitate to contact me for help or informations. I would be happy to help anytime.

Gnoe

23rd Feb 2019, 19:56

Hello gentlemen,

I am making a (rather late, I'm 33) career switch into aviation. I am halfway through my PPL and next summer I want to start my route/track to my ATPL. I quit my job so I am gonna spend all my time to the ATPL training. I have two major questions:
1. Is it better to do Integrated ATPL or Modular ATPL? What's the perception of the airlines on this?
2. What is the perception of the airlines on the Czech Schools? And does anybody know a Czech school that offers an Integrated ATPL in less than 3 years? I can only find Czech Aviation Training Centre. The other ones who offer an Integrated ATPL make you take it in a 3 years bachelor degree or try to push towards Modular ATPL for some reason... Does anybody have an opinion on the quality of the aformentioned CATC?

PM me if you please.

Thank you very much for all helpful information, and even for any effort at all!

Best regards.

==========================
You can’t use the Private Messaging system, add url links or images until you have an established posting history.

FuturePilot6

24th Feb 2019, 13:11

Hi everyone

I am 20 years old and I am going to start pursuing my dream when I get my class 1 medical issued. I have decided to go modular, the aviation business seems to be good and stable (if brexit doesn't affect anything in EASA). I have the funds to do integrated, but after all I decided to go modular mostly because of the price, the flexibility and opportunity to start with flying than theory.

I'll start PPL in Southern Spain, after that hour building (110ish PIC) and ATPL theory full time. After this, I've planned to do the CPL ME/IR in Sweden, Diamond Flight Academy and after getting these licenses, APS MCC probably in SKY4U in Berlin. My dream would be RYR/SunExpress or even Norwegian if they have low hour pilot jobs available at that time. Modular can also be done in a quicker pace than in some integrated ones and in every integrated program I've seen, they start with the theory. In my opinion, it is better to start with flying and during the theory it is also important to fly to "maintain" the motivation.

I hope to hear some opinions about my "route" to the flight deck and also some other schools which are as good as (or better than) DFA in Sweden and APS MCC.

FuturePilot6

LlamaFarmer

24th Feb 2019, 16:51

the aviation business seems to be good and stable (if brexit doesn't affect anything in EASA).

Monarch, Air Berlin, Alitalia, Primera, FlyBMI, Flybe, Germania, Cobalt, Small Planet... and that's not even all of them.

Wow and Norwegian are in very big trouble too.

So I would be careful about saying the aviation business seems to be good and stable.
We're on the edge of another recession and airlines are the canary in the coalmine...

Pilot.21

4th Mar 2019, 18:12

Posted this yesterday: was moved to the backend one of the stickies page 46!! Much of the information is about 9 years old or further back. As atpls have undergone changes I Wanted it as a stand alone question anyway I digress. So distant learners are YOU THERE??

Hi fellow Ppruners; I have a few questions regarding atpls directed at the distance learners amongst the community.

those of you that are doing it distant learning; is there anybody who is comleteing the course within 6-8 months? (in the UK) I would like to hear from you!!
As the main atpl providers are quoting 10 to 18 months. ( that is average 15 hours a week for 3 months minimum )I understand that most people will have commitments outside aviation and try to fit it around work etc.

Also the new style of questions are now a completely different animal to previous years and thus questions are not so predictable; thus students now have to think more and rely on their own knowledge; which must be up to scratch come exam time.

Is anybody studying the distance learning but full time from home i.e. putting in about 30 hours a week of self study?? does your school allow for this or is their course structured so it is all metered out and they can control how long a student has to study before a revision week.

it seem to me that unless you can do a residential course for 6 months you are stuck with the long and protracted distance learning time frame anyone with recent experience contrary to this?

I would be a mature student and would like to get through them as quickly as possible but also understand that they are not to be underestimated in effort and volume of information.

I look forward to you replies

many thanks

thisishomebrand

7th Mar 2019, 14:14

Weather dependant, but my instructors weren't keen to go above 2 hours of lessons a day when learning new things. Then once building hours you could probably do 3-5 hours a day.

WingsofRoffa

12th Mar 2019, 13:14

I didn’t want to start a new thread but hoping somebody can offer some advice -

I have started my PPL and will build hours at my local flying school (Stapleford) and wish to eventually complete an ATPL.

If I complete the rest of my modules (Theory through MCC) with a flight school such as CAE/L3/FTA, will I be able to take advantage of their relationships with airlines?

Is it better to do all modules at the same school? Or all flying at one school and theory elsewhere?

thanks!

WingsofRoffa

13th Mar 2019, 09:35

The big schools may find you a job, but their priority is to their airline tagged cadets and integrated students so you would be behind them both in the pecking order throughout your training.

Stapleford have a good reputation among airlines and have one of the best CPL ME IR courses in the country with a very very high 1st series pass rate.

They won't sugarcoat anything and will be honest with you all the time without the sales pitch you will see from the big schools.

I would speak to the students there who are doing the advanced courses and see what their opinion is.

Great, thank you.

So after 24 months, with my shiny license in hand. It is then a case of waiting for a newly qualified DEP role to become available (like BA’s current one) or do you send CVs around?

WingsofRoffa

13th Mar 2019, 13:14

Normally yes, I would advise doing something like Wings Alliance who would monitor your progress all the way and then when you do the MCC they will assist you in your CV, interviews and finding you a job. Kura Aviation do something similar but only once you do their MCC course.

I am actually considering going through WA. Presumably they add quite a substantial margin above and beyond the schools standard costs for this service?

MJ2k13

22nd Mar 2019, 13:26

Hi,
I am going to be starting my pilot training in 1month (Integrated ATPL), however, I do not want to be doing my MCC/JOC with them as I’m planning on doing it with another organisation like VA, Kura, simtech etc.
My question is: would it be possible for me to do this and would I get some of my money reimbursed?
If it’s possible, do I have to inform them about my decision before I enroll on to my training or just let them know when the time comes..?

I’m looking forward to your responses!
Many thanks in advance.

MJ2k13

22nd Mar 2019, 20:34

I agree, however, I have only recently decided that I want to alter my path to do my MCC somewhere else. Which is why I’m asking if it may be possible.

Danyal1

17th Apr 2019, 10:23

Hi,

If I choose to go down the modular route, how many ATO’s can I do my flying with? I understand the airlines prefer a maximum of 2 schools. Would this include PPL and ground school or just the professional flying?

Thanks

cavok_flyer

18th Apr 2019, 13:21

I was at a different flight school for almost every step, and have had 3 direct entry interviews at different carriers. Why three? I am looking for the best offer :ok: Waiting for the Sim evaluations, now.

skyboy83

21st Apr 2019, 15:20

I understand the airlines prefer a maximum of 2 schools

hahahahahaha. Come on! Don’t believe Flight school’s bulls**ts. Be sure that airlines really don’t care!

Speedbird 2652

22nd Apr 2019, 20:41

Do airlines generally treat MPL candidates the same as ATPL holders nowadays, or will your type of license greatly influence jop opportunities should your MPL-ATO airline go bust?

A complete MPL automatically includes a type rating, so I’d imagine chances aren’t too bad on the job hunt?

Victor Golf

28th Apr 2019, 19:21

I went modular and the life experience travelling to different countries in Europe was very valuable for me

Definitely would go Modular again if I had to start over, if you shop around you will be surprised how cheap you can do modular training compared to Integrated and at the end of the day you get the same licence

lmck95

29th May 2019, 13:57

L3, CAE or FTE?

Having now graduated from University, I am currently deciding between the 3 main ATPL flight schools for an integrated course. Can anyone shed some light on the important differences between them, and recommend one? I have tried to forensically compare the three but they all claim high completion and employment rates, as well as a number of airline partners. FTE seems unique due to its campus set-up, but L3 seem to have a good employment rate. I have also read on another thread potential delays for L3 cadets?

All help is massively appreciated.

tolip1

29th May 2019, 17:49

lmck95

29th May 2019, 20:28

If you are going L3, do an MPL course. Their ATPL course isn't fit for purpose, you will get it quicker going modular.

Thanks for that information. Why do you say their ATPL course isn’t fit for purpose? Any views on the other two schools?

Airbus380wannabe

4th Jun 2019, 11:47

Hi guys, i Am currently 21 years old . My plan is to go to germany for lets say 3-4 years and make money to pay for my 50 k full time training with Bartolini and 35k for type rating . However I would like to know your opinion about this .

Is this a right way ? or Should i go Modular part time ( pay i as i have money) along with my job, with various schools.

The second way sounds more appealing to me since i wont be just working working and only after 3 years i can begin my flying . I also heard that doing everything in one recognizable school and having your fly certificates in short span is more favorable among hiring airlines . i would like to go to Poland ,Bartolini . Thanks

Zemer

25th Jun 2019, 18:19

Hi,
does someone study his ATPL with careeratpl.com ??
Distance learning.
Thanks for any kind of information

Honza Tran

29th Jun 2019, 12:28

Hello guys as I said i am wondering if its smart to do my pilot training as I go(pay as you go) . Or save all my money and then do it in one haul. Does having long gaps in training affect anything? Thanks for your answer.

Flyinghigh54674

16th Jul 2019, 23:52

Has anybody recently completed FTEs self sponsored AFOP assesment ?

Flyinghigh54674

16th Jul 2019, 23:53

A friend of mine has just been informed of 8 months of waiting at L3

nib1600

27th Jul 2019, 18:42

Hello there,

I wonder if anybody could help please.

I am currently deciding which flight school to undergo an Integrated FATPL and so far I have looked at both CAE in Oxford, and FTA Global in Shoreham.

Having searched the forum I have found numerous threads about FTA asking about the quality of the school with limited response, I was just wondering if anybody reading this could help me out and point me in the right direction please?! Ideally somebody who has completed the FTA integrated 'flight deck' programme and has now landed a job.

There employment statistics seem very impressive with apparently 94% of their students having a job as a pilot within a year.

My question is as FTA is closer to me within commuting distance, and the fact that it is considerably cheaper than CAE even before you add on accommodation and travel costs, would FTA be the better place for me?

Thanks for looking and I look forward to your responses!

Kind Regards,

Oscar

TryingToAvoidCBs

29th Jul 2019, 22:49

" apparently 94% of their students having a job as a pilot within a year "

Be careful of believing the hype. CTC used to claim that 98% of their students got employed within a year, but upon closer inspection it was 98% of a very small number of specific cadets on specific courses.

future_pilot_di

6th Aug 2019, 23:01

Hi,

Like every aspiring pilot, I have a question regarding which route to take, based on the which route will have the higher chances of actually landing a job. Time isn't an issue with me, therefore ideally I'd be up or going Modular route. However, just the stories you hear that the majority of airlines prefer those that went Integrated ( especially bigger ones), so that's what puts me off.

I can go either way really. However, integrated I'd need to save up 4/5 years before I can apply to schools. Just downside is obviously the huge cost. Despite this, I'm willing to save up, and fork out that amount, if it increases my chances a lot of landing a job rather quickly once on finishing ( due to ties which fight schools have with airlines). Just before this route, I'll actually need to save up the money...

At the same time, I'm also considering Modular. As with this option, I can actually start my training a lot sooner, from this year ( as opposed to waiting 4/5 years). And to be honest, by the time I'd have saved up enough to go integrated, I'd probably have become qualified to become a commercial pilot ( complete all training) through Modular. This, plus the fact that it will be far cheaper, is what leads me to this direction.

However, just the likeness of actually getting a job, after qualifying via Modular route - is what holds me back.

So really just seeking advice of the best route. Anyone who studied through modular and actually landed roles care to share their opinion?

Thanks :)

rudestuff

7th Aug 2019, 21:14

Go for the quickest route. It's a very cyclical industry. Every year you delay makes your career a year shorter. That's a year you don't spend as a senior captain making a senior captains salary...

future_pilot_di

8th Aug 2019, 16:07

Which for me would probably be Modular...But job prospects via modular? is it the same as Integrated route...?

ramster211

2nd Sep 2019, 09:52

Hi there,

I am currently enrolled in a modular flight school that shall remain nameless for now. I am not too happy with them as they provide very little information and do not answer questions. I have finished my ATPL exams and right now im in the lovley phase of just gathering hours til i can start the CPL.

Is there anyone here that can recomend a good modular european flight school?
Do airlines pay attention to what flight school you did your training at? As in, is it of significant value if your records say CAE or something else instead?

reaktionary

22nd Sep 2019, 17:52

Hi all,

I am a 17 year old British citizen who currently lives in the United States. I've been wanting to become a pilot for as long as I can remember, and I am currently attempting to examine all pathways available to me since my residence is not permanent in the USA - I do not have a Green card, or citizenship here. Because of this, I would like to return to the UK to do flight training, but the options all seem to have varying pros and cons, and I am struggling to make sense of the intricacies and weird little caveats everywhere - that is certainly one thing the US seems to do better, flight training! I was wondering if I could perhaps receive any kind of advice from you all.

The pathways I have identified are the following:

1.) Return to the UK, do the integrated ATPL/MPL with L3 Airline Academy, and slap on the Middlesex University degree on the side.
Pros:
- Seemingly easier and wider opportunities for employment with a major airline
- All the "components" required are all done quickly in one course
- The Flight Training seems to take a relatively shorter time (18 months is the timeframe they have stated, though I have read on here lately that there are delays of sorts occurring too, not sure if that would still be relevant to me as someone who would start next autumn).
Cons:
- Cost. 100,000 pounds is not a small sum at all. While we could pay this off, I'm worried that this is an overly inflated cost that does not provide a true value for what you are provided.
- (Lack of) reputation. I have heard horror stories about L3 being a scam, and delaying training for up to a year for certain students. I do not want to sink 100,000 pounds into what is described as a ponzi scheme by certain people.
- (Lack of) flying experience. Their programs seem to have a great emphasis on streamlining the training process to cut out a lot of parts of professional development and piloting skills, such as flying aircraft solo and actually attaining relevant licenses.

2.) Return to the UK, attend a Uni that offers Aviation studies, such as Kingston University or Bucks New University
Pros:
- My predicted and attained grades are more than enough to attend these places.
- They offer to take up students to an fATPL in three years, and graduates seem to achieve employment with decent airlines.
- They offer better conceptual understanding and a wider education, such as knowledge about the airline industry as a whole and management techniques.
Cons:
- When I say "My predicted and attained grades are more than enough to attend these places" - I mean they are far higher than what is demanded from these unis. I can apply to far superior unis than Kingston or BNU, and I am worried that they have low required grades for a reason; perhaps their facilities or teaching is subpar compared to others, and I want to go a good university that is both recognised and academically interesting.
- Cost. It is just as expensive as doing L3+Middlesex.

And finally, 3.) Go to a better University, get a degree in something unrelated to aviation (leaning towards doing something in Business, personally), then pursuing flight training after graduating and doing it with either an integrated or modular programme. (Bear in mind that I will hold an FAA PPL before I go off to uni in the UK, so I will look to be converting it there so it's one less year of Flight training I need to do.)
Pros:
- A better uni experience, as I can apply to Russell Group unis with my current predicted grades, and get a strong degree in something else as a "fallback" in the case that aviation doesn't work out for me in the future.
- Lower costs. I can get local fees in the UK (and in Scotland) and can apply for student support, making uni relatively cheap for me. I will also try to convert my FAA PPL to an EASA PPL, lowering training costs there. If I do a modular programme, it can cost up to 40,000 pounds less than what it may cost if I did it with the other two pathways.
- Higher employability. I'm sure airlines appreciate good degrees, after all.
Cons:
- Modular programmes - I'm currently trying to look into them, but good modular programmes in the UK seem few and far between. I cannot find many Flight schools in the UK that go beyond PPLs - perhaps I am not looking hard enough. I would appreciate some suggestions on this.
- More time taken - to get a degree, it may take 3/4 years, and then an additional year on top of that to get my further qualifications to fly.

Am I missing any additional pros and cons? Please let me know :)

So given these three pathways, what is the most adviseable one, in all of your opinions?

Goatea999

16th Oct 2019, 11:31

Hi folks

I am around 20ish hours into my PPL and considering next steps in terms of my flying. I currently have a non aviation related management related career. When starting my flying it was just a hobby and I was just planning on carrying on with my current career . However the more i fly the more im starting to realise that I enjoy it far too much not to pursue it as a career. However, my problem is that I feel overwhelmed with choice/the weight of making the right decision in terms of flight school/route (integrated/modular) to take. I am in the really fortunate position that funding is not an issue but just feel unable to take the next step due to this indecision, this is also linked to the fact it means turning my life on its head. (Sell house/get rid of car/turn back on current career)

Just wondered if anyone who has been in this position could share how they made the choice? Also any people with experience of making these big life/career changes to pursue their flying and how they eventually got to the point of making the decision just to go for it?!

cavok_flyer

17th Oct 2019, 21:23

Goatea999,
Sort of in the same position as you a few years ago. I would go modular since you keep the hard won economic security that you have built up over the years, and you can bail from either your job or the training at any time if you need. Staying modular, you do not need to sell anything since you will still have a cash flow from your present job.

willf123

11th Dec 2019, 18:39

Hello,

I'm looking to do my flight training abroad and have some questions which I can't find the answer to anywhere on the internet its to do with modular but if needs moving to a different thread it can be.

1) What is the process like converting from an ICAO to an EASA for PPL CPL ME IR, what are the costs involved and any recommendations?

2) If I do my ATPL and MCC in the UK what licence do I get?

4) What are the benefits of converting to an EASA?

5) Will I need to continue to convert throughout my career depending on where I am flying or does a frozen ATPL allow to fly everywhere no matter where it is issued?

6) Any other information about conversion and licences.

Thank you so much if you do reply as I am rather confused at the moment, feel free to PM as well with information or other contact methods.

rudestuff

12th Dec 2019, 17:50

All good questions, all answered ten times over on this and other forums..

Max1996

23rd Jan 2020, 12:56

Modular Halil

13th Feb 2020, 15:37

Hi, I started my search for a cadet program for me to join. I am new and have decided to look for an integrated program that will give me the best chances. The modular route I am not interested in. I saw the Aer Lingus program which I will apply for. Also I saw the Ryanair program with AFTA. The selection seems the same but not sure if Ryanair pays for the training. After the selection is there a job guarantee?

I don't think you have a job guarantee going through AFTA for Ryanair mentored programme as it says youll be trained by AFTA then youll have a final assessment from Ryanair and upon completion you will be accepted for a Ryanair mentored scheme.

I highly advise you go modular why such a rush to get into the flight deck ? You can get your licences for as little as 50k modular but sure you can get crippled by 100k loan repayments and intrest payments, then turn sour for the rest of your career. Food for thought

modular halil

final point: if you want to go intergrated go onto easy jets/ L3

Christopher Robin

15th Feb 2020, 18:11

The modular route I am not interested in

How very strange I wonder why not ?

Brian Pern

15th Feb 2020, 20:47

Max, you pay €86000.00 for the course, plus exam accommodation etc so let's call it €120000.00 to be safe.
Then you have an assessment with Ryanair, if they offer you a job expect another €30 -40000 for the Type Rating and other costs.
intergrated could end up being €160000.00 quite a lot of money to fork out before you even earn a cent. Think very very hard. I doubt you.will, but I feel I should at least mention it.

Modular Halil

15th Feb 2020, 20:50

it's only €160000 lets remorgage mum's house :ugh:

Brian Pern

15th Feb 2020, 21:13

sounds like a plan, while we are at it let's repmorgage grans house as well.😬

Max1996

18th Feb 2020, 09:34

I have been finding out that there are cadet schemes with a job guarantee and schemes without but they are advertised the same way ( or at least pretend to be the same). AFTA eventually were clear that there is no job if you do the Ryanair program but only an interview. If I go modular can I also apply with Ryanair? Would all students be having the same interview?

Modular Halil

18th Feb 2020, 22:03

Ryanair require a report from your head of training at the flight schools you use and detailed reports, Ryanair are the biggest recruiter of modular students in Europe's since they swipe up the low hour cadets theyre mostly a stepping stone airline you do your TR then some go to the ME the type raiting bond is alright I think its a 5 year bond. Also they require really good ATPLpasses im not sure weather its all first time passes or how many re-takes have to be disclosed apparently people have been refused because of atpls.

tugpilot1997

19th Feb 2020, 13:51

At some point soon I'm going to take the plunge and start the next phase of my journey which will be ATPL ground school. Am looking at full-time over 6 months.

I've seen a few ground schools around, A few I have in mind are CAE Oxford, FTA, Stapleford and Skyborne. Does anyone have any recommendations on these ground schools? Or any others I should look at? I've done the whole spiel of speaking to them at events and contacting etc. But want to know anyone who has had experience with any of them, or able shed some light?

portos8

27th Feb 2020, 15:11

If I go modular can I also apply with Ryanair? Would all students be having the same interview?

Yes. WHEN RYR is hiring, they will hire anyone that meets their standard regardless whether they did the modular or integrated route. I think they give preference now to cadets that have done the APSMCC, so if you want to really work for RYR then do the modular training route (plenty of options for around €60.000) plus the APSMCC. This APS MCC is quite a new thing and only Ryanair puts stock in this course ( it was supposedly developed by someone in Ryanair), all other operators just require the MCC/JOC, and I believe that during the next RYR hiring spree they will mostly hire standard MCC/JOC because there are only a few people that have the APS MCC. The market changes fast so best to take it one step at the time by going modular.

Modular Halil

27th Feb 2020, 15:16

The market changes fast so best to take it one step at the time by going modular.

preach!:D

airlines only really care if you will fit in their environment and if you're successful in interviews! You still have the same licence in the end as an ab-nitio student! Theyre just in more debt and you could have more hours and better written exam results!

MaverickPrime

28th Feb 2020, 14:17

The modular route will get you into the cockpit eventually and the majority of people actually go down the modular route; despite what the marketing folks say.

My advice is to stick to modular schools only if you want to go down the modular route. If you are modular, don’t use an integrated school for any part of your training, because no matter what they promise you they will always prioritise the integrated cadets in terms of the training schedule.

When it comes to jobs however, all bets are off, the airlines treat everyone the same. They are employing you, investing in you, taking a risk on you and they only want the best candidates. Generally speaking, they don’t care how much you paid for your training, what school you came from or who you know. They only care if you are competent enough to bring 190 passengers and a $70 million dollar aircraft back in one piece.

Scouseflier85

1st Mar 2020, 13:00

Can anyone give me a realistic price of modular training in the uk, also a realistic time frame with a full time job, I am 34 and absolutely ready for the career change, I am currently a maintenance engineer in the automotive sector, and feel if I don’t do it now I will forever regret it any advice would be greatly appreciated thanks.

rudestuff

1st Mar 2020, 14:16

Yeah you can. There are so many variables you should price it up yourself based on where you are prepared to travel to etc.. Price up PPL, night, 50 hours cross country, CBIR, MEP, MEIR add-on, 15 hour SE CPL and whatever extra hours you need to meet 200/100. Add in the cost of ATPLs and exams and flight tests. Bear in mind it may be cheaper to join a syndicate for hour building etc.

Modular Halil

1st Mar 2020, 17:36

I havw the price sheet for aeros however im not sure how to share but they're in line with industry

depends if you have any dependants if not or they don't mind I recommend wings alliance/bartiloni in Poland you can get a dull frozen ATPL for just over 50k depending on your current licences, for example if you don't need a PPL and IR NR then you can get everything else for much less

fiddle about with this:https://wingsalliance.eu/training/pilot-training-budget-calculator/

the rate is how quick you can get it done each licence, I'd say no less than 2 years if you still want to be in full time employment. Hope this helps

Adaero88

9th Mar 2020, 23:15

Hello guys, its my first post here, can someone give me an actual feedback about MEP IR CPL program in either Poland,Hungary or Czech?

shamrock_f22

4th May 2020, 08:32

AspiringPilot28 I can't message you back as you've filled your quota - try deleting a few messages then tag me into your reply on here.

Banana Joe

4th May 2020, 08:50

I did it at Bartolini 3 years ago and I was super happy. I would do it all over again, especially now that they are partners with Ryanair. It is a bit more expensive than other options in the area, but you get what you pay for. And it's still relatively cheaper than the rest of Europe.
LOT also like their trainees, especially if you speak Polish.

AspiringPilot28

4th May 2020, 10:57

Hey man, it should be clear now. Cheers

shamrock_f22

4th May 2020, 15:48

AspiringPilot28 nope try clearing your inbox and sent items maybe

C.luc

25th Jun 2020, 14:01

Hello everyone, a few months ago the future seemed very clear with how the aviation industry was.
However, due to obvious recent events this is no longer the case...
Therefore i need some advice and especially feedback from recent ATPL students.

A bit of context:
I am nearing the completion of my mandatory military service thus looking forward to going on to study. Applied to the CAE Generation easyJet programme a few months back and successfully passed all stages of the assessments.
This was in extremely close proximity to countries initiating their lock-down due to Covid-19 and thus i became worried that easyJet may cancel the MPL course. Lo and behold a couple of weeks after receiving the best news, i received the worst.
A letter from easyJet explaining why the programme will be 'suspended' at least for the time being (i think for a long long time personally). So, now with this new information i have to make a decision regarding the future.

CAE is high on my consideration at the moment as I have been offered a spot on their traditional Integrated ATPL course with a priority of transfer onto the Generation easyJet MPL if it happens to relaunch at any time during my Theory training (6-8 months).
Additionally CAE is a lucrative offer as they have the option of 'opting in' for parallel studies for a Bs(c) Hons in Air Transport Management. This is mixed in during various phases of the Integrated course and at the end upon graduation you have 300 out of 360 credits for the full Bs(c) Hons.
If I opt in i will definitely re-enroll to complete the degree and upgrade it to the full 360 credits. My thinking in choosing this route is that in approximately 2-2.5 years time i will have graduated and also have a degree as a backup/advantage in what could potentially be a very competitive hiring market. As well as having the option to go even further and study for a Masters if the industry is still at the earlier stages of recovery by the time I will have completed the ATPL.
COST: 90,000 GBP plus 5000 GBP for the degree. Additionally an average of 500 GBP per months for accommodation.

My only doubt regarding CAE is the various rumors/feedback floating around groups and forums about delays and or poor training due to Instructors coming and going rapidly. (perhaps the instructor situation will become more stable in light of corona and unemployment threat.)

The alternative option is FTA Global, as i have had some good feedback surrounding this school. The total cost purely for the ATPL will come around 78000 GBP, again with a similar or slightly cheaper cost of accommoddation (I imagine no cheaper than 400 GBP per month).
However if I follow this route there is no added element of the degree. I am also not entirely sure how their hiring aid fares upon graduation.

Any feedback/advice would be greatly appreciated, if anyone knows of other reputable academies with good feedback please let me know.
I have considered modular but Integrated seems to be the preferred course by airlines and I imagine there are benefits of having your whole training experience handled by one provider for the sake of continuity and smooth transitions.
I have decent grades from school and could potentially look into traditional University degrees but I am not sure i would be passionate enough about a subject that i have to find in a relatively short amount of time that is outside of aviation. As-well as the fact that for a lot of Universities i would not be able to apply for this academic year which would mean a major loss of time for me since i already had to spend time going through the mandatory military service.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I hope a positive and insightful discussion comes out of this.

Modular Halil

25th Jun 2020, 18:50

Okay this has to be up there with the most ludicrous remarks such as "modular students are better than intergrated" and "im going to start my training right after a global pandemic"

You honestly think airlines care if you went intergrated or not you'll find jet time is more important...so save a but of money and go modular..on no website does it say "intergrated students preferred":ugh:

A degree would be useful, if you get made redundant or your airline goes up the drain, im sure many other fellows on here would agree...

African_TrouserSnake

26th Jun 2020, 12:30

I strongly suggest you have a look around the forum before publishing your diary.

I get it, you want to chase your dream. But come on mate, seriously considering CAE or any integrated school costing in excess of 100.000 GBP with for the forseeable future literally 0 chance of a job afterwards? You're betting against very small odds with your future weatlh on the line.
Are you aware that easyjet MPL cadets awaiting basetraining got their contracts cancelled due to aviation crisis? Please tell me that you were not. I fear it wouldn't matter anyway because " brr brr I go fly aeroplawne heheh brr brr nice pilotsuit, i want boeing a320 hgahe", am I right?

Please notice that starting a whitetail integrated fATPL during/shortly after COVID does not show any positive traits.

Why? because it shows a probability that:

You are inclined to poor situational awareness
You are highly susceptible to confirmation bias
You haven't done a well founded research before making a decision with possibly major consequences
You are willing to gamble against very small odds with a possibly major consequences

I am not here to burn you down, but by looking at your previous post you tick atleast a few of the points listed above.

Just consider it as a warning, the financial burden is a hard one to carry for the rest of your life, even more so if as a binman.
Go back to the drawing board. Read aviation forums, enquire on facebook groups, do NOT take out a loan, consider modular, get a few PPL lessons, this forum is filled with sound advice --> don't only read the things that you'd like to hear.

I agree with Modular Halil about a degree, but please enquire about the job possibilities with that particular degree, as I have heard some say it is gimmick, but I dont know wether that is true.

C.luc

26th Jun 2020, 19:07

For your first point I wasnt explicitly aware that those students in the final stages had been terminated but figured so, an MPL definitely wouldnt be something id go for in the current state of the industry.

Secondly the reason i made this post is because i have major doubts regarding starting an integrated or any course now because as you say it is quite risky. However the biggest reason for even considering a school like CAE would be the possible advantage created by having gained a degree. That being said another reason to go modular would be the fact that i have a PPL and it would be pretty much redundant with the integrated ATPL.

Ontop of that looking at recent trends of traffic etc, the industry is slowly picking up. For example the domestic market in China has shown some very positive trends, could be viewed as a model as to how recovery may take its course in the EU for example.

Starting during these times could be viewed as a risk so less students overall will go for it meaning training could possibly come cheaper overall. Additionally do you really think the industry will be at these extremely low levels for more than 3-5 years? And if a second Covid wave hits it wont just be the aviation industry in major trouble and that will have no job prospects...

That being said, im still considering following another path something other than aviation, however I know for sure that if the industry recovers faster than expected i will regret the decision and want to take the aviation path as soon as i can. Thus possibly another financial burden or wasted money on another plan. The industry will definitely rise to pre-covid levels and even higher in time. World population is growing and people will always want to travel whether thats for business, pleasure or other reasons. On top of that, a first job during such times wont necessarily be in a big jet, there's a lot of opportunities in many sectors of the industry which provide useful experience and could potentially set you up for a job in the airlines as they recover. I think overall its better to invest and put effort into something are highly driven in rather than half heartedly go through a degree which doesnt necessarily make you tick, only to graduate and work a job dishing out very average or often below average wages when you can at least be working in the field you want even if initially the pay isnt the greatest.

All of that being said I havent pulled the trigger yet just exploring my options and all discussions like these have some positive come out of them, so thanks for taking the time to reply.

Modular Halil

26th Jun 2020, 20:54

https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/628378-cae-easyjet-mpl-2020-a-9.html

Read this. Airlines are still getting rid of peopel and you think you'll get a job even for a small company? Doubt it, mate dont do it you have a PPL go modular. Sky-blue summed it up really well.

African_TrouserSnake

26th Jun 2020, 22:06

For your first point I wasnt explicitly aware that ...

Thanks for clearing that up, it seems as if you have tought about it. However I can still sense an considerable amount of (here we go again) confirmation bias in your reply.

Additionally do you really think the industry will be at these extremely low levels for more than 3-5 years?

In my opinion AT LEAST 3-5 years, but noone knows and I don't pretend that I do. By looking at the past we can only hope for 3-5 years. Please remember that COVID is not only hitting the airlines, but the global economy.
If you don't take it from me please subscribe yourself to the 'european airline pilots' facebook group, there is a large amount of senior captains talking about unseen and unprecedented never seen before in their career doubting they will ever fly again. (now driving delivery trucks btw, should be a red flag for you to get a degree!)

The industry will definitely rise to pre-covid levels and even higher in time
World population is growing and people will always want to travel whether thats for business, pleasure or other reasons.
For example the domestic market in China has shown some very positive trends, could be viewed as a model as to how recovery may take its course in the EU for example.

[source required]:}
It would be wise to abstain yourself from these gutfeelings as it based on thin air. As you have already displayed by writing something among the lines of 'integrated is preferred by airlines', stick to the facts mate you sound like a amateur psychologist crossbred with a fortune teller.

Your train of tought is EXACTLY the kind of peak confirmation bias which tends to get newbies into trouble. I don't where you get it from, is it from the flightschool ads or u-tube pilots? In both cases they only care about maintaining their business, wether it is by selling you snakeoil or not.

I think overall its better to invest and put effort into something are highly driven in rather than half heartedly go through a degree which doesnt necessarily make you tick, only to graduate and work a job dishing out very average or often below average wages when you can at least be working in the field you want even if initially the pay isnt the greatest.

How about whole heartedly going trough a degree which makes you tick, only to graduate and work an unrelated job at minimum wage with no perspective of the getting the job you studied for. It is sad but this was the reality post 2008 for a LONG time.

You will probably think 'oh well so what, doesn't matter for how long I will have to wait, as long as I get to brrrr fly the plane brrr brr.
Washing dishes or driving around in a Tesco truck for 40h per week at minimum wage, living at your parents' only to spend the majority of your pay on your loan's interest. it will make 1 year seem like an eternity, let alone 2-3-4-5 years. You will quite literally become a voluntary wageslave.

i have a PPL and it would be pretty much redundant with the integrated ATPL.
Come on mate, why do you even consider integrated? Besides the no job and very very overpriced story, why would you even consider piping down a further 15k worth of ppl time for nothing? Get a degree and if you want to fly, start your ATPL theory. Life isn't always about fun you know, sometimes the hard way is the right way.

Basing on you're post you're quite young and I presume that you don't have the required money yourself.
It is none of my business and you're free to spend your money as you like, just make sure that you don't take others down with you (parents etc) in order for you to fulfill your needs of brr brr fly aeroplane.

I have read endless stories of parents / family shelling out the money for their precious son to make his dreams come true, without further researching the matter themselves and blindly trusting the flightschools great promises, only to have their little boy live as a depressed ghost in their basement, hiding from the debt collector while dad and mum pay off the biggest part of his interests.

Modular Halil

26th Jun 2020, 22:13

African_TrouserSnake

hear! hear!...OP if what you're coming here for is to have people agree with you and fuel your Mindest and approve your choices for choosing an easyjet mpl then you're in the wrong place...

ladyp1l0t

3rd Jul 2020, 11:24

I can't find any information on the internet about switching over from an integrated to a modular course.

I have started my ATPL theory and sat some exams but I am now looking to change to become a modular student.
The criteria on doing ATPL exams is that you must be either a PPL Licence Holder or be an integrated student.
Since I will soon be neither of those things (as ab initio training starts with the theoretical exams, not flying), how will this affect the legality of my ATPL theoretical exams?

Any info/advice/experience on switching would be much appreciated!

African_TrouserSnake

3rd Jul 2020, 22:59

Try to finish the ATPLs before leaving your integrated course, it will save you a whole lot of trouble.

Otherwise you'll have to obtain a PPL first (=go trough PPL theoretical + PPL Practical) before you can restart your ATPLs.
Which undoubtly will take a few months, meanwhile the period in which you will have to finish all of your ATPL exams will keep on ticking (max. 18 months counted from your first exam).
+ you'll have to find another groundschool (= paying again), which sucks if you've already paid your fees etc at the integrated school.

Some CAA's will even render your ATPL results invalid if you 'restart' your training program elsewhere, it is completely ridicilous but what can you do about it. Not all CAA's do this, so inform at your national CAA.

Have you already done some exams?

ladyp1l0t

4th Jul 2020, 08:02

I have already started some ATPL exams and I am due to finish Groundschool with my current school as I have finished all of theory and just waiting for exam dates due to Covid delays.

I’ve heard mixed opinions on whether ATPL exams would supersede my PPL exams such that I wouldn’t need to do that theory as well.

African_TrouserSnake

6th Jul 2020, 19:27

With all due respect, a forum might not be the place to get your info from. Inform at your national CAA.

I can only speak for my national CAA's rules but I am pretty sure they're a direct copy+paste from the EASA part FCL and other relevant annexes.

Your ATPL(A) exams will supersede your PPL(A) exams if and only if you have succesfully completed all of your exams and thus posses an ATPL theoretical knowledge certificate.

If you change from an integrated to a modular flightschool, with incomplete ATPLs you will need to adhere to the modular student requirements. Effectively meaning that you will be required to posess a PPL license before you can finish your remaining ATPL subjects ---> your thusfar completed ATPL exams will not be counted towards your PPL theoretical knowledge certificate, you will still need to complete ALL PPL subjects as required for issueing your PPL license.

Hence my advice; stay at your current (integrated) school untill you've completed all of your ATPLs. If you revert to modular now and silently complete your exams while being administrated as a modular student without a ppl license, you will not comply with the modular requirements and your results might be rendered invalid by your CAA.

Don't take a risk

Inform at your national CAA.
If the above information applies, stay integrated or make sure you can finish both PPL + remaining ATPLs within the required 18 month timeframe.

JiminyCricket

15th Jul 2020, 09:08

Hello guys,

I am an integrated ATPL student who recently finished ground school and is about to start VFR training. I should be finishing my MCC in a year, mabe less. The situation being what it is I am looking at options to weather the storm.

Does anyone know if it is possible to go from Integrated to modular? If so, how? I have all 14 ATPL theory modules validated but do not have a PPL, which is the first step of modular training.

rudestuff

15th Jul 2020, 15:58

You've done the hard bit. You can credit the ATPL exams downward for LAPL, PPL, CPL and IR. All you need to do is go and show those exams to a flight school, fly the hours and get the PPL.

ced0802

15th Jul 2020, 16:11

Funny how everyone wants to go modular route nowadays

African_TrouserSnake

15th Jul 2020, 18:40

JiminyCricket

As long as you have completed all subjects and recieved a decleration from your CAA proving this (theoretical knowledge certificate) you will be fine.
Your ATPL theory will be credited towards your PPL, effectively meaning that you don't have to sit the PPL theoretical exams.

JiminyCricket

15th Jul 2020, 20:18

Thank you for the answers guys. I have individual resultsfor each subject but I will look into the certificate you mentioned.

rudestuff

12th Aug 2020, 11:45

You don't need one. The printout of your ATPL subject results will be sufficient to show the school, the PPL would be issued based on CAA records anyway.

TTOscar

19th Nov 2020, 14:16

Hey all, not wanting to start a new thread, found out that this would be the most appropriate one. I've spent quite a few time reading and scrolling through all the posts here and in other threads before registering to post this and came about some of the ideas I've already had in my mind. Nevertheless, some not so much so here it goes:

My story is just like many other stories you read here: childhood dream of becoming a pilot, etc, etc. Finding myself in my last year of High School, I've always imagined of going into an ATPL integrated next year (2021). However, things have changed quite a bit as you all know (some I imagine in the toughest way). For the past few months I've been considering enrolling through an university degree (grades are not a problem- here you need a certain average from your high school grades as well as nationwide exams to get into a certain course). There's always that bitter feeling of not starting the ATPL next year, but I do feel it is the best thing to do and, after all, 3 years of my life may sound too much now but it certainly won't when I flashback this time of my life later on when I'm older. With that said, I'd still like to somehow be involved with flying and the industry these next years and figured out getting a PPL may not be bad idea, as I can even hold my license before I am 18 which would only be December next year when I'm at university already and not with a lot of spare time. But here is where my questions arise:

- By getting a PPL now, would that not enable me from after university enrolling into an ATPL integraded since a part of it is already done? Or is it possible that schools may accomodate me?
- If the answer above is affirmative in the first case, will I automatically then be obliged to follow the modular route?
- Then, I've always had the interest of being connected with an airline through a cadet programe right from the beginning. By holding a PPL and that kind of previous aviation experience, would that put me aside comparing with those with no experience whom the airline may take from scratch? Basically, would I be prevented from getting into those cadet programmes that may exist again in a few years time?
- Finally, and I know this has been widely discussed here but the panorama may have changed now towards the future. In a few years time, and hypothetically given the fact that I've chosen the modular route, would I be disregarded in multiple airlines comparing with those who got straight out of an integrated course (not taking into account each one's backgrounds, solely the way they formed themselves towards an ATPL).

I do think this may be nice and I could enjoy myself by following this path, however I have these doubts which I think are part of the process.

Many thanks for reading until the end, hoping to get some answers/views on this.

African_TrouserSnake

19th Nov 2020, 22:30

here are some quick pointers:

1) the most important fact to take to mind: a flightschool is, unlike a university, a commercial business. They can decide to take you in as they see fit. PPL or not, highschool diploma or not, whatever.

2) the modular/integrated route has been widely discussed, please review some threads. But by using some simple mental gymnastics; imagine the following courses:

Course A: 120,000 payed up front, uniform, flightbag and rayban aviators included.

Course B: 60,000 pay as you go, no uniform included, 50 more flighthours, choose the airplanes you wish to fly, freedom to manage your own planning.

Course A and B are of equal quality and yield equal chances of obtaining a job.

What course would you choose?
And what if I called Course A ‘integrated’ and course B ‘modular’ which course would you choose?

Modular being inferior and unemployable is a meme created by integrated flightschools. I can’t blame you as you’re still new, but as you progress in the world or flightschools you’ll start to understand the integrated scam.

and regarding the airlines, nobody cares, modular and integrated students have been consistently hired in the past few years (bar some exceptions). If anything, you as a person (soft and hard skills) will be the biggest factor in being hired, not the name of a school on your resume.

BTW Don’t tunnelvision on a flight deck career, especially trough an integrated course. Imagine spending 120k on some phony integrated course. You’ll be 20ish years old, jobless and uneducated. How do you reckon to pay off your debts? It is a miserable outlook for someone who is just starting his adult life! Follow upon your plans of going to university, complete your PPL and take another ponder about commercial flying when the outlooks are better. 5 years seem like an eternity when you’re 17, but it is nothing and at that age +5 years will not reduce your chances of being hired due to old age :O

parkfell

20th Nov 2020, 08:23

TTOscar

A really difficult time for aspiring aviators, and until vaccines are fully rolled out to ‘right the ship’, nothing much is going to change. That might take a while before the ripple effect cascades into aviation and increased demand for air travel with unfortunate increases in unemployment.

Go to University, obtain your quality degree, not necessarily aviation related, by which time you will be more mature, a definite quality required in aviation.
A T Snake provides sound advice.

Bealzebub

20th Nov 2020, 08:59

The answer two above is often trotted out, but it isn’t really accurate.

Firstly, it isn’t a case of which method is cheaper since the modular is nearly always going to be cheaper. It was designed to be just that, At the end of the day you get the same licence and if you want to hold it aloft and show everybody then go the cheapest route every single time! I will sell you my bit of paper if you like, it comes with 25,000 hours attached and you can have it for a tenner! As a bit of paper it is worthless. I have the same driving licence as Lewis Hamilton but God knows I can’t get Mercedes Petronas to give me the time of day.

Secondly, “Cadet” doesn’t usually mean “low hour commercial pilot” It is normally a formal apprenticeship programme into Airline flying offered by specific airlines with such a programme. Most of those programmes require you to attend a full time course of approved (and integrated) training at recognised training establishments. That is where the cost differential arises. These schools are not “scams” but they are usually very expensive and as always there are no guarantees of seamless employment at the end of them even outside of a global industry crisis.

The idea that a fresh CPL holder is going to be just what airlines are looking for, is a fallacy. Airlines are usually looking for the best experience for the least cost. If you can find someone who’s experience enables you to have them producing revenue for the company in the shortest amount of time for the least input cost, then you have likely made a good business decision. Low hour pilots are very intensive on training costs and where cadet programmes are utilised that is offset by both an assurance as to the cadets training provenance (you real want to be familiar with their training heritage,) and the bulk of the training cost risk being placed on the candidate. Even then, the majority of successful applicants are likely to be pilots with good and relevant experience on their CV’s. Don't be hoodwinked into believing that it is a level playing field, because it isn’t. A typical 250 hour CPL holder is not what makes Airline recruiters eyes light up. Again, be sure to understand what is meant by the term “cadet.”

Over the last 40 years I have worked for 2 airlines with very strong cadet programmes. Nearly all of the successful applicants came through the recognised integrated training models. In the last decade, a significant proportion were MPL “cadets” and that is by its very nature a full time integrated course with further integration between the airline and the training school.

Having said that, and as you already appreciate, the air transport industry has been turned on its head. There are a lot of casualties in all walks of life but specifically in this one. For the last 9 months economies are on life support with eye watering sums of fiduciary money being pumped into keeping those same economies afloat. Paying down these borrowings is going to take a great deal longer than 9 months. If, back in February, without a pandemic there had been a global contraction of 10% to this industry, it would have sent its own shockwaves into the marketplace. Now a rebound (when it eventually comes) is likely to still result in a marketplace significantly weaker than just a 10% downturn. The question everybody wants to know is how long, and nobody can do other than speculate on the answer to that.

Ten years ago, one of my own children completed a full time course of integrated training and they have worked (now as a Captain) ever since graduating. Like everything, time results in evolution and you have to approach the market cautiously and realistically. My advice (and that is all it can ever be) is to keep your powder dry. By all means do a PPL and better yourself wherever the opportunity arises, but do not make any high risk investments without a much clearer vision of where the future market better lies.

Good luck!

robby239

21st Nov 2020, 02:17

some people say that easyjet for example hires only integrated students from the big 3 ATO's. Is that the truth?

TTOscar

23rd Nov 2020, 21:00

African_TrouserSnake thank you very much for your inputs. Yes, I do agree that the years at university may sound like a pain now but in a few years time I'll look back and think it went by quite fast. Regarding the modular route, yes it has its own advantages too.

parkfell And one of the key issues I find is how we're going to be able to restore the public's confidence in flying and travelling. We shall see with time! Yes, I'm not not planning on undertaking something related with this industry. It'll be separate.

Bealzebub Thanks for the input. My doubt still lies on the following: these apprenticeship programmes you've mentioned. A few years back (they have been increasingly) you used to have airlines which sponsored you through a training route and then you would work for them. Aer Lingus, through their MPL, used to have that, as well as the Lufthansa Group with EFA at Bremen and BA's FPP a few years ago. My question is, if these type of programs ever return again in a few years, would they consider taking someone like me, holding a PPL licence?

Thank you all for your input. I shall be starting to look for schools in order to see what my options are to do the PPL.

African_TrouserSnake

14th Dec 2020, 15:50

Bealzebub

“Try to deflect the fact that you will get the same paper for triple the price by implying that a lesser cost directly correlates to a lessser quality and thus lesser piloting skills”
- The eternal flightschool salesman guide written by I.N. Tegrated

Let me offer you another perspective on your cheap implication by using the same rhetoric: You payed 10k for a drivers license while Hamilton payed 2k for his. Makes you look silly doesn’t it?

Modular being of lesser quality is a load of :mad:, you for one should know mr 25000. There are bad and good flightschools on both ends of the spectrum. Just imagine that a 50k modular fatpl still yields a profit to the flightschool, can’t even imagine what kind of profit 120k for an fatpl with lesser flighttime yields

Bealzebub

14th Dec 2020, 19:22

Thank you for considering your reply for nearly a month Mr Trouser snake. The problem is that the licence doesn’t matter (a point you seem to have missed?) It is what you do with it. For many people it is a part of the necessary acquisition on the road to a career with airlines. In itself it isn’t the final hurdle. Unfortunately it is often projected and of course perceived as just that. There have long been “fast track” and invariably those were full time integrated routes, into airline apprenticeships. There have also been alternative “self improver” routes into airline careers. They often required jumping on “stepping stones” leading to the 2500-3000 (tel:2500-3000) hours that were traditionally required for those routes. When JAA brought in the 200/250 hour hour CPL, everybody and their dog thought it was the end game. Usually it wasn’t and this degenerated into the “modular/integrated” pseudo-argument that is so pervasive in this and similar threads. For those schools that were supplying the airline apprenticeship programmes the airline companies had to be satisfied with the output that then became their input.

There is no doubt at all in my mind that there are a great many excellent “modular” schools offering excellent programmes. However the basic CPL simply isn’t the golden ticket so many would hope it is as they use this “modular/integrated” argument to justify a determined pathway. I don’t care what it yields to the flight school, it is what it yields to the candidate. To that end I have indeed put my money where my mouth is and although the risk cannot be understated (as I have said for many years now) the result didn’t make me “ look silly” at all, indeed, far from it!

hec7or

14th Dec 2020, 19:36

Bealzebub

Modular being of lesser quality is a load of :mad:, you for one should know mr 25000.

I have a similar number of hours to Bealzebub (if that's what 25000 means) and personally, I can't work out for the life of me why anyone would invest so much money and time in order to be an airline employee

African_TrouserSnake

15th Dec 2020, 12:40

Sorry I am not retired, so I do not have time to lurk on this board every hour of the day. I thank you for the history lesson, but fail to see its relevance tbh.

ofcourse these threads degenerate into modular vs integrated, which is due to the big boy flightschools argument that modular is a qualitative lesser form of training. Besides that flight schools (especially the integrated ones) offer the perspective of a 150h fatpl being the endgame, TR and an airline career is next. The argument is more than logic on a wannabe forum, as wannabes don’t have much info to go by...

Rhyslloyd212

7th Jan 2021, 14:52

Hi,
im currently 17 and turning 18 next year where I hope to start my pilot training. I have visited many academy’s before lockdown in person and attended a few events virtually. I am looking at integrated ATPL NOT modular please don’t turn this into a modular discussion I don’t mean to sound rude. But I would like to hear your opinions on L3 Harris, CAE, FTE, Skyborne, Leading edge, FTA and any other you would consider. Which academy’s have had best results and stuck to their promises etc. I understand at the current time there are little to no pilot jobs about however and some internal members of staff of airlines have said they are looking at recruiting cadets in April this year. And with the integrated training taking 18 months to complete there is plenty of time for improvement. Again I’d like to remind you I won’t be considering the modular route so in the politest way possible don’t turn this into an integrated vs modular thread there are plenary of those about.
thanks in advance.

The Flyer 1234

17th Jan 2021, 17:55

Hi All,

I was hoping for some advice on the best route with Modular Training, each time I try and sort a plan I get conflicting advice with the way Brexit has gone.

So I currently live in Northern Ireland and can train at the Ulster Flying Club for PPL, I currently have experience on microlights but have paused that license due tho the hours not counting towards ppl. I would be happy with a time frame of 3 to 4 years to complete training excluding type rating depending on my circumstances. I can travel around for different parts of the training so would appreciate any recommendations.

I appreciate any help or maybe advice on how other people have went with it

Many Thanks

transmitforDF

27th Mar 2021, 18:53

Hello!

My best advice is to stick with the modular route as time is very much on your side with the plan you have. Get your PPL done and find a method of hours building by looking for a "non-equity" shared group. What I mean by "non equity" is you buy in to becoming a member of a flying group that offers cheaper flying. It sounds daunting when I use the word "aircraft share", the way these groups work or at least the one I was involved in, would mean a security deposit and a monthly membership cost (for example £400 deposit which you get back when leaving the group and £25 per month for a wet rate in a cherokee for say £115 per hour with no attached maintenance costs!!!), far more cheaper than using a flying school to burn holes in the sky. Much more rewarding as you are more independent and learn the ropes with other group members or friends/colleagues whom you will come across. Alongside this is your ATPL theory, full time or distance, depending on your circmstances ie BristolGS. Then you'd probably want to go for your adavanced training ME/IR/CPL with one school, there's plenty who offer packages for modular's ie aeros, FTA. As for Brexit, well licence wise it appears jumping to a new state of licence issue (or SOLI) is irrelevant for now unless you have the right to live and work in Europe, however, don't set your sites always to the airlines. There are many GA outfits across the UK that you could start with first to add more strings to the bow, air ambluance, flight surveying, ILS calibration to name a few which will build experience, and add in a few interview anecdotes that would set you apart from the rest as well as those much needed hours. Then bide your time and who knows, perhaps common sense will prevail on UK licence recognition ..... This industry is hugely dynamic and opportunities come and go very quickly, one period is bad then its booming, very cyclical and often in waves but you have the time to catch the next crest when it arrises. Things may look bleak now but aviation always bounces back in some shape or form, just be ready for when it does.

Good luck!

H_Lemos

12th May 2021, 22:16

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here so a bit of info about me, 10 years as CC, last 5 in one of the ME3s until the pandemic hit. Had looked into pursuing the f/d career before but the cost was always a bit prohibitive for me plus that sort of investment without a "guaranteed" job at the end is a big decision to make.
Since end of 2020 been doing what I have to do, completely different industry, but just today I got a response from a flight school that I had forgotten I had applied to one of its cadet programs. The school in question is BAA flight school out of Vilnius for the LOT cadet program. If I pass the assessment, I am guaranteed a placement at LOT as an F/O.
I am skeptical by nature, prepare for the worst, hope for the best kind of person so is this too good to be true or is my paranoia kicking in?

1. Did some research about the school but got a lot of conflicting reviews and none from 2021. Any input would be appreciated
2. The industry took a huge beating with the pandemic, saw a lot of f/d friends get the axe, surely an airline looking to hire would like to hire a proven pilot with a few k hrs rather than train a new one. (skepticism kicking in)
3. Any general advice/tips appreciated

Supercub1

17th May 2021, 14:58

This is my first post so you’ll have to excuse me.

I won’t bore you with the usual I’ve always wanted to be a pilot ect. Just need some honest advice on training and the state of the industry. (I understand you don’t have a crystal ball but any thoughts appreciated)

I’ve been planing on starting an ATPL course next summer. I am currently undecided on the integrated v modular route. I am aware that many seem to prefer modular so I was wondering if I could get some up to date advice on UK Schools and especially the process of the modular route, it’s likely this would be full time. Also if I were to go integrated I would probably be looking at (CAE).
Do you guys have any pros and cons of each method?
(I have read some older posts but just wondering if there was more up to date info)

However in your opinions is it even worth starting training in a year? Should I be trying to space out my training? Should I try work some other aviation related jobs or just go straight into learning.

Thanks in advance for your contributions and sorry if this was a little messy/in the wrong place. Just really want to know the best course of action to take to achieve my dream.

Jammysticks

25th Jul 2021, 12:35

What do people think of this plan? I am 25 years old, have been working an office job full time since graduating from uni two years ago. Decent job security, pay is acceptable for this point in my life, low stress.

Always dreamed of becoming a pilot, got to final stage of interviews at a competitive cadetship scheme for my national airline (Ireland) in Dec '19, and (thankfully, as it turns out) wasn't selected. I can't bank on cadetships turning up again in the near- or medium-term, so I figure I'd better start training via the modular route and collect my licenses while the aviation industry in Europe gradually recovers.

My plan is to keep the day job, and pick up my licences on the side over a period of 3-4 years. Hopefully by this time, airlines here will be hiring again, and I will be in a position to apply, having ticked all the qualification boxes. What flaws do you see in this plan? Anything extra I should consider?

Some additional questions I have concern hour building. From what I gather, this is generally done after you've got your CPL.

1) What kind of hours are needed to be a competitive candidate in Europe? Can they be single engine or is multi-engine preferable?
2) What are the key considerations when building hours? Price? Location? Aircraft type?
3) Is it possible to build hours at a reasonable pace while working my current job? Or would it be preferable to set aside some savings and live somewhere cheap while building them? Or should I become a CFI or some other flying job and get paid to build hours?

I know the answers to these questions will vary person to person, but I'd like to get some rough guidance at least on which options I should exclude. Happy to give more details about my situation if that would help inform the answers.

Modular Halil

25th Jul 2021, 12:39

Flying is meant to be and is fun, take friends or family for a spin if they chip in for fuel you could always fly somewhere new and interesting for a low price.

Great plan, are you mentally prepared to endure it for 3-4 years and maybe longer if you dont get that gig right away?

Modular Halil

25th Jul 2021, 12:43

Supercub1

go intergrated of you have a jet job lined up at an airline, which you most probably dont.

Go modular space your training at your own pace to meet market demands. if there's no jobs in a year thats fine do your ATPL books as soon as jobs start coming then you can increase your training speed. For the love of money dont go intergrated right now.

Jammysticks

25th Jul 2021, 12:46

I like the idea of having family and friends chip in for a fun trip, thanks!

I fully expect not to get hired after 3-4 years. Have seen Eurocontrol estimate a return to 2019 traffic levels as late as 2029, and I'm ready for that possibility. I have wanted to fly planes since I was 5, so I don't mind waiting another few years for an airline job.

Thanks for your input :)

rudestuff

25th Jul 2021, 19:17

Jammysticks

Although you're building hours every time you fly, "hour building" in the traditional sense is generally done in order to meet the requirements (200) of the CPL. There is very little point building hours after you have the CPL, as most airlines aren't too interested in single engine piston hours, so to them a 500 hour CPL is no different to a 200 hour CPL. There are a few exceptions obviously.

Just because someone can fly a plane doesn't mean they'll be any good in a multi pilot jet. That's why airlines generally look for multi crew hours and specifically, time on type. When there aren't enough of these, or when called for by the business model, they will turn to cadet pilots. Quite often the ultimate discriminator isn't hours, but recency, meaning a 200 hour pilot who passed his/her test last month is deemed a safer bet than a 300 hour pilot who passed it 2 years ago.

Jammysticks

25th Jul 2021, 19:42

Thanks for this clear explanation. Am I to gather that the best approach for me, then, is to get my CPL, stay relatively current, and apply for a cadetship when one opens up? From what I understand, it is very difficult to get multi-crew hours or time-on-type without actually being employed by an airline in the first place. If I'm wrong about that, I'd love to know! From what you're saying, I may have a better chance by building multi-crew hours if that is somehow possible.

rudestuff

26th Jul 2021, 03:56

The best approach in the current economy is to get the following, in order:

Medical
PPL
Night rating
ATPL exams
CBIR
CPL single engine.

That will get you to within 6 weeks of the finish line (the finish line being MEIR and MCC/JOC) for minimal cost, while preserving your exam passes. Then you just wait it out.

Unless you're Bill Gates, you won't see a multi crew aircraft until you've got your first job, the name of the game is to get to that point.

Jammysticks

26th Jul 2021, 21:47

Thanks for this, this is exactly the info I needed :)

Are you saying that when you're applying to airlines, it doesn't matter whether the CPL was recent, but that the MEIR and MCC ought to have been recent?

rudestuff

27th Jul 2021, 05:56

More or less, the CPL test is a vfr navigation and handling exercise and it's arguably not that relevant to airline flying. The MEIR and MCC/JOC are a lot more relevant since they are all about hand flying on instruments, and flying as part of a crew.

As far as modular flying training goes, nowadays people tend to do the CPL/IR together almost like it's one module rather than two. If you do then separately, even if separated by several years - you haven't technically completed your flight training until you've finished the last module, and who says you have to mention individual dates for each course?
You can still legitimately say (on a CV): "EASA/CAA CPL/MEIR. Modular flight training completed at ABC school on date XYZ. MCC/JOC completed at ABC school on date XYZ" and more importantly, skills that actually matter (MEIR) will be recent.

Jammysticks

27th Jul 2021, 10:35

Brilliant, thank you!

futurepilot22

31st Jul 2021, 20:20

Hi all, I plan to start integrated training in early 2022, the structure and continuity appeals to me and as I have recently finished university and don't have a specific job or any commitments to hold along side a part time modular course I would rather just get stuck in and spend 18 months getting everything done and obtaining my license and take it from there. I am aware most people are recommending modular at the moment for obvious resons, but if I were to go for intergrated and graduate say late 2023 and there was still no airline jobs, what are the processes for keeping licenses valid? I would probably look to work at a simulator company or become a flight instructor until there are airline jobs, does this automatically keep licenses ticking over?
No need to tell me, wait 2 years, spend this time getting a degree (already done that), there wont be any jobs for another 5 years, integrated is a waste of money etc. Just want to know what the processes are for keeping licenses and ratings valid until I obtain my first airline job.
Many thanks in advance.

Contact Approach

1st Aug 2021, 05:31

Your Integrated course gives you exactly the same licence as a modular course and the requirements to keep it valid are the same:

Class 1 - renewal every year
IR - licence proficiency check every year this needs to be completed whilst the IR is still valid otherwise further training is required. 1.5 hours usually in a DA42 these days.

This is the bare minimum and It’s not cheap. This doesn’t include renewing your SEP which is extra and done every two years. This would be needed if you plan to do an FI course.

Like many have said: there’s no point in paying schools thousands more than you have to arrive at the same point. Integrated is a poor choice these days.

rudestuff

1st Aug 2021, 06:38

I just don't understand why someone would do an integrated course. For the same money I would go modular and walk away with a frozen ATPL for both Airplanes and Helicopters and FI for both...

Contact Approach

1st Aug 2021, 07:08

Integrated died a long time ago and it has been living off its past contracts for too long. The only way for it to survive and become competitive would be to drop its price, however by doing so would undermine its marketing BS. By going integrated you effectively pay double for fewer flying hours, less flexibility and more disappointment.

Stay well clear is the overwhelming advice.

futurepilot22

1st Aug 2021, 16:32

I don't know if I am looking at the wrong places but for modular to do everything including MCC and UPRT courses, its around £70,000 (aeros and tayside aviation are ones I am looking at). Then by the time I pay for accomodation for say 18 months it will come to roughly the same price as an integrated course that does include accomodation. So to me the price is not any different, it just comes with the advantage of slowing down your training if needed.

BaronVonBarnstormer

1st Aug 2021, 17:41

A very fair point, however you also need to consider the payment structure that you will be tied to with an integrated course vs the flexibility that modular training offers. I did do an integrated course and found myself in a position where I was stumping up huge sums of cash despite having to put up with delays in training etc etc. . If I was modular then I could pay for my training phase, and if there was issues then I could take my business elsewhere. Integrated schools have you bent over a barrel until you have your license. However when integrated courses work, they work well and they do suit a lot of people to immerse oneself in the huge amount of study that is required.

Now you'll probably get a torrent of "advice" on here telling you to start/not start training right now. Truthfully there will never be a perfect time to start, and only you and your family know the level of risk you are willing to take on. BUT for heaven's sake protect yourself as much as possible financially, and have a career to fall back on should it not work out.

Alex Whittingham

1st Aug 2021, 19:43

Also you'll find that the prices of the two 'structured modular' courses you quoted are on the high side - once again ATOs squeezing prices up where they think they can get away with it. Modular can often be completed for £20K less than that, sometimes even lower.

rudestuff

2nd Aug 2021, 08:18

The trick to going modular and saving money is to study while you're working. Ideally you would make use of your holiday allowance and get a PPL in 4 weeks, or failing that, two 2 week blocks. That's not as hard as you think if you do it somewhere sunny, and turn up with all the exams passed and nothing to do but fly. You could even take 10 hours over weekends to learn the basics, then do an accelerated course full time.

Once you've got your PPL and night rating, start the ATPL exams. Take your time and study no more than 4 subjects at a time, take the exams then move on. 4/4/3/3 still gives you plenty of options for resits. While you're doing that, get a cheap preferably non-equity share in a 150 or PA38 - something that you can fly for less than £100 an hour. Plan to fly around 50 hours making sure you use the time wisely - learning the area for your CPL and getting plenty of cross country time. You should be half way towards CPL, and you've spent less than £18,000

Once you've passed your final ATPL exam the clock is ticking. You've got 36 months to finish up. Start with a CBIR which should cost around £6-8000. An IRR/IMC costs £2500-3000, so essentially to get an IR via the CBIR route you'll need do that twice with an extra 10-20 hours solo practice. So now you've got a PPL/Night/SEIR 150 hours and you've spent £26,000

With 50 hours left to go, I would assess the industry and see if it's worth getting a multi rating yet. Assuming it's not, I would just hour build for another 35 hours (£3500) and do a 15 hour CPL course (£3500) Total spend? £35,000 once you've paid CAA fees. Now you can get an FI rating if you want to teach (£8000) or for the same money you can get your MEP and MEIR *when the time comes.

Of course, if you really want to become a pilot cheaply, have a read of part 61.129 then get yourself a training visa for the US. You can do all of the above for about £20k and come home with over 1000 hours.

j34allen

11th Aug 2021, 08:43

Hi all,

I'm putting together a plan to begin the journey to gain my frozen ATPL and having rad many comments I believe a structured modular route would be more beneficial than going integrated, not solely from a financial perspective but also from a licensing and speed perspective as i've heard horror stories of huge delays waiting to complete flying hours, and issues with licensing being held up/exams lost etc.

My question is, as a British citizen (sadly) and since Brexit would anyone be able to recommend/ suggest a smart route for gaining my PPL, IR/NR and hour building abroad, and any issues that I might encounter with licensing conversions back to UK. I'm wanting to gain an EASA license, not CAA, but I know some licensing states can be tricky.

I'm considering either USA, Spain or Greece due to predictable weather and speed gaining flying hours. I'd also look to complete my ATPL theory at a similar time, then I have a school in mind to complete the final licenses (CPL, APS-MCC etc) as a package deal.

Lots of schools i've spoken with seem to offer modular routes but as they also offer integrated whenever I speak with them they try and put me off straight away and lead me on to the modular route. I'm worried if I persist with them they'll purposefully give me second hand training out of spite. Maybe just being a bit sceptical?

Thanks in advance - hugely appreciate any advice you can give me.

rudestuff

11th Aug 2021, 10:06

Do you even know why you want an EASA licence?

Wanting both I can understand, but wanting EASA only doesn't make much sense, unless you have dual nationality?

If you want to waste a lot of money, go integrated.

If you want to work at your own pace and hold down a job, go modular

If you want to get the most hours and spend the least money - go to the US for 2 years.

j34allen

11th Aug 2021, 17:36

Thanks Rudestuff, appreciate the response.

So I might be slightly naive but going by the advice i'v been given my UK as well as EU based ATO's I was under the impression an EASA license would be superior and is accepted more widely than the CAA since Brexit? I didn't think a visa would be the most important thing to consider as I assume if a job offer is made by a foreign based company then you can apply for a working visa in that country and have sponsorship? I.e. if I was to apply for work with Ryanair, and I was offered a job flying say based in Palma, the visa would be a secondary consideration as i'm not necessarily moving to a location before applying for a positiion? If i've misunderstood this then clearly I need to read up further on my options.

Most of the EU based ATO's I speak with train a mix of cadets with may from the UK and still following an EASA license route purely as training is cheaper, faster and accessible.

I'd be keen to learn more about what my options are and what i've perhaps misinterpreted if that's the case?