Insurance for Cessna 172SP

[miroc]

I will purchase an used Cessna 172SP in near future, trying to find suitable insurance now. What can I consider as "normal" insurance conditions? In the first offer are the liability limits 4.000.000 EUR against third subjects (TPL), 350.000 EUR/passenger (PLL), luggage 1250 EUR/passenger.

I find the limits pretty high, for 4mil EUR there could be a lot of damage. What should I hit with a C172 to generate such a damage? :} More reasonable would be IMHO something in the 1-2mil region. Do we have in Europe a regulation about minimal liability? Have I missed something?

The hull insurance premium is 2,44% of agreed value. Is it on par with the premiums you normally pay?

Miroc

[ab33t]

I have just had a look at our policy document and that looks pretty similar to what you have quoted here.

[jxc]

I am sure there are lots of things that you could damage worth more than 4million EUR

[Pilot DAR]

I find 4 million Euro to be very high. My Cessna 150 has been insured for 1M$ for more than 20 years, with the exception of a few year when I used to regularly fly into Bombardier's facility and they insisted on 3M$. They seemed to think I might hit one of their parked jets! They paid the premium, so I did not care.

If you pay all of that insurance, you're betting that you're going to need it. If you have less, that's probably what you'll get sued for, and they'll not bother going for any more, unless you're personally very rich. If you were to actually do 4M Euro damage with your 172, would you be alive to worry about the outcome anyway?

I'd stick with the 1M, unless there are very unususal circumstances, which leave you financially exposed - then fly carefully!

Pilot DAR

[S-Works]

Pilot DAR, unfortunately European law requires a minimum level of cover that we have no say in. This is calculated in a unit known as an SDR and converted at the time of claim to the local currency.

[SpeedbirdXK8]

Bose X is correct. It is linked to the MTOW and the amount can change due to currency exchange rates so build in a contingency (most good insurance brokers will do so anyway). Shop around for a quote.:ok:

[Pilot DAR]

Canada also requires a minimum insurance, which is 1M$ for light aircraft.

Interestingly, one "liability", which is sometimes not covered, or covered in a separate clause, is that of removing your crashed aircraft from an otherwise undamaged landscape. You can't just leave it, it's simply littering! The cost to hire a helicopter to fetch your wreck from a hundred miles from the nearest road, can amount to more than the value of the aircraft!

Pilot DAR

[BackPacker]

a hundred miles from the nearest road

I doubt whether there's such place in Western Europe.:confused:

[Halfbaked_Boy]

What should I hit with a C172 to generate such a damage?

Oooh I dunno about that, if you end up going down in IMC over Paris, I bet a 172 could make a nice hole in the Louvre!

Hell, I shudder at the thought of the words 'insurance' and 'payout' should you take out the Mona Lisa or Michelangelo... and that's not to mention the Shepherds of Arcadia!

:eek:

[miroc]

unfortunately European law requires a minimum level of cover that we have no say in. This is calculated in a unit known as an SDR and converted at the time of claim to the local currency. I did some research and found the EC Regulation 785/2004:

Third Party Legal Liability
Category MTOM (kg) Limits of indemnity
1 < 500 SDR 750.000
2 < 1.000 SDR 1.500.000
3 < 2.700 SDR 3.000.000
.....

SDR 250.000 per passenger
Member states may adopt 100.000 SDR for noncomercial operators and MTOM<2700kg
---
If the SDR is about 1 EUR, the limits can be 3 mil. EUR and 100.000 EUR (or 250.000 if we did not adopt the lower limit).

I found opinions too, that different limits per passenger will affect crossborder flights. UK is on 100.000 SDR. Did somebody of you experience problems with that?

Normally if one is catched on foreign airport in a country requiring 250.000, with an insurance certificate for 100.000 he would not be allowed to take off.:uhoh:

Miroc

[JimA_UK]

UK folk should have a look at the CAA www. Choose any registered aircraft by its registration on the database G-INFO and you can click to determine what is considered to be the appropriate insurance cover.

Hope this helps.:ok:

[TripleZulu]

for a 172SP from 2008 I pay $4000 a year... all included and I'm allowe to let between 5 and 8 of my friends fly the aircraft should I want that (which I don't) as long as I'm emailing the name of the pilot to the insurance company before they fly.

triplezulu

[englishal]

We pay an annual rate of 2% of declared value plus £1,300 for a Limit of Liability of £3,750,000 increasing to GBP 7,500,000 in respect of Crown Indemnity.

[TripleZulu]

Hi again,

2% sounds expensiv - I have set the value of my 172SP w/DME+TAS600 to $290000. Including liability the price is $4000 a year. In case of a damage or accident my own premium is $900. With the current exchange rate this deal has been pretty good.

triplezulu

[miroc]

2% sounds expensiv - I have set the value of my 172SP w/DME+TAS600 to $290000. Including liability the price is $4000 a year. In case of a damage or accident my own premium is $900. With the current exchange rate this deal has been pretty good.

My offer is ca. 3800 EUR. The set value roughly less than a half of yours.

You are quoting in USD. Does it mean the insurance company is an american one insuring in EU, or you have N-reg?

Miroc

[englishal]

2% sounds expensiv
Yea, sorry, comparing apples and Oranges. Our insurance is for a turbocharged, complex retract.

For the other aeroplane which is a 160HP Rallye (fixed gear, fixed pitch prop), we pay £1400 PA and it includes the £7.5 mill crown indemnity.

[TripleZulu]

The reason for the $-thing are due to the fact that most a/c are being sold and bought in dollars. So if my a/c is to run off the rwy, being in bad spot during a hail storm or something third then I can buy a new a/c for the dollars I get. BUT if I got the money in euro or my own local currency I might loose due to the exchange rate...

So I actually pay $3000 for insurance of the aircraft and $1150 in my local currency for the liability-thing. All in all $4000.

The first year was 20% more expensiv but after one year you get a discount.

triplezulu