Kenn Borek working conditions, costs and training?

[Carrier]

Borek requires pilots to buy their own charts for Canada. Is this just VFR and IFR charts or do pilots also have to buy their own CFS and CAP? Must a pilot have these for the whole of Canada or can they cover only part of the country? What else must they buy? What does the average Borek pilot pay for these in a year?
In several decades of flying I have always had charts, etc, provided by my employers. There have been reasonable clothing allowances or provisions, some have provided headsets, and two (one military and one civil) provided parachutes. Accommodation away from base has always been provided at company expense. Do those who oppose pilots paying for type ratings and bonds have any opinion on pilots being forced to buy their own charts, etc?

Does a similar situation exist with Borek's company accommodation? Pilots working for some companies (eg Courtesy Air in Buffalo Narrows, SK) have to pay rent for company accommodation. Are Borek pilots charged rent when stationed away from Calgary and Edmonton? What is the Borek accommodation like? Courtesy's is good but some operators put pilots into squalid, filthy, ill maintained doss houses that indicate what the operator thinks of its employees!

Are there many married pilots at Borek? The rotation and/or randomly structured working lifestyle would seem to suit single people. If there are any married pilots at Borek do any stay there on a permanent basis and does working at Borek have any effect on their marriages?

What is Borek's training like? Most 703/704 operators "train to the minimum" to get someone through a PPC or PCC They will not provide the necessary training to ensure that a pilot is fully competent. Where does Borek stand on this?

[Pilot DAR]

Fortunately, for the purpose of answering this post, I claim to have no knowledge of Borek's operation. Thus I will express no opinion, other than it seems Borek has conducted effective, and sometime amazing business in worldwide avaition for a long time. A record to be proud of...

It does seem to me though, that carrier is trying to elicit information to fulfill negative assumtions about the company. Honestly, if you have that many concerns about how an established operator conducts their business, why bother to ask at all? It does not seem that a pleasant relationship with this company is what you're looking for in the first place!

Just let them go their way, and you go yours...

[Lost Lake]

Wow, weird questions carrier. Ken Borek is a facinating company. Where else can you fly twin otters all over the world. If your interested in their king air side, I have no knowledge or care. They are not a flight school, so they don't train. You do a class room and then 5 hr practice and PPC ride. If you need more training, try a flight school.

[takeoffpowerset]

Are they hiring by any chance ???

[Heli-Ice]

Isn't it ok to ask questions about a company like these that Carrier did?

[bobrun]

They are not a flight school, so they don't train

Wow, what a statement! I've worked with several airlines and I have never met a professional pilot who did not regularly need recurrent training to remain proficient and updated with changing procedures and best practices. Training is simply an essential part of a safe airline.

[Lost Lake]

There is a huge difference in being trained to fly the airplane and recurrent training. I think the original poster, if not a troll, hasn't got much experience and expects them to teach him how to fly their aircraft. Canada has enough unemployed pilots around with experience that they do not have to train pilots. Recurrency is another topic.

[J.O.]

It always makes me wonder when people refuse to answer legitimate questions about the working conditions of any potential employer. Could it be that they are embarrassed to admit what they were willing to accept in exchange for a job?

This is supposed to be a forum to discuss industry issues, including working conditions. Why jump on the OP's back when they just asked a few questions?

BTW, the old argument that his tone was wrong doesn't wash. Tone is really hard to discern on an internet forum.

[Pilot DAR]

Hmmm,

I have considered the opinions of those who posted following my post, and really, all that considered, I'd write the same post again!

Perhaps Carrier was being sincere, in which case that person would benefit from at least my opinion that the "tone" I perceived from his/her post would probably not be a great starting point when asking for job.

Perhaps Carrier has other motives, that person now knows that I am being cautious to not be sucked in to some downward spiral of negativity against an experienced Canadian company (or any nation for that matter).

Terms like "squalid" and "filthy", and "will not provide the necessary training" are going to put the person on the receiving end on the defensive right away, and that will not create a good foundation for employment dicsussions.

I also notice that Carrier has not returned to clarify their position. Perhaps if they realized they have written something which "popped up a red flag" they would have offered clarification. It seems not. That also makes me slightly suspicious of the underlying motives of the original post.

Yes, this is a forum for exchanging this type of information, but it does not mean that it won't get someone else's ire up, and they too have a right to say so.

I reiterate that I claim no affiliation with Borek, or it's staff, in any way.

[justcurious]

I may be of some help here. Easier to cut and paste:

Does a similar situation exist with Borek's company accommodation? Pilots working for some companies (eg Courtesy Air in Buffalo Narrows, SK) have to pay rent for company accommodation. Are Borek pilots charged rent when stationed away from Calgary and Edmonton? What is the Borek accommodation like? Courtesy's is good but some operators put pilots into squalid, filthy, ill maintained doss houses that indicate what the operator thinks of its employees!

Pilots on rotation are provided accommodation. Inuvik has accomodation in 6 houses for staff. Single rooms. No Rent. Didn't seem particularly squalid on the weekend

Are there many married pilots at Borek? The rotation and/or randomly structured working lifestyle would seem to suit single people. If there are any married pilots at Borek do any stay there on a permanent basis and does working at Borek have any effect on their marriages?


Yes, and I'm one of them. I've been here 20 years. Same job, same wife.If a relationship is going to fail, proximity will not greatly help. For a great many of our married pilots, rotation permits them to live closer to family and friends, or live in parts of the country more hospitable for raising families. Borek's main effect on my marriage is that I can afford to be married. If my wife ceased to be interested in her career, I could afford to have her stop work.

What is Borek's training like? Most 703/704 operators "train to the minimum" to get someone through a PPC or PCC They will not provide the necessary training to ensure that a pilot is fully competent. Where does Borek stand on this?

While I admit to a bit of bias here, Borek started to think more like a 705 operator several years ago. While we would hope that new hires could reach proficiency in the requisite training time, this is not always the case. Where a new hire has not previously been exposed to the myriad ground training items, as well as 704 requirements for: firefighting, first aid, whimis ,TDG, CRM,CFIT, unruly passengers, & SMS; trying to absorb the aircraft systems, limitations and SOPs must seem like drinking from a fire hose. For the last decade, the company's groundschools have become more sophisticated in content, delivery method, and course materials.

Once the initial cash has spent on a new hire, the candidate is rarely washed out. I can recall only a handful in the past 2 decades.

Where failures occur, they are often found in recurrent FO's, who become complacent over a year's operational flying. While we encourage training captains to call the CP and advise him before recommending an ill-prepared candidate, sometimes nerves, complacency, or a misalignment of the galaxy causes a candidate to fail. Once an analysis of the perceived root cause is completed, remedial training to standard is completed, and another ride is completed. Given 230 pilots in the company, with many PPC'ed on 2 types, our PPC ride failure rate is very close to the national 704 average. With 10 check pilots, there is enough mix in the ride scenarios and check pilots to provide a valid assessment of a candidate's skill.

Training on the aircraft is generally given by training captains with significant time on type,versus the 100 on type requirement of TC.Increasingly, client companies are requiring simulator training, and a monitor of actual training.

While my time is devoted significantly to training, and checking, (perhaps 20% of my annual time), the gain in revenue is slight as the salary and compensation is set to pay a daily rate for on duty time, in addition to a base pay. Thus I have no reason to grind out someone's training at the end of a long day, or a day of unsuitable weather.

For Borek, as for most companies of this size, the days of new pilots arriving monday and starting on the line tuesday are long past. Fourteen days from sitting down to fill in the hiring paperwork to starting line indoctrination seems nearer the mark.

It always makes me wonder when people refuse to answer legitimate questions about the working conditions of any potential employer. Could it be that they are embarrassed to admit what they were willing to accept in exchange for a job?

The lack of response, both from Carrier and people in a position to voice a legitimate opinion is more the result of a matching post on a different forum, rather than malice or embarrassment. As a general rule, I find that legitimate questions about a company deserve a measured honest response. I hope this helps.

JC

[J.O.]

Now that's what this forum was intended to be. A place to get a measured honest response from someone who knows first hand. No emotion, no vitriol. And based on your answers, I'd say you work for a pretty decent outfit, with nothing to be embarrassed about. This could have been a two post thread if it had gone this way in the first place. :hmm:

[Heli-Ice]

justcurious

Thank you for your post, very informative :ok: