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airbond
18th Jan 2010, 22:35
Currently instructing TRI on the Boeing simulator, just wondering if any instructors bothers logging these sim instructing hours, maybe in a different section of there log book?

Is it worth counting them?

fireflybob
18th Jan 2010, 22:43
When I was Sim Instructor (TRE/IRE) a few years ago now, I logged all my sim instructional hours - there was a section in the back of my logbook where I put them down.

It's something extra to put on the c.v.!

Kirks gusset
18th Jan 2010, 23:10
Worth keeping a record in back of logbook, CAA may want to see this if you do a standards course for the TRE.

Brenoch
18th Jan 2010, 23:15
I've never bothered with putting it in my logbook as there is no section for it. As for records as far as the CAA is concerned my employer, when it comes to training, (OAA) keeps it on file until the day I perish. (possibly after that too)

PantLoad
19th Jan 2010, 00:51
The FAA requires that any instruction be recorded....as far as I know, 'how' this is done is not specified (i,e, in the instructors logbook, company training records, etc.). But, it is required that al this be recorded...each session, contents of each session, time for this, any endorsements, recommendations for checks....everything.

Having this, it would be logical for the instructor to record this. And, it's important to have detailed records....again, however they're kept....so, when the illustrious student makes a booboo, and the FAA comes to you, the instructor is asked questions, you have some documentation to answer those questions. If there's an accident, you can bet the FAA will ask a lot of detailed questions.


Fly safe,

PantLoad

Brenoch
19th Jan 2010, 16:41
I always interpreted that as being instruction in the actual airplane, (which I do, as PIC during base training) not the sim. Do you have to keep on file your classroom instruction, procedure trainers, CSS's and FBS's too? Where do you draw the line?

The FAA requires that any instruction be recorded....as far as I know, 'how' this is done is not specified (i,e, in the instructors logbook, company training records, etc.). But, it is required that al this be recorded...each session, contents of each session, time for this, any endorsements, recommendations for checks....everything.

This is all covered by the training files kept by the employer as they keep copies of the student files aswell.

68+iou1
19th Jan 2010, 17:28
Never have and would throw out a cv with sim instructor hours on it. The candidate would automatically fail the tosser test!

windscreen
19th Jan 2010, 21:40
Yes........you must log them, names plus the names of the trainees on conversion. I'ts a small world we inhabit, I was an IRE/TRE a decade or two ago, now retired twice but still trundle around the planet in the back and take huge pleasure when I get to meet the Guys and Gals from the sharp end, ESPECIALLY when they remember and remind me I signed their licensces all those years ago ............. and when I can I look e'm up in the old log book.............and remember. Also it's quite good for your C.V.

windscreen
19th Jan 2010, 21:47
Sorry All

That last sounds a bit crappy, probably had a glass too much and sitting here thinking about 707's VC10's and B.O.A.C and stuff, but still log your Sim. hours. When I left Big A. and joined another? they were very interested

Avenger
19th Jan 2010, 21:56
There is a section at the rear of the logbook for this, that's assuming your logbook is " Industry Standard" even the latest CAA issue one has the pages!
Record it for many reasons, most outlined above.
68+ I, your thinking does not reflect the current culture.

68+iou1
19th Jan 2010, 22:56
One of my TRI students asked the question years ago. A friend of a friend told him................ So I asked the CAA? The answer was no.
Have things changed? Maybe? Have you asked the CAA? If your answer is yes there has been a change. If not the tosser factor comes into play again!

AerocatS2A
20th Jan 2010, 00:45
Never have and would throw out a cv with sim instructor hours on it. The candidate would automatically fail the tosser test!
Presumably it would only be in the CV if they were applying for a sim instructor job in which case it would be highly relevant.

Brenoch
20th Jan 2010, 01:17
Rightly so, but would it include actual hours and not just years experience in training?

AerocatS2A
20th Jan 2010, 04:01
If it was me doing the hiring I think I'd want a bit more than years of experience. Not necessarily hours but at least an idea of just how much sim training you'd done. Is it 10 years experience doing one session every other month or were you a full time instructor doing five days/week in the sim?

68+iou1
20th Jan 2010, 08:48
Folks,
Donít assume (ASS U ME). Ask you regulatory authority? Donít make silly statements! Has there been a change since I asked?
And defiantly donít add it to your total hours!
And the tosser factor is?

fireflybob
20th Jan 2010, 09:23
And defiantly donít add it to your total hours!
And the tosser factor is?

68+iou1, I don't think anyone was implying that you "add it to your total hours" on a c.v. but if I was applying for a job I would record the fact that I had spent x hours/y years instructing in a simulator if this was relevant to the position being applied for. Please tell me why not?

The candidate would automatically fail the tosser test!

Mind you, not sure I'd want to work for an organisation which displays this sort of language or culture anyway.

PantLoad
20th Jan 2010, 09:34
Brenock is fundamentally correct.

Please refer to FAR 61.189.

However, FAR 141 probably will supersede the above, as will FAR 121.

In any case, records are mandated to be kept, either by the instructor, him(her)self, the flight school, the airline.

Fly safe,

PantLoad

68+iou1
20th Jan 2010, 10:28
Fireflybob and friends
I have asked the CAA. They said no. Ask your authority? If there has been a change great! Tell us all about it.
But donít ASS U + ME
Well done Paintload! You did some research, the FAA have a policy.

Basil
20th Jan 2010, 14:29
And defiantly donít add it to your total hours!
If I ever go for an interview I will try doing it defiantly - but only if I don't really want the job :}:ok:

and <<ASS U + ME>> ROTFL now

Avenger
20th Jan 2010, 14:31
If you are a TRI/E you should be up to date with Lasors and not sit here throwing insults about. Also, perhaps more attention to details required: Read The Original Post! There is a difference between " Bother" and " Require".. I doubt you are what you claim to be and the CAA would not say " NO" they simply direct you to the appropriate section in STD Doc or Lasors.. Tosser factor?

Three Good Reasons:

1) Lasors 2008 Section A appendix B

Synthetic Training Device (STD)
Particulars of any training session, test or examination
undertaken whilst in a STD shall be recorded in the
logbook, including, for each flight simulator, BITD or FNPT
session:
a. the date of the session, test or examination(d/m/y);
b. type and qualification number of training device;
c. synthetic training device instruction;
d. the capacity in which the holder acted;
e. the nature of the session, test or examination;
f. total time of session;
g. accumulated total time.
STD time is creditable towards courses and licence issue
but is not flight time and must not be recorded as such.
STD time must be logged separately from flight time
recorded in the logbook.

2) FTLs " Mixed Duties Simulator and Aircraft" CAP 371 Section 6 8.1 Both you and the company have a obligation to maintain records Section 17 Refers

3) Recording experience for TRE standards courses.

68+iou1
20th Jan 2010, 15:06
Thanks Avenger!
I have allot of work ahead of me I have +15 years of sim notes/reports in a box at home.
Sincerely! The point I was trying to get across, is that allot of people ask sincere questions on this site. Often answered by folk that shoot from the hip. And not from the manual or regs.
I was wrong!
Yes Iím old school. Loging sim instructor hours was frowned upon years ago.
Where do I stand in the tosser factor?
The older I get, the better I was!
:ouch:

Genghis the Engineer
20th Jan 2010, 15:12
Surely nobody should ever have frowned upon it, so long as the hours were kept separate.

Personally I have two separate sim columns in my logbook - sim training, and testing in research sims. Both relevant, neither added into my total flying hours column.

G

Desert185
24th Jan 2010, 03:00
Me, too. Always logged it and not added to total time.

airbond
25th Jan 2010, 21:10
In my logbook I have only 2 colums, labelled Instrument - in flight, and Instrument - ground.

Instrument - ground is when I am doing training in the simulator or being examined by someone, such as my OPC and LPC.

So I guess in my case, I would need to log these sim instructional hours, when I am teaching, in some section in the back of my logbook!

Where do others put these hours?