SAR Heli down in Almeria

[borjaracing]

Hating to see how the worst predictions come true, this is going to be a long year :sad::sad:

The Helimer SAR AW139 went down 4 nm off the coast of Almeria(Spain). They were doing some practical maneouvers when ATC lost contact. Half of the helis of the company have gone searching for them, only one has been rescued so far, with serious injuries. The other 3 members are still missing. Only bits and red flares were found at the wreck site.

Initial coverage of the news here: (in Spanish)

Tres desaparecidos al caer un helicóptero de Salvamento Marítimo al mar en Almería - RTVE.es (http://www.rtve.es/noticias/20100121/tres-desaparecidos-caer-helicoptero-mar-almeria/313598.shtml)

Tomorrow morning is going to be a sad day at work. My best wishes to the fellow colleagues missing, there is still Hope.

[S76Heavy]

Bl**dy Hell...

Always a problem, who comes to the rescue if the rescuers get caught out?

Hoping for a lucky outcome, but fearing the worst :(

[Ned-Air2Air]

Calling out Aser - hope you answer this.

Member here Aser flies AW139s for that operation.

Ned

[maxtork]

Ned,

Hopefully no news is good news in this case. I hope he is out flying in search of coworkers.

fingers crossed

Max

[Ned-Air2Air]

Left some messages with friends who fly for Inaer in italy and spain and will try and find out if Aser was involved.

Ned

[oldhuey]

Ned I've just written some sms to people who worked in Spain. Here is 2 a.m., not so easy to get news from collegues but as soon as I get something I'll write to you via FB.
'night and I hope Martinez Will answere in the meantime.
Alex

[Ned-Air2Air]

Alex,

Thanks and have sent sms to friend Antonio Martinez who is commercial director for Inaer so hopefully we will hear somethng from him.

Keeping fingers crossed for Aser.

Ned

[VeeAny]

Fingers crossed for all of them including Aser.

[Ned-Air2Air]

Just got a message from Asers girlfriend saying he is alive and well.

He is out flying searching for his fellow crews. Thoughts are with all
The crews and inaer staff at Almeria.

I hope you find your missing colleagues.

Ned

[eivissa]

Thanks for the information about Aser Ned.

Spanish news say the crash happened around 5nm off the coast. I hope this means higher chances for the other three who are still missing.

Suerte a todos!

Edit: news update mentioning four helicopters and three vessels participating in the search.

Anyone able to tell yet if it really was Helimer 205 (EC-KJT)?

[eivissa]

This source now sais the crashed helicopter is Helimer 207 (EC-HIM), which is an AS365N2. Could be true since it is based at Almeria...

Tres desaparecidos al caer al mar un helicóptero en Almería - COPE (http://www.cope.es/sociedad/22-01-10--tres-desaparecidos-al-caer-al-mar-un-helicoptero-almeria-128335-1)

[borjaracing]

Once again, especulators making up data. (Wrong call-sign Helimer105, Wrong picture of a S61). The usual suspects at work....

Confirmed is the AW139 of Almeria.

Pilot: Jose Luis López
Co-Pilot: Kevin Holmes aka "the kiwi", a hell of a nice guy :{
Winch operator: Alberto Elvira

Rescued rescuer: Iñigo Vallejo. He's at the hospital, minor injuries, recovering from a mild hypothermia will be walking home tomorrow.

At sunrise divers went searching for them, but we fear the worst. :uhoh:

They were 4 miles off the runway, established on the ILS Approach to LEAM, returning from the training flight.

Our thoughts go with wives and family.

Stay safe

B

[Perrito Piloto]

Wrong info, borjaracing,

Hoist Operator Alberto Elvira is in the hospital.
Iñigo is missing.

[eivissa]

Thanks for clarifying Borja.

The following is not intended to start any rumours, just for information:

METAR LEAM 212100Z 02005KT 9999 FEW015 11/08 Q1023=
METAR LEAM 212030Z 03004KT 9999 FEW015 12/09 Q1023=
METAR LEAM 212000Z 04004KT 9999 FEW015 12/09 Q1023=
METAR LEAM 211930Z 06004KT 9999 FEW020 12/09 Q1023=
METAR LEAM 211900Z 06004KT 9999 FEW015 SCT025 12/09 Q1023=

ILS approach rwy26:
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8818/leamils26overlay800x600.jpg

[borjaracing]

PP

I'm sorry, you're right. Alberto is the one at the hospital. Still nobody else founded :(

[WOP]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3458/3727949914_0f2924072d_b.jpg
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3458/3727949914_0f2924072d_b.jpg)

[Pink Panther]

This is bad, fingers crossed. My thoughts are with those directly involved.

[eyesparky]

My heart goes out to everyone involved, it is a truly painful and difficult time. This thread has provided the most information I have been able to uncover all day but hitting the refresh button here and on countless news sites a thousand times is driving me a tad insane. If anyone has any direct information concerning the ongoing search I would greatly appreciate a PM or email as I am aware some things are best left off an open forum. My brother is the missing co-pilot referred to above as "the kiwi" and known by many as Sam. Thanks.

[eivissa]

eyesparky,

I am not sure how your Spanish is, but recently the news reported that the wreckage is estimated to be around 100m deep in the sea and they will start to look for it with a remote controlled submarine from tomorrow.

We all hope the best for your brother and the rest of the crew.

[eyesparky]

Thanks eivissa, I had seen a translation of that on a news site. I probably shouldn't have posted here but am just frustrated at not being able to do anything. Thanks again.

[S76Heavy]

Eyesparky,

be assured that they are out in full force searching.
The Spanish tv was showing a lot about the search today.

I can only imagine what waiting for news must be like.

[eivissa]

The maritime rescue service has issued a complain, because ATC's initial distress call was 112 (911). According to them, this meant an important delay in reaction time. I think they have a point there...

The wreckage has been located in 94m deep waters and the radio controlled sub was expected to arrive at 1000UTC.

Edit: It was only a matter of time, but Spanish news are already comparing this crash to the one of a S61 in 2006 ( http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/233772-s61-crash-canary-islands.html ).

[borjaracing]

eivissa,

As annoying as it is to recognize it, from all the so called "reporters", spaniards are second to none, when it comes to making stuff up and trying to sell papers away :ugh::ugh:.

Another thing I had to stand hearing is that they ran out of fuel, just because they told ATC that they were coming back for refuelling.... :yuk: :yuk:

At least, Ppruners have the understanding and comprehension enough to tell the rubbish out of the publishings.

P.S. Could you point which media did you hear that from?

Thanks

B

[eivissa]

Just to sum up some of them...

Un superviviente sin recuerdos · ELPAÍS.com (http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/superviviente/recuerdos/elpepuesp/20100123elpepinac_17/Tes)

La esperanza de hallar vivas a las víctimas del helicóptero se desvanece · ELPAÍS.com (http://www.elpais.com/articulo/andalucia/esperanza/hallar/vivas/victimas/helicoptero/desvanece/elpepuespand/20100123elpand_7/Tes)

Expertos en socorro critican la actuación de emergencia en accidente Almería. larioja.com (http://www.larioja.com/agencias/20100123/mas-actualidad/espana/expertos-socorro-critican-actuacion-emergencia_201001231033.html)

This one surely did all the research out of pprune:
AW139 Crashes In Almeria During SAR Training | VTOLBLOG (http://vtolblog.com/?p=1753)

Edit: can anyone explain why Helimer 207 is also referring to EC-HIM? Is that one for backup?

[eivissa]

El dispositivo de búsqueda halla a 85 metros de profundidad restos que podrían ser del 'Helimer 207'. europapress.es (http://www.europapress.es/andalucia/noticia-sucesos-dispositivo-busqueda-halla-85-metros-profundidad-restos-podrian-ser-helimer-207-20100123135728.html)

A military vessel, originally designed for mine-searching, reports to have found the remains of Helimer 207 at 85m below the water surface. Currently they are preparing to send down the radio controlled sub.

AgustaWestland technicians are on scene to help with the tracing of the black box.

[choppersky]

Maybe no relation but in August at Doha (Quatar):
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/unusual-attitude/AW139%20tailboom.jpg

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/386491-aw139-lost-tail-taxying-doh.html

[Droopy]

Maybe no relation

Exactly. So let's be patient, eh?

[helimutt]

Choppersky, I have to admit as soon as I saw it was a 139 I did think the same thing, but lets hope it wasn't the same problem. I'm fairly sure that would have a massive knock on effect to all 139's worldwide.
Droopy, this is a RUMOUR network, and we all have our own take on this sort of thing.





Condolences to those affected and RIP to those lost souls.

[infosource]

Helicopter wreckage located off the coast of Almería (http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_24818.shtml)

Helicopter wreckage located off the coast of Almería

By h.b. - Jan 23, 2010 - 6:44 PM
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/spain/uploads/3/helicopterfamily.jpg

Anxious family members of the missing men - EFE
Three men are believed to have died when the rescue helicopter went down on Thursday

A navy ship, using its sonar, has located what is thought to be the wreckage of the rescue helicopter which crashed five miles off the coast of Almería on Thursday.

The remains of the Helimer 207 are lying at a depth of 85 metres. It came down for reasons which remain a mystery when returning from routine manoeuvres.
Technicians from the company AgustaWestland, the makers of the craft, have travelled to the zone and say they have located the signal from the copter’s black box.

Only one of the four men on board has been rescued and is now in hospital in a serious condition. The three men who are lost have been named as the Captain, José Luis López Alcalá from Granada, the copilot, Kevin Holmes, from New Zealand and resident of Granada and Iñigo Vallejo García, from Sevilla.


Rescue helicopter crashes off Almeria coast | Spanish News (http://www.spanishnews.es/20100122-rescue-helicopter-crashes-off-almeria-coast/id=2082/)

Three people were missing and one found in a serious condition as a helicopter which had gone to carry out some flight maneuvers crashed into the sea five nautical miles off the coast of Almeria. According to reports by emergency services, there was a phone alert received by them from the control tower at the Almeria airport at around 8:30 PM yesterday, informing them about the incident.
Flares were seen from the spot where the chopper “Helimer” is said to have crashed after losing connectivity with the radar and radio control. Four people were on board and three of them are missing. The one who has been rescued is reported to be in a serious condition.
The four are reported to have gone for the purpose of carrying out flight maneuvers with a ship named ‘Nevola’. Search for the people missing is still on and the reason for the mishap is yet to be established.
Rescue helicopter plunges into sea in Almería (http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/17565/rescue-helicopter-plunges-into-sea-in-almeria)

Rescue helicopter plunges into sea in Almería
By: thinkSPAIN , Friday, January 22, 2010

http://www.thinkspain.com/news/new-ReduceImgWidth.asp?foto=foto17565.jpg&width=250THREE people have disappeared after a coastguard helicopter crash-landed into the sea opposite Almería airport, emergency services reveal.
They were called by staff at the air control tower at 20.30hrs last night after seeing flares about five miles out to sea and having lost control of the helicopter by radio and on screen.
The craft, Helimer, was transporting four people, one of whom was rescued and taken to hospital in a serious condition.
Rescuers brought the victim in to shore, as far as the jetty where a Guardia Civil lifeboat was moored.
The remaining three crew-members have not been seen since the helicopter plunged into the Mediterranean for reasons that have not yet been ascertained.


iafrica.com | news | world news Rescue helicopter crashes (http://news.iafrica.com/worldnews/2179949.htm)

Rescue helicopter crashes

Article By:
Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:08
Three people were missing after a maritime rescue helicopter crashed into the sea off southern Spain late on Thursday, emergency services said. A fourth person aboard the aircraft was rescued after the accident off the port of Almeria, and was hospitalised suffering from hypothermia. Three boats and four helicopters of the rescue service were scouring the seas late into the night for the three missing persons. The cause of the accident was not immediately clear.

[tottigol]

Gentlemen, from well informed sources there was nothing wrong with the aircraft.
I'll keep it at that.
Aser may be able to confirm this.

Also I am confident that this is going to reinforce AW position with regards to the floats armed/non armed argument...even though at that speed...:(

[malabo]

Agusta doesn't need to "reinforce its position". They state their position quite clearly in their RFM. What this incident does is reinforce my position that pilots should follow the RFM with regards to arming the floats, instead of second-guessing the design and certification process. I appreciate Agusta going the extra mile with their float design and switch logic to allow for an extra fail-safe should a CFIT incident occur. Looking forward to other manufacturers following suit.

[Lunar]

Couldn't agree more, people and companies "deciding" that float should be armed below certain speeds only and not on coasting out is ludicrous, RFM clearly states AW position.

It was only a matter of time before someone posted the picture of GHC, another armchair accident investigator.

Lunar

[tottigol]

Malabo and Lunar, I agree with ya'll and AW on that subject.
Operators changing checklists every fortnight because the training boss of the day doesn't like to wait for the CAS message panel check or because he flew a 412 for all his life, ought to take advice.

Back to the accident and praying for the souls of the missing.:(:sad:

[eivissa]

The radio controlled sub has found the three missing crew members. I think no further comment needed.

My thoughts are with the families and those directly involved.

[eivissa]

Spanish article about helicopter accidents in Spain during the last twenty years:

Tecnología - El siniestro de Almería, el más grave que ha sufrido Salvamento Marítimo - ADN.es (http://www.adn.es/tecnologia/20100124/NWS-0593-Salvamento-Maritimo-Almeria-siniestro-sufrido.html)

[iuk1963]

I find your post of the photo quiet pathetic :=. Ok this is a rumors network but there are thousands of reasons to be investigated. Show some respect to the victims and thier relatives and control your ego in posting anything!

[blakmax]

As anyone knows who has read the thread on the AW139 failure at DOH, I have a very active interest in this failure. But please, chppersky let us at least wait until we at least have photos of the wreckage before we jump to conclusions. Photos are a more important source of information than speculation at this stage.

I express my condolences, especially to "eyesparky". There is a special bond that put the NZ in ANZAC. Best wishes and if ever we meet, you can have a Speights or ten on me for your brother and I'll pay for the taxi home.

Regards

blakmax

[makrider]

I am absolutely convinced that in tragedy like this your speculations.. (i.e. Choppersky) is absolutely stupid, unnecessary, absurd and insensitive...

[squib66]

makrider - you are on the ball with that.

I'm troubled by blakmak's Freudian slip there about jumping to conclusions:


let us at least wait until we at least have photos of the wreckage before we jump to conclusions


Speculation is speculation.

[9Aplus]

Speculations are worse case with almost no real evidence from site, but
hypothetical approach can be in a way:

- out of fuel case, still auto rotation possible, have been in 139 during one
auto rotation test, only stronger thump, nothing else.
- flotations did not sustain impact, must be strong impact for sure, or auto
logic is not working like expected. Must mention here Copterline S76 case,
replacement helicopters was 2 AW139 units, out of business now tnx to hard crisis
in Helsinki/Tallin area, one year ago.
- CFIT case? We have seen one recently, tail blown away too, tnx to the impact
or maybe not. Any one have ever seen that investigation report? Not likely...

Therefore let's hope that in this case we can expect fair and public report for the
mutual good of all... We all know well, that safety procedures for the last 100 years
are mostly written by blood of our fellows, and we are still in business and around
looking up there, for our own piece of sky...

[eivissa]

The crew of Helimer 207 has been honoured with the "medal of civil protection" in acknowledgement of risking their lives to safe others.

The body of captain José Luis López Alcalá has been recovered. His funeral will take place tomorrow. Meanwhile the vessel "Clara Campoamor" is still working on recovering the other two crew members.
This progress is taking time, because the submarine is only allowed to dive twice a day and only for a maximum of 15 minutes (if I have understood the article correctly).

http://www.cope.es/file_upload/imagen/283x167/1264446016422291536.gif

[eivissa]

YouTube - Imágenes del Helimer 207 obtenidas por el ROV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvAoh_F_YKE)

DvAoh_F_YKE

[Furia]

You can see an underwater video of the wreackage Rescatado el cadáver del piloto del helicóptero que cayó al mar en Almería | Andalucía | elmundo.es (http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2010/01/25/andalucia/1264405361.html)

Please do not make wild especulations on this.

We hope we will know some solid facts soon.

Tomorrow will take place funeral for one of our colleagues, I hope the bodies of the other two can be recovered soon.

[island eagles]

From the video footages, it looks like the tail rotor is intact...could it be that it was not turning on impact. Just a view...

[vaibronco]

Does anybody know the link to the spanish "NTSB"?

[eivissa]

Homepage of the Spanish "NTSB":
CIAIAC - Collegiate Body - Ministerio de Fomento (http://www.fomento.es/MFOM/LANG_EN/DIRECCIONES_GENERALES/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/introduccion.htm)

[VeeAny]

Vaibronco

The english version is CIAIAC - Collegiate Body - Ministerio de Fomento (http://www.fomento.es/MFOM/LANG_EN/DIRECCIONES_GENERALES/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/introduccion.htm)

I think the Spanish version of the site has a lot more on it, but I haven't looked for some months.

GS

[Perrito Piloto]

Human Error??...maybe...it's too soon for that conclusions.

The fact is that SASEMAR pilots average flight time is less than 100 hours per year (including missions)
Really poor training.
NO CRM course for crews.
NO EGRESS training.

[eivissa]

Perrito Piloto,

even though (as far as I know) your figures are correct, I wouldnt jump to any conclusions for now. I understand you are just trying to say what could have happened, but one crew member and the whole wreckage is still deep down in the water, so lets be patient.

By the way, this article quotes a member of civil protection saying "it cant be human error, because the crew consisted of two pilots." :ugh:

Tecnología - Enterrado el comandante del helicóptero 'Helimer 207' siniestrado en Almería - ADN.es (http://www.adn.es/tecnologia/20100126/NWS-0491-Enterrado-Helimer-Almeria-siniestrado-helicoptero.html)

[VEMD]

Also INAER standards are very low....

[Lunar]

It is important that it is not taken the wrong way, I am sure the crew were both conscientious and professional but I totally agree that Inaer does not have the proper training in place for crews, proper courses or enough flying hours per year.

I won't speculate on the cause of the accident, however, I am not sure that any amount of training would have helped this unfortunate crew.

Lunar

[Ned-Air2Air]

Got a message last night from a contact there that the body of Kevin Holmes was recovered yesterday. At least the families can have some closure.

Ned

[eivissa]

Captain José Luis López Alcalás funeral took place today. Iñigo Vallejo is still down there, lets hope they can recover his body tomorrow.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/epa/media/ALeqM5gYX0GWpdt8-HQeF2fhX42_lXcpfg?size=l

[tottigol]

Respects.:(

[Aser]

Hi,
Now that I'm back at home after some days in Almeria , I'd like to really thank you all that worried about me and my friends.


I hope you all understand I'm not going to make any kind of comment...

Best regards and fly safe.
Aser

[Hughmac]

Sorry to butt in. Am living here, not far from Sam's village of adoption, Lenteji, Granada, Spain. His body was cremated in Almuñécar. The newspaper today reported that recovery efforts to retrieve the last body have been called of because of adverse weather. I cannot give you any technical data, I'm afraid, which is what this forum is obviously about, but I do speak Spanish, having lived here for 30 years, so if anybody has a reasonably short piece of Spanish text that they don't understand, I will translate it.

Sam, as he was known locally, was widely respected in this small village, with just over 500 inhabitants.

Cheers
Hughmac

[Ned-Air2Air]

One of the newspaper reports I have read says it ran out of fuel. Surely that wouldnt be the case. Doesnt the AW139 have all sorts of warning systems if the fuel is getting low. ??

Ned

[S76Heavy]

They were returning to base after training. They would probably have wanted fuel to prepare the aircraft for a possible mission after training, to minimise response time in case of a callout. Standard practice methinks.
It does not mean they were running their tanks dry.

There are more examples of less than accurate media reporting all over this forum..:rolleyes: makes you wonder what else they make up in the newspapers.

[eivissa]

The low fuel scenario will refer to what borja said earlier. They might have advised ATC about their further intentions after landing.
Something like "after landing request taxi to refuelling station" is sugar for a newspaper journalist.

Nevertheless, this is what the flight and training manual states about low fuel warning systems in the AW139:

The fuel quantity gauging system is composed of four
capacity probes, a fuel computer unit and a fuel low level
sensor for each tank.
When the fuel quantity falls below the low level sensor
the caution 1 or 2 FUEL LOW is provided to the MFD.

CAS CAUTION MESSAGE:

"FUEL LOW" - On affected tank fuel
contents below 92kg

- Check fuel contents and
XFEED if required
- Land as soon as practicable
(within 20 minutes)

When cross feeding, the tank with pump off, NOT supplying the
engines, will have a level of unusable fuel of 228kg. This unusable
fuel level value will change to grey to indicate the tank can
no longer supply fuel.

UNUSABLE FUEL
In coordinated (ball centered) flight ............................... 0kg indicated/
............................................................ ...(8 kg/10 litres per tank actual)

[eivissa]

Helimer 207 flight following 1800 - 2030 local:

YouTube - Helimer 207 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Njy6rS6xI)

_6Njy6rS6xI

Helimer 207 last signal showing a heading of 081 with around 100KIAS:
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/9632/helimer207lastposition.jpg

Location of the Wreckage in relation to LEAM and ILS approach 26:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3972/wreckagepositionils26.jpg

[Spanish Waltzer]

Eivissa,

An interesting flight following clip you posted there from Youtube.

What immediately strikes me is that the surface contact/boat that they were obviously working with until 2014 (according to the clock bottom right) can't have been very far away when the helo contact disappears (approx 2016) yet continues to head away from the scene until clip finishes at 2020. I would have thought they might have seen /heard something and come to investigate but maybe weather/engine noise/heading precluded that....or maybe they did after 2020. Just an observation.

[eivissa]

I've made another video clip. This one shows what happened after the crash.

The helicopter which appears at 2259 came from Valencia (only judging by its flightpath). It therefore should be Helimer 205 (EC-KJT).

YouTube - Helimer 207 SAR ops (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EEO0kH9eqs)

3EEO0kH9eqs

This is the search profile of the SAR helicopter (Helimer 205?) after two hours of search. The picture is taken at 0101 when the helicopter is about to land at LEAM.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7972/eckjtsarprofile0101.jpg

[Furia]

This one was the Helimer 203 EC-KLV based on Valencia.

[Furia]

Just to inform you that the body of Iñigo, the rescue swimer has been recovered this afternoon by Salvamento Maritimo.
All the crew is recovered.

Rest in peace

[Hummingfrog]

As an Ex SAR pilot my deep condolences to the families of the lost AW139 SAR crew.

The pic in post 41 of the undamaged tail rotor blade does fill me with concern and I hope the interim accident report is published soon.

HF

[Maverick Laddie]

Hummingfrog :

I also have concerns over that footage mine are more along the lines of I can't see anything attached to that tail boom. ( can anyone else )
Personally till the report comes out if I were you guys, Just don't look during a preflight walk around touch and tap any doub't point it out.

Mav

[Helispanner]

I would start to worry if the tail pylon and part of the tail boom was found some distance away from the main wreckage. It looks like the tail boom has fractured near the joint at stn 11020, which is aft of the problem areas.

A sad day for all the SAR AW139 operators

[island eagles]

AW has to give a preliminary report ASAP. Delays will result in speculation and unfounded fears. There is an initial report thereafter dead silence. Good or bad ..let us know. So, if anyone from AW is reading this ...we need your proactive customer support.:*

[ODEN]

Helimer 207 flight following 1800 - 2030 local:


so this shows they where in the air 2h 30 min + departure time...

[makrider]

I can't see anything attached to that tail boom

Are you really sure... ???
Try with new glasses... :ok:

The only strange thing is that after a week CIAIAC has not issued a factual/preliminary report.

[JagRigger]

As I understand, the company has more than one AW139.

They have a survivor from the accident.

Have they grounded the remaining aircraft ?

[Maverick Laddie]

Makrider :
Obviously you see more than I do. Can you recommend a good opticians.:ok:
Helispanner
In full agreement it "seems" to have fractured aft of the known problem area.

Mav

[eivissa]

The search and recovery of the black box starts today. We might have some answers soon.

[Flyting]

Is there any reason why a dive crew has not been sent down to recover and investigate instead of the sub?
Found this with a quick search:
A deep dive nowadays could mean 100m plus. Divers have tools for deep diving now that can extend depth and time
or is it not possible to bring this wreckage up to the surface?

[cayuse365]

Maybe Agusta could learn something from Toyota about Customer Service and Safety.

[Dantruck]

Back in Post 22 it was reported that the Spanish coastguard had issued some sort of complaint because Almeria ATC (LEAM) had alerted them via the basic 911/999-type landline emergency telephone call, rather than by other means.
Cannot comment on the truth of that, but as a regular helicopter flyer in these parts I thought it worth stating for the record I, and others I know, have never found LEAM anything other than professional and helpful. I might also add that this rather small and, geographically speaking, quiet airport's controllers have rather better English language skills than many other parts of Spain I could mention. Indeed, on my last passage through their zone the man on duty went out of his way to be helpful.
Don't get me wrong. Spanish ATC ranges from some very professional IFR coverage to the joke of Europe where VFR, low-level , ie: rotary-wing, cover is concerned. Yet one must speak as one finds.
For what it's worth...
Still can't believe Sam...the co-pilot...is gone
Dan

[tottigol]

It seems there have been quite a few negative comments regarding INAER training procedures and consistency.
Is anyone in the know with regards to how many hours these flight crews actually fly every month, how are the shifts scheduled, do they use NVGs?
Also, what was the flight experience of the crew?

[verticalflight]

Hi Makrider,

I think that you’re overestimating the CIAIAC response time. Just to give you two examples:

EC-FJJ, Sikorsky S-61 accident (Inaer), Tenerife, one of the main rotor blades detached in flight after several warnings were ignored, 6 fatalities:
Accident: 08-Jul-2006
Preliminary Report: Mid 2007. http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/929C4EEB-480B-4981-B48E-88F481A7222B/27629/2006_007_A_INTERIM.pdf (English)
Final report: Awaiting

EC-HFP, McDonnell Douglas MD-82 accident (Spanair), Barajas Airport (Madrid), aircraft stalled during take-off, 154 fatalities:
Accident: 20-Aug-2008
Preliminary Report: 10-Oct-2008 http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/C58972BC-B96C-4E14-B047-71B89DD0173E/43303/PreliminaryReportA_032_2008.pdf (English)
Final report: Awaiting

So I guess that it will be a few months before we hear anything official re Helimer 207 accident.

No need to say that the Ministerio de Fomento is in charge of both ‘Dirección de Aviación Civil’ (Spanish CAA), and ‘SASEMAR’ (i.e. Spanish Coastguard), so no conflict of interests! ;););)

Furthermore, 66% of Inaer turnover comes from government agencies (including SASEMAR). (Refer to Grupo Inaer (http://www.grupoinaer.com/index.php?/inaer/inaerencifras) (English) ). So you can draw your own conclusions. :mad:


Sadly in the meantime SASEMAR AW139 operations are in ‘business as usual’. Other than a short note emailed by management acknowledging the accident, no preventive action has been taken, despite the fact that there are already a few hypothesis on the table. :=

[eggbeaterone]

Could stn 11020 be in the vicinity aft of the #1 rad alt antennas as in the Qatar ground accident last august?

[noooby]

eggbeaterone, no it is not. Station 11020 is way down the back of the tailboom, just in front of the IGB. STA11020 is the production join between the boom and the fin.

[makrider]

Hi verticalflight,

I'm with you, but in this case I think they could push for an Interim report.

The ICAO rules it's clear but as you know many times the rules have been made for nothings...

Mak :ok:

[patatas]

Helimer 207 Images

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[cayuse365]

What's going on in Almeria?

Have they found the other crew member and are they trying to raise the hull?

Did the ever retrieve the FDR?

[eivissa]

All three bodys have been recovered and the national accident investigation agency is in possesion of the FDR and CVR.

(According to them...) A preliminary accident report will be released in the next days.

[Flyting]

Has a statement not been taken from the survivor?

[verticalflight]

The survivor (Alberto Elvira) has reported:

1. They had finished the training sortie with the boat. Swimmer was back in his seat, strapped in. Door was close, and he was tidying up the cabin after the exercise.

2. There was no emergency or warning in the cockpit/cabin prior to the impact. All of a sudden he just found himself in the water, while the helicopter was underwater, going down.

Actual fact? Post-traumatic amnesia?

3. Then there was little he could do in terms of attempting to rescue anybody else in the sinking fuselage, so eventually he jumped into one raft that had deployed (during the impact?). Fired flares and awaited to be rescued. He had developed hypothermia by the time he was rescued.

Alberto was discharged from hospital on 24th Jan 2010

verticalflight

[cayuse365]

If Agusta has had the FDR for this long they should be able to tell the operators something. Their silence is deafening. It make me feel like they are hiding something.

[squib66]

cayuse take off your tin foil hat for a moment. The 'national authorities' are reported to have the CVR FDR not Agusta. Not everything is a conspiracy.

I recall an accident in the US were 2 months after the NTSB were still missing key evidence because they had washed it off the wreckage.

[noooby]

Manufacturers don't normally "get their hands on" data recorders. The investigating authority of the State of Registration (in this case) is responsible for getting the data read.
Normally (but not always) it will go to the closest laboratory that is set up to extract and analyse the data (P&G UK would be a good place to send it, after all, they made it!).
Agusta will have a representative on the investigation, if the local authority has asked for them to supply someone, but when it comes to FDR/CVR data, Agusta will have to wait just like the rest of us.
WHEN they get access to the data, then they can make any necessary decisions with respect to flight or maintenance procedures, if they need to.
IF anything needs to be said now, then they will say something.
IF there is no definitive cause staring them in the face, they will not say anything to prevent mindless pointless speculation, which does not help the investigation any.
"They" being the investigating authority, or Agusta.

[charlieDontSurf]

There are a few threads about lack of training and standards in Inaer, can you say a little more about that?

I'm quite interested in SAR-ops, and have had Inaer as one possible option, since we don't have civil SAR in Norway.

I have also visited Inaer's bases in Bilbao and Albacete during a ferry-flight of a AS 350 B3 they were going to dry-lease from my company, and I remember beeing impressed by the amount and level of training I saw at those bases. But that was VFR emergencies, I suppose the comments in this thread concerns IFR training and CRM-training?

Please explain what you mean by low standards.

[verticalflight]

Hi CharlieDontSurf,

The following are facts about INAER training and operation standards (SASEMAR / Coastguard contract).


Pilot initial training is completed at either AgustaWestland Training Academy or INAER TRTO. In both cases, pilots are issued with a Single Pilot Type Rating. No further Multi-Crew training is completed at a subsequent stage.

Although the initial (Single Pilot) type rating includes the IR, neither AgustaWestland nor INAER conduct the Instrument Flight section of the skill test in the aircraft under real or simulated IMC (no IF screens or hood). Therefore giving the mild weather of the locations, candidates are checked on their instrument flight skills while they can look out through the window in VMC. But they still receive a type rating that will allow them to fly a AW139 down on an ILS to minima.

Pilots or crewmen do not receive Helicopter Underwater Escape Training (HUET), despite the fact that SASEMAR contract calls for this to be in place. Could this training ahve made a difference in this accident?

Pilots do not receive MCC training in accordance to JAR-FCL2, hence no Multi crew type rating is in place.

Pilots do not receive CRM or SAR CRM training (management may argue that CRM training is completed during the initial SAR training, but read below and ask yourself whether that's feasible).

SAR initial training is limited to five to seven days of training. During these days, you spend a few hours in the crew room with a trainer that tends to be the Commander on-duty, thus his attention to the training tends to be limited. In terms of flight hours, you may complete 7 to 8 hours of training, during which they will try to cover all missions that the SAR service should be prepared for, day and night. After that, you will be on duty with any commander (no a line trainer or SAR instructor) at your new base. No additional training (base familiarisation or line training) is given other than the recurrent training (see below).

Monthly recurrent training is limited to 2.5 hours day and 2.5 hours night (flown with normal crew members, with no SAR instructors or line trainers). These training hours may be reduced if actual missions are completed. The average pilot logs around 90 flight hours per year.


Now I leave it up to you to decide whether that’s high or low standard. If you wish to find more about these facts, you can PM me.

Regards,


verticalflight

[spinwing]

Mmmmmm .....

Not sure I'm too impressed with the above ..... considering the tasking!


:eek:

[Dantruck]

Facts ...or opinion?

I've lost a friend, but I haven't lost my objectivity.

Dan

[Perrito Piloto]

Verticalflight is right.

Average annual flight hours are less than 90 hours per pilot.
NO MCC.
NO CRM.
NO proper SAR Course.
There are copilots with few hours (<500 flight hours) with no IR experience. Many captains have no experience on overwater operations.

[verticalflight]

Dantruck,

I'm deeply sorry for your loss. I would never use a sad situation like the present to ‘spin’ some rumours or unfounded information. These are facts that could be easily proven, by simply asking pilots about their ratings, the length of the training completed to date, and whether IF screens were used during IF training / checking or not.

I have refrained from commenting about the quality of the training, because that opens a can of worms that would distract us from the facts. If somebody is willing to go that route, then I could comment on that area as well.

The above list is just a few of the many problems that Inaer operations have. As ‘Perrito Piloto’ has done, I’m certain that other Spaniards in this forum could confirm my statement.

Why this hasn’t come up before? I personally (and now this is my personal opinion) believe that it is due to the very comfortable position that Inaer enjoys within the Spanish market. They have a monopoly of the helicopter industry in Spain, which works against both pilots and customers.

Pilots that in other operations / countries would not get any close to the machine due to the lack of training, SOPs, etc. have no option but to put up with the deficiencies of the system, do the job, get their pay cheque (SASEMAR pilots are relatively well paid), and go home.

Most of the pilots are extremely hard workers and have a big heart for the job (as most SAR pilots would), however they cannot develop their professionalism due to the above-mentioned problems.

Again, if you wish to know more about these problems, or if the moderator of this forums believes that giving the severity of this statements I should support my position with additional information, please PM me.


Best regards,


verticalflight

[Non-PC Plod]

According to the JAA definitions, if you are operating an aircraft (even one certified for single-crew operation) in a multi-crew operation, as defined by the ops manual or by national regulations, then it is de facto a multi-pilot helicopter, and you need a multi-pilot type rating.
Surely the operators knew this... why did the national authority inspectors not pick it up?

[verticalflight]

Non-PC Plod,

Anybody with experience in a well regulated environment would think as you do. I do. However in Spain the case is different.

The ‘Dirección de Aviación Civil’ has granted all sort of exemptions to the helicopter industry (you can read ‘Inaer’ if you wish, since they are ‘the Spanish Helicopter Industry’).

For instance, since 2003 operators are exempt from producing (and obviously using) a MEL. So pilots are only left with the MMEL which is useless since much of the equipment that you may have on board (specially on a SAR aircraft), is not mentioned. Pilots then rarely refer to this MMEL since it doesn’t give you any answer. They simply make up their mind on whether they’ll ‘go or not go’ based on their common sense. But nobody will dare to write a MEL that may say ‘no go’.

In terms of licensing, in mid 2009, some of the operations that Inaer have, including SASEMAR (Coastguard) were taken off the category of ‘Aerial Work’ to a category of ‘pseudo-government operation’. That move exempted all those operations from complying with JAR-OPS 3 and JAR-FCL 2. The other piece of legislation that Spain has, the ‘Reglamento de Circulación Aérea’ has little to do with this category as well. So, with this legal frame, operators are left to write their own rules.

So, to answer your question, the authority is indeed aware that the SASEMAR SAR AW139s are being flown by pilots with Single-Pilot type rating, with no CRM, no MCC, and some with no IR.

Furthermore, most of the commanders and SAR trainers of the SASEMAR operation only hold a CPL(H). Only a handful of them (I could count them with the fingers of one hand) have an ATPL(H).

Since JAR-OPS 3 doesn’t apply, there is no OM Part B, or Part E for the AW139. It is a fact that the SAR Manual does not mention the AW139 at all. So no SOPs for the aircraft, other than a few photocopies of some ‘guides and ideas’ left by the SAR trainer during his last visit 6 months ago. No SOPs, obviously you cannot train on MCC, neither you can run a Multi-Crew Type Rating course. It doesn’t matter… it’s not required by the authority.
In terms of HUET, obviously it is not a JAR requirement. However it is a SASEMAR requirement in the contract technical specifications, but everybody has turned a blind eye to this clause. Sadly, it may have been too late for some.

How can this happen? ‘Ministerio de Fomento’ is in charge of ‘Dirección de Aviación Civil’ and ‘SASEMAR’. And 66% of Inaer operations come from one customer: The government. (Please refer to the links in my previous post if you want to confirm this information). I leave up to you to draw your own conclusions.

The union is up in arms but they have very little negotiating power, pilots talk about this everyday in private, but in the outside world silence is deafening!

As usual, if you with to know more about this, please PM me.

Regards,


verticalflight

[Non-PC Plod]

Good Grief! Why arent the tabloid newspapers clamouring for government and regulator resignations? Is this all common knowledge in Spain?

[night dipper]

:eek: pretty horific what you are saying VF. I can see how they can work around jar-ops by calling it government work, but still.....
In Holland the military are obeying to a military version of jar-ops. Why? Because the people who thought of writing the jar-ops had really good reasons for it (safety for 1 of the primary reasons).

One can only hope that the crews who fly on the SASEMAR contract have sh*t lot's of xperience to fall back on to. 90 hours a year is by far not enough to build xperience in a demanding role as SAR!:uhoh:

regards ND

[Simfo]

reading this treads points the accident to a pilot or crew error, is there any news regarding the accident and what really happen ??

The crew could be very high skilled reg. hours, courses, previous flying/training etc. so isn't it to soon to say it's lack of skills/training.

[heliski22]

Good Grief! Why arent the tabloid newspapers clamouring for government and regulator resignations? Is this all common knowledge in Spain?

Probably because nobody has thought to explain it to them in a way they understand............

[verticalflight]

Here is the very limited and sketchy 'preliminary report' tha the CIAIAC has just released:


Date, place: 21-01-2010. South of Almería airport, in the sea.
Aircraft EC-KYR. Agusta AW-139
Aircraft damaged: Destroyed.
Operation type: Aerial work/commercial/government (search and rescue)
Phase: En route
Dead: 3 Injured:1

On January 21st 2010 helicopter AW139 EC-KYR, operated by INAER, took off from Almería airport at 17:11 UTC, to perform a SAR (Search And Rescue) maneuvers training flight. Pilot, copilot, hoist operator and rescue man were onboard. After finishing the training, crew asked for authorization and instructions to return to Almería airport. The crew read back the ATC instructions for returning to airport, without reporting any problem or declaring emergency. Some minutes later the helicopter fell down in the sea. The pilot, copilot and rescue man were killed in the impact and the hoist operator was seriously injured.

Wreckage of the helicopter has been recovered, as well as the digital flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder, with which the helicopter was equipped. The information contained in both recorders, data and communications, has been downloaded successfully in the facilities of AAIB, the English institution for air accidents investigation. The first inspections of the wreckage recovered, the data from the radar track and from the fight recorder indicate that the aircraft impacted against the sea while flying straight and stabilized, with a leveled attitude.

21-01-2010. EC-KYR. Agusta Westland AW-139. Proximidades del Aeropuerto de Almería - 2010 - Investigación - CIAIAC - Órganos Colegiados - Ministerio de Fomento (http://www.fomento.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/DIRECCIONES_GENERALES/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/INVESTIGACION/2010/002_2010.htm) (Spanish and English)


Crew experience?
Complete history of the flight?
Search and Rescue?
Weather?
Wreckage recovery?
Recorded data?
Engineering?
Safety actions?
Further investigation?

Sketchy indeeed. As a reference, an AAIB preliminary report will include this sort of information, in a 3 to 5-page-long document .

Compare this report with a typical AAIB report, for instance http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/S3-2009%20G-REDU.pdf (published two weeks after the accident)





verticalflight

[Thomas coupling]

Outrageous that a so called civilised country like Spain can cut through legislation at government level to get the job done:ugh:
Hopefully and surely the deceased estate lawyers will have access to data exposing this violation and sue the government for millions.
Under the surface, it seems this country is just another basket case:(

[tottigol]

These (Inaer) pilots are among the lowest paid in Europe.

[Non-PC Plod]

Thomas Coupling - Like you, I was amazed that they could get away with it. It just goes to show that although JAA purports to implement standards across the member countries, the reality lurking underneath the JAA umbrella is often very different from what you might expect.

[Maverick Laddie]

Non-PC Plod

Oh that level playing field again, Thats one subject that most "Pruners" would have some form of input to add,

If as Verticalflight states the wreckage has been recovered, anyone know if the tail boom was still attached,

Mav

[tottigol]

Maverick, you complained about the report then completely ignored it and missed this minor part:

The first inspections of the wreckage recovered, the data from the radar track and from the fight recorder indicate that the aircraft impacted against the sea while flying straight and stabilized, with a leveled attitude.

It is very very hard to fly straight and stabilized with a missing tail boom.

[S76Heavy]

It being an Italian-British manufactured machine, are the Italian and/or British authorities involved in the official investigation and if they are, will they have any (noticable) influence in the final report?

Mind you, we are still waiting for the JSAR final report if I am not mistaken. And that was an accident with no casualties and therefore many live witnesses..

[9Aplus]

the data from the radar track and from the fight recorder indicate that the aircraft impacted against the sea while flying straight and stabilized, with a leveled attitude.
:eek: that sentence can lead us to "conclude" about CFIT....
Late afternoon (dusk?!),
But two pilots,
(two) radar altimeters,
4 axis autopilot....
SW BUG?!

Amazing :ugh:

Why tail rotor blades remain in one piece than?

[eivissa]

The rad alts DH / aural warning is usually set to 40ft in Spanish SAR ops. Last ATC recorded ground speed was about 100kts...if the recorded data I posted is correct!

-> So if they where distracted (for whatever reason) and have started a descent, the rad alt warning might have come way to late to wake the crew up and let them react accordingly.

[Maverick Laddie]

Tottigol

Wasn't complaining about the report just reaffirming NON-PC Plod statement that since its formation EASA previously known as JAA have allowed there NAA to operate to different standards.

As for missing "the aircraft impacted against the sea while flying straight and stabilized with a leveled attitude". I didn't this statement just raises more questions.

Mav

[tottigol]

Sorry Mav we lost power in the middle of the message, my apologies if I misread your post.

9Aplus, I believe it was night time.

Were there any CAS Messages?
Did the FDR parameters indicate an intentional descent profile?
Were they coupled up?
Were they in landing configuration?
Were they both looking inside trying to figure out how to input data in the MCDUs?
Were the floats armed?
Were they going to shoot a full ILS on RWY26 or were they going to do a left downwind then land visually?

How much time for the crew:
In type, at night, in type at night, flying MCC, recent.

All of those questions except for one already have answers, and someone in the investigative team has already the picture together.

Time will tell for us.

For one, I hope that something good comes out of this tragedy.:(

[cayuse365]

I just got a msg. from a source at the HAI convention in Houston Texas. An Agusta accident investigator is saying that this is in fact a CFIT accident.

[tottigol]

Too early to say that Cayuse, any party involved in the investigation should not be in a position to just message someone and blab, unless they are directly involved in the investigation itself.
Whatever conclusion we draw so far are just ours based on the limited public information available.

[doorstopper]

A bit late to sign up for training dont you think!!

AgustaWestland and Grupo INAER sign MoU for training services | Shephard Group (http://www.shephard.co.uk/news/rotorhub-com/agustawestland-and-grupo-inaer-sign-mou-for-training-services/5647/)

[Maverick Laddie]

Do any pruners out there have any more information about this particular incident as there appears to be no final report published or have I missed something.

Mav

[212man]

there appears to be no final report published

It would be unusual to get a final report within 12 months or so, for this kind of accident.

[Dantruck]

By way of a small update...from our local English language newspaper.
'Sam,' as we knew him, was the co-pilot.

Mirador Named in Sam's Honour | Seaside Gazette (http://www.seasidegazette.es/2010/09/mirador-named-in-sams-honour/)

Mirador Named in Sam’s Honour
Friday, September 3, 2010
By Editor

Lentejí has named a mirador in honour of the New-Zealander helicopter pilot and village resident Kevin Holmes, who lost his life in an air accident in Almería, known simply as ‘Sam’ to the villagers, he became a loved member of the community in a short time, so much so that everybody was shocked and distraught at the news of his death on the 21st of January.

Now, seven months later, the Mirador (in the Molinillo area) at the top of the village bears a marble plaque in his honour.

“This is a special place for a special person,” said the Mayor upon unveiling the plaque with Sam’s widow, Vera, present.

-ends-

RIP mate
Dan

[verticalflight]

The 'Interim Report' for this accident has just been released.

http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/70DD0C48-1459-407A-9D9F-99D00819505A/97971/2010_002_A_Interim_statement.pdf

It's odd to notice that the CIAIAC have been fairly vague at the time of stating the crew training/qualifications, thus no comment has been made on:


The fact that both pilots had a 'Single Pilot' type rating (No MCC training)
None of the crew members were HUET trained.


However this information is crucial to understand what may have happened that night. Equally if this training had been in place, this accident may have never happened.

Reading between the lines one can work out that the commander had flown an average of 134 hours per year (335/2.5), or 11.2 hours per month. The copilot had flown 100 hours in the last year, or 8.33 hours per month. Any suggestions on whether this is enough or not for night SAR?

How much do other SAR operations fly per year round the world?


May they rest in peace.

[[email protected]]

It would seem their training was sufficient to complete the hard bit of the sortie ie the SAR training - but they managed to turn a simple transit back to base into an accident.

I am puzzled as to why they didn't have the height hold in - it maybe that the captain just wanted to fly the aircraft without all the automatics but you would expect him to monitor things far more carefully if that were so.

The number of ignored warnings that should have prompted recovery is rather worrying.

Very sad, RIP.

[212man]

Very sad, very shocking and amazing the winch-op survived!

[Epiphany]

This is the company who, when I asked to see the ops manual to check the 18 hour flight duty period they had given me for FDTL restrictions, told me that the manual was 'in Spain' and that if I had any questions I should 'call the CP and ask for clarification'. Needless to say he wasn't in.

The co-pilot that they sent to work with me was also not type rated! I was told that as it was a single pilot helicopter this was 'normal' - even though the customer required a two-crew operation.

My LPC with the company on this aircraft that I had not flown for 3 years was a 15 minute flight where the TRE got lost and we did no emergencies or OEI work.

I didn't stay long.

[Non-PC Plod]

Epiphany - very enlightening! It seems this company was an accident waiting to happen. It just goes to show that JAA/EASA does not necessarily mean a common standard applies throughout Europe. There are corners which still appear very third world in terms of safety standards.

[JimL]

SAR is outside the scope of the JAA/EASA.

Jim

[eivissa]

Is this because SAR is categorized as aerial work and therefore its not covered by JAR-OPS 3 and its regulations?

[JimL]

No, it is deliberately excluded on the basis that SAR differs substantially between States and it would be difficult to establish a single standard. (Any standard would have to be at the lowest common denominator or be riddled with exemptions.)

There are a number of reasons for this:

SAR is an activity that is usually undertaken by the military under ICAO State Aircraft designation and excluded from the Chicago convention - i.e. it does not have to meet SARPs - even when conducted by aircraft with a civil registration operating alongside the military.

Operations may be over water in one state but over an onshore hostile environment in another.

SAR may be provided primarily for military aircraft with civil aircraft as a secondary resonsibility.

Most States do not conduct this as an aerial work activity but have separate provisions (and in any case, ICAO does not have SARPs for Aerial Work).


Under these conditions, it is much more effective if the State takes responsibility for its own SAR activities. However States are expected (by ICAO and EASA) to provide a sound/safe basis for operations; under circumstances where SAR is conducted exclusively by a civilian operator, it would therefore be expected to meet the highest standard possible. This would probably include CRM, licensing provisions and an SMS (which stipulated compliance with established SOPs) for multi-crew operations.

Without prejudice to this accident; flights which are designated as multi-crew under operational regulations, have to meet the multi-crew provisions (irrespective of the basis for certification). (A well known example of this would be the requirement for two pilots when operating under IFR with more than 9 passengers.)

Jim

[sox6]

So what is the status of civil operated, privately funded SAR units (like Bond Jigsaw?) or mutual SAR (like Cougar in New Foundland)?

[Aser]

sox6 So what is the status of civil operated, privately funded SAR units (like Bond Jigsaw?) or mutual SAR (like Cougar in New Foundland)?



I hope it isn't the "legal limbo" we live here...

:sad:

[Aser]

Final report.
You can read and download it from here

Helimer 207-AW139 Crash in Spain 2010-Final report | Helimer (http://goo.gl/54x7v)

[aegir]

in this topic:
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/461593-aw139-accident-rate-discussion-7.html#post7495348
I'd put the direct link to Ministerio de Fomento web site:
http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/C6E653F5-E80D-42A8-9562-B8EB29B71E0F/113643/2010_002_A_ENG.pdf

[onesquaremetre]

Night flying over the sea on a calm, dark night with one display inoperative and every transition down to the hover done in manual without using the SAR modes. It's a wonder the sortie lasted as long as it did.

[Cleared-HOT]

Some interesting reading in the accident report :(

[[email protected]]

Will the winners of the son of SARH contract in the UK please take note, especially given the minimum hours and experience required for co-pilots in the DfT documents.

[Aser]

I can tell you we were lucky that we had only one accident, and I can tell you that because I was there from day one.

Sadly I even remember how before the accident, some of us were talking about something serious could happen.

Inaer is lowering the experience requirements again, they did that when introducing the aw139, releasing crews without experience in the machine, not enough total time or in the operation.

Now, after that dozens of pilots are going abroad in the last years Inaer is trying to find pilots desperately, even thinking they can find foreign 139 Spanish speaking pilots (a requirement to do SAR)

It's a horribly coincidence that I wrote an article about it, just before the report got out pointing the crew experience as one of the factors.

This is a link using google translator
Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.helimer.es%2Fcontent%2Finaer-desesperada-por-pilotos)

Regards and fly safe :(

[[email protected]]

Targatop - I would have thought my concern is obvious - a low-time co-pilot with minimal SAR experience in the LHS of a SAR helicopter.

Lack of exposure to a demanding environment, insufficient CRM training and a big cockpit gradient - add to that underuse of the helicopter's SAR programs and you have some holes in the swiss cheese beginning to line up.

The coup de grace is an experienced captain becoming fatigued and making errors of judgement (no height hold or briefed return to base height).

This is what happens when you try to do SAR on the cheap.